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A friendly heads up from a SISI Junky...

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Eleneor	Posted - 2008.10.21 11:58:00 - [31] Edited by: Eleneor on 21/10/2008 11:58:32 Originally by: ceveres what about stealth bombers..is this going to make them useless.(cruise). are being rebalanced to cause less damage to player's cruisers/frigs From what I understand, damage reduction on missiles due to speed will be changed to compare a sig radius / speed ratio vs the missiles explosion radius / explosion velocity ratio, rather than the current speed vs explosion velocity. This could mean a significant buff to stelth bombers (with their exp radius bonus) vs MWDing (large sig radius) frigs.
Granmethedon III RuffRyders Eradication Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.21 11:59:00 - [32] Originally by: Bellum Eternus If you fit a short ranged scram then you can counter your attacker's MWD and counterweb him while moving back to the gate, or away from your attacker, allowing you to escape. To what, sit there and die because of aggro timer?
Nova Fox Gallente Novafox Shipyards	Posted - 2008.10.21 12:06:00 - [33] you forgot to mention ships using ABs take far less damage from missiles than those using MWDs. Pre Order your Sisters of Eve ship today!!!
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2008.10.21 12:09:00 - [34] Originally by: Granmethedon III Originally by: Bellum Eternus If you fit a short ranged scram then you can counter your attacker's MWD and counterweb him while moving back to the gate, or away from your attacker, allowing you to escape. To what, sit there and die because of aggro timer? There are plenty of times where I'm killing a target, generally a BS, where if they were able to make it back into jump range, they could de-aggro and jump out. The combination of T2 scrams, reduced web strength and afterburners will allow you to do just that, quite easily I might add. Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y COLLECTION Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2008.10.21 12:09:00 - [35] Originally by: Nova Fox you forgot to mention ships using ABs take far less damage from missiles than those using MWDs. You're right, and I'll update my OP. Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y COLLECTION Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Granmethedon III RuffRyders Eradication Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.21 12:14:00 - [36] Originally by: Bellum Eternus Originally by: Granmethedon III Originally by: Bellum Eternus If you fit a short ranged scram then you can counter your attacker's MWD and counterweb him while moving back to the gate, or away from your attacker, allowing you to escape. To what, sit there and die because of aggro timer? There are plenty of times where I'm killing a target, generally a BS, where if they were able to make it back into jump range, they could de-aggro and jump out. The combination of T2 scrams, reduced web strength and afterburners will allow you to do just that, quite easily I might add. True, true.
Cpt Branko Surge.	Posted - 2008.10.21 12:30:00 - [37] As for your battlecruiser comment, Bellum, you're forgetting two things: (a) BCs will have issues killing some AFs. You will have to keep frigate defense in mind when fitting... as a well tanked AF could potentially tank/remove your drone DPS, and hitting it with guns except on approach is a no-go. I am seriously considering a medium neutralizer to deal with this problem on my fits. (b) BCs will have to fit scramblers. Their speed got somewhat reduced (by circa 10% largely), and with the web nerf, the only way to actually hold a cruiser-sized target (particularly a scram fitted one) so it can't just MWD off is to fit a scrambler. This will significantly nerf their ability to successfully tackle targets (you have to land within 10.8km +- 3/4km to successfully tackle a target). Short range BCs must fit scramblers to not die in combat. (c) BCs relying on HAMs have taken a big hit in their ability to damage cruiser hulls, as they now have a significant flat out damage reduction because of a HAM exp radius nerf which is not counteracted by the explosion radius skill (which does not apply for HAMs).
