Don't get me wrong, I think that people who prey on the weak in highsec are losers and their tactics should not be supported. I think war costs should be continually revisited and adjusted until there are no longer a ridiculous number of baseless and unused wardecs floating around everywhere--till the average corp who keeps quiet generally isn't in a war. But I also think that bot miners shouldn't be able to mine so freely.

Making it possible yet difficult and expensive to declare war on them will not stop them entirely but it will make it far more difficult for them to operate gigantic hulk fleets, because that's just asking for easy killings.

Do you know what will happen if wars become more expensive than suicide-ganking?

The solution to hiding from war in NPC corps?

It is sad that instead of corps who want wars taunting others into them, or going into low / null sec for action. They prefer to batter and beat the ones who don't, into it. Consider for a second that some people don't want to pvp. Maybe they enjoy socializing, mining, or shooting npcs for lewtz. Then another corp comes along and puts them into a war. One which said corp can't fight off. They are all miners after all . So they devise a "horrible" "dastardly" plan! They make their corp un-wardecable...

So let me ask you a question for your sought after solution. Why is it so hard for one pvp corp to simply war another? There is plenty of kids in the sandbox to throw sand. So really who does the problem sit with?

For the people in NPC corporations. Who cares. They are taxed at a fixed rate no matter what. You don't ever see imperial navy academy holding sov in null sec. And when it comes to everything else, well they are the same as any other player. It isn't like 80% of eve is in npc corps anyways. Go take some sov and fight holding it if you lack pvp.

This is Eve online. If you're not willing to fight for what you have, including your right to exist, you're in the wrong game. Don't bring a feather duster to a knife fight.

I'm thinking all NPC corps in EVE except the starter corps should have wars with other corps in EVE, and players in one NPC corp could shoot war targets from another hostile NPC corp freely in empire space. And you should probably have a limit to how long you can sit in the starter corp.

This is Eve online. If you're not willing to fight for what you have, including your right to exist, you're in the wrong game.

And just WHERE is this in the Documentation ??????

Sandboxes have no will or compulsion to force ANY actions or behavior.

YOU are in the wrong game.

I'm thinking all NPC corps in EVE except the starter corps should have wars with other corps in EVE, and players in one NPC corp could shoot war targets from another hostile NPC corp freely in empire space. And you should probably have a limit to how long you can sit in the starter corp.

The documentation is at the barrel end of a gun, sweet cheeks. The sandbox doesn't force anything. The players do.

See also: All of CCPs promotional material ever made.

You have some c*j*n*s with that 'barrel of a gun' near-threat at this point in time.

What a Tool.

AND as a respectable gay man, YOU will NEVER see my sweet cheeks.





Then WHY on Earth are you playing the game if you read the documentation ? WHINING about something that is not your cup of tea I guess..............

The documentation is at the barrel end of a gun, sweet cheeks. The sandbox doesn't force anything. The players do.

You are everything wrong with this game; a mewling sycophant who just wants to play dress up with space ships.

See also: All of CCPs promotional material ever made.

Not very bright, either, I see.

Which is why there are players here asking to change the configuration of the sandbox to in order to force behavior...

Eh?



While I'm sure "mewling sycophant" sounded cool sometime, I fail to see the flattery.

See also: The promotional material I remember said things along the line of: "Be anything you want", but then I'm old. Could you point me to something from CCP that says that if you don't want PvP you shouldn't buy their game?

... And you should probably have a limit to how long you can sit in the starter corp.

Not very bright, either, I see.

There are those who in the contrary would like to be able to join other NPC-Corporation except the starting and bloodline default corps.

I'm playing the game from a roleplaying perspective and would be mightily pissed if I would be forced into some strange default player corporation, thus ruining my storyline. When the day comes I will open my own player corporation, and when I get wardecced I will not leave it, but either bore my enemies to death, taunt them, or bloody their nose...

Please do not use the same broad brush for the whole playership - people are playing this game for different reasons.

faceless jabber.

Part of the story line of eve is that most of the NPC corps have been at peace for the last several years.

The documentation is at the barrel end of a gun, sweet cheeks. The sandbox doesn't force anything. The players do.

You are everything wrong with this game; a mewling sycophant who just wants to play dress up with space ships.

See also: All of CCPs promotional material ever made.

You realize by directly antagonizing and insulting other players you are breaking Uni rules. What ever happened to the treat others both inside and outside the Uni with respect thing. I think that is even the first rule on their rule page.

After a certain amount of SP earned or isk gained you tax rate goes to 35%.

