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Dragon Lord
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.10.28 13:59:00 -
[1]
Looks like the changes on sisi mean that frigs will be unkillable using torps or cruise and cruisers very hard to kill, and larger drones have had there tracking screwed so i guess soloing lvl4s became alot more interesting. Will haveto see the final changes but looks like the solo lvl4 pwn ship that was the Raven will be dead very soon. And i guess that also includes the CNR and Golem. I suppose the drone tracking nerf on small targets might also screw the domi, oh well guess only time will tell.
Good excuse to finally trains guns though :)
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Lana Lanee
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Posted - 2008.10.28 14:00:00 -
[2]
stfu, guns are nerfed too. good excuse to finally start mining!
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Roidest
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Posted - 2008.10.28 14:07:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Dragon Lord Looks like the changes on sisi mean that frigs will be unkillable using torps or cruise and cruisers very hard to kill, and larger drones have had there tracking screwed so i guess soloing lvl4s became alot more interesting. Will haveto see the final changes but looks like the solo lvl4 pwn ship that was the Raven will be dead very soon.
You can try lvl4 on SISI to be sure about this.
As for Domi, well, there is enough dronebay for light and medium drones.
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Hayman Wakefield
Caldari Trans-Stellar Salvage Shipping and Securities Ethikos Trade Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.28 14:09:00 -
[4]
Have you actually been on sisi and tested this out yet? I have in my standard t2 fit cruise Golem and yes there is definately a damage reduction but hardly OMG the sky is falling. You will have to mount a target painter to help but thats no great shakes and I've been using one for ages anyway. Drones tbh still do their thing vs frigs, standard cruisers and BC's can still be 1 vollied, dessies still can be wiped out with a single missile (granted from a golem). Frigs especially the AF style ones do take 3 vollys so I'm sticking to drones for them. So recap, target painters help missile boats (no change there) drones still useful vs frigs, and no the sky is not falling and the Raven group of BS are still the pve kings.
Originally by: Capt Harlock "I have a mouse with a green tail". It's tail may or may not be green. The car however is mating with a monkey".
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DukeHilton
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Posted - 2008.10.28 14:19:00 -
[5]
can i have your raven+cnr+golem stuffz |
Guygeboe
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Posted - 2008.10.28 14:25:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Guygeboe on 28/10/2008 14:25:44 What about torps? they seriously dont damage frigs? that sounds too weird...what use is the explosion velocity bonus than on Golems? apart from hitting cruisers then...
I see no problems...frigs are meant to be killed by your drones anyway. It does kinda suck when they all get shot in the mission though...
edit: so this is why i read about the nighthawk going to be faster then ravens and golems :P |
Ghengis Tia
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Posted - 2008.10.28 14:26:00 -
[7]
1. Warhead Rigor Catalyst 1 2. Profit |
FT Diomedes
Gallente Ductus Exemplo
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Posted - 2008.10.28 14:49:00 -
[8]
In all my time flying missions I have not fired a single cruise missile or torp at a ship smaller than a cruiser. Drones handle these ships just fine. With proper spawn management, my drones can kill all the small stuff in about the same time it takes me to kill the big stuff with proper weapons.
The only thing I would be concerned about is if cruise missiles or torps now have a harder time killing larger ships - especially BSs (but also BCs or cruisers). Is this the case? ------------
Improvize. Adapt. Overcome.
Selling Gallente, Minmatar and SoE faction goodies (including Virtue implants).
I am looking for a good 0.0 corp/alliance. Convo if interested. |
vanBuskirk
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.10.28 15:30:00 -
[9]
Originally by: FT Diomedes In all my time flying missions I have not fired a single cruise missile or torp at a ship smaller than a cruiser. Drones handle these ships just fine. With proper spawn management, my drones can kill all the small stuff in about the same time it takes me to kill the big stuff with proper weapons.
The only thing I would be concerned about is if cruise missiles or torps now have a harder time killing larger ships - especially BSs (but also BCs or cruisers). Is this the case?
Interesting. I find that sometimes firing a single cruise at a frigate in a swarm of them gets aggro, and they then MWD towards me - which makes cruise missiles very effective against them.
