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Pirates - Time to give a voice! - Blockade runners using covop cloaks?

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Wet Ferret	Posted - 2008.10.29 18:32:00 - [31] I would personally prefer that they stay exactly as they are currently. But they are getting a significant agility nerf so... they need something else. People keep saying they're invulnerable when piloted properly, but this is only due to the MWD cloak trick and in that sense they are no more invulnerable than any other ship in EVE that can fit those mods. And if they really are invulnerable than how does this change actually change anything? What is your real complaint, honestly? But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started.
Waxau Mortis Angelus The Church.	Posted - 2008.10.29 18:46:00 - [32] Originally by: Wet Ferret I would personally prefer that they stay exactly as they are currently. But they are getting a significant agility nerf so... they need something else. People keep saying they're invulnerable when piloted properly, but this is only due to the MWD cloak trick and in that sense they are no more invulnerable than any other ship in EVE that can fit those mods. And if they really are invulnerable than how does this change actually change anything? What is your real complaint, honestly? The same issue i had when instas were removes, for warp to zero. Now, people can warp to zero, with no effort. Theres no 'preparation', or anything. combined with this, is the fact that i wont be able to detect them hauling with the scanner. All ill see is them, when they warp/jump. And even then, whats the use, when i cant even attempt to catch them. Cutting off logistics is a tactic many use, and in low sec, we cannot do that as you folks in 0.0 do. We cant cyno jam systems. We cant lay bubbles. Our only methods for disrupting logistics, for whatever reason, is by locking, and scrambling. With this change, we cant even detour logistics with our presence, as any average joe can survive. Atleast the horrid 'cloak mwd' trick takes practice to do properly.
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2008.10.29 18:48:00 - [33] Edited by: Bellum Eternus on 29/10/2008 18:51:53 Originally by: Waxau Edited by: Waxau on 29/10/2008 11:21:12 Right folks - Rarely make posts in C+P nowdays, but this one needed it. The new dev blog(aka Rollin Rollin Rollin) describes the change being put in, which will allow Blockade Runners to use covert ops cloaks. Reason: To use black ops portals, to 'boost' them in relation to their nerf with Hics. Im a black ops man, and i would sacrifice any current proposed boost, in order to stop this BR boost. As we all know, Cov Ops are impossible to catch in low sec, minus stupidity on their behalf...and some tactics (cloak+mwd trick) means that any ship is currently able to avoid any/all lowsec camps. I wont type my opinions out too much, as im sure many of you will have the same idea. But yes - Curious as to the actual opinions you all have. I already posted in the blog thread (and got flamed to hell for it) but I'll reiterate what I said there: this change is one of the worst ideas the dev team has had yet. All it does is remove risk and hold the hands of incompetent idiot carebears throughout Eve. It's disgusting. Edit: CCP seems totally unconcerned about us pirates. They look at things and go 'well, it's sorted for 0.0, it's fine.' They don't even consider how things might work in low sec, while under sentry fire. Or worse, they do consider it and go 'ahh, f#ck it.' And then there's the issue of high sec: suicide killing and empire wars. What then? You can't even use smartbombs. Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam. [Vid] I M M O R T A L
Vrabac Zawa's Fan Club	Posted - 2008.10.29 18:54:00 - [34] Originally by: VoiceInTheDesert HICs spoiled us pirates. This just makes low sec transporting possible again. Transport ships couldnt escape SB HICS and Blockade runners didnt tank well enough to be worth trying. This change is good. Proper blockade runner usually warps before your reflex says THERE HE IS GET HIM GET HIM! Getting it with HIC is far from easy. Of course HIC is the only single ship (not counting silly specialized fits that are useless for anything else) in game that stands a chance of getting one, but nothing more than that.
Leon vanUber	Posted - 2008.10.29 19:20:00 - [35] carebear online he we come! It's nothing personal. I just want your stuff, and more importantly the fun of the fight.
Katie Door the united	Posted - 2008.10.29 20:04:00 - [36] are u fracking kidding me, blockade runners with cov ops cloaks. they are almost un-catchable as they are, after the agility buff they got, and now make them being able to fit a cov ops cloak. lets just rename eve to carebear online while ur at it. at the moment the only way 2 catch a blockade runner is if they screw up (fit cargo expanders of summin stupid) gimme a fracking break, just make em un-targetable in stead, might aswell. and for what, so they can use jump bridges? make them even more of I-win button then they are already? might NOT buy the devs i run into at fanfest a beer for coming up with these stupid ideas geez.......