Khorin D'tael Caldari D'tael Contracts	Posted - 2008.10.21 12:37:00 - [38] Originally by: FlameGlow Originally by: Shaemell Buttleson Just one question. Why have Torps and Cruise been changed with reduced effect against the smaller ships? The reason I ask is the fact they were never buffed to deal with the smaller or faster ships anyway. Well it was because they pwnd everything once the ships were slowed down. CCP changed missile damage formula completely btw, making it possible to hit for full damage even targets faster then explosion velocity(if their signature is big enough); plus it never really becomes 0(unless missile doesn't even hit) I think you will find you are completely wrong there. Missiles were nerfed especially torps years ago so they wouldn't hurt smaller faster ships. The only way you could hurt them badly was if they were standing still or having next to no velocity and using the mwd at the same time. A case in point is stealth bombers. If an inti went anything over 6km even with the built in precision bonus, using a painter and having maxed skills you would be lucky to even hit it for 20 hp! Torps ofc are an entirely different matter and even worse off. Now I'm not a missile user so I'm not complaining but CCP certainly did not change the damage formula to make it possible to hit for full damage smaller targets with or without a the explosion velocity modifier.
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2008.10.21 12:43:00 - [39] Originally by: Cpt Branko As for your battlecruiser comment, Bellum, you're forgetting two things: (a) BCs will have issues killing some AFs. You will have to keep frigate defense in mind when fitting... as a well tanked AF could potentially tank/remove your drone DPS, and hitting it with guns except on approach is a no-go. I am seriously considering a medium neutralizer to deal with this problem on my fits. (b) BCs will have to fit scramblers. Their speed got somewhat reduced (by circa 10% largely), and with the web nerf, the only way to actually hold a cruiser-sized target (particularly a scram fitted one) so it can't just MWD off is to fit a scrambler. This will significantly nerf their ability to successfully tackle targets (you have to land within 10.8km +- 3/4km to successfully tackle a target). Short range BCs must fit scramblers to not die in combat. (c) BCs relying on HAMs have taken a big hit in their ability to damage cruiser hulls, as they now have a significant flat out damage reduction because of a HAM exp radius nerf which is not counteracted by the explosion radius skill (which does not apply for HAMs). While I was being as general as possible, I agree with your observations. Two medium neuts and 425 IIs on a Hurricane is pretty vicious to smallish ships, but my main point was that BCs enjoy the middle ground of potentially being able to beat up on smaller ships while avoiding DPS from BS and still having a fairly high damage output. All ships will have issues holding down a target. I think it will be very interesting to see how things play out on TQ when it goes live: if people actually fit ABs, just how prolific T2 scrams become, how many people insist on dual webs vs. a web and scram etc.. I see all the five mid armor tanking ships becoming very popular, if for no other reason than they can fit an additional web or 2pt scram: Tempest, Hyperion, Myrmidon, Ishtar. Interdictors will be extremely popular, as they have a few mids to spare for additional tackle mods. The Sacrilege has it's 4th mid available as well, as does the Arbitrator, Curse, Pilgrim etc. HAMs are indeed the redheaded stepchild at the moment when it comes to missile damage. It also remains to be seen how the Nighthawk fairs with it's missile precision bonus in comparison to the Drake and Cerberus, which might work better in the anti-support role than the expensive Nighthawk. Again, good observations on your part, but I was just trying to get the broad strokes down in the OP. Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y COLLECTION Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Tippia Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.10.21 12:50:00 - [40] Originally by: Bellum Eternus I see all the five mid armor tanking ships becoming very popular, if for no other reason than they can fit an additional web or 2pt scram: Tempest, Hyperion, Myrmidon, Ishtar. Interdictors will be extremely popular, as they have a few mids to spare for additional tackle mods. The Sacrilege has it's 4th mid available as well, as does the Arbitrator, Curse, Pilgrim etc. Yay! Battle-Badgers!! Oh wait, armour tankers… Bah! Humbug!