Granted, this is only worth doing with frigates, initially at long range, that can get you killed if they get in close - which basically means the tacklers. Keeping the option to run away (sorry, make a tactical retreat ) is always nice. It's also a good idea to have the radial velocity column enabled, and watch it. Over 500m/s and they are probably on MWD. ---------------------------------------------- "Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent."
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Srioghal moDhream
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Posted - 2008.10.28 15:48:00 -
[10]
Also keep in mind, just because it is on sisi today does not mean it will go to patch.
It is a test server, they test out ideas there. That's the point of a test server. To test things. You know, different things. To test if they work or not.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.10.28 17:40:00 -
[11]
All of this spells... N i g h t h a w k.
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Sofia Kyodai
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Posted - 2008.10.28 18:03:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Dragon Lord Looks like the changes on sisi mean that frigs will be unkillable using torps or cruise and cruisers very hard to kill, and larger drones have had there tracking screwed so i guess soloing lvl4s became alot more interesting. Will haveto see the final changes but looks like the solo lvl4 pwn ship that was the Raven will be dead very soon. And i guess that also includes the CNR and Golem. I suppose the drone tracking nerf on small targets might also screw the domi, oh well guess only time will tell.
Good excuse to finally trains guns though :)
And you think that's really world shattering? Train Guided Missile Precision and Target Nav Prediction for Cruise, Golem already has 2 bonuses for torps, namely the TP bonus AND a built in Target Nav Prediction bonus. No, the next expansion will be anything but the death of missile BSs...
PS: oh, and i can use guns too, but wont need them anyway
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Krasnij Okjabre
Caldari the united
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Posted - 2008.10.28 18:35:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Akita T All of this spells... N i g h t h a w k.
I found a well fitted Cerberus worked better. Far superior range... hehe
That was when I ran missions... |
Joshua Calvert
Caldari Safespot Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.28 18:38:00 -
[14]
Or just fit heavy missile launchers in two slots... |
onoma
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Posted - 2008.10.28 20:00:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Lana Lanee stfu, guns are nerfed too. good excuse to finally start mining!
LOL so true
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Sig Sour
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Posted - 2008.10.28 20:05:00 -
[16]
Way to be creative on picking solutions. There is one out there, but Ill leave that up for someone who has something to prove to tell you.
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Khraunus
Amarr Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2008.10.28 21:08:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Ghengis Tia 1. Warhead Rigor Catalyst 1 2. Profit
you forgot 1.5. ?????
Yeah, Ravens got nerfed down so that now they don't instapwn anything frigate sized, but I have to say I do think that was needed. They did a pretty high ammount of damage pre-nerf. Most importantly, how are you supposed to tell whether this is part of my post or my signature? |
FT Diomedes
Gallente Ductus Exemplo
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Posted - 2008.10.28 22:05:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Joshua Calvert Or just fit heavy missile launchers in two slots...
Fail. ------------
Improvize. Adapt. Overcome.
Selling Gallente, Minmatar and SoE faction goodies (including Virtue implants).
I am looking for a good 0.0 corp/alliance. Convo if interested. |
Joss Sparq
Caldari ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.28 22:56:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Joss Sparq on 28/10/2008 22:55:52
Originally by: Dragon Lord and larger drones have had there tracking screwed
So use medium drones?
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FT Diomedes
Gallente Ductus Exemplo
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Posted - 2008.10.29 01:28:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Joss Sparq Edited by: Joss Sparq on 28/10/2008 22:55:52
Originally by: Dragon Lord and larger drones have had there tracking screwed
So use medium drones?
Or fit omnidirectional tracking CPUs, which all good Dominix fits should already include. ------------
Improvize. Adapt. Overcome.
Selling Gallente, Minmatar and SoE faction goodies (including Virtue implants).
I am looking for a good 0.0 corp/alliance. Convo if interested. |
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.10.29 06:22:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Krasnij Okjabre
Originally by: Akita T All of this spells... N i g h t h a w k.
I found a well fitted Cerberus worked better. Far superior range... hehe
I don't know, I find ~70km to be more than enough range already And the DPS difference between a Cerberus and Nighthawk... huge. Heck, a Drake outdamages a Cerberus.
_
Create a character || Fit a ship || Get some ISK |
Ruban Boatbuyer
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Posted - 2008.10.29 07:08:00 -
[22]
and what am I supposed to do when I get a disconnect like last night and lose all my drones, hit the self destruct because an unkillable frigate has me scrambled?
