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Qorrin C0LDFIRE RUDE Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.09 21:33:00 - [1] Edited by: Qorrin on 09/11/2008 21:35:25 Has anyone seen/heard or know whats coming I remember that Zulupark in his super q/a forum had said to look to fanfest to find out about the mining changes, since I can't fly to iceland, I'm wondering if anyone that is there.... could someone shed some light on things...
Esab Caldari	Posted - 2008.11.10 08:56:00 - [2] Im very interested in this as well. What with the orca coming out and everyman and his dog seeming to want one I cant imagine what the belts will look like after a few months of mining....I mean they are bad enough now! Esab
Ancy Denaries Caldari Amarr Sisterhood of Galactic Sirens	Posted - 2008.11.10 09:25:00 - [3] While I certainly do not remember everything said at the roundtables and the presentations, I can sum up the ideas for mining changes. Please not that nothing of this is set in stone, but are ideas that the devs feel are good and that they might wanna use. Changes ARE coming to mining, they're just not set in stone how yet. 1. Majority of the mining system will be moved to the so called "Dungeon System". Static belts will be HEAVILY nerfed and will only contain the most basic and probably a crappy variant of the availible ores. (Dull veldspar or something like it). The more valuable belts will be moved to the dungeon system (mission and deadspace system) in order to give the devs more tools to handle random events, triggers and tactical environments in the mining areas. Belts will be hidden (not show up in overview and will move randomly) and have to be probed/scanned with a new mechanic. Ideas have been tossed around giving ships an ore scanner, with more advanced mining ships (barges and exhumers) having better scanners to locate ore faster. Belts will be TRUE asteroid belts with thousands of roids. Most of it is going to be pure particle effects for the aesthetics, but minable roids will populate the area close to the warp in points and will be randomly placed instead of the current crescent arc. 2. Asteroids will cease being of different types. You will no longer see "Veldspar", "Scordite" or "Arkonor" roids when warping to a belt. All you will see is "Asteroid". You will have to use sophisticated scanning equipment to survey the asteroids to find out what is inside it, as well as what composition the roid has. 3. Asteriods will probably be composited. No longer will a roid contain just ONE ore type. You can find roids with 10% veldspar, 15% scordite, 45% kernite and 20% gneiss. 4. Strip mining and deep core mining will change. Strip mining will basically be sucking the entire roid into your cargohold. You will extract everything from the surface of the roid and get varying amounts of ores the roids is composited of. You will probably also get a lot of waste material that is partly useless. Deep core mining will be a more specialized form of mining, where you use deep core miners to hit the veins in the roids and extract just one type of ore and bypass the waste. 5. Skills will have a much greater effect on your mining. As it stands, your mining skills at present will ONLY affect your yield / cycle. This will change a lot and you will have skills that affect what ores you can mine (due to deep core mining and frequencies) and HOW you can mine. Probably even skills affecting laser range, but this was just tossed around as an alternative skill. No longer can a newb jump into his Bantam with T1 lasers and Mining I and go out to 0.0 and mine Arkonor. That is left for the true miners. Just as with combat there will be lots more specialising. 6. Rat raids. Rats will no longer be locked to one type. With the move to the dungeon system, devs will be able to spawn random events such as Blood Raider raids into Guristas territory, rats fighting eachother and so on. 7. Random events in roid belts. Random events will be introduced such as exploding asteroids, tactical environments, gas clouds and the like. There was even talk of having roids flying around that you will have to "chase" and avoid. 8. Planetary rings on the drawing board. Torfi mentioned in the CCP panel that planetary rings are finally on the drawing board and WILL make it as a part of the mining overhaul. Planetary rings will probably be part of the dangerous hidden belts that you progress thru as your skills increase. In the belts you will be able to find ore veins, ice and other resources and it WILL be a dangerous environment with toxic waste clouds, exploding asteroids and strange radiation. Probably nasty rats as well. Balance is important, but you will always adapt to changing circumstances and you don't whine about stuff you can't change.
