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Perry
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Posted - 2004.06.29 19:54:00 -
[1]
I`ll keep it simple:
Currently Cruisers are zipping around faster then Interceptors because its easy to eqip even two 100mn Afterburners on Cruisers. This leaves enough grid to fit small turrets or launchers which are superior to medium turrets in many aspects. The victim of such a smart but also lame tactic can not do much, missles are too slow, anticruiser-turrets dont track, and it feels like being cheated by some *****-733t, perhaps you know what i mean.
btw no i was NOT raped by this tactic, im just a bit dissappointed that this is not only the most unrealistic but also the most effective setup. All Medium Turrets are useless now, because frigate turrets rule and battleship turrets will be beefed up.
I also think that this is not the way eve should be played, zipping around at 25km/s being invulnerable and smashing equal but realistic fitted opponents with small weapons. Perhaps its just me, but i feel like being fooled when i fit 5 medium turrets on a maller and use 95% of my recources for weapons, and someone else just uses 5% for small turrets and outdamages me...
Many of you use this tactic, so i expect 99% flames, but you could prove me wrong by giving constructive critic or agreement.
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X'Alor
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Posted - 2004.06.29 20:13:00 -
[2]
Hmm. didn't think about that.
Moa once again, 10% range bonus to hybrid. So you can make your small compressed coil 150's hit at decent medium range with lvl 4 cruiser.
Not to mention more ammo storage, with a barage of heavy missles backing up the coils......
Going to play with moa set ups now.
thanks for the pointers perry
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Del Narveux
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Posted - 2004.06.29 20:18:00 -
[3]
1st flame 
Okay, seriously though, I do disagree with nerfing it for a couple of reasons. First, yes cruiser guns suck, but IMO thats more an indication that they need to be beefed than to nerf a bunch of other stuff. Im a missle maniac myself, had to switch to a bbird when they took heavies off kestrel, and I was stunned at just how ineffective my guns are. My missles do waay more damage than my guns...clearly, guns need to be beefed to meet or even exceed the DoT of my scourge spam. Second, its a viable tactic, yes you can do it but you give up a lot of capability in the process. I much prefer that speed demons use a big AB than an MWD, as I dont think MWD was meant to be an AB on steroids. In fact, Id go so far as to say we need new AB sizes, in between the current ones to further encourage people to use those rather than just MWD it.
_________________
[SAK] And Proud Of It!
aka Cpt Bogus
Is that my torped sig cloaking your base? |
Bella Verde
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Posted - 2004.06.29 20:35:00 -
[4]
Yes, since the whole point of the mwd nerf was to make it not neccesary to have a mwd to survive. Now people are fitting the large afterburners to get insane speed with no drawbacks.
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Gaijin Lanis
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Posted - 2004.06.29 20:42:00 -
[5]
They already are "nerfed." They're less effective than MWDs, require 500grid each, require the training of a specialized skill to level 5 to bring their energy use within reason and they're only viable on cruisers... How much more nerfing do you want?
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Pandora Panda
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Posted - 2004.06.29 21:02:00 -
[6]
No. Frigates must have speed to live, and a MWD will now get you killed.
Should drones get fixed, and battleship-sized missiles be prevented from having any chance of hitting a frigate, then I would not oppose a change to eliminate upsized afterburners. Now they already eat massive grid for the ships that they are on. Most frigates cant even fit a single 10mn AB alone, much less other mods and weapons.
As a side note - buy a damn webber. If someone spends 2 midslots and 1000mw grid to outrun you, I dont think its unreasonable that the counter uses 2 midslots and 10 grid.
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CONCORD: Kneecapping Pilots for Misdemeanors Since 2003 |
Pandora Panda
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Posted - 2004.06.30 00:01:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Pandora Panda on 30/06/2004 00:03:08
 Originally by: Sally
Fix this bull**** ASAP.
IMHO it's exploiting of the game mechanics.
Moving so fast in a cruiser at no expense is just plain bull****.
I am sure that the devs oversaw this while redesigning the MWD.
Then introduce an 'improved' MWD thats the same as a normal MWD, just sans the Sig Radius boost. Give it double the grid of a normal MWD, and all will be good.
Alternatively, make that the MWD II niche. I'd like to see tech2 stuff that was more than just 25% better in terms of numbers, but physically different.
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CONCORD: Kneecapping Pilots for Misdemeanors Since 2003 |
Gaijin Lanis
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Posted - 2004.06.30 00:11:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Sally
Moving so fast in a cruiser at no expense is just plain bull****
1000 grid is no expense....
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Jeswyn
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Posted - 2004.06.30 01:11:00 -
[9]
wth... ?
No Way!
Sorry, but the powergrid expenses are more than enough of a tradeoff.
If you fit 2x 100MN ABs + small turrets on a cruiser you're going to get shredded by any cruiser/BS or even heavy frigate that had the brains to fit a webifier.
For two 100MN afterburners you sacrifice 1000MW of your powergrid and 2 med slots. Most of the fast cruiser don't even have that much PG to play with. Besides, that kind of setup would only be viable as a frigate killer, and only if the frig pilot was half asleep or not paying attention.