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Carniflex
Caldari StarHunt Fallout Project
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Posted - 2008.10.29 07:18:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Ruban Boatbuyer and what am I supposed to do when I get a disconnect like last night and lose all my drones, hit the self destruct because an unkillable frigate has me scrambled?
Logoffski ? Unlike in pvp it is not considered very lame if you do that to NPC's as far as I understand.
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Dragon Lord
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.10.29 10:29:00 -
[24]
well after reading all the posts i guess the best thing to do is test it myself, for the record i have max missile support skills and marauders 5 + implants so the missile chages should be reduced as much as they are possible to reduce, i use javs so will have to see how they fair in this brave new world. Oh and scrap gun training by the sounds of whats happening on sisi there getting screwed worse than missiles lol
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Caldari Silence
shadow and flame Arcane Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.29 12:00:00 -
[25]
I Just Ran Enamys Abound 1 of 5 (Level 4) on the Test server in a standard T2 fitted Raven......was there supposed to be a difference? If anything i completed the mission quicker then usual. I Always pack Tech 2 Drones to handle frigs and crusiers normally, and leave torps and cruise misiles to the BS's.
In all honesty if there was a change made it was hardly noticable on a Level 4, however for PVP im sure there is a major difference. NPC's dont have good skills ya see ;)
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Ghengis Tia
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Posted - 2008.10.29 13:27:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Khraunus
Originally by: Ghengis Tia 1. Warhead Rigor Catalyst 1 2. Profit
you forgot 1.5. ?????
Yeah, Ravens got nerfed down so that now they don't instapwn anything frigate sized, but I have to say I do think that was needed. They did a pretty high ammount of damage pre-nerf.
1.5? Enlighten me please....
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Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
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Posted - 2008.10.29 19:56:00 -
[27]
Originally by: FT Diomedes In all my time flying missions I have not fired a single cruise missile or torp at a ship smaller than a cruiser. Drones handle these ships just fine. With proper spawn management, my drones can kill all the small stuff in about the same time it takes me to kill the big stuff with proper weapons.
The only thing I would be concerned about is if cruise missiles or torps now have a harder time killing larger ships - especially BSs (but also BCs or cruisers). Is this the case?
I only fire cruises on frig-sized ships twice. Worlds Collide 2nd room, Angel base, and uhm another I forgot the name on, 4 groups sitting at 70km+ away and the frig group can be single pulled. MWDing frigs pop from 1-2 cruises there, could as well be taken with drones.
As for the changes, I tried them on test server and I honestly didn't notice any difference at all. Then again just like the guy I quoted, I use drones for everything below BC size.
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Kneebone
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Posted - 2008.10.29 19:57:00 -
[28]
My T2 Hobgoblins seem to work just fine on them, as do my T2 Hammerheads, Hornets, Vespas, and whatever combo I decide I want to run based on the rats I will be fighting. That wont be changing.
And, like many others, I rarely, if ever toss a cruise/torp at a frig class ship from a Raven.
About the only time I actually DO toss a cruise at something s maller then a cruiser is when I'm flying a Manticore.
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Dragon Lord
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.10.30 12:08:00 -
[29]
Well having tested my Torp Golem on SISI it looks like ships still die just as quick even the small fry, twin painters help and max missile support skills and implants + marauders 5 defo helps, would be interesting to see how a torp raven fairs on lvl4s, think they may have to drop to cruise missiles. Interesting that the certificates recommended for a Golem do not include torp spec, just cruise spec 4. I would thik with the golems bonuses Torps should be used although i see the logic in using cruise.
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Zalathar
Minmatar Stellar Research Incorporated DEFI4NT
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Posted - 2008.10.30 12:14:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Zalathar on 30/10/2008 12:14:28 Step 1: buy 5 tech 2 light drones Step 2: buy 5 tech 2 medium drones Step 3: use the meds on BS and cruisers and lights on frigs Step 4: missile launchers focus on BS Step 5: successfully adapt and play like CCP intended the game mechanics to work.