murder one Gallente Invincible Reason	Posted - 2008.10.21 12:56:00 - [41] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Bellum Eternus I see all the five mid armor tanking ships becoming very popular, if for no other reason than they can fit an additional web or 2pt scram: Tempest, Hyperion, Myrmidon, Ishtar. Interdictors will be extremely popular, as they have a few mids to spare for additional tackle mods. The Sacrilege has it's 4th mid available as well, as does the Arbitrator, Curse, Pilgrim etc. Yay! Battle-Badgers!! Oh wait, armour tankersà Bah! Humbug! I armor tanked my Battle Badger and my Combat Viator, as well as my Combat Crane - dual small T2 armor reps ftw. [07:13:55] doctorstupid2 > what do i train now? [07:14:05] Trista Rotnor > little boys to 2 Fleet Combat Ships
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.10.21 13:29:00 - [42] See, I knew I had a good reason NOT to specialize in battleships but go with smaller ship classes instead. After nearly 2 years, vengeance is finally mine, mwahaaha ! _ VOTE YES TO SKILL QUEUE NOW !!! \|\| Mission reward revamp \|\| better nanofix
Siigari Kitawa Gallente The Aduro Protocol	Posted - 2008.10.21 13:45:00 - [43] Originally by: Akita T See, I knew I had a good reason NOT to specialize in battleships but go with smaller ship classes instead. After nearly 2 years, vengeance is finally mine, mwahaaha ! Yet all it will still take is just one heavy neut to ruin your day. www.siigarikitawa.com
Tippia Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.10.21 13:54:00 - [44] Originally by: Akita T See, I knew I had a good reason NOT to specialize in battleships but go with smaller ship classes instead. After nearly 2 years, vengeance is finally mine, mwahaaha ! People tell me I'm nuts for doing the same… …and they may be right about the “nuts” part but that's for completely unrelated reasons.
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2008.10.21 14:03:00 - [45] Edited by: Andrue on 21/10/2008 14:05:53 Edited by: Andrue on 21/10/2008 14:03:59 Originally by: Bellum Eternus Edited by: Bellum Eternus on 21/10/2008 10:15:39 The reign of the Raven as the defacto PVE ship in Eve may be coming to an end. Because cruise missiles and torps will be reduced in effectiveness vs. cruisers and frigs, Ravens may have a harder time burning through missions than they do now. I'm not a mission running expert with respect to Ravens, but I'd be very interested to hear from someone who is, who has tested their mission running setups on SISI to see how well Ravens perform. If that does pan out then it's a further boost for the Nighthawk. It already outclasses a standard Raven for most PvE. It might even make the NH the number one mission ship but that will depend on the painting ability of the Golem and how HMs fair in all this. Edit:Will be interesting to see how the changes affect the Drake v. Nighthawk comparison. -- (Sarcastic mission running veteran, 4+ years) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
Hugh Ruka Exploratio et Industria Morispatia	Posted - 2008.10.21 14:13:00 - [46] Originally by: Siigari Kitawa Originally by: Akita T See, I knew I had a good reason NOT to specialize in battleships but go with smaller ship classes instead. After nearly 2 years, vengeance is finally mine, mwahaaha ! Yet all it will still take is just one heavy neut to ruin your day. so Sentinels will be the most effective combat frigs ... good neut/nos range, drones for DPS, speed ... ok maybe lacks a bit of tank ... --- SIG --- CSM: your support is needed !
Cpt Branko Surge.	Posted - 2008.10.21 14:24:00 - [47] Originally by: Akita T See, I knew I had a good reason NOT to specialize in battleships but go with smaller ship classes instead. After nearly 2 years, vengeance is finally mine, mwahaaha ! I'm tempted to fit out a 2x heavy neut, 2x medium neut Typhoon just to ruin the dreams of HAC/frig/whatever smaller junk pilots Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2008.10.21 14:44:00 - [48] Originally by: Hugh Ruka Originally by: Siigari Kitawa Originally by: Akita T See, I knew I had a good reason NOT to specialize in battleships but go with smaller ship classes instead. After nearly 2 years, vengeance is finally mine, mwahaaha ! Yet all it will still take is just one heavy neut to ruin your day. so Sentinels will be the most effective combat frigs ... good neut/nos range, drones for DPS, speed ... ok maybe lacks a bit of tank ... Mine doesn't tank too bad... TS small rep, TS EANM, 100mm RT plate, slaves, all resist specs to 5... Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y COLLECTION Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Waah	Posted - 2008.10.21 15:13:00 - [49] Looks like I picked a bad time to resubscribe because ship movement is already glacially slow as it is for BSs and if it gets slower still I just won't be able to take it. Maybe Jumpgate Evolution will realize that people don't want to be pillboxes.
