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hulk cargohold reballanceing - urgent

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Neill Kerry	Posted - 2008.11.09 12:14:00 - [1] hulk has to be reballanced with new technologys available, whats new? now we have mining upgrades II giving 9% yield bonus(2x in low slots) Orca now provides 15% yield bonus, aprox -25% cycle reduction and aporx same % to laser range Mining drone rigs that pushes harvesting drones to provide over 500m3 a minute my suggestion and rather need or even logic step is to reballance hulks cargohold! why? hulk now yields over 8000m3 a cycle thus we need to get 10000m3 cargohold on hulk as soon as possible just to cover the yield base a cycle hope this will be taken into consider, its not some silly idea just cose i would like to have that cargohold but rather something that needs to be ballanced with new technologys we have been given CCP rulez :)
Neill Kerry	Posted - 2008.11.09 12:16:00 - [2] and yes as u have figured, im passionate miner :)) love to drill some rocks
Clansworth Burning Sky Labs Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2008.11.09 12:32:00 - [3] ummm... you stated in your argument that part of the reason the Hulk needs more cargo is because of the orca's bonus, but failed to realize that the orca IS the hulk's cargo buff. POS Personal Storage
Neill Kerry	Posted - 2008.11.09 12:34:00 - [4] just another thought, for now u can forrget bout haveing extra crystals in cargohold and do your thing, mining cycle by cycle
Neill Kerry	Posted - 2008.11.09 12:36:00 - [5] Originally by: Clansworth ummm... you stated in your argument that part of the reason the Hulk needs more cargo is because of the orca's bonus, but failed to realize that the orca IS the hulk's cargo buff. ------------------------------ yes but my bigger concern is that hulk will not be able to support its yield in cargohold sense in a way activating all of its strip miners at once and not louseing ore unrecoverbly
Sir Substance Minmatar MagiTech Alliance Inc. MagiTech Corp	Posted - 2008.11.09 13:01:00 - [6] Originally by: Clansworth ummm... you stated in your argument that part of the reason the Hulk needs more cargo is because of the orca's bonus, but failed to realize that the orca IS the hulk's cargo buff. you didnt read the OP, and i will assume you have never mined in your life. the yield is LARGER THEN THE HULKS HOLD. that means you are losing ore per cycle. the orca doesn't get it till after a cycle. personally, i think OP's stats are a shade out of whack, but i could be wrong. - PvPers always say "GB2WoW". the message is that EVE is hard, and people just need to deal with it. wasn't it funny how when nano's started making it hard for them, that all went out the window?
Dariah Stardweller	Posted - 2008.11.09 13:56:00 - [7] How do you get a hulk to put out 8000 m3 a cycle?? I want some of that!!
Kobushi OCForums	Posted - 2008.11.09 14:31:00 - [8] but consider this you have an orca, your are most likely to be in highsec, you can jetcan and have the orca with a cargohold (30,000m3 base capacity max expandable to around 90,000m3+) that should cover a few hulk cycles...why not have it at the belt and not offgrid at some random location.
Neill Kerry	Posted - 2008.11.09 16:16:00 - [9] yes but u see its bout when u have both 5% implants for yield, all lvl5 yield effect skills, 2x mining upgade t2, 2x drone rig, 5 harvesting drones and!!! on top of that u get orca pilot with mining foreman lvl5 (10%) and mindlink hardwiring that make mining foreman 15% effective to yield bonus, then u got -25% miner cycle reduction, if u good in mining and know how u position yourself it really punches the hulk cargohold with drones and hulk yield, and u can forget about takeing few spare crystals in carghold. this ofc doesnt effects half trained/focused miners but it does those fully into mining like me wich do mining as profession primarly.
Dyaven Interstellar Mining and Research	Posted - 2008.11.09 16:27:00 - [10] Originally by: Kobushi but consider this you have an orca, your are most likely to be in highsec, you can jetcan and have the orca with a cargohold (30,000m3 base capacity max expandable to around 90,000m3+) that should cover a few hulk cycles...why not have it at the belt and not offgrid at some random location. What she's saying is that one cycle will not fit in the Hulk's cargohold. Doesn't matter how big the Orca's cargohold is because you can't mine directly to it.
Spleasant Suprise	Posted - 2008.11.09 17:12:00 - [11] its simple... f1.... wait a minute. f2.... wait a minute. f3.... wait a minute and start scooping ore. just because it takes a an extra minute or two to set up doesnt mean you need to rebalance a ship. You'll simply have to become more aware of whats going on.