Dez Affinity Evocati.	Posted - 2008.10.29 20:10:00 - [37] Originally by: Bellum Eternus I already posted in the blog thread (and got flamed to hell for it) but I'll reiterate what I said there: this change is one of the worst ideas the dev team has had yet. Have you been reading their other ideas? Because this isn't even on the same level as the other stupid **** they are coming up with. This change will make BR invincible in Empire, no doubt, they aren't far off it now anyway, so the change isn't that big of a deal to me... _______________
Krasnij Okjabre Caldari the united	Posted - 2008.10.29 20:21:00 - [38] Candidate for 'Stupid Idea Of 2008' without doubt. I can't see any reason for doing this at all. Only way to catch the damn things already is to have either exceptional luck (on your part), remote SB's and the reactions of a cat, or extreme stupidity on the part of the pilot. I think CCP should just do away with weapons, scramblers, ECM... everything combat related and change the name of the game to 'Hello Mining Online' - A dull, forgiving universe where no one can get shot at. Lovely... FFS rethink this CCP... what are you trying to do to EVE? Kras.
Jogvan coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.10.29 20:27:00 - [39] Edited by: Jogvan on 29/10/2008 20:32:42 I like the change, the blockade runner has needed a boost since hictors came out, although almost everyone uses the mwd + cloak trick making them pretty impossible to catch. Now when they can fit cov ops cloak people might start fitting for less agility so on any good gatecamp that has been up for a while there is always a bunch of wrecks and corpses that could prevent them from cloaking, and thus getting a lock + point on them before they get into warp. Edit: I don't know why anyone would whine about this, they are pretty much impossible to catch already (unless the pilot is dumb), and they will nearly impossible to catch after patch (unless the pilot is dumb). The stupid pilots will still find some ways to get themselves killed
Tai Paktu Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2008.10.29 20:32:00 - [40] Originally by: Jogvan on any good gatecamp that has been up for a while there is always a bunch of wrecks and corpses that could prevent them from cloaking, and thus getting a lock + point on them before they get into warp. Not necessarily. Some camps, the gate needs to look clear for the scout alt to bring up the actual target. Above and beyond that fact, scooping loot and salvaging wrecks can also leave the gate clear of garbage. A BR that can align almost as fast as a frigate and use a cov-ops cloak doesn't seem all that great too me. Even with a triple sensor boosted Lach, you'll end up missing most. Once again, mechanics to help silly solo people escape well coordinated team players (not an endorsement for killing solo activities by any stretch). Not signed.
Darth Skorpius Crystalline INC	Posted - 2008.10.29 20:59:00 - [41] i for one welcome our new cloaked-warping blockade runner overlords (someone had to say it sooner or later)
Mika Meroko Minmatar Crayon Posting Inc	Posted - 2008.10.29 21:27:00 - [42] Edited by: Mika Meroko on 29/10/2008 21:29:47 could the low number of BR kills since HIC (notice the date of implimentation, before and after, the kill rates) because people dont fly them to low sec anymore since HIC got introduced? come on, you got to see, how a HIC camp with afew AWAKE inty/mwd frig pilot + remote boosted HIC WILL catch everything that passes by, even with the cloak + mwd trick? this change is just making it so there will be MORE blockade runners back in low/0.0... and besides, half the people I know already fit a cloak anyways XD only the new BR ers are caught....or careless.. but yeah, there WILL be more BR to catch after this change... hell, I myself stopped going into low sec with goods since HIC got introduced. REMEMBER, this change is to counter the UBER new gate camp techniques developed since afew patches ago... some of us who fly BR dont need it.. (since we already using cloak and agility builds) but yeah, now atleast they are giving us a ship bonus thats ACTUALLY useful... shrugs edit: and yes, you can catch them, I tackled afew when we were starving a POS in a seige.... you NEED to be awake, very fast reflex. and have alot of drones assigned to your ship to get 100% catch rates though... but even without drones, you can get them I sya... 3/4 of the time. Originally by: CCP Atropos I pod people because there's money to be made in selling tears.
