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Ca0 Ca0
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Posted - 2004.07.06 05:11:00 -
[1]
TomB please for the love of God, can we get this **** sorted? ECM is ruining battles, it is really getting to the point that it comes down to how many scorpions you have versus how many scorpions the other side has.
And when you are always outnumbered, and fighting superior forces, what happens is that they match up one scorpion per each of your ships. ECM in general, and dampeners ESPECIALLY, is way overpowered . . . didn't you have a blog about upcoming changes? I remember they were very good suggestions, making it random and all. IMPLEMENT THEM NOW! Also read this thread for more details on how sucky ECM makes battles right now . . .
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=92000
Grr.
Cao
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Ca0 Ca0
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Posted - 2004.07.06 05:11:00 -
[2]
TomB please for the love of God, can we get this **** sorted? ECM is ruining battles, it is really getting to the point that it comes down to how many scorpions you have versus how many scorpions the other side has.
And when you are always outnumbered, and fighting superior forces, what happens is that they match up one scorpion per each of your ships. ECM in general, and dampeners ESPECIALLY, is way overpowered . . . didn't you have a blog about upcoming changes? I remember they were very good suggestions, making it random and all. IMPLEMENT THEM NOW! Also read this thread for more details on how sucky ECM makes battles right now . . .
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=92000
Grr.
Cao
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Kojio
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Posted - 2004.07.06 05:40:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Kojio on 06/07/2004 05:44:15
What's the problem?
Both dampeners and jammers have counter-modules that can be equipped in both medium and low slots. Have you tried fitting ECCM/sensor boosting modules in your setup? If not then expect to be jammed. You can still deploy drones/use smartbombs/fire FoF missiles while being jammed, and dampeners don't work very well against close-range setups like blasterthrons. Otherwise you always have the option of warping out/back in if you are being jammed by multiple EW ships.
I do agree that dampeners could use a bit larger stacking penalty, and maybe cost more cap. I do not think EW is seriously unbalanced though, more like people are too bitter about equipping the proper modules to effectively counter against it.
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Kojio
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Posted - 2004.07.06 05:40:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Kojio on 06/07/2004 05:44:15
What's the problem?
Both dampeners and jammers have counter-modules that can be equipped in both medium and low slots. Have you tried fitting ECCM/sensor boosting modules in your setup? If not then expect to be jammed. You can still deploy drones/use smartbombs/fire FoF missiles while being jammed, and dampeners don't work very well against close-range setups like blasterthrons. Otherwise you always have the option of warping out/back in if you are being jammed by multiple EW ships.
I do agree that dampeners could use a bit larger stacking penalty, and maybe cost more cap. I do not think EW is seriously unbalanced though, more like people are too bitter about equipping the proper modules to effectively counter against it.
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Kasha
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Posted - 2004.07.06 06:09:00 -
[5]
ECM is overpowered? lol.
Actually ECM is currently very UNDERPOWERED due to the fact that tech 2 ECCM is available while tech 2 ECM is NOT available.
And lets not forget that Scorpion equiped for EW will be very easy to kill if you have ECCM on your ship.
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Kasha
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Posted - 2004.07.06 06:09:00 -
[6]
ECM is overpowered? lol.
Actually ECM is currently very UNDERPOWERED due to the fact that tech 2 ECCM is available while tech 2 ECM is NOT available.
And lets not forget that Scorpion equiped for EW will be very easy to kill if you have ECCM on your ship.
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Pandora Panda
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Posted - 2004.07.06 06:25:00 -
[7]
Dampners are overpowered because 1 booster + 1 dampner = 75% of normal range and resolution.
Boosters either need to get kicked up to 100% or dampners need to get knocked down to 33%.
As for jamming, with tech2 backup arrays and FoF you should be fine. And with a fleet of ECM scorps hitting like a wet sponge and having the ability to tank little damage, if you manage to keep firing through the jamming youll get a lot of kills.
(Thats for battleship balance - I personally think frigs and cruisers should get a meaty bonus to sensor strength, having a single racial able to jam most frigates is stupid)
--------------------------------------------
CONCORD: Kneecapping Pilots for Misdemeanors Since 2003 |
Pandora Panda
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Posted - 2004.07.06 06:25:00 -
[8]
Dampners are overpowered because 1 booster + 1 dampner = 75% of normal range and resolution.
Boosters either need to get kicked up to 100% or dampners need to get knocked down to 33%.