Kittamaru Gallente Democracy of Klingon Brothers Utterly Harmless	Posted - 2008.11.09 17:16:00 - [12] You shouldn't have to do that anyway... I think the Orca needs another boost - give hulks a 50% increase to cargo capacity
Thorson Wiles Minmatar M3 Co-Op	Posted - 2008.11.09 17:19:00 - [13] Easy solution, stagger your harvesters, start one then wait 1/3 of a regular cycle, start the second, wait another third, and start the last. Jetison when you need to. With rocks, I manually cycle the lasers every minute anyway so I'm not trying to get ore from an asteroid that isn't really there any more. (Unless you want it to be very easy, in which case you drop one of the upgrades for an expander. You don't get the yeald, but you get very easy) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Umm, yeah. Don't have any time to talk now. Maybe later. Ahh, you wouldn't happen to have any duct-tape, bailing wire or bubble-gun would ya? Don't a
Research Rachel	Posted - 2008.11.09 19:41:00 - [14] yeah boost the hulk, i mean... it's not like it can fit cargo rigs. oh wait
Renee Alexis Luminous Love Brewery	Posted - 2008.11.09 19:47:00 - [15] I vote NO on increasing mine-into-cargohold solo hulk players! I mean, sheesh, the Hulk is already the end-all-be-all mining ship, and you want to make it MOAR EPIC?? _____________________________________
Korovyov Luminous Love Brewery	Posted - 2008.11.09 19:49:00 - [16] Obvious macro miners are obvious. --=--=-- end of post --=--=-- got booze?
Tae'Lin Hynd Simply Planned	Posted - 2008.11.09 19:49:00 - [17] Originally by: Research Rachel yeah boost the hulk, i mean... it's not like it can fit cargo rigs. oh wait To fit cargo rigs, will cut into bottom line, if you want max yield, yes you have to stagger your lasers or you will waste some ore.
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2008.11.09 20:19:00 - [18] Stagger your mining lasers. Fit cargohold expanders. Problem solved. Originally by: Catharacta My CNR runs on salvager tears.
Sq7	Posted - 2008.11.09 21:36:00 - [19] What about expander rigs? Won't they do the trick?
Thorson Wiles Minmatar M3 Co-Op	Posted - 2008.11.09 22:29:00 - [20] Base * 1.275^EC2 * 1.15 T1 * 1.2^T2 w/ 2 EC2s = 8000 * 1.275^2 = 13,005 (But you don't want to stop using your upgrades) w/ 3 T1 rigs = 8000 * 1.15^3 = 12,167 w/ 1 T1 & 2 T2 rigs = 8000 * 1.15 * 1.2^2 = 13,248 If you want simple (aka very easy) fit rigs. Your spending isk is better than CCP changing the ship for you - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Umm, yeah. Don't have any time to talk now. Maybe later. Ahh, you wouldn't happen to have any duct-tape, bailing wire or bubble-gun would ya? Don't a
Kittamaru Gallente Democracy of Klingon Brothers Utterly Harmless	Posted - 2008.11.09 22:39:00 - [21] The problem is this... the hulk IS the Be-All End-All of mining... The fact that it can't hold it's own yield is stupid... it'd be like having a pickup truck that can handle a 3 ton towing load and giving it a 1 ton hitch...
Sir Substance Minmatar MagiTech Alliance Inc. MagiTech Corp	Posted - 2008.11.09 22:48:00 - [22] Originally by: Kittamaru The problem is this... the hulk IS the Be-All End-All of mining... The fact that it can't hold it's own yield is stupid... it'd be like having a pickup truck that can handle a 3 ton towing load and giving it a 1 ton hitch... this. its true that rigs and staggering will allow for a makeshift solution. but the fact remains, a mining ship cant hold a single full cycle on its own, if you use max yeald mods. is that not a shade retarded? - PvPers always say "GB2WoW". the message is that EVE is hard, and people just need to deal with it. wasn't it funny how when nano's started making it hard for them, that all went out the window?
Thorson Wiles Minmatar M3 Co-Op	Posted - 2008.11.09 23:10:00 - [23] Originally by: Sir Substance this. its true that rigs and staggering will allow for a makeshift solution. but the fact remains, a mining ship cant hold a single full cycle on its own, if you use max yeald mods. is that not a shade retarded? Actaully, the ship can hold the yeald of the miners. It's your makeshift boosting that's topping the hold, so a makeshift cargo solution to your makeshift boosting is the answer. (If adding components to boost the hold is a makeshift solution, then surely so is boosting yeald) If you want to boost your yeald, you should boost your hold. The solution is already there. (And nothing you can say will change that fact) Simple as that. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Umm, yeah. Don't have any time to talk now. Maybe later. Ahh, you wouldn't happen to have any duct-tape, bailing wire or bubble-gun would ya? Don't a
Sig Sour	Posted - 2008.11.09 23:28:00 - [24] Nobody said miners were the brightest bunch... Cargohold Optimization You don't want to spend the money, stagger your miners.