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Sally
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Posted - 2004.06.30 01:20:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Gaijin Lanis
Originally by: Sally
Moving so fast in a cruiser at no expense is just plain bull****
1000 grid is no expense....
Of course it is not. Since nothing can hit you. But you can still utilize weapons. It is not a real drawback.
Try to do something like this with a double MWD.
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Stories: #1
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John Itty
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Posted - 2004.06.30 01:56:00 -
[11]
Quote:
Now people are fitting the large afterburners to get insane speed with no drawbacks
edit: flaming removed - Sherkaner
There is no problem with 'Upsizing' imho, Large smart bombs on thorax's, Heavy launchers on tristans (thankgod for the torp nurf) 10mn abs on frigs & 100mn abs on cruiser. They are all just a gimick, you sacrifice HUGE amounts of cpu & grid, and i really dont think the bonus is anything to make a fuss about.
If you want a nurf, put forward relevant pionts, dont just make up stuff.
Quote:
im just a bit dissappointed that this is not only the most unrealistic but also the most effective setup.
Perry, I am willing to put up a 10mil prize just for you, if you can beat me in any cruiser of your chioce, your cruiser with upsized mods, and me in a standard loadout for pvp.
im really confused about this statement
Quote:
All Medium Turrets are useless now, because frigate turrets rule
yes a modal light Neutron on a gallente frig with bonus's + dmg mods will do over 200dmg wrecking hits, but you loose the ship dmg bonus for small weapons on cruisers, and to upsize cruisers mods most people use Reacter controls in the low slots.
i dont like you post at all, your such a whiner |
DJTheBaron
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Posted - 2004.06.30 02:44:00 -
[12]
i piliot a crow using named tech 2 10mn ab's or named 10mn's
i do this because i have the skills i trained for this, and because using a mwd on a caldari ship with its strength being its sheild hit points, plus cap penalty, plus sig radius penalty is just too much for me to bear, and even with a tech 2 10mn i still cant go as fast as a 1mn mwd
cruisers are humbled by using 100mn ab more than frigates are for using 10's since it appears to me aux power cores on frigates are designed to help you double your grid, wheras cruisers get stuck using small weapons and such so it seems a comprimise
i wouldnt be apposed to a neft on using multiple mwd or multiple oversized ab simply because its all but impossible to counter that setup unless you have that speed yourself and i find it painful when duel miced ravens overtake my single miced rifter or i have to warp away every time a duel drived rupture eventually catches up to my interceptor
for caldari the sheild penalty of mwd is excessive since we loose a hot of hitpoints compared to those with high amrour and structure as their increased hitpoints, which is one of the things that makes sheild tanking so hard compared to armour tanking as there is no penalty for that
so currently frigates are able to single overburn their drive systems with little expence when the skills are right, the same with cruisers, but cruiser double overburning their drives are being forced to reduce their armourments so i see no reason why cruisers cant sheild/armour boost and tank them or alternativley pop drones when not near a gate and kil them or not go hostile on them and simply jump the gate if theyre near one
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Scum, your all scum. |
ActiveX
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Posted - 2004.06.30 03:27:00 -
[13]
I agree with this. However, only on the condition that frigates' base speeds increased by at least 50%.
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Sex / Rank 9 / SP: 1280 of 2304000 
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Bella Verde
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Posted - 2004.06.30 03:27:00 -
[14]
You can survive very well now with tracking in a frigate without afterburners or microwarpdrives. Thus, you dont NEED extreme 2km/s speeds to live anymore. Fitting a 10mn afterburner gives you a MWD with no penalties, except for the grid usage, which is really nothing.
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Liz Bathory
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Posted - 2004.06.30 03:34:00 -
[15]
i;ve both founght in, and against overdriven cruisers
and the plain fact is, to fit that amount of overdriveing,
you sacrifice any hope of miunting any cruiser weapons at all..
lose the bonuses that make frigate weapons uber,
and sacrifice all your defence
if i was piloting a dual 100mn ab rupture, and i got webbed by more then 2 rifters, i would expect to die if i didn't run
hell..
ill break downthe setup for my combat rifter for you
high = 3 125mm AUTOCANNON, and a rocket launcher (maybe, depends on grid fo the launcher)
Mid = 1 10mn ab, 1 stasis webbifier
low = 1 micro aux powercore, 1 cap power relay
top speed.. just over 2 kps
top speed with a 1 mn mwd, 2.6 kps
free grid, 4
i use a micro aux, becuase without it, i can fit the 10 mn and 2 125mm autocannon
if even one webb hits me, i'm screwed
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Sherkaner
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Posted - 2004.06.30 07:13:00 -
[16]
Please keep the thread free of flames.
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Fred0
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Posted - 2004.06.30 07:38:00 -
[17]
Thank you and goodnite perry. There are ways to counter this.
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rowbin hod
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Posted - 2004.06.30 08:27:00 -
[18]
I do not see this "upsizing" to be an issue. All a 10MN or 100MN AB is, is another module with certain requirements, and if you can satisfy the grid and cpu requirememnts then go for it!