Your tax dollars pay for safety.

This is kind of what I was thinking. It would be more of an incentive to get people out of NPC corps in general.

You sure do like the idea of controlling people and behavior modification. You might wanna run that by a therapist.

Up NPC corp tax to 50%, watch as lots of new corps are created, smile and war dec.

I like the idea more of faction oriented npc corps constantly being dec'd to each other. Same result, more lulz. Plus all of us npc's will see that hiding in a small corp is actually not as bad as the horror stories tell.

This is Eve online. If you're not willing to fight for what you have, including your right to exist, you're in the wrong game. Don't bring a feather duster to a knife fight.

I'm thinking all NPC corps in EVE except the starter corps should have wars with other corps in EVE, and players in one NPC corp could shoot war targets from another hostile NPC corp freely in empire space. And you should probably have a limit to how long you can sit in the starter corp.

Why?

You may find that this is already implemented - search for Factional Warfare.

FW allows standard corps and players with high standings to fight for each faction, I'm just talking about npc corp on npc corp. Corporate warfare, the next level.

As has often been pointed out by players (myself included) when describing EVE as a PVP centric game.

The solution to hiding from war in NPC corps? You decide

... I'm just talking about npc corp on npc corp. Corporate warfare, the next level.

I'm thinking all NPC corps in EVE except the starter corps should have wars with other corps in EVE, and players in one NPC corp could shoot war targets from another hostile NPC corp freely in empire space. And you should probably have a limit to how long you can sit in the starter corp.

I'm thinking all NPC corps in EVE except the starter corps should have wars with other corps in EVE, and players in one NPC corp could shoot war targets from another hostile NPC corp freely in empire space. And you should probably have a limit to how long you can sit in the starter corp.

Why is this a problem?

It's a sandbox, they have choices. Sounds like you just want easier targets........

EVE is...and always will be....a SANDBOX

Up NPC corp tax to 50%, watch as lots of new corps are created, smile and war dec.

Not far enough - cargo space, market transactions and mining/ice laser yield should all eat the nerf as well. Instead of the better solution - just removing them.

Not far enough - cargo space, market transactions and mining/ice laser yield should all eat the nerf as well. Instead of the better solution - just removing them.

The punishment is a higher % tax. This has already been rectified. The carebears have their sanctuary.

Why should they be removed entirely?

Your arguments lack validity.

Your basing your whole argument on the claim that being in an NPC corp is risk free.

Shut up faceless.

If people dont want to play you're way why should they be penalised for it.

And lets be honest the balance of power would be in your favour or you would not be asking for it.


Its like the majority of posters who want a change. the change always favours them.


If you want to grief new players and players that dont have much pvp SP then go and hang out in the newb systems and drop cans like everyone else does.


TL:DR you want more easy targets for your killboard

Now if more of my haters could also learn to see past your own nose, maybe you could see that the health of the community around you really does matter more than some little rewards or privileges you might reap at the long-term expense of everyone else.

What risks does an NPC corp member take in exchange for 100% guaranteed CONCORD protection

Shouldn't be throwing rocks in that glass house.

I wasn't aware NPC corps were taxed on market transactions, mining ore yield, datacore research, etc.

I wasn't aware that I was implying they were.

You can't make the argument of suicide ganking an NPC member... You can do that to anyone, any time anywhere in high sec, (And get concorded and lose your ship)

But they are immune from a war dec... Which everyone else isn't. The repercussions for staying after a certain period of time aren't negative enough to move on.

How about you let us play the game the way we want, and we let you play the game the way you want, rather than trying to force everyone into your style of play.

NPC Corps are find the way they are..

^
Because someone made it so you wont play the game for 2 weeks... I know plenty like that idea.

Underlying problem is also that you can't war dec for legit reasons... EG: Industry. We war decc'd a one man corp and kept it up to move his out of a market. Mining bots stay in NPC's to avoid being targeted. (yes yes you can gank them...but more efficient to war dec em and keep them out of business longer.)

There are legit reasons for dec's besides you thinking someone wants "lulz"

NPC corp is the same thing as a person NOT being in a corp.
THis is NOT a problem.

If the person doesn't want to deal with corporation Issues then why should they be required to be in a corp.

My point is, things are not divided as you suggest.

An NPC corp is in the game for a reason. its there to allow you to evade war Dec. In order to run Industry in high sec you need to be able to evade war dec. It's a light switch mechanic. Player corps allow you to engage in war dec. Both are mechanics. Both have a purpose. There are loads of small corps set up for industrial reasons, set up to avoid tax. It's a very target rich environment.