Waxau Mortis Angelus The Church.	Posted - 2008.10.29 21:50:00 - [43] Originally by: Mika Meroko Edited by: Mika Meroko on 29/10/2008 21:29:47 could the low number of BR kills since HIC (notice the date of implimentation, before and after, the kill rates) because people dont fly them to low sec anymore since HIC got introduced? come on, you got to see, how a HIC camp with afew AWAKE inty/mwd frig pilot + remote boosted HIC WILL catch everything that passes by, even with the cloak + mwd trick? this change is just making it so there will be MORE blockade runners back in low/0.0... and besides, half the people I know already fit a cloak anyways XD only the new BR ers are caught....or careless.. but yeah, there WILL be more BR to catch after this change... hell, I myself stopped going into low sec with goods since HIC got introduced. REMEMBER, this change is to counter the UBER new gate camp techniques developed since afew patches ago... some of us who fly BR dont need it.. (since we already using cloak and agility builds) but yeah, now atleast they are giving us a ship bonus thats ACTUALLY useful... shrugs edit: and yes, you can catch them, I tackled afew when we were starving a POS in a seige.... you NEED to be awake, very fast reflex. and have alot of drones assigned to your ship to get 100% catch rates though... but even without drones, you can get them I sya... 3/4 of the time. 1. Dont ever post in that format again. Its the most irritating and pointless layout ive seen tbh. 2. Theyre easier to catch than before hics were introduced, yes. But that BALANCED it. The one or two that you were able to lock could actually be scrambled. Before that, you needed an hawk with a full rack of scrams, and remote boosted by a carrier, to even be close. Difference is, those who fly them with 'skill' cannot be caught. The cloakmwd trick is foolproff. You cant 'counter' it. The only chance of success you have at beating it, is relying on the user doing it wrong. And you're just emphasising my point with: Quote: only the new BR ers are caught....or careless.. With a covert ops cloak, the new or careless will be just as immune as those who arent as naeive. And.... Quote: edit: and yes, you can catch them, I tackled afew when we were starving a POS in a seige.... you NEED to be awake, very fast reflex. and have alot of drones assigned to your ship to get 100% catch rates though... but even without drones, you can get them I sya... 3/4 of the time. You realise that tackling them on a gate is not the issue. Its warping off gates, and similar. Anyone can lock down a BR if its at a pos. But i can tell you dont go to low sec often :P Esp if you think we can sit on gates, with drones assigned to people, and not have them popped by sentries.
Dirk Magnum Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2008.10.29 21:54:00 - [44] I own a Prowler and I'm against the addition of Covert Ops Cloaked BRs. The people making the point that the Covert Ops BR builds are going to be useful in Low Sec are neglecting to mention something. The same camps with HICs and Ceptors that can catch an agility build BR today will still catch Covert Ops BRs tomorrow. Why? Because both cloaks take the same amount of time to activate after a person exits a stargate. If you can get a lock going on an agility build you can get it just as easily on a Covert Ops build. This is just an unnecessary change, it's that simple. I really, really hope that CCP doesn't think the only problem with Low Sec industry is peoples' ability to move industrial ships around in those systems.
ArcDragon Caldari FUSION INDUSTRIES	Posted - 2008.10.29 22:01:00 - [45] I think the hipocracy of pirates is funny, let me highlight it: Carebear: You mean Pirate, you destroyed my battleship!! ASS!! Pirate: Less QQ, more Pew Pew, and your tears fuel my ship. Let me take this opportunity to say with all abandon, CCP does NOT sit down and say, "So, what can we give to pirates today?" Pirates are a niche job. Some of you feel it is more than that and perhaps to you, it certainly is. But do not justify your position on BR balancing based on what CCP did or did not do for piracy lately. DAMN man, really. They are making them WEAKER too, they are removing resists and other buffs. I feel that covops and jump portals are a more effective way of allowing these ships to achieve what they were meant to achieve in the first place. Fine with me! Hurry up already! Hey pirates: Less QQ and less BR too!!!! If it has a SAVE button...I'm not interested.
Nexus Kinnon Neo Spartans	Posted - 2008.10.29 22:03:00 - [46] Originally by: ArcDragon Less QQ, more Pew Pew please stop
Khraunus Amarr Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2008.10.29 22:26:00 - [47] Quit whining, this is a stealth pirate boost. Now your logistics pilot doesn't even need to scout, and I have a reason to train transport ships past I so I can tease gatecampers Most importantly, how are you supposed to tell whether this is part of my post or my signature?
Jogvan coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.10.29 22:32:00 - [48] Originally by: Dirk Magnum The same camps with HICs and Ceptors that can catch an agility build BR today will still catch Covert Ops BRs tomorrow. Why? Because both cloaks take the same amount of time to activate after a person exits a stargate. Indeed, the only thing this really has any effect on is in 0.0 where they will be more useful now. If people should complain/whine about anything it should be the passive tank and +2 warp core strength of the DST. It's clearly a anti-suicide gank change, which is almost impossible already after the Concord changes.