Thorson Wiles Minmatar M3 Co-Op	Posted - 2008.11.09 23:30:00 - [25] Originally by: Dyaven What she's saying [rather, complaining about,] is that one [maxed out] cycle will not fit in the Hulk's [base] cargohold. Doesn't matter how big the Orca's cargohold is because you can't mine directly to it. (I inserted key text to clarify the OP's position) Probelm is, the OP fit everything to get the maximum yeald, and not going for a more balanced approach. There is another group of people that fitted to get the maximum desired effect and on tuesday, they are getting nerfed because so many people complained. If enough people complain here, maybe the yeald boosters will get nerfed as well. (Then watch the whining) Either live with the loss, or pull out one of your rigs and add a T1 Cargo Optimization for an extra 1200m3 capacity. If dropping the drone rig puts your expected max yeald below 8k, you can save yourself 35mil. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Umm, yeah. Don't have any time to talk now. Maybe later. Ahh, you wouldn't happen to have any duct-tape, bailing wire or bubble-gun would ya? Don't a
Thorson Wiles Minmatar M3 Co-Op	Posted - 2008.11.09 23:35:00 - [26] Originally by: Sig Sour Nobody said miners were the brightest bunch... Being a sometimes miner, I uh, don't quite understand your comment. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Umm, yeah. Don't have any time to talk now. Maybe later. Ahh, you wouldn't happen to have any duct-tape, bailing wire or bubble-gun would ya? Don't a
Kell Braugh Dawn of a new Empire The Initiative.	Posted - 2008.11.10 00:44:00 - [27] Edited by: Kell Braugh on 10/11/2008 00:47:08 OP says "Hulk needs re balancing". Hrm.. and just what is the Hulk re balancing with? Its a unique ship with no real equivalent or competition. Not sure exactly why you don't understand the responses to your post though. We are saying everything about your process and setup (fit) are for MAXING out your yield. It just so happens things don't always work out the best overall when you only focus one aspect. So you choose max yield, and complain you don't have the cargohold to fit it. Ok. Whats the problem? Scale back a bit on the yield and boost your cargo and you'll fit it just fine. As an example, what you are asking for is the same as a fitting a pvp ship with a 100% gank setup and complaining you have no tank. For reference, I've got a Indy alt and make most my isk mining and manufacturing. I say the Hulk is just fine and any ship that can mine about 5k m3 while tanking a triple Battleship spawn is already giving you a huge advantage. - EFT screen shots are NOT an accurate example of a ship's abilities.
Shotar Aronia Intaki Mining and Exploration.	Posted - 2008.11.10 07:05:00 - [28] Some of the numbers in the others replys are off but as far as regards the Ops comments about increasing the Hulk's cargohold to accomidate greater mining yield. A Hulk with two cargohold Optimization I's would have a capacity of 17,199 cubic meters. The ship works just fine if properly fit, no adjustment needed.
Hsallie Gallente V i r u s	Posted - 2008.11.10 14:37:00 - [29] the OP is asking for a rebalancing of the hulk, and i think everyone here is being bad at yelling at him. Remember he is not asking for a boost, so more cargo space is out of the question(as that would be a boost) but balancing the hulks yield to fit better with the new bonuses of the orca IS a good idea. lets say 20% less yield pr cycle should do it i think, perhaps someone else could run the numbers to be more excat. On a serious note, like alot of people have said stagger your lasers if you want maximum yield OR fit an expander of any kind ... nuf said
minereffort	Posted - 2008.11.10 15:08:00 - [30] Originally by: Neill Kerry yes but u see its bout when u have both 5% implants for yield, all lvl5 yield effect skills, 2x mining upgade t2, 2x drone rig, 5 harvesting drones and!!! . A PARTRIDGE IN A PEAR TREEEE! HAPPY HOLIDAYS PLSE MINE RESPONSABLY! this mssg brought to you by MADM..Miners Against Drunk Mining!
Thorson Wiles Minmatar M3 Co-Op	Posted - 2008.11.10 16:36:00 - [31] Originally by: Hsallie Remember he is not asking for a boost, so more cargo space is out of the question(as that would be a boost) but balancing the hulks yield to fit better with the new bonuses of the orca IS a good idea. No the OP was to: Originally by: Neill Kerry my suggestion and rather need or even logic step is to reballance hulks cargohold! This equates specifically to a modified (larger) hold, and not a reduction in yeald. That's why the dissent. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Umm, yeah. Don't have any time to talk now. Maybe later. Ahh, you wouldn't happen to have any duct-tape, bailing wire or bubble-gun would ya? Don't a
Miraqu Caldari Amarrian Heavy Industries	Posted - 2008.11.10 20:38:00 - [32] I would really like to see an expanded Hulk cargohold. But: The yield is greater than the hold, it has been that way for some time. Never tried mining with a Rorqual I assume? The orca is only a smaller Rorqual, so the problem existed only in 0.0 Space until that patch. So far the only way is to put some Cargorigs in. So I don't think CCP will change anything just because that problem hits highsec now.