Sisohiv
CAS corp.
My Character. There for 6 years because she can mine and haul and not be war dec'ed. I'm not abusing anything. I risk the assets I want at risk. I don't risk the assets I don't want at risk. The mechanics in EVE are just fine.

If CCP want to allow everyone to be war dec? Sure, I say go for it. I aslo say make War Dec's a one month minimum. That way I can unsub my Industrial accounts while I am being griefed.

They are not there to avoid war dec's they were intentioned to help get new players on their feet, and avoid getting ganked right off the bat.
You can run industry in high sec in a corp matter of fact you just proved a point I made early. I want you out of business one method would be to compete market v. market another would be to war dec you and curtail your manufacture ability.

War dec's aren't just for luls or kids looking to grief. Originally they were intentioned to give people in high sec a way a legal way to fight without concord intervention.

So one guy running 22 accounts for mining I want him to move or help my profits...boom war dec him. I can't do that if he has all the accts in NPC. You avoid this mechanic while a real corp does not... Why should you be allowed if you're engaging on the market just the same?

Don't like it? Move... pay someone else pay me/us? I dont care about your tears.

Just throwing this out there: 10% tax is NOT a punishment for being in a NPC corp. It's not even substantial. If tax is supposed to be their punishment, it should be more like 25% or higher.

I have an idea, howabout NPC corps sometimes declare war on other NPC corps. How often they do it is at their discretion (and is based on some hidden variables and modifiers they are given), but a general trend would be that NPC corps with higher tax rates get into less wars. So if you get in one with only a 5% - 10% tax rate, they'd pretty much be constantly at war, often with several corps at once. But if you get in one with, say, a 40% tax rate, they would almost never go to war.

That gives the power to the players to choose their playstyle, while still forcing them to make critical decisions revolving around their risk vs. reward aspect.

So make them worse in every possible way than player corps?

Bingo.

As it stands they only have 1 advantage over a player corp and a multitude of disadvantages. If that remaining advantage was taken away, sure, you get people out, but until CCP locks people into corps during wardecs and prevents having alts in multiple corps, you may find wardecs, the only advantage NPC corps have, to be just as useless at effecting your desired results as they are now.

Yeah, just have 'rookie corps' for trial accounts, and after that you're a 'freelancer' who can be wardec'd just like anyone else. We can even leave a 'Freelancer' chat channel for Nova Fox.
Joining a corp should take an exponentially longer amount of time when done in rapid succession, having a 'cooldown' timer - fixing the corp/alliance hopping exploit. A group of determined hoppers will eventually find themselves dec'd and alone with no one to help them.

As it stands they only have 1 advantage over a player corp and a multitude of disadvantages. If that remaining advantage was taken away, sure, you get people out, but until CCP locks people into corps during wardecs and prevents having alts in multiple corps, you may find wardecs, the only advantage NPC corps have, to be just as useless at effecting your desired results as they are now.

I'm gonna repost my solution from another thread

Why do NPC corps have to have an advantage over player corps? They're a fallback option, not a bread and butter gameplay aspect. Also, I'm not suggesting they have their safety removed. I said quite clearly that it simply should come at a cost. I don't know how you missed that part.

Yeah, just have 'rookie corps' for trial accounts, and after that you're a 'freelancer' who can be wardec'd just like anyone else. We can even leave a 'Freelancer' chat channel for Nova Fox.
Joining a corp should take an exponentially longer amount of time when done in rapid succession, having a 'cooldown' timer - fixing the corp/alliance hopping exploit. A group of determined hoppers will eventually find themselves dec'd and alone with no one to help them.

I didn't miss anything.

The better question is how did you miss the cost that NPC corp life constantly imposes?

You missed that my idea wasn't removing the one benefit to being in an NPC corp.

I didn't miss it. I don't think it's a problem.

the idea you stated about having NPC corps wardec each other removes the benefit of immunity to wardec

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-cY1PJ0C-v3Y/Td0c5Q49ZMI/AAAAAAAAAAM/cOLTegTBVgw/s1600/facepalm-570x456.jpg

No, it doesn't.

I must ask: What is the definition you are using?

Player//Corp//Alliance A who is actively hunting you and trying to make your life miserable is unable to wardec you. You are now in control of how many wardecs you get, by choosing what tax rate NPC corp to join. At 50% you are completely immune to wardecs. That's how I define it.

Faceless?

Let us see who you obviously based internet ego avatar on judging by your name.

