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Malmorigan
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Posted - 2008.11.08 20:48:00 -
[1]
Sitting around the Dev table gets boring day after day, so lets screw the paying players and further nerf their very long trained and hard earned skills, ships and mods that cost sooo damn much isk, so we can not be bored any longer and also justify to our bosses why they have to keep paying us! Afterall, Nerfing the players to death is still work right?
CCP - you dudes need to back off changing the rules in mid stream and leave off screwing and tweaking the things we as PAYING CLIENTS have the right to assume are a given. 
WTF are you guys thinking? Leveling the playing field, FFS!? We dont want the damn thing leveled - what the hell do we train and train for if not for the pure sake of gaining the advantage in warfare - this is exactly what keeps the game's momentum going - this equilibrium you seek removes the individuals advantage by percentages too gross to accept, and places the balance in younger, less or differently trained players hands. Long drawn out fights are a server nightmare - not a help. Nor do we want to sacrifice our speed or missle damage abilities we have worked so bloody hard and long to achieve to level some playing field that exists only in your warped minds! To satisfy your current whims? Whats next? We eventually get nerfed to a reduction in efficiency to where we're all better served remaining in our respective stations and are reduced to name calling because that has greater effect than our ships, mods and weps?
As a career combat Marine, I can tell you right now there is no such thing as a fricking level playing field! ANY stinking advantage or edge I can gain over my enemy will be embraced and utilised to best effect. You pride yourselves in a congratulatory manner on how Real Life-like you have modeled EVE? Well it seems to us you are being nothing more than bored hipocritical individuals who's sole purpose in life is to screw up what could have been a fantastic game. Dont kid yurselves buckos - there are better out there coming up, as you ruin the quality of EVE, and pretty soon, you will notice less and less hate blogs and petitions, and more and more accounts mysteriously cancelling when folks here finally have had enough of your constant meddling with OUR gaming abilities, etc.
LEAVE THE DAMN THINGS ALONE! If we want to outrun some asshats missles or bullets, and can - more power to us - eventually said asshat will learn to train his or her skills to make up that difference - we dont require you devs to do a bleeding thing other than to ensure the game runs smooth as is and that we are enjoying ourselves to the maximum possible! Thats all we want from you! We will take it from there and make our own decisions about what to fly, how fast, and what to shoot. I promise that if I shoot someone and think he is taking DPS at a higher rate than what I think is fair to him or her, I will turn off a wep to "level the playing field"! Or if I am flying faster than he or she can manage to hit me, I will stop my ship and let them catch up a wee bit before continuing to STAY FRICKIN ALIVE BY TRYING TO OUT MANUVER THEIR WEPS BEFORE THEY FRIGGING KILL MY ASS! Sound fair enuf?
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Roemy Schneider
BINFORD
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Posted - 2008.11.08 21:09:00 -
[2]
gaining advantage in warfare through excessive skilling?
- command ships
well, and ofc the specialized falcon
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putting the gist back into logistics |
Crackzilla
The Shadow Order
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Posted - 2008.11.08 21:50:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Malmorigan
eventually said asshat will learn to train his or her skills to make up that difference
When skills are *required* then the game is dead.
Short fights get boring. Warp in. Get shot. No clue how or why. No time to correct mistakes or learn. People stop trying to pvp.
If I can't take someone on trial and a few days have them be somewhat useful then we're in a serious position. Skill points shouldn't give god mode, only an advantage. Ultimately brains and tactics should win.
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Dikanal
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Posted - 2008.11.08 22:19:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Dikanal on 08/11/2008 22:18:47
The messed up thing is the latest round of nerfs has made SP even more essential, you need maxed missile support skills now for your missiles to begin to work correctly and you need maxed gunnery support skills for your guns to work as intended.
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Khamal Jolstien
Caldari
Product Number 3
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Posted - 2008.11.08 22:20:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Crackzilla
Originally by: Malmorigan
eventually said asshat will learn to train his or her skills to make up that difference
When skills are *required* then the game is dead.
Short fights get boring. Warp in. Get shot. No clue how or why. No time to correct mistakes or learn. People stop trying to pvp.
If I can't take someone on trial and a few days have them be somewhat useful then we're in a serious position. Skill points shouldn't give god mode, only an advantage. Ultimately brains and tactics should win.
Ah but on TQ you can do just that. I have brought friends in before, and in a short time they're able to be useful in combat. Not quite so much anymore.