Mika Meroko Minmatar Crayon Posting Inc	Posted - 2008.10.29 22:37:00 - [49] Originally by: Waxau 1. Dont ever post in that format again. Its the most irritating and pointless layout ive seen tbh. 2. Theyre easier to catch than before hics were introduced, yes. But that BALANCED it. The one or two that you were able to lock could actually be scrambled. Before that, you needed an hawk with a full rack of scrams, and remote boosted by a carrier, to even be close. Difference is, those who fly them with 'skill' cannot be caught. The cloakmwd trick is foolproff. You cant 'counter' it. The only chance of success you have at beating it, is relying on the user doing it wrong. And you're just emphasising my point with: Quote: only the new BR ers are caught....or careless.. With a covert ops cloak, the new or careless will be just as immune as those who arent as naeive. And.... Quote: edit: and yes, you can catch them, I tackled afew when we were starving a POS in a seige.... you NEED to be awake, very fast reflex. and have alot of drones assigned to your ship to get 100% catch rates though... but even without drones, you can get them I sya... 3/4 of the time. You realise that tackling them on a gate is not the issue. Its warping off gates, and similar. Anyone can lock down a BR if its at a pos. But i can tell you dont go to low sec often :P Esp if you think we can sit on gates, with drones assigned to people, and not have them popped by sentries. -meh, this format just makes is easier to read ... it is the opposite of wall of text. people complain about the wall of text more. and frankly, you are the 1st person to have problem with it. -2nd of all, it was a siege...the situation I was talking about is: Enemy deathstar in low sec system with a moon we want, we LOCKDOWN the gates and starving the POS... it would be CRAZY for us to camp AT the deathstar since our capitals were depleted after engaging their cap fleet... so yes, it was keeping them AWAY from the pos.. from the gates... is DOABLE... granted, you have to work HARD.... and it cost alot of drones... since we have to dock up and replace them after we kill a ship. (yes, we had to WORK for the kills) -3rd. again a dedicated group of camper can over-come the cloak and mwd trick...again, you need fast intys with a drone cloud to uncloak and bump...(and replacing the tacklers once you kill something...yes, I know is alot of work.) no matter what, they do show up on overview/screen for 1 sec when they gate uncloak ... thats when your caffine hyped tacklers should do a fly in that direction. sure, is NOT guranteed. especially in most lazy camps with slow reflexes. but all it takes is a few of the good camps to make the pilot (remember, unless they are pies themselves, they are probley risk adverse)... to say: "never again." remember the pyramid of pred and prey??? too much towards the pred (in fact, is best if its loopsided towards prey) and there will not be any prey left for the pred... but think about it this way: if they dont have a good chance of getting though.. they wont come back. the ones with worthwhile stuff anyways. it is the whole Warp to zero thing again... in the end, it will bring MORE people(in this case, ship loaded with goodies) into low sec. more ships to pirate... which is a GOOD thing. there is some ways.. (drone cloud helps.. especially they bump AND reveal... and I am sure theres some other method I do not know of.) and yeah, if it were another class of ships. then I would be against it.. but for ** sake, we are talking about blockade runners here... XD granted, I do agree with you that the effort it takes to catch them is ALOT..(for the good ones that has an ideal what they should be doing) but yeah, if they dont have a good chance of getting though, they wont come back. Originally by:** CCP Atropos I pod people because there's money to be made in selling tears.
Crazy Tasty Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2008.10.30 04:46:00 - [50] Quote: they are pretty much impossible to catch already (unless the pilot is dumb), and they will nearly impossible to catch after patch (unless the pilot is dumb). The stupid pilots will still find some ways to get themselves killed This is pretty much the truth. However, I want my PvP ships to be guaranteed to get out of 90% of any situation to. CCP? Short of a 0.0 bubble camp with some competent de-cloakers (or, as stated, someone stupid) the new BR will be be untouchable. ------ // This is by design. When a ship jumps through a gate, it clears all aggression. // - BH ******** Pew on gate, if it gets hot, jump through and Ctrl-Q. Game mechanic endorsed by CCP.
Siigari Kitawa Gallente The Aduro Protocol	Posted - 2008.10.30 06:11:00 - [51] FIX CLOAK-MWD-ALIGN-WARP AND STOP TIPTOEING AROUND THE REAL PROBLEM >=\| Damn it. I needed to do that. www.siigarikitawa.com
Antoine Lefevre Genos Occidere Heretic Nation	Posted - 2008.10.30 06:33:00 - [52] This one time after the Concord buff announcement I saw a cool post about devs still having a vision on EvE being a harsh world. And I believed them.