~~~~~~ *mods, if you think i'm ugly please say "eeek!"* ~~~~~~ eeeeeekk - Deckard eeeeee...K -Darth Patches gawwwd damn!!1 -zhuge you soo pretty I think you're stunningly handsome and let me just say that you're wearing that dead parrot on your shoulder in a particularly dashing way today. -Hango Your using up all the space hango! - Timmeh |
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Sila Fang
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.10.30 12:17:00 -
[31]
You could if you have an alt or a firend (no garantee there) put him in a rapier/huginn, and have him web and paint everything. i'm sure it makes mission running ALOT easier.
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FT Diomedes
Gallente Ductus Exemplo
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Posted - 2008.10.30 16:00:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Sila Fang You could if you have an alt or a firend (no garantee there) put him in a rapier/huginn, and have him web and paint everything. i'm sure it makes mission running ALOT easier.
You could also have an alt or friend in another Raven and make mission running a lot easier than that. ------------
Improvize. Adapt. Overcome.
Selling Gallente, Minmatar and SoE faction goodies (including Virtue implants).
I am looking for a good 0.0 corp/alliance. Convo if interested. |
rofflesausage
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Posted - 2008.10.30 18:07:00 -
[33]
Everyone seems to be talking about missions - but what about PvP?
When taking a ship that's a few 100M ISK in value into battle with fittings, I'd like to be able to think it can kill frigs fairly quickly.
Missiles are underused in PvP as it is. I feel this is a fairly negative change. I'm not sure I even like it for PvE that much either.
I'm kinda starting to wish I'd gone with gunnery over missile skills now. That and not being a Caldari
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Crove
Tupperware Party
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Posted - 2008.10.31 08:54:00 -
[34]
The Raven is dead.
Long live the Raven.
Inveniam viam aut faciam |
Nagasumi
Caldari Navy Runners
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Posted - 2008.10.31 09:09:00 -
[35]
Time to learn how to spell or fail at topics
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Ralara
Caldari D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.10.31 11:12:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Caldari Silence I Just Ran Enamys Abound
Enema's Abound --
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Dibsi Dei
Salamyhkaisten kilta
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Posted - 2008.10.31 12:04:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Dragon Lord larger drones have had there tracking screwed
Nope, the exact same tracking in sisi than in tq. Heavy drones are going to **** cruisers just as fast. Can't say the same about turrets and missiles so basically TRAIN DOMINIX AND FAST.
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Benedic
The Aftermath
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Posted - 2008.10.31 12:08:00 -
[38]
Stealth nighthawk boost.
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Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2008.10.31 13:58:00 -
[39]
Since the Raven is so easy to train for, so easy to use, so amazing awesome and perfect in every way, then clearly this affects you also since you fly one too.
Or, wait, you don't? Then perhaps you are stupid?
But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started. |
Lurana Lay
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.10.31 17:45:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Lurana Lay on 31/10/2008 17:48:54
Quote: The only thing I would be concerned about is if cruise missiles or torps now have a harder time killing larger ships - especially BSs (but also BCs or cruisers). Is this the case?
Yes.
Attacking anything, even your ship class size, and under will require a painter and/or a web and you will still do less damage than currently on TQ. Everything is now about sig radius and speed tanking. Medium drones are being tracking nerfed bigtime too.
Missions will take longer. Your tank will suffer due to having to fit painters.
Cruise Ravens will be a flat out waste of time. Raven is dead. It will be Nighthawk or maybe Golem that takes the throne and I'm betting on the Nighthawk.
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Kadoes Khan
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Posted - 2008.10.31 19:52:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Dragon Lord Looks like the changes on sisi mean that frigs will be unkillable using torps or cruise and cruisers very hard to kill, and larger drones have had there tracking screwed so i guess soloing lvl4s became alot more interesting. Will haveto see the final changes but looks like the solo lvl4 pwn ship that was the Raven will be dead very soon. And i guess that also includes the CNR and Golem. I suppose the drone tracking nerf on small targets might also screw the domi, oh well guess only time will tell.
Good excuse to finally trains guns though :)
Nope, they still do missions easily without issue. -=^=- "Someday the world will recognize the genius in my insanity." |
Ghoest
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Posted - 2008.10.31 21:21:00 -
[42]
I dont know if this will hit Ravens hard or not - but fitting a target painter on a Raven is no big deal at all.
And small drones should kill all the frigs just fine - like they already do.
If you think corp is different than a guild or clan you have some insecurity issues.
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