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Crackzilla
The Shadow Order
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Posted - 2008.11.08 22:32:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Dikanal
The messed up thing is the latest round of nerfs has made SP even more essential, you need maxed missile support skills
It isn't all about dps. A new player isn't likely to add much in the way of dps to being with. They likely couldn't tackle very well as larger ships would tear up frigs. And a trial account couldn't touch a nano except sheer luck.
Now a new character can live longer and be more successful in a small ship. Now there is more of a reason to stay in small ships.
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Terror Rising
Death Of Fallen Angels
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Posted - 2008.11.08 23:06:00 -
[7]
Stop whining ... just quit ...
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Narfas Deteis
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Posted - 2008.11.08 23:11:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Crackzilla
It isn't all about dps. A new player isn't likely to add much in the way of dps to being with. They likely couldn't tackle very well as larger ships would tear up frigs. And a trial account couldn't touch a nano except sheer luck.
Now a new character can live longer and be more successful in a small ship. Now there is more of a reason to stay in small ships.
Of course. And this is good.
But there's another thing. Players have plans. They skill for something. And then, after 6 months there's another revolution (patch, nerf, whatever) and they have to put their plans to thrash and begin almost from scratch. That's not just "adjusting rules" of game. And it doesn't seem to be fair.
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Crackzilla
The Shadow Order
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Posted - 2008.11.08 23:42:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Narfas Deteis
Players have plans. They skill for something. And then, after 6 months there's another revolution (patch, nerf, whatever) and they have to put their plans to thrash and begin almost from scratch. That's not just "adjusting rules" of game. And it doesn't seem to be fair.
This is why folks are told to not train for the flavor of the month. Why they're told to focus on support skills rather than chasing a moving fantasy.
The flip side is that *not* nerfing then punishes those that didn't go after the flavor of the month. If we say that it isn't fair to ruin the plans of players chasing the dragon then it makes sense for *everyone* to get the flavor of the month. In this way an imbalance cannot be corrected as it would offend someone.
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GateScout
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Posted - 2008.11.08 23:59:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Malmorigan
CCP - you dudes need to back off changing the rules in mid stream and leave off screwing and tweaking the things we as PAYING CLIENTS have the right to assume are a given.
WTF are you guys thinking? Leveling the playing field, FFS!? We dont want the damn thing leveled
<snip>
While I don't like the changes any more than you do....you forget that this is a business...not "your" game. CCP will probably keep more players around longer if they make it easier to survive in 0.0 with small, cheaper ships by players that require less SP.
You should probably take your own advice, "asshat will learn to train his or her skills to make up that difference."
Adapt or die. *****ing about it does noting....as witnessed by the legions of posts ignored by CCP....get used to it.
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rValdez5987
Amarr
32nd Amarrian Imperial Navy Regiment.
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Posted - 2008.11.09 01:24:00 -
[11]
Edited by: rValdez5987 on 09/11/2008 01:25:19
Originally by: GateScout
Originally by: Malmorigan
CCP - you dudes need to back off changing the rules in mid stream and leave off screwing and tweaking the things we as PAYING CLIENTS have the right to assume are a given.
WTF are you guys thinking? Leveling the playing field, FFS!? We dont want the damn thing leveled
<snip>
While I don't like the changes any more than you do....you forget that this is a business...not "your" game. CCP will probably keep more players around longer if they make it easier to survive in 0.0 with small, cheaper ships by players that require less SP.
You should probably take your own advice, "asshat will learn to train his or her skills to make up that difference."
Adapt or die. *****ing about it does noting....as witnessed by the legions of posts ignored by CCP....get used to it.
the legions of posts you speak of are by loud whining anti nano nerf f*******. I know of many players that left due to the nano issue, that are now back. I have also successfully been drawing people to the game since hearing of whats coming in summer and winter 2009, including women.
Overall the game is becoming a bit more mainstream while still maintaining its harsh atmosphere, deep story, and deep combat complexity.
If you think that nano is dead, then you arent attempting to nano properly. If anything, nano has been improved. Sure you can't outrun anything that shoots at you at gamebreaking speeds, but you can use tactics and your brain to outrun large ships, while killing the small ships.
Then again nano f*** dont have brains and dont have any tactics other then mwd on/point/fire and -runaway-
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
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Posted - 2008.11.09 01:45:00 -
[12]
Originally by: GateScout
CCP will probably keep more players around longer if they make it easier to survive in 0.0 with small, cheaper ships by players that require less SP.
What this patch does not do.
Seriously. Get this. I know it's a epic concept to swallow and that it's hard and whatever, but really:
1v1 stats != gang on gang performance
Which is particularly and specifically relevant in 0.0, where solo is far less common then low-sec.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Cpt Branko
Surge.