Ancy Denaries Caldari Amarr Sisterhood of Galactic Sirens	Posted - 2008.11.10 09:30:00 - [4] 9. Graphical updates to the mining environment. Chronotis mentioned that the graphics team is working on making roids look better, mining laser effects look better, and having roids actually diminish as you mine them. Strip mining will cause it to get excavated, and deep core mining will make roids get more and more hollow. 10. More interactive mining system. Devs also mentioned that they strive to make mining more interesting and rewarding. Not necessarily by giving you more yield, but giving you something to do. Perhaps real time scanning of the roids to see WHERE the ore vein is and adjusting laser angles, frequencies and stuff to maximize your yield. It's on the drawing board but nothing decided. PLEASE NOTICE! None of the above is set in stone, and none of the devs have said that "thus it shalt be". The above is simply stuff that they would LIKE to see, and stuff that they are working towards to make it happen in one form or another. The only thing that was actually said that it's going to happen is planetary rings. So, the above was discussed at Fanfest as a possible future, but remember, nothing of this is said to happen. It's just what they'd LIKE to do. Balance is important, but you will always adapt to changing circumstances and you don't whine about stuff you can't change.
Halada Caldari Lone Star Joint Venture Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2008.11.10 09:33:00 - [5] Edited by: Halada on 10/11/2008 09:35:46 Is Chronotis smoking the good stuff? I think the idea of making mining a little more interesting is a good thing, but this sounds overly complicated and pointless. I can see it becoming very frustrating having to probe down (which is the dullest and most boring activity in EVE after POS warfare...) belts all the time. Unless of course, the belts are always juicy and full whenever you find them. Belts do need to be upgraded esthetically. I like the idea of Deep Core Mining the veins of a roid, makes sense. Though if you frack up the system too much you're gonna crash the mineral market, PvPers will whine, and it will be our fault again. I'm definitely intrigued by some of these points but won't hold my breath since CCP never prioritized Industry and even Quantum of Rise isn't a major patch like RMR was for example. For example it took a year and a half for the Orca to even appear in game and afaik the Draftman implant for invention is still broken and useless, or are they fixing it in this patch? Plus, if you really change the belt systems, 20 pages of the mining guide will need to go poof ★ LSJV now recruiting ★
Ancy Denaries Caldari Amarr Sisterhood of Galactic Sirens	Posted - 2008.11.10 09:49:00 - [6] Originally by: Halada Edited by: Halada on 10/11/2008 09:36:44 Is Chronotis smoking the good stuff? I think the idea of making mining a little more interesting is a good thing, but this sounds overly complicated and pointless. I can see it becoming very frustrating having to probe down (which is the dullest and most boring activity in EVE after POS warfare...) belts all the time. Unless of course, the belts are always juicy and full whenever you find them. Belts do need to be upgraded esthetically. I like the idea of Deep Core Mining the veins of a roid, makes sense. Though if you frack up the system too much you're gonna crash the mineral market, PvPers will whine, and it will be our fault again. I'm definitely intrigued by some of these points but won't hold my breath since CCP never prioritized Industry and even Quantum of Rise isn't a major patch like RMR was for example. It took a year and a half for the Orca to even appear in game and afaik the Draftman implant for invention is still broken and useless, or are they fixing it in this patch? In any case, it probably will take them another 18 months to even bring any sort of changes to the mining system, so this must be drawing board only. Plus, if you really change the belt systems, 20 pages of the mining guide will need to go poof I for one are very excited about these possible changes. They mentioned that scanning down the belts will not be exactly like the probing for hidden belts is today. It will be a much simpler system in a new mechanic, because they do not want to detract from actual exploration. Miningscanning will be some form of new mechanic, if I understood them correctly. It's just to remove the intybouncing around belts to harass miners AND to bring the mining system into the dungeon system to make it more interesting and less of an afk-business. But as you say, it's probably going to be a while before they actually implement the changes, but the feeling I got was that it wasn't TOO far into the future. 2010 perhaps :D And yeah, your awesome guide would need a re-write >.< I feel your pain there. (Thank you for that guide btw, it was what got me into mining in the first place ;) and now I'm finally the mining godess I set out to become :D) Balance is important, but you will always adapt to changing circumstances and you don't whine about stuff you can't change.