Chomapuraku Caldari Phantasmal Collective Sylph Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.11 01:26:00 - [33] Originally by: Sig Sour Cargohold Optimization You don't want to spend the money, stagger your miners. this thread has been won. please make your way towards the exit. seriously, if you're willing to spend the 400 million isk and all that skilling-up on an orca, you can spend an extra 60 mil on rigs for your hulk.
Zibu 81 ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.11 01:27:00 - [34] Originally by: Neill Kerry hulk has to be reballanced with new technologys available, whats new? now we have mining upgrades II giving 9% yield bonus(2x in low slots) Orca now provides 15% yield bonus, aprox -25% cycle reduction and aporx same % to laser range Mining drone rigs that pushes harvesting drones to provide over 500m3 a minute my suggestion and rather need or even logic step is to reballance hulks cargohold! why? hulk now yields over 8000m3 a cycle thus we need to get 10000m3 cargohold on hulk as soon as possible just to cover the yield base a cycle hope this will be taken into consider, its not some silly idea just cose i would like to have that cargohold but rather something that needs to be ballanced with new technologys we have been given CCP rulez :) Or you know, CCP could reduce the Hulk's max yield...so that even if maxed it would still fit in the cargo hold. Because it seams right now it's unbalanced when it's fit for max yield...
Tarron Sarek Gallente Biotronics Inc. Alternative Realities	Posted - 2008.11.12 00:48:00 - [35] Edited by: Tarron Sarek on 12/11/2008 00:49:36 The Hulk's clearly overpowered at the moment. I agree to a rebalance change that brings the yield more in line with the cargohold. ___________________________________ Balance is power, ~~guard~~ hide it well "Ceterum censeo Polycarbonem esse delendam"
Squasar Caldari Ukami Industries	Posted - 2008.11.12 02:06:00 - [36] Umm, I'm only pulling 3800m3 per cycle, so your cracked out method and wanted for a nerf of the Hulk's yield would hurt most of the mining society. Stagger your drones and strips and don't ruin mining for the rest of us. kthxbye
Anton Cyldragen	Posted - 2008.11.12 03:40:00 - [37] couldn't you just stagger the mining laser's so they deposit at different times allowing you to move the ore out of you hold or do u just want to not have to pay attention to your comp screen while you mine?
Neill Kerry	Posted - 2008.11.12 05:44:00 - [38] Edited by: Neill Kerry on 12/11/2008 05:45:00 Strip miners themselfs do not go over 8000m3 mininig drones and strip miners thougather max out and riged do in combination with max trained orca pilot thus gang links for mining
Clansworth Burning Sky Labs Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2008.12.03 09:10:00 - [39] Edited by: Clansworth on 03/12/2008 09:11:44 So has anyone figured out yet how the OP was getting more than 8000m¦/cycle out of his/her hulk? I still fail to see how this is any kind of a problem, other than someone being too lazy to drag the ore out every cycle. MAX HULK YIELD: (with All maxed skills, both 5% implants, 2 Mining Upgrade II's, Veldspar Crystal II, Mindlinked Foreman) 1961m¦/laser/cycle * 3 lasers = 5883m¦/cycle. (5 Harvester Drones w/ maxed skills and 2 Tech ii Drone Yield Rigs) 97.4m¦/drone/trip * 5 drones = 487m¦/trip So worst case, if your drones came back at the same time as your lasers cycled, you'd get 6370m¦ into your 8000m¦ cargo hold. Director/Orca/Rorqual bonuses do not affect this number at all, only how often it occurs. EDIT: Bleh.. Stealth OP edits are bad... POS Personal Storage
DevilsCry	Posted - 2008.12.03 11:05:00 - [40] You guys do realize that with full cargo you can hold like 17k+m3 and you can also overload your strips mid cycle and u get ur full ammount based on how long its run for plus you save the extra time. Sometimes when im mining a roid lets say its 1/2 my yeild i end it halfway into the cycle... right now im using a retriever but ill have my hulk fully rigged in about 17 days.
Thorson Wiles Minmatar M3 Co-Op	Posted - 2008.12.03 15:41:00 - [41] Originally by: DevilsCry You guys do realize ... Most of these posts are moot now since they were based upon the original premise of the OP. (Paraphrased: A max yeald Hulk overflows it's base cargo, so the base cargo needs buffed) The OP has been removing the content of his posts once he saw that he was incorrect.
DevilsCry	Posted - 2008.12.04 04:55:00 - [42] eh my bad lol

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