Khandara Seraphim StarHunt Fallout Project	Posted - 2008.10.21 15:28:00 - [50] Is curse ruined? Every curse on TQ now is speed fit so I'm curious what will happen to it.
Hayman Wakefield Caldari Trans-Stellar Salvage Shipping and Securities Ethikos Trade Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.21 15:29:00 - [51] Also look at this all as a stealth buff for Minnie EW, target painters are going to become very common on pve missile ships, and I would suspect for any gang using missiles in pvp. I've been using a golem for testing and with the TP bonus the cruises are still effective, I can't use t2 torps on sisi atm so can't comment. Roaming ABing & TPing Sac gangs anyone? I agree more Nighthawks will see pve duty due to the precision bonus and heavy duty passive tanks. Long live the BC hulls! Originally by: Capt Harlock "I have a mouse with a green tail". It's tail may or may not be green. The car however is mating with a monkey".
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.10.21 15:52:00 - [52] Originally by: Siigari Kitawa Originally by: Akita T See, I knew I had a good reason NOT to specialize in battleships but go with smaller ship classes instead. After nearly 2 years, vengeance is finally mine, mwahaaha ! Yet all it will still take is just one heavy neut to ruin your day. cough Drake cough full passive cough Nighthawk cough Damned this coughing I suddendly seem to have developed... _ VOTE YES TO SKILL QUEUE NOW !!! \|\| Mission reward revamp \|\| better nanofix
Letifer Deus A Astroid Belt Lotto Syndicate	Posted - 2008.10.21 16:31:00 - [53] /emote slowly and mournfully polishes his shotgun to put his Megathron, Astarte and Deimos out of their misery post patch. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!"
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.10.21 16:35:00 - [54] Originally by: Letifer Deus /emote slowly and mournfully polishes his shotgun to put his Megathron, Astarte and Deimos out of their misery post patch. You're awfully late on the Deimos, it's been kind of dead for a couple of years, brought back to life for a brief stint only to join the underworld again... _ VOTE YES TO SKILL QUEUE NOW !!! \|\| Mission reward revamp \|\| better nanofix
Verx Interis Amarr Aurora Security Sc0rched Earth	Posted - 2008.10.21 16:47:00 - [55] I'm an Amarr pilot. How is this going to affect me? I can fly Khanid ships by the way. --------- Your bad loan management perfectly strikes the stock market, wrecking for -777.68 points. Eve job list
Daitetsu Minase	Posted - 2008.10.21 17:06:00 - [56] Does this my hurricane is going to be the new sexiness? Should I be tossing neuts on it? Also... is artillery going to actually have a role in PVP now, instead of everyone racing to get to knife-fight distance with autocannons, blasters, and whatnot? These are all important-ish questions for me as I consider what to train for next. (Looks like heavy assault ships may get put on the back burner for ever, since I'm a minmatar player.)
Sgt Napalm Synergy Evolved	Posted - 2008.10.21 17:12:00 - [57] Blasters are dead. You forgot that.
Stab Wounds Caldari State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.10.21 17:19:00 - [58] Originally by: Sgt Napalm Blasters are dead. You forgot that. Blasters will be fine if not better post-patch.
Tzar'rim	Posted - 2008.10.21 17:23:00 - [59] Originally by: Daitetsu Minase Does this my hurricane is going to be the new sexiness? Should I be tossing neuts on it? Also... is artillery going to actually have a role in PVP now, instead of everyone racing to get to knife-fight distance with autocannons, blasters, and whatnot? These are all important-ish questions for me as I consider what to train for next. (Looks like heavy assault ships may get put on the back burner for ever, since I'm a minmatar player.) I always fit neuts to my Cane, not sure on arties though.
Malcanis RuffRyders Eradication Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.21 17:31:00 - [60] Originally by: Letifer Deus /emote slowly and mournfully polishes his shotgun to put his Megathron, Astarte and Deimos out of their misery post patch. Nah, rename them all "Old yellow" and leeroy them the day before patch.

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