Esab Caldari	Posted - 2008.11.10 10:35:00 - [7] Originally by: Ancy Denaries Everything you said. Excelent response and information thank you. I know its not set in stone but even if only a few of these features make it in it will hopefully deter the less determined macro miners. Esab
Thenoran Caldari Hegemony Enterprises E L I T E Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.10 11:15:00 - [8] Edited by: Thenoran on 10/11/2008 11:16:25 I love these changes, more interactive Mining would be so much better than the current system, and belts you have to scan or probe out wouldn't completely stripped dry at the end of each day. Having the roids being dynamic and having varying compositions is also a great idea (no more veld grind). Also, a few ideas towards Mining ------------------------ Ship Yield Calc Improve Mining
Aiden Bismuth Gallente Die Boeremag	Posted - 2008.11.10 11:43:00 - [9] Originally by: Ancy Denaries 7. Random events in roid belts. Random events will be introduced such as exploding asteroids, tactical environments, gas clouds and the like. There was even talk of having roids flying around that you will have to "chase" and avoid. I hope this gets shelved. Have you seen how fast a mining barge/exhumer moves?. And now you have to dodge, and chase, unstable roids?. Originally by: Ancy Denaries 8. Planetary rings on the drawing board. Torfi mentioned in the CCP panel that planetary rings are finally on the drawing board and WILL make it as a part of the mining overhaul. Planetary rings will probably be part of the dangerous hidden belts that you progress thru as your skills increase. In the belts you will be able to find ore veins, ice and other resources and it WILL be a dangerous environment with toxic waste clouds, exploding asteroids and strange radiation. Probably nasty rats as well. Except for the rats, not keen on this one either. Otherwise, there are a number of good ideas here. If this did go ahead, I hope they make it more difficult to be scanned out by can-flippers and various other s****that like to bug miners. Regards, AB
Joss Sparq Caldari ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.10 12:10:00 - [10] Some of it is interesting, some more is (as has already been said) too complicated/quite pointless sounding.
Esab Caldari	Posted - 2008.11.10 12:18:00 - [11] Originally by: Aiden Bismuth Originally by: Ancy Denaries 7. Random events in roid belts. Random events will be introduced such as exploding asteroids, tactical environments, gas clouds and the like. There was even talk of having roids flying around that you will have to "chase" and avoid. I hope this gets shelved. Have you seen how fast a mining barge/exhumer moves?. And now you have to dodge, and chase, unstable roids?. I know what you mean here but its also a way of getting rid of macro miners. It seems to me mining is the easiest thing for them to do and hassle free so anything that involves more interaction is good for that. Not so good for those who are genuinly sat there but watching tv at the same time when in chill out mode though.. Esab
Arc D'landrus Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2008.11.10 12:19:00 - [12] Originally by: Esab Originally by: Ancy Denaries Everything you said. Excelent response and information thank you. I know its not set in stone but even if only a few of these features make it in it will hopefully deter the less determined macro miners. Esab The ideas being thrown around sound like a 50/50 crapshoot. I wouldn't mind at all having to scan for belts; and the idea of the belts, furthermore the asteroids, being psudo-chaotic would at least keep mining interesting. But having to contend with booby-traps, wandering asteroids that no Hulk can catch unless they're moving at about 1 m/s, and random giant NPC raids? Sound tedious, and well, tedium hardly equals fun. For my monthly dollars, all of this would be worth it, and only be worth it, if this can kill the mass populous of macroers. That's pretty much my caveat. _______________________________________________ Easy Dude. You're being very un-Dude.
Menthal Gallente	Posted - 2008.11.10 12:25:00 - [13] more skills for mining ==> YAY making it more tedious ==> NAY change is good but change for the worse is not good, mining has been nerfed enough already, respawns happened daily now biweekly. what will happen if they move it to exploration? all the good ores 'll be taken and the useless ones 'll be left behind not making the belt respawn, talk about serious nerf on that one. pretty yellow beams
McFly C0LDFIRE RUDE Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.10 12:48:00 - [14] Originally by: Halada Edited by: Halada on 10/11/2008 09:36:44 Is Chronotis smoking the good stuff? I think the idea of making mining a little more interesting is a good thing, but this sounds overly complicated and pointless. I can see it becoming very frustrating having to probe down (which is the dullest and most boring activity in EVE after POS warfare...) belts all the time. Unless of course, the belts are always juicy and full whenever you find them. Belts do need to be upgraded esthetically. I like the idea of Deep Core Mining the veins of a roid, makes sense. Though if you frack up the system too much you're gonna crash the mineral market, PvPers will whine, and it will be our fault again. I'm definitely intrigued by some of these points but won't hold my breath since CCP never prioritized Industry and even Quantum of Rise isn't a major patch like RMR was for example. It took a year and a half for the Orca to even appear in game and afaik the Draftman implant for invention is still broken and useless, or are they fixing it in this patch? In any case, it probably will take them another 18 months to even bring any sort of changes to the mining system, so this must be drawing board only. Plus, if you really change the belt systems, 20 pages of the mining guide will need to go poof hey there holada, I just wanted to say thanks for that mining guide. I've been handing it out to many of the nubbins that have joined my corp/alliance. It's always been a well balanced guide to eve in general imho. I remember finding it in 06 and seeing it as a guide to eve in almost all areas thanks man.