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Posted - 2008.11.09 01:47:00 -
[13]
Originally by: rValdez5987
the legions of posts you speak of are by loud whining anti nano nerf f*******.
You must be a braindead jerk if you think that people who fly nanoships are the majority of the folks complaining. Take a look around.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Gaelenus
Gallente
Society of the Crimson Flame
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Posted - 2008.11.09 02:52:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Originally by: rValdez5987
the legions of posts you speak of are by loud whining anti nano nerf f*******.
You must be a braindead jerk if you think that people who fly nanoships are the majority of the folks complaining. Take a look around.
QFT
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Wedgetail
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Posted - 2008.11.09 08:00:00 -
[15]
I'm unsure why ccp have made the changes to the system they had in place but what I can see happening is something I've seen happen in many past patches;
combat is becoming more and more levelled as no doubt is ccp's intention but with such 'levvelling' the excitement of pvp is being lost, as has already been posted long fights are interesting but the short ones are the more intense this patch is largely inhibiting the abilities of larger vessels to attack the already near impossible to hit frigates. Large weaponry does not have the capability to strike small ships at the point ranges that much of the pvp that takes place in eve.
with the recent changes to pvp in eve i'm worried that small ship pilots will not need to excercise caution when attacking larger (and previously) dangerous ships, with the nerfing to large missiles and the reduction of the effectiveness of drones, the little counters to smaller groups of ships that heavier vessels had are no longer effective, basically all i see this patch doing is making it harder for larger ships to effectively combat smaller ones when smaller ships already had a tonne of advantages in combat to begin with.
my question at this stage is, is it CCP's intention to force EVE pvp into an exclusively frigate/cruiser arena? if patches like this continue to be released there will be no need for small fast vessels to excersise caution when attacking larger targets and making it much more difficult for the already disadvantaged larger craft to defend itself.
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Jack Wolfslayer
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Posted - 2008.11.09 08:46:00 -
[16]
Wedgetail is correct, and naysayers should take a real hard look at what it is he describes - its coming down the wire, and therefore regardless of whether or not EVE is a buisness which grants CCP unlimited rights to "adjust" the playing field thru nerfing what we train for and use to the best effect we can in an already increasingly difficult arena, it's time for players to STFU with all the name calling and arguing amongst ourselves over semantics and techo garbage, and band together with a massive signed petition to the CCP home site web page, or something among those lines - you get the drift - and finally MAKE CCP hear us once and for all. There are plenty of beneficial ways other than reducing our abilities, to make eve a better game. If the Dev's are any good and worth their paychecks, they can surely come up with things that players actually want and like. If nothing else, rather than creating these patches, opening SISI and inviting us to go in and test for bugs, ignoring our distaste at what we find there, and basically ramming these patches down our throats or up our backsides, without heeding player input, perhaps a thing as simple as preposing a player-wide vote, and letting us decide the final outcome would not be so bad?
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Khamal Jolstien
Caldari
Product Number 3
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Posted - 2008.11.09 09:45:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Originally by: rValdez5987
the legions of posts you speak of are by loud whining anti nano nerf f*******.
You must be a braindead jerk if you think that people who fly nanoships are the majority of the folks complaining. Take a look around.
Agreed. I want nanos nerfed, but not like this.
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Murina
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.11.09 09:50:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Khamal Jolstien
Agreed. I want nanos nerfed, but not like this.
What you thought they would just slow stuff down for your DPS spam?....
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eliminator2
Gallente
Heretic Army
Heretic Nation
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Posted - 2008.11.09 12:03:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Murina
Edited by: Murina on 09/11/2008 10:11:02
Originally by: Khamal Jolstien
Agreed. I want nanos nerfed, but not like this.
What you thought they would just slow stuff down for your DPS spam?....
Eve is a worse game as a whole for this entire nerf, picking out a single issue and saying it should be the only thing changed is stupid and selfish.
very very true i would of thought everyone new this by now about CCP if you say something needs nerfing and CCP says yes we will do it that means yes we will do it and allso nerf the rest of stuff. so we can actually blame the people that moaned about speed and it needs nerf because of them we have lost most roles in ships
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Braenca
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Posted - 2008.11.09 12:28:00 -
[20]
Here's an idea for game balance.
Everyone in an Ibis.
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Reptar Dragon
THE FINAL STAND
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Posted - 2008.11.09 14:20:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Khamal Jolstien
Originally by: Crackzilla
Originally by: Malmorigan
eventually said asshat will learn to train his or her skills to make up that difference
When skills are *required* then the game is dead.