This guy *double thumbs up* and your sig further backs up who you are trying to impersonate. Yes, really not hard figure out. You are basicly hiding your real world identity by using a known celebrity and just altering it to suit your needs.

Can't get anymore faceless if you hide behind someone else's identity and using their own catch phrase no mater how you change the spelling or wording around . At least I don't pretend to be someone else

Slightly different than your original post I responded to stating higher tax corps would have a lower chance of going to war, but doesn't seem likely this system would get much use. Reasonable tax rates guarantee wars which you were trying to avoid and unreasonable ones just make corp hopping a better solution.

What do you mean it wouldn't get much use? Players wouldn't bother choosing a specific NPC corp because they don't care which one they join? Or they would stay out of NPC corps entirely? Either way I think you're wrong, but it's beside the point. According to the spirit of EVE Online, hiding in NPC corps isn't something that should be encouraged. It should be available but discouraged.

Reasonable tax rates guarantee wars which I was trying to avoid? I'm not trying to avoid wars. But that's beside the point. My solution offers players the power to choose.

Corp hopping is always the way to get away from wars. Hence Nicolo da'Vicenza's idea to give it a cooldown that goes up if you use it too much. But it's beside the point. I'm not discussing corp hopping. I'm discussing not having to corp hop in the first place.

It's beside the point, it's beside the point, it's beside the point. Please stop.

Besides one would think that in a sandbox conflict avoidance and adaptation, especially when at a disadvantage, would be a valid tactic.

Key phrase: AT A DISADVANTAGE

By all means. You can join the safe NPC corp.

and pay 50% tax. Heck, just join the 33% tax corp, and you'll usually not be at war. You can just not play (maybe play another game or go out of the house) when you are. I don't understand why you think a 25% tax rate is really a big deal. It's not like in the real world where you have bills to pay and you've got a 10% finance margin. In EVE, all of your money is liquid spending money. None of it gets put toward living expenses.

I'm thinking all NPC corps in EVE except the starter corps should have wars with other corps in EVE, and players in one NPC corp could shoot war targets from another hostile NPC corp freely in empire space. And you should probably have a limit to how long you can sit in the starter corp.

Because it's all connected, and people in NPC corps don't rate the ISK rewards that player corps get. You can play however the hell you want. You just can't play how you want and GET everything you want.

I could much better live with single characters being wardeccable than being forced into silly one-man corps.

Say, single characters could be wardecced, but if they are in a corp you had to wardecc the corp.

Another solution would be to remove the ability to leave a corporation while wardecced.

I guess there a dozens of better solutions than pressing one groups playstyle onto the masses.

To recap:

noob corps have 50% tax rate

noob corps are war-exempt and transfer-cooldown exempt

NPC corps would have varying tax rates and inversely-correlating wardec rates (between them and other NPC corps)

- it's easy to take a "vacation" from danger
- players who take less risk earn less reward

How is being a freelancer different from 1 man corps, or is that the point?
And the corp hopping suggestion seems like a good one. Doesn't handle alts in other corps, but then, what will?
I'm sure I'm in the minority here, but really I think avoiding war should only be slightly less trivial than declaring it, which can be quite cheap.

You dictators of other's reality (while insisting on your own freedom) make me laff. Ha! Ha! Trust no one. Recruitment by invitation only. Everyone's a spy....oh, and...just go out there and join a corp. What's the hold up?

Perkone roolz

It's a boost to PvP, yes EVE is a game almost entirely revolving around conflict and warfare, and hence PvP.

At the projected 500K ISK per member, it would cost you ~24 billion ISK to wardec Perkone for a week.

State War Academy would cost you ~112 billion a week.

Edit: You'd have to kill a lot of freighter alts to make that worth it.

Why is this a problem?

It's a sandbox, they have choices. Sounds like you just want easier targets........

IT IS A SANDBOX. GET OVER IT.

It's a boost to the Sandbox as it eliminates Themeparkish gameplay that doesn't belong in a game like this. ..No a Sandbox MMORPG does not mean there should be an option for Themepark style gameplay you ninnies.

I hate hi sec wars, but they are dodging the ability to be war dec'd as apposed to everyone else. And whats the draw back? Slightly higher tax rate, and can't set up a POS... Not a huge issue in high sec truth be told.

The NPC corps were created to help new players, and start out in safety where the sharks couldn't pounce and chase you relentlessly.

This safety should require more draw backs than it does. Honestly why should people get to avoid a mechanic that everyone else is susceptible to?
Thus you should pay for it. The almighty ISK SHALL BALANCE!

stuff...