If upsizing should be nerfed, then what about downsizing?!?! "Sorry, you can't fit that medium hybrid on your BS, it was intended for use on a cruiser". How stupid would that be? But it's essentially the same thing. If upsizing ABs gives you an unfair speed advantage, then surely using smaller guns gives you an "unfair" advantage against smaller ships. Leave it how is is, the nerf bat needs a vacation.
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"Due to the European lard shortage, we are currently unable to supply this product." |
TGIF
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Posted - 2004.06.30 08:39:00 -
[19]
I will tell you the ammount of months it takes to train for these setups: I trained over 3 months to be able to fly a double 100mw ab.
If CCP really wanted modules restricted to ship types, they should set limits to the modules use. In other words, restrict frigate modules to frigates and cruiser modules to cruisers and so on.
But then again you have to ask yourself if that is what ccp intended, since the latest patch with the large guns who are not able to hit frigates is forcing battleship pilots to use cruiser guns (THUS DOWNGRADE YOUR SHIP ABILITIES) on a battleship.
Remember it works both ways, these cruiser pilots Sacrifice months of training, all their powergrid and cpu to be fast instead of high damage dealers using SMALL guns. While people in battleships with rocketlauchers to fire defenders (which isnt a real battleship module) would get nerfed with such a fix too.
What people should start doing, is pulling their head out of their arses and consider for ONCE that finding these setups takes AGES to find and fit within the desire of DEVS for the community to use diffrent setups. Experimentation and beeing unique shouldnt be punished, what will we head for if people like the TS get their way? Industrials remove their highslots because they shouldnt be able to fight back and defend themselves? Caldari MK2 indies remove their ability to use EWAR?
Remove mining lasers from battleships aswell then, and from cruisers who have no specific bonusses for mining and from frigates too. Oh and remove using cargo expanders to on battleships, since they shouldnt be a armor plated indy.. And so on and so on.
I salute those who found out this setup, since it merely shows how great this game is: There are no stupid carebear limits.
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Absinthe Fueled |
Altai Saker
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Posted - 2004.06.30 08:47:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Altai Saker on 01/07/2004 02:41:23
Hey mate, I've been trying pretty hard now to figure out this setup where I can fit 2* 100mn AB's on this thorax here.
So first lets set something up.
Lets do a Vanilla flavour blasterrax(the setup that need the most speed).
5* Ions takes 750 PG
1* 100mn take 500 PG
Now my thorax with Engi 5 has only 875 base PG.
So just to fit theese 6 items I would have to tack on another 425 PG.
DONT NERF THE OVERSIZED AB'S THEY'RE NEEDED AND YOU HAVE TO MAKE BIG SACRIFICES TO USE THEM.
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Jeswyn
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Posted - 2004.06.30 09:28:00 -
[21]
It seems to me that most of the people complaining have either never heard of Stasis Webifiers or are reluctant to alter their setup to use them.
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Maud Dib
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Posted - 2004.06.30 13:34:00 -
[22]
People always try to get the things they don't like to use nerfed.
Thus it sayth in the carebear tounge of old.
personal dislike= omg hax0r spl0it
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Dee Saster
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Posted - 2004.07.01 13:19:00 -
[23]
Quote:
People always try to get the things they don't like to use nerfed.
Amen to that mate and as was stated by a lot of posts, fit webbers instead of QQing.
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Dee Saster
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Posted - 2004.07.01 13:19:00 -
[24]
Quote:
People always try to get the things they don't like to use nerfed.
Amen to that mate and as was stated by a lot of posts, fit webbers instead of QQing.
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Roxy
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Posted - 2004.07.01 14:01:00 -
[25]
Yes it should be nerfed hard for a few reasons:
* Only battleships do not have the option to go faster without increasing the sig radius. Its majorly discriminating against BS pilots like me who despise frigates and the whiners who want frigates to have a battleships durability for a fraction of the price.
* It makes the MWD nerf utterly pointless. They might as well go back to the old MWD if upsizing is allowed to continue.
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Roxy
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Posted - 2004.07.01 14:01:00 -
[26]
Yes it should be nerfed hard for a few reasons:
* Only battleships do not have the option to go faster without increasing the sig radius. Its majorly discriminating against BS pilots like me who despise frigates and the whiners who want frigates to have a battleships durability for a fraction of the price.
* It makes the MWD nerf utterly pointless. They might as well go back to the old MWD if upsizing is allowed to continue.
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Ahlaia
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Posted - 2004.07.01 14:37:00 -
[27]
chu the *** up!!!!!!!! bs are not supose to go any fast and its always te BS here, bS there, BS ahead, BS over there  .
THEY ARE OK, u ****ing noobs, isnted of whinning about it, figure out ways of fighting. your just friggin laaaazyyyy. by putting 10mnab of a frig u sacrifice a lot of powergride n a significant amount of speed. same goes to cruisers.
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Ahlaia
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Posted - 2004.07.01 14:37:00 -
[28]
chu the *** up!!!!!!!! bs are not supose to go any fast and its always te BS here, bS there, BS ahead, BS over there .