Short fights get boring. Warp in. Get shot. No clue how or why. No time to correct mistakes or learn. People stop trying to pvp.
If I can't take someone on trial and a few days have them be somewhat useful then we're in a serious position. Skill points shouldn't give god mode, only an advantage. Ultimately brains and tactics should win.
Ah but on TQ you can do just that. I have brought friends in before, and in a short time they're able to be useful in combat. Not quite so much anymore.
Why do you assume that characters with low-sp will always fight maxed out characters? If a character has bad skills, you can bet they know it. That means they won't dive head first into a 1v1 BS fight with tech 1 small turrets.
There's a different part of this game where new players have fun too, higher SP players are just a bit jaded to that part.
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Darkdood
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Posted - 2008.11.09 14:42:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Terror Rising
Stop whining ... just quit ...
and give us your stuff...:P
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Dragonwell
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Posted - 2008.11.09 21:32:00 -
[23]
Joe the Achura: I have Caldari Titan V!
--
CCP: We need to spread the skills around...
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Max Essen
Gallente
Serenity Engineering and Transport Company
Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2008.11.10 02:21:00 -
[24]
I found the "Flavor of the month" analogy fairly accurate.
I have 3 toons, all Gallente and only fly Gallente (or ORE).
Then the Myrmagon nerf, then the drone nerf, then blaster nerf, now my medium drones and blasters getting another underhanded sack-tap. 
But, guess what, I will just keep training pure Gallente and await the changes, be they boost or nerf, that will make Gallente more useful.
I guess what I am trying to say is, the nerf-bat and boost-boot will cycle through all races, weapons etc with time.
After all, it is one heck of a fun game. 
Real Men Structure-Tank
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Murina
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.11.10 11:00:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Max Essen
I found the "Flavor of the month" analogy fairly accurate.
I have 3 toons, all Gallente and only fly Gallente (or ORE).
Then the Myrmagon nerf, then the drone nerf, then blaster nerf, now my medium drones and blasters getting another underhanded sack-tap.
But, guess what, I will just keep training pure Gallente and await the changes, be they boost or nerf, that will make Gallente more useful.
I guess what I am trying to say is, the nerf-bat and boost-boot will cycle through all races, weapons etc with time.
After all, it is one heck of a fun game.
Gallente are very good to train due to the cross training ability to use some caldari ships well, along with the fact that as a gunnery race they have extra options as all the tertiary gunnery skills apply to the other gunnery races and if you wanna cross train to other races all you need are the ship and gun skills alone.
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McFly
C0LDFIRE
RUDE Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.10 11:10:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Dragonwell
Joe the Achura: I have Caldari Titan V!
--
CCP: We need to spread the skills around...
lolz
but anyway, I agree this nerf is going to hit hard, but eve will go one, someone out there will figure out something that works... sadly blasters I think are dead, especially large ones... drones are taking a hit, so I dunno where gallente should turn.
I fly all four races of ships, I've been here for sometime. I think that the ships that survive the nerf best are going to be the recons. CCP wants less 1v1 and more gang warfare (IE: Blobbing) small gangs will only be successful if they pack ew. Becuase like it or not, with the small ship boost u need a rapier/huginn there to target paint and web the f*@^ out of them to kill the little bastards. Big Ship with range well there's when the arazu pilot comes into play with damps. Ship that just wont die becuase he's tanking like mad time for the pilgrim to warm up the nos/neut combo.. and falcon...nuff said...
Anyway the point is that, once someone comes up with a fitting post patch that these ships dont turn to dust from a few volley's then there's your new flavor of the month.
Pilgrim can still solo, Arazu maybe if it can damp enough to stay alive, Rapier might be able to, falcon never really could... Just going to have to choose the targets u engage... and if u engage ur f&^@'d if u dont kill the target and cloak back up. No more MWDing off...
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
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Posted - 2008.11.10 12:26:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 10/11/2008 12:28:20
Originally by: Max Essen
Then the Myrmagon nerf
Given I am switching to the Myrmidon nowdays, I have to say that the 125m3 dronebay Myrmidon, if it had room for a pack of lights, would be by far the most awesome BC of them all. Like, total facemelting ****train machine, even though it has a useless bonus.
If they did keep 5x Ogre IIs on the Myrmidon, it would be the only BC capable of throwing about 1+K DPS (since a Myrmidon now CAN throw 800-ish DPS at you, but with horribly gimped post patch medium blasters so it's not a good idea).
The only reason why the Myrmidon is not very good is because people insist on using a very useless bonus on the ship, rather then unleashing its full potential.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
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