Inara Subaka Caldari the united	Posted - 2008.10.30 06:49:00 - [53] I'm still trying to figure out how it's supposed to be possible to catch a ship that can warp cloaked... As a HIC pilot, I can say it's already a pain in the ass to catch them as it is (even without mwd+cloak trick) because of their shuttle like agility. It's at least possible to catch them as it is right now, if they can put on the Cov-Ops cloak, it's going to be impossible (sans the few stupid pilots) to catch them. Lowsec trade routes won't see anything but these things if this proposed change happens. Personally, if they're willing to spend the ISK and use the teamwork to get a black ops portal opened... while it does mean they can jump right past me, it also means they had to work for it (and teamwork at that). Allowing a Cov-Ops cloak to be used is a simple "I don't get caught in lowsec" button. In 0.0, you might get lucky with an inty using drones assigned and find them inside a bubble, but in lowsec they would be untouchable. And has anyone heard, if they get the Cov-Ops cloak, are they going to get a nerf on agility, or do they get to warp like a shuttle... while cloaked?
Cloora APEX Unlimited APEX Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.10.30 08:58:00 - [54] Has anyone actually flew them on Sisi yet before they complained? They nerfed the agility on them so they warp out more like a Dessie then a Inty and they removed the +2 WCS bonus. CCP did a damn good job with this new change.
Borini	Posted - 2008.10.30 09:38:00 - [55] the best part about it being that with full expansion the BR can cary a large tower. With the black ops being adjusted in the near future so that they can jump into cyno jammed systems it will be very good for dynamics in 0.0 :)
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2008.10.30 10:42:00 - [56] Originally by: Inara Subaka I'm still trying to figure out how it's supposed to be possible to catch a ship that can warp cloaked... As a HIC pilot, I can say it's already a pain in the ass to catch them as it is (even without mwd+cloak trick) because of their shuttle like agility. It's at least possible to catch them as it is right now, if they can put on the Cov-Ops cloak, it's going to be impossible (sans the few stupid pilots) to catch them. Lowsec trade routes won't see anything but these things if this proposed change happens. Personally, if they're willing to spend the ISK and use the teamwork to get a black ops portal opened... while it does mean they can jump right past me, it also means they had to work for it (and teamwork at that). Allowing a Cov-Ops cloak to be used is a simple "I don't get caught in lowsec" button. In 0.0, you might get lucky with an inty using drones assigned and find them inside a bubble, but in lowsec they would be untouchable. And has anyone heard, if they get the Cov-Ops cloak, are they going to get a nerf on agility, or do they get to warp like a shuttle... while cloaked? Catching them won't be any different than it is now. You either start targeting them before the cloak kicks in or they get away... I am still not seeing how that is going to change at all. It's still just going to come down to lag or critical pilot error. If you can prevent them from cloaking after the proposed changes you will have a tremendous advantage, however. They've already had an indirect nerf to agility in the form of complete removal of any kind of mass reduction modules / rigs. They align much, much slower already due only to this. The only part of this change that I can see as a buff is the black ops portal compatibility. The rest is either a flat out nerf (lower agility, removal of warp strength bonus) or exactly the same as it is today in function. But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started.
Will Barton NorCorp Security Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.30 11:14:00 - [57] Well...when the agility nerf hits they had to do something with the BR. On test server now it was alligning as fast as a normal itty3/4. And thats NOT viable. But giving it a covops cloak? cmon... its nice that they seriously want it to have a role it works perfectly at, but that is a tad op imo
Neddy Fox Gallente Paxton Industries	Posted - 2008.10.30 12:12:00 - [58] Align time with 3 x inertia, 2 x polycarbs is about 3.5 seconds, so worse then tranqility (2.8 seconds). But still, only 3.5 seconds to uncloak the BR ßnd lock him...
Kyoko Sakoda Caldari Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.10.30 13:47:00 - [59] Blockade runner changes are fine. Great, actually. They are already terribly hard to catch in lowsec with a proper pilot -- the changes just make them better in 0.0. I know both my pirate and my carebear side will be happy.
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.10.30 14:29:00 - [60] SUPPORT THE BLOCKADE RUNNER Come on guys, I need your support. Lets make this ship invulnerable. SKUNK Originally by: CCP Navigator People who think I am joking or talking big are going to understand very quickly that there will be order

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