THEY ARE OK, u ****ing noobs, isnted of whinning about it, figure out ways of fighting. your just friggin laaaazyyyy. by putting 10mnab of a frig u sacrifice a lot of powergride n a significant amount of speed. same goes to cruisers.
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flummox
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Posted - 2004.07.01 14:58:00 -
[29]
no more nerfing. stop it. stop complaining about something you don't like with the intentions of changing it. please. for the love of this game. stop the nerfing...
modules already have built in "nerfs". it's called fitting requirements. PG, CPU, and hi/mid/low slots. you show me a module that i can fit on my ship without using any PG, any CPU, and i don't have to use a hi/mid/low slot and then maybe we'll talk about nerfs...
fix bugs. add content. but quit nerfing.
there is a fine, but dissasterous line between a fart and a shart. i suggest you make sure which side you want to be on... |
flummox
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Posted - 2004.07.01 14:58:00 -
[30]
no more nerfing. stop it. stop complaining about something you don't like with the intentions of changing it. please. for the love of this game. stop the nerfing...
modules already have built in "nerfs". it's called fitting requirements. PG, CPU, and hi/mid/low slots. you show me a module that i can fit on my ship without using any PG, any CPU, and i don't have to use a hi/mid/low slot and then maybe we'll talk about nerfs...
fix bugs. add content. but quit nerfing.
there is a fine, but dissasterous line between a fart and a shart. i suggest you make sure which side you want to be on... |
Roxy
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Posted - 2004.07.01 15:04:00 -
[31]
"you show me a module that i can fit on my ship without using any PG, any CPU"
Overdrive Injector System. 
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Roxy
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Posted - 2004.07.01 15:04:00 -
[32]
"you show me a module that i can fit on my ship without using any PG, any CPU"
Overdrive Injector System.
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Pychian Vanervi
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Posted - 2004.07.01 15:10:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Roxy
"you show me a module that i can fit on my ship without using any PG, any CPU"
Overdrive Injector System.
They need nerfing big time, the poor inty pilots only gain less than 10% speed increase when BS can gain up to 25%. Man thats so unfair please nerf them because BS are gaining too much!!! 
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It's all about the fortune and glory, fortune and glory!
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Pychian Vanervi
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Posted - 2004.07.01 15:10:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Roxy
"you show me a module that i can fit on my ship without using any PG, any CPU"
Overdrive Injector System.
They need nerfing big time, the poor inty pilots only gain less than 10% speed increase when BS can gain up to 25%. Man thats so unfair please nerf them because BS are gaining too much!!!
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It's all about the fortune and glory, fortune and glory!
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ActiveX
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Posted - 2004.07.01 19:36:00 -
[35]
Increase Webifier range to more than 10 km and that would be a valid retort to ppl who want you to take it like man.
I dont mind the upsizing, but its annoying when ppl assume that it has to remain 'uber'...
What I see here is people who found a way to get around the mwd nerf and simply don't think there is anything wrong with that.
Sure, you do sacrifice a lot, but can you be destroyed? More than likely not, otherwise the whole point of going that fast would be moot.
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Sex / Rank 9 / SP: 1280 of 2304000
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ActiveX
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Posted - 2004.07.01 19:36:00 -
[36]
Increase Webifier range to more than 10 km and that would be a valid retort to ppl who want you to take it like man.
I dont mind the upsizing, but its annoying when ppl assume that it has to remain 'uber'...
What I see here is people who found a way to get around the mwd nerf and simply don't think there is anything wrong with that.
Sure, you do sacrifice a lot, but can you be destroyed? More than likely not, otherwise the whole point of going that fast would be moot.
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Sex / Rank 9 / SP: 1280 of 2304000
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flummox
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Posted - 2004.07.01 19:52:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Roxy
"you show me a module that i can fit on my ship without using any PG, any CPU"
Overdrive Injector System.
the original said... "you show me a module that i can fit on my ship without using any PG, any CPU, and i don't have to use a hi/mid/low slot and then maybe we'll talk about nerfs..."
don't just leave out what doesn't support your argument...
there is a fine, but dissasterous line between a fart and a shart. i suggest you make sure which side you want to be on... |
flummox
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Posted - 2004.07.01 19:52:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Roxy
"you show me a module that i can fit on my ship without using any PG, any CPU"
Overdrive Injector System.
the original said... "you show me a module that i can fit on my ship without using any PG, any CPU, and i don't have to use a hi/mid/low slot and then maybe we'll talk about nerfs..."
don't just leave out what doesn't support your argument...
there is a fine, but dissasterous line between a fart and a shart. i suggest you make sure which side you want to be on... |
Gaijin Lanis
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Posted - 2004.07.01 20:37:00 -
[39]
Originally by: ActiveX
What I see here is people who found a way to get around the mwd nerf and simply don't think there is anything wrong with that.
Its possible to tank some ships to near invulnerability. To do so, one must sacrifice high amounts of offensive capabilities. Is this an exploit of game mechanics? Should it be considered an exploit to utilize a strong defence at the cost of offense?