IF SWA becomes war deccable I want corp controls, it would make kicking the gankbears in the teeth and off a cliff so much easier.

mo' stuff...

...hmm. Well since we are playing the "what if" game (there's almost no way CCP will make NPC corps dec'able in the near future) what kind of corp controls would you need? I'll tell you what you can't have:

- The ability to kick a member. Eveyone gets to join who wants to, and nubs are shoved in your corp anyway. That is part of what makes an NPC corp an NPC corp and that cannot change.

- The ability to charge a tax of any kind. Nobody is "in charge" of the NPC corp, because it's run by NPCs!

- The ability to set standings. These are determined by missions, rat killing, and the NPC corporate entity.

So is that OK? Can you still work with that Stellar Vix? What are you looking for... something to do with fleet control?

I guess I don't know enough about those who are active in NPC corps. I don't know what the limitations are right now...

Loads of unfair PvP in Null Sec.
That's why you are window shopping the NPC corps though, right?

...hmm. Well since we are playing the "what if" game (there's almost no way CCP will make NPC corps dec'able in the near future) what kind of corp controls would you need? I'll tell you what you can't have:

- The ability to kick a member. Eveyone gets to join who wants to, and nubs are shoved in your corp anyway. That is part of what makes an NPC corp an NPC corp and that cannot change.

- The ability to charge a tax of any kind. Nobody is "in charge" of the NPC corp, because it's run by NPCs!

- The ability to set standings. These are determined by missions, rat killing, and the NPC corporate entity.

So is that OK? Can you still work with that Stellar Vix? What are you looking for... something to do with fleet control?

I guess I don't know enough about those who are active in NPC corps. I don't know what the limitations are right now...

NPC corps are not really corps. I don't think anyone who has any ambition, creativity, sense of adventure, or blood lust should be in a NPC corp at all. Start your own corp at the very least to achieve limited goals. Join a big corp if you want to do big stuff or burn the universe to the ground. Join an NPC corp if you don't know wtf is going on and want to sit on the sidelines to see how people are playing the game.

Acceptable.

I want Corp Mail, Corp channel MOTD, Corp Issuable Medals, Corp Forum, Topic Powers, War Powers, Assignable and removable corp roles with thier limitations.

Then on a far stretch 1% of the taxes in corporate wallets only spendable into populating a "SWA Store" that issues free gear based on a time and rank metric to keep the war going.

-Vix

@Xorv - Considering there is no choice of which NPC corp one falls to, how do you reconcile personal standings with ones default corp? As I recall the race of a capsuleer is unrelated to the place in the NPC world they choose. Additionally, I'm not sure what you are referring to when you say "themeparkish play." Could you elaborate?

To answer your first question, It should be changed. Default NPC corp for a character should be based on standings or player choice. For example if it was based purely on standings it could work like this... A player character not in a player Corp, has their NPC Corp chosen for them based on their Standings. Highest Standing indicates Corp, and this can frequently change due to changes in standing. To determine the NPC Corp First the Highest Faction Standing, then the Highest Corp Standing within that Faction. Any changes take effect during downtime

To your second question what do I mean by "Themeparkish play". It's highly controlled and predictable gameplay that runs counter to the open world and undirected gameplay of the Sandbox. It's like when you go to a Themepark, you go on rides, there's an illusion of interaction, unpredictability, even danger, but in truth the outcome is consistently predictable

Some examples of typical Themepark type gameplay in MMORPGs:

Separates PvP from PvE, you advance and gain power in a linear path through PvE and then if the game includes it you can optionally duel with other players or go to Arenas or Battlegrounds to test your might vs other players. There's rarely any cost to loosing, and what happens in these PvP scenarios has no real effect of game world beyond

Linear advancement of your character, with a very clear path to follow

There's no real losers in the game, everyone that puts in the time can get from point A to B just like everyone else. Further players are firewalled from any possible negative impact of other player

Players have very little impact on one another or the game world. Content is created almost exclusively by the developers, (where in a Sandbox players are given the freedom and tools to create their own content

Examples of Themepark features and mechanics in EVE: CONCORD/Crimewatch, High Sec Missions and Incursions, Faction War (some will argue that it's not, but it's akin to a PvP/Lore flag, and outside of the market has no impact on the game world at large

Anyway I could ramble on about this for ages I'm sure you get the picture.

I'm thinking all Empire NPC corps are hostile to role-playing hostile Empires, players in one NPC corp could shoot war targets from another hostile NPC corp freely in low-sec empire space.