Ancy Denaries Caldari Amarr Sisterhood of Galactic Sirens	Posted - 2008.11.10 12:49:00 - [15] I seriously believe that they will think thru stuff both once and twice before implementing it. Having to "chase" roids in a Hulk would probably involve some changes to exhumers speeds and agility. I sometimes baffle at how stupid you people think the devs are. :D As I mentioned above, it was an idea flying around, and nothing that was put out as a serious "we have to have this" goal. Brainstorm, if you like. Balance is important, but you will always adapt to changing circumstances and you don't whine about stuff you can't change.
Qorrin C0LDFIRE RUDE Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.10 12:51:00 - [16] Edited by: Qorrin on 10/11/2008 12:53:29 thanks for the info, not much stuff coming out of fanfest that isn't about ambulation. I hope this doesn't kill the mineral market tho, I mean sure the lowend crap ores may still be in the belts, but if it becomes genuinely difficult and more tedious to mine the market will go down (which is kinda good because mineral prices will go up and manufacturers like myself will do well to mine their own minerals instead of buy.) But I'm sure they'll look into it and see what impact it'll have. Down with macroers, but hopefully dont make it impossible for me to run all three of my hulks at one time..... cuz then I'd have no use for my alts...or their accounts :)
Elhina Novae Sky's Edge	Posted - 2008.11.10 16:27:00 - [17] Ancy thanks. Me likes. ------------ Originally by: Boz Well Originally by: SurrenderMonkey ... There's an Amarr problem? Nothing that can't be solved by more Minmatar nerfs.
Jonak Gallente	Posted - 2008.11.10 16:41:00 - [18] I like the ideas. Mining could use some more variety. And a few high sec gas clouds.
minereffort	Posted - 2008.11.10 18:17:00 - [19] Waste? Waste to Waste caro space nice. I can see all the Jet cans Now.
MailDeadDrop Archon Industries	Posted - 2008.11.10 18:19:00 - [20] Originally by: Ancy Denaries Having to "chase" roids in a Hulk would probably involve some changes to exhumers speeds and agility. The original mention (above) was having to chase asteroids. nothing was said about doing the chasing in an Exhumer. Actually, I can see where there could be some interesting mechanics where highly desirable asteroids are made to be chased by mining cruisers. MDD Jump Clones: 8M and NO corp switching
Bloody Rabbit Jita Miners	Posted - 2008.11.10 22:39:00 - [21] Originally by: MailDeadDrop Actually, I can see where there could be some interesting mechanics where highly desirable asteroids are made to be chased by mining cruisers. MDD And then trackered in?
Dennmoth Ferdier Scoopex	Posted - 2008.11.10 22:52:00 - [22] I for one would love to see everything on that post implemented as is. The more complicated the better. The more you have to do the better. The more unstable and luck based, and skill based it is, the better. Love the ideas, and will love devs to death if any of it will be implemented.
SeismicForce Terra Incognita Vanguard.	Posted - 2008.11.10 22:52:00 - [23] Can you web the running asteroid...?
Darkeen Gallente	Posted - 2008.11.10 23:54:00 - [24] Actually this is just for Chribba. Now his veldnaught has a chance of being damaged/taken down when he tries to strip mine an entire planetary ring! Regards, Jason Brisbane
Squasar Caldari Ukami Industries	Posted - 2008.11.12 01:23:00 - [25] For the idea of random ores being mined and part of it filling the hold with crap, that's just plain bull. Why would we mine if half or more of our hold will sell for 0.0001isk/unit killing any kind of profit rating. This combined with the fact that you'd need 2-3x the miners to keep the economy in the state it's in now. Ore prices would skyrocket with that plan, killing production and trickling down to PvP. Sounds like another failed idea coming.