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Gaijin Lanis
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Posted - 2004.07.01 20:37:00 -
[40]
Originally by: ActiveX
What I see here is people who found a way to get around the mwd nerf and simply don't think there is anything wrong with that.
Its possible to tank some ships to near invulnerability. To do so, one must sacrifice high amounts of offensive capabilities. Is this an exploit of game mechanics? Should it be considered an exploit to utilize a strong defence at the cost of offense?
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Ardra
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Posted - 2004.07.01 22:09:00 -
[41]
take into consideration the projectiles nerfed tracking...
also consider the fact that a 100MN ab says 'Hint Battleship Mod' or something like. yes nerf the ABs reqs ( not alot just alil tweek like +10-15 PG or something) but yes CRUISER GUNS BEFO NEED A OVER-HAUL! the fact that frigs and BSs get +% dam per lvl and cruisers get range at best means that a cruiser gun ship comes second best to a cal missle boat (+
% mis dam) tbh i think the dev team need to sit down and decide once and for all, wot they wont the ships/weapons to do before moving on with shiva (just my opinion)
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Ardra
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Posted - 2004.07.01 22:09:00 -
[42]
take into consideration the projectiles nerfed tracking...
also consider the fact that a 100MN ab says 'Hint Battleship Mod' or something like. yes nerf the ABs reqs ( not alot just alil tweek like +10-15 PG or something) but yes CRUISER GUNS BEFO NEED A OVER-HAUL! the fact that frigs and BSs get +% dam per lvl and cruisers get range at best means that a cruiser gun ship comes second best to a cal missle boat (+
% mis dam) tbh i think the dev team need to sit down and decide once and for all, wot they wont the ships/weapons to do before moving on with shiva (just my opinion)
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Weirda
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Posted - 2004.07.01 23:46:00 -
[43]
No - Weirda don't think it should be nerfed. Don't use it because ship is too gimped by Grid requirements, but diversity in style is welcomed in Weirda's opinion.
If there was no counter to the tactic, then yes... maybe... but there is, so calling for NERF is foolish (imho).
That's all! 
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Thread Killer
<END TRANSMISSION> |
Weirda
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Posted - 2004.07.01 23:46:00 -
[44]
No - Weirda don't think it should be nerfed. Don't use it because ship is too gimped by Grid requirements, but diversity in style is welcomed in Weirda's opinion.
If there was no counter to the tactic, then yes... maybe... but there is, so calling for NERF is foolish (imho).
That's all!
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Thread Killer
<END TRANSMISSION> |
DJTheBaron
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Posted - 2004.07.02 01:35:00 -
[45]
if you want cruisers and bs sized modules to only be mounted on cruisers and bs, then why not make smal guns onyl mounted on frigates med only on cruisers and large only on bs, no chance of letting a bs fit a medium energy neur or assualt launcher to kil frigs
there is no ship or setup in this game that is invincable or even hard to beat, its all a matter of what your current fitting happens to be when you come up against them
face it you cant have the best of both worlds, so if you come up against someone using boosted speed or boosted hitpoints, theyre not indestructable, it just requires you to adapt
and if you know what kind of ship you are likley to come up against, then fit to counter their setups
if you want to survive all it takes are max warp core stabs, max sheild hardners rechargers and relays and to burn through gates and warp points without shooting
if you want to equip for fighting, then dont expect to beat every setup out there, it is very easy to counter all offencive setups by going pure defence with speed, this will make sure you survive but dont expect it to win you a fight
if your tired of dying equip for travel using speed and hitpoints modules and never engague the enemy, if your fitted for combat accept the fact that your risking your ship in combat
and if your really that oposed to people firing on you, stay in empire and never have any corp wars
__________________________________________________
Scum, your all scum. |
DJTheBaron
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Posted - 2004.07.02 01:35:00 -
[46]
if you want cruisers and bs sized modules to only be mounted on cruisers and bs, then why not make smal guns onyl mounted on frigates med only on cruisers and large only on bs, no chance of letting a bs fit a medium energy neur or assualt launcher to kil frigs
there is no ship or setup in this game that is invincable or even hard to beat, its all a matter of what your current fitting happens to be when you come up against them
face it you cant have the best of both worlds, so if you come up against someone using boosted speed or boosted hitpoints, theyre not indestructable, it just requires you to adapt
and if you know what kind of ship you are likley to come up against, then fit to counter their setups
if you want to survive all it takes are max warp core stabs, max sheild hardners rechargers and relays and to burn through gates and warp points without shooting
if you want to equip for fighting, then dont expect to beat every setup out there, it is very easy to counter all offencive setups by going pure defence with speed, this will make sure you survive but dont expect it to win you a fight
if your tired of dying equip for travel using speed and hitpoints modules and never engague the enemy, if your fitted for combat accept the fact that your risking your ship in combat
and if your really that oposed to people firing on you, stay in empire and never have any corp wars
__________________________________________________
Scum, your all scum. |
Mikelangelo
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Posted - 2004.07.02 02:23:00 -
[47]
Quote:
Currently Cruisers are zipping around faster then Interceptors because its easy to eqip even two 100mn Afterburners on Cruisers. This leaves enough grid to fit small turrets or launchers which are superior to medium turrets in many aspects. The victim of such a smart but also lame tactic can not do much, missles are too slow, anticruiser-turrets dont track, and it feels like being cheated by some *****-733t, perhaps you know what i mean.
First of all, putting a BS sized afterburner on a cruiser, basically leaves you with very little powergrid for any decent weapons. I dont know where you get that they move at interceptor type speeds....they aren't anywhere close to interceptor+mwd speeds.
If you put a 100 MN AB on a Rupture, you have something like 400 powergrid left over, which is hardly enough to fit some frigate autocannons and 2-3 heavy missile launchers. Yeah you could put two 100 MN AB on there, but you can't have any weapons. That's the trade off. Nothing wrong with it.
You can also put a 10 MN AB I on a Tristan, and various other frigates, but you dont have any PG left over for nothing else, maybe 1 gun or 1 smartbomb or something.
Quote:
btw no i was NOT raped by this tactic, im just a bit dissappointed that this is not only the most unrealistic but also the most effective setup.
First of all, people have been putting BS afterburners on cruisers ever since the size specific ABs came out. And yes, they are effective under certain circumstances, but hardly something to scream NERF over.
You can get fast tracking medium turrets that have absolutely no problem hitting a frigate orbiting you at 2km. Dual 180mm autocannons track just great, without any tracking aids. I haven't used lasers in a while, but I'm sure there are some fast tracking medium turrets, that have high tracking. That's if you have to use mediums.
There is NOTHING wrong with using a webber, as well as mounting 1 or 2 frigate guns along with your medium guns. There are always counter-tactics to a tactic. Think. Learn. Adapt.
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Mikelangelo
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Posted - 2004.07.02 02:23:00 -
[48]
Quote:
Currently Cruisers are zipping around faster then Interceptors because its easy to eqip even two 100mn Afterburners on Cruisers. This leaves enough grid to fit small turrets or launchers which are superior to medium turrets in many aspects. The victim of such a smart but also lame tactic can not do much, missles are too slow, anticruiser-turrets dont track, and it feels like being cheated by some *****-733t, perhaps you know what i mean.
First of all, putting a BS sized afterburner on a cruiser, basically leaves you with very little powergrid for any decent weapons. I dont know where you get that they move at interceptor type speeds....they aren't anywhere close to interceptor+mwd speeds.
If you put a 100 MN AB on a Rupture, you have something like 400 powergrid left over, which is hardly enough to fit some frigate autocannons and 2-3 heavy missile launchers. Yeah you could put two 100 MN AB on there, but you can't have any weapons. That's the trade off. Nothing wrong with it.
You can also put a 10 MN AB I on a Tristan, and various other frigates, but you dont have any PG left over for nothing else, maybe 1 gun or 1 smartbomb or something.
Quote:
btw no i was NOT raped by this tactic, im just a bit dissappointed that this is not only the most unrealistic but also the most effective setup.
First of all, people have been putting BS afterburners on cruisers ever since the size specific ABs came out. And yes, they are effective under certain circumstances, but hardly something to scream NERF over.
You can get fast tracking medium turrets that have absolutely no problem hitting a frigate orbiting you at 2km. Dual 180mm autocannons track just great, without any tracking aids. I haven't used lasers in a while, but I'm sure there are some fast tracking medium turrets, that have high tracking. That's if you have to use mediums.
There is NOTHING wrong with using a webber, as well as mounting 1 or 2 frigate guns along with your medium guns. There are always counter-tactics to a tactic. Think. Learn. Adapt.
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Garramon
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Posted - 2004.07.02 06:13:00 -
[49]
No Change please!
Diversity in setups is great. If someone wants to run that setup...fine theyll get kills until they run into someone prepared....it happens with EVERY setup.
Thats like saying "Nerf smartbombs, I cant get into blaster range!"
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Garramon
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Posted - 2004.07.02 06:13:00 -
[50]
No Change please!
Diversity in setups is great. If someone wants to run that setup...fine theyll get kills until they run into someone prepared....it happens with EVERY setup.
Thats like saying "Nerf smartbombs, I cant get into blaster range!"
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Dee Saster
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Posted - 2004.07.02 11:11:00 -
[51]
Its ridiculous, finally cruisers have their niche in the game and everyone shouts out nerf already instead of adapting. As if EvE needs more hits from the nerf-bat...
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Dee Saster
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Posted - 2004.07.02 11:11:00 -
[52]
Its ridiculous, finally cruisers have their niche in the game and everyone shouts out nerf already instead of adapting. As if EvE needs more hits from the nerf-bat...
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ActiveX
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Posted - 2004.07.02 18:29:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Gaijin Lanis
Originally by: ActiveX
What I see here is people who found a way to get around the mwd nerf and simply don't think there is anything wrong with that.
Its possible to tank some ships to near invulnerability. To do so, one must sacrifice high amounts of offensive capabilities. Is this an exploit of game mechanics? Should it be considered an exploit to utilize a strong defence at the cost of offense?
Are any of those hardeners or plates class specific?