Kalderion Mar	Posted - 2008.11.12 03:42:00 - [26] Nice summation Ancy, well stated. I am glad to see that they are doing SOMETHING.... Dont know how much I will like it, but like anything else, Change will come weather its wanted or not. I'd imagine it will take some getting used to... As far as skills go.. Every other MMO i quit, was because they Made my Uber character RETRAIN to continue to be the best he can be. If they add more skills, that make me retrain my character after all the time i already spent making him into a mining powerhouse, there will probably be more roids for you guys. Can only wait and see what happens Halada, Nice to see you, Your guide has been my bible, Very impressive and well written, TYVM!
Doc Iridium Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2008.11.12 06:06:00 - [27] Originally by: Darkeen Actually this is just for Chribba. Now his veldnaught has a chance of being damaged/taken down when he tries to strip mine an entire planetary ring! Meh, nah, he just goes into reinforced mode and tells local that there are 20 1.5 million isk bounty battleships at his location, groups someone long enough for them to start warping to him, and degroups them before they actually leave warp at his location. Well, I've said my piece - wait, is that Veldspar over there? Woot!
Frenden Dax	Posted - 2008.11.12 08:37:00 - [28] Originally by: Squasar Ore prices would skyrocket with that plan GASP mining might become more lucrative! Blasphemy!
Ancy Denaries Caldari Amarr Sisterhood of Galactic Sirens	Posted - 2008.11.12 09:26:00 - [29] Edited by: Ancy Denaries on 12/11/2008 09:32:06 Just to note on some of the concerns raised in this thread: Strip mining worthlessness: While this was just mentioned in a passerby, I genuinely believe that CCP has some really good ideas about strip mining (which is NOT to be confused with using strip miners, but simply a mining form) and will not nerf Exhumers into oblivion. Waste products might be used for other things (such as making POS fuels or whatever). Or there will be no waste, but you will simply get ALL ores, even though you only want one type. It's not set in stone, it's just on the planning stage so far. Dangerous environments: I do believe that most dangerous environments will be made so that a T2 fitted Hulk can handle them. Some might actually (omg blasphemy) need teamwork with some fighters defending the miners. Who knows? I doubt CCP is going to omgwtfpwnnerf solominers and make mining tedious. Tediousness: The whole idea to the mining changes is to make them exciting, interesting and interactive. Yes, this is going to ** off all those that sit half asleep while mining ice and watches movies. You know what? I don't give a bloody damn. I pay to PLAY the game. If mining becomes fun, interactive and exciting, I will be overjoyed, because it's the most boring thing you can in EVE at the moment. So while I don't think CCPs goals is to make mining tedious, but to make it interactive. Which means you can DO stuff to help your mining, instead of just F1-F3 and sit there waiting for the cycles to finish. Retraining:** We talked about this at the roundtable, and while I didn't get a straight answer, I got the feeling that they will build on and expand on the currently existing skills. For instance making the Processing skills help Deep Core mining and so on. They didn't feel there were much more skills they could inject into the mining system, so I doubt you'll have to retrain. (I'd be grumpy too, because I'ev just achieved what Halada calls a "Mining God(ess)".) Balance is important, but you will always adapt to changing circumstances and you don't whine about stuff you can't change.
Ancy Denaries Caldari Amarr Sisterhood of Galactic Sirens	Posted - 2008.11.12 10:35:00 - [30] Originally by: Halada ...and afaik the Draftman implant for invention is still broken and useless, or are they fixing it in this patch... Slightly off topic, but from the patch notes: Originally by: Patch Notes The following Hardwiring implants will be removed from players heads and placed in their hangars until the implants are fixed: Hardwiring - Poteque Pharmaceuticals 'Draftsman' GI-1 Hardwiring - Poteque Pharmaceuticals 'Draftsman' GI-2 Balance is important, but you will always adapt to changing circumstances and you don't whine about stuff you can't change.

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