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Sex / Rank 9 / SP: 1280 of 2304000
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ActiveX
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Posted - 2004.07.02 18:29:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Gaijin Lanis
Originally by: ActiveX
What I see here is people who found a way to get around the mwd nerf and simply don't think there is anything wrong with that.
Its possible to tank some ships to near invulnerability. To do so, one must sacrifice high amounts of offensive capabilities. Is this an exploit of game mechanics? Should it be considered an exploit to utilize a strong defence at the cost of offense?
Are any of those hardeners or plates class specific?
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Sex / Rank 9 / SP: 1280 of 2304000
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Cocyte
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Posted - 2004.07.03 03:16:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Mikelangelo
You can also put a 10 MN AB I on a Tristan, and various other frigates, but you dont have any PG left over for nothing else, maybe 1 gun or 1 smartbomb or something.
Nope... Got a Tristan fitted with a 10MN ab, 2 150mm rails and a std launcher in it...
Of course, it's with electronics & engineering 5 and all low slots filled with auxilliary power cores.
I don't really understand what the trouble is... Oversized AB have obvious advantages versus MWD - no caps & shield reduction, no signature increase, but they also have some serious drawbacks : the high fitting requirements and a reduced speed bonus (350% instead of the 500% for the MWD)...
Probationary lecturer of the University of Caille
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Cocyte
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Posted - 2004.07.03 03:16:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Mikelangelo
You can also put a 10 MN AB I on a Tristan, and various other frigates, but you dont have any PG left over for nothing else, maybe 1 gun or 1 smartbomb or something.
Nope... Got a Tristan fitted with a 10MN ab, 2 150mm rails and a std launcher in it...
Of course, it's with electronics & engineering 5 and all low slots filled with auxilliary power cores.
I don't really understand what the trouble is... Oversized AB have obvious advantages versus MWD - no caps & shield reduction, no signature increase, but they also have some serious drawbacks : the high fitting requirements and a reduced speed bonus (350% instead of the 500% for the MWD)...
Probationary lecturer of the University of Caille
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Vyril
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Posted - 2004.07.03 05:28:00 -
[57]
I don't feel they need to be nerfed.
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Vyril
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Posted - 2004.07.03 05:28:00 -
[58]
I don't feel they need to be nerfed.
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Gaijin Lanis
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Posted - 2004.07.03 05:39:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Gaijin Lanis on 03/07/2004 05:41:36
Originally by: ActiveX
Are any of those hardeners or plates class specific?
Are you proposing further class specific nerfs of armor/shield hardeners/extenders/plates?
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Gaijin Lanis
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Posted - 2004.07.03 05:39:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Gaijin Lanis on 03/07/2004 05:41:36
Originally by: ActiveX
Are any of those hardeners or plates class specific?
Are you proposing further class specific nerfs of armor/shield hardeners/extenders/plates?
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Destin Tyr
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Posted - 2004.07.03 16:08:00 -
[61]
I've been going nuts trying to fit 100mn AB's on my cruisers. It's tough to do and it doesn't leave you with much cap left for offense.
What I wouldn't mind seeing, if getting more people to use AB's as opposed to MWD's is the goal of the adjustments made to them, is the proper AB's for the class getting a little speed boost when used on that class. For instance, double the extra speed given by a 10mn AB WHEN IT'S USED ON A CRUISER. No double speed if a 10mn AB is used on a Frigate, for instance. I don't know if CCP could code it that way, but it would make AB's more practical for everyday use, but still make MWD's a viable option for when you wanted more speed, and weren't worried so much about cap and shields.
I'm running a caracal with a 10mn AB and an overdrive injector, and an NPC moa was catching me yesterday, for gods sake. A MOA! Being as it's a shield tanked ship, I just don't want the cap and shield hit from the MWD, but if the bad guys are going to catch me anyway, then why even bother with the 10mn AB in the first place. Does anyone see my point? Instead of just using the stick of the MWD shield and cap penalties, how about using a little bit of carrot by making AB's of the proper size for your ship a little more viable.
-In space, no one can hear you whine |
Destin Tyr
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Posted - 2004.07.03 16:08:00 -
[62]
I've been going nuts trying to fit 100mn AB's on my cruisers. It's tough to do and it doesn't leave you with much cap left for offense.
What I wouldn't mind seeing, if getting more people to use AB's as opposed to MWD's is the goal of the adjustments made to them, is the proper AB's for the class getting a little speed boost when used on that class. For instance, double the extra speed given by a 10mn AB WHEN IT'S USED ON A CRUISER. No double speed if a 10mn AB is used on a Frigate, for instance. I don't know if CCP could code it that way, but it would make AB's more practical for everyday use, but still make MWD's a viable option for when you wanted more speed, and weren't worried so much about cap and shields.
I'm running a caracal with a 10mn AB and an overdrive injector, and an NPC moa was catching me yesterday, for gods sake. A MOA! Being as it's a shield tanked ship, I just don't want the cap and shield hit from the MWD, but if the bad guys are going to catch me anyway, then why even bother with the 10mn AB in the first place. Does anyone see my point? Instead of just using the stick of the MWD shield and cap penalties, how about using a little bit of carrot by making AB's of the proper size for your ship a little more viable.
-In space, no one can hear you whine |
lawmi
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Posted - 2004.07.03 17:16:00 -
[63]
its the bs poilts: for petse sakke fit a 1 frig size gun: PROBLEM SOLVED you should have enogh sheilds/amour to survive BS ARE NOT THE BEST AT EVERY THING: FACE IT they are not meant to be fast: crusirers are a trade off between speed and power. |
lawmi
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Posted - 2004.07.03 17:16:00 -
[64]
its the bs poilts: for petse sakke fit a 1 frig size gun: PROBLEM SOLVED you should have enogh sheilds/amour to survive BS ARE NOT THE BEST AT EVERY THING: FACE IT they are not meant to be fast: crusirers are a trade off between speed and power. |
Levin Cavil
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Posted - 2004.07.03 21:25:00 -
[65]
Originally by: X'Alor
Hmm. didn't think about that.
Moa once again, 10% range bonus to hybrid. So you can make your small compressed coil 150's hit at decent medium range with lvl 4 cruiser.
Not to mention more ammo storage, with a barage of heavy missles backing up the coils......
Going to play with moa set ups now.
thanks for the pointers perry
Its a bonus to MEDIUM hybrids
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<Hammerhead> we can't do anything that requires programming
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Levin Cavil
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Posted - 2004.07.03 21:25:00 -
[66]
Originally by: X'Alor
Hmm. didn't think about that.
Moa once again, 10% range bonus to hybrid. So you can make your small compressed coil 150's hit at decent medium range with lvl 4 cruiser.
Not to mention more ammo storage, with a barage of heavy missles backing up the coils......
Going to play with moa set ups now.
thanks for the pointers perry
Its a bonus to MEDIUM hybrids
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<Hammerhead> we can't do anything that requires programming
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Levin Cavil
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Posted - 2004.07.03 21:44:00 -
[67]
Originally by: lawmi
its the bs poilts: for petse sakke fit a 1 frig size gun: PROBLEM SOLVED you should have enogh sheilds/amour to survive BS ARE NOT THE BEST AT EVERY THING: FACE IT they are not meant to be fast: crusirers are a trade off between speed and power.
Actually that doesn't work, you need a web too and at that point you may as well fit a medium gun and at that point you may as well fit a tracking comp too and use large guns again. Then you have the best frig killer, a BS with webs and traking comps with 1 shot kill large guns. If you really want to **** people off put 8 smartbombs on a battleship with 2 mwd.
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<Hammerhead> we can't do anything that requires programming
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Levin Cavil
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Posted - 2004.07.03 21:44:00 -
[68]
Originally by: lawmi
its the bs poilts: for petse sakke fit a 1 frig size gun: PROBLEM SOLVED you should have enogh sheilds/amour to survive BS ARE NOT THE BEST AT EVERY THING: FACE IT they are not meant to be fast: crusirers are a trade off between speed and power.
Actually that doesn't work, you need a web too and at that point you may as well fit a medium gun and at that point you may as well fit a tracking comp too and use large guns again. Then you have the best frig killer, a BS with webs and traking comps with 1 shot kill large guns. If you really want to **** people off put 8 smartbombs on a battleship with 2 mwd.
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<Hammerhead> we can't do anything that requires programming
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Morikai Acler
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Posted - 2004.07.04 20:19:00 -
[69]
Dont know bout anyone else, but I was heading towards 10mn ab route on frigates before they even nerfed the MWD. Simply because I'm caldari and need the shields more. Things a lot of people are overlooking, is that up sized ab is slower than regular sized MWD. ITs not hard to figure out, just take the number you get from it normally and multiply it by 10.
So therefor a 10mn ab on a frigate, with level 4 ab skill only gives 395% speed boost. Rather than the 550% I normally get from a 1mn MWD. That, and without high skills in fuel conservation the AB uses a lot more power. Same thing goes for fitting 100mn on a cruiser, but the cruiser has to sacrifice a hell of a lot more fire power. Though a cruiser could fit a tech2 100mn if you could find them, where as a frigate cannot with a tech2 10mn because of the extra 10pg needed.
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Morikai Acler
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Posted - 2004.07.04 20:19:00 -
[70]
Dont know bout anyone else, but I was heading towards 10mn ab route on frigates before they even nerfed the MWD. Simply because I'm caldari and need the shields more. Things a lot of people are overlooking, is that up sized ab is slower than regular sized MWD. ITs not hard to figure out, just take the number you get from it normally and multiply it by 10.
So therefor a 10mn ab on a frigate, with level 4 ab skill only gives 395% speed boost. Rather than the 550% I normally get from a 1mn MWD. That, and without high skills in fuel conservation the AB uses a lot more power. Same thing goes for fitting 100mn on a cruiser, but the cruiser has to sacrifice a hell of a lot more fire power. Though a cruiser could fit a tech2 100mn if you could find them, where as a frigate cannot with a tech2 10mn because of the extra 10pg needed.
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