As for jamming, with tech2 backup arrays and FoF you should be fine. And with a fleet of ECM scorps hitting like a wet sponge and having the ability to tank little damage, if you manage to keep firing through the jamming youll get a lot of kills.
(Thats for battleship balance - I personally think frigs and cruisers should get a meaty bonus to sensor strength, having a single racial able to jam most frigates is stupid)
--------------------------------------------
CONCORD: Kneecapping Pilots for Misdemeanors Since 2003 |
Luc Boye
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Posted - 2004.07.06 07:31:00 -
[9]
 Originally by: Kojio
Edited by: Kojio on 06/07/2004 05:44:15
What's the problem?
Both dampeners and jammers have counter-modules that can be equipped in both medium and low slots. Have you tried fitting ECCM/sensor boosting modules in your setup? If not then expect to be jammed. You can still deploy drones/use smartbombs/fire FoF missiles while being jammed, and dampeners don't work very well against close-range setups like blasterthrons. Otherwise you always have the option of warping out/back in if you are being jammed by multiple EW ships.
I do agree that dampeners could use a bit larger stacking penalty, and maybe cost more cap. I do not think EW is seriously unbalanced though, more like people are too bitter about equipping the proper modules to effectively counter against it.
Actually no, they dont. Sensor dampeners dont have proper counter measures.
Example:
base target range 80km.
you dampen 50% = 40km
the other guy boosts 50% = 60km
so the other side needs 2 boosters per dampener to equalize or come on top, not one.
--
2004.12.29 23:33:40combatMining Pollution Cloud hits you, doing 140.0 damage. |
Luc Boye
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Posted - 2004.07.06 07:31:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Kojio
Edited by: Kojio on 06/07/2004 05:44:15
What's the problem?
Both dampeners and jammers have counter-modules that can be equipped in both medium and low slots. Have you tried fitting ECCM/sensor boosting modules in your setup? If not then expect to be jammed. You can still deploy drones/use smartbombs/fire FoF missiles while being jammed, and dampeners don't work very well against close-range setups like blasterthrons. Otherwise you always have the option of warping out/back in if you are being jammed by multiple EW ships.
I do agree that dampeners could use a bit larger stacking penalty, and maybe cost more cap. I do not think EW is seriously unbalanced though, more like people are too bitter about equipping the proper modules to effectively counter against it.
Actually no, they dont. Sensor dampeners dont have proper counter measures.
Example:
base target range 80km.
you dampen 50% = 40km
the other guy boosts 50% = 60km
so the other side needs 2 boosters per dampener to equalize or come on top, not one.
--
2004.12.29 23:33:40combatMining Pollution Cloud hits you, doing 140.0 damage. |
Gaijin Lanis
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Posted - 2004.07.06 07:33:00 -
[11]
Hello, I lost a battle I wasn't prepared to fight, please nerf my opposition.
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Gaijin Lanis
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Posted - 2004.07.06 07:33:00 -
[12]
Hello, I lost a battle I wasn't prepared to fight, please nerf my opposition.
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Del Narveux
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Posted - 2004.07.06 08:03:00 -
[13]
Yeah, as stated above, both are counter-able, if youre not willing to sacrifice a bit of defensive strength to mount some anti-EW mods, you deserve to get spanked.
Giving frigs and, especially cruisers some EW lovin would be nice, aside from the sensor strength issue most have too few hardpoints for EW defense.
_________________
[SAK] And Proud Of It!
aka Cpt Bogus
Is that my torped sig cloaking your base? |
Del Narveux
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Posted - 2004.07.06 08:03:00 -
[14]
Yeah, as stated above, both are counter-able, if youre not willing to sacrifice a bit of defensive strength to mount some anti-EW mods, you deserve to get spanked.
Giving frigs and, especially cruisers some EW lovin would be nice, aside from the sensor strength issue most have too few hardpoints for EW defense.
_________________
[SAK] And Proud Of It!
aka Cpt Bogus
Is that my torped sig cloaking your base? |
DREAMWORKS
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Posted - 2004.07.06 08:06:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Gaijin Lanis
Hello, I lost a battle I wasn't prepared to fight, please nerf my opposition.
__________________________
http://www.nin.com/visuals/thtf_hi.html |
DREAMWORKS
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Posted - 2004.07.06 08:06:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Gaijin Lanis
Hello, I lost a battle I wasn't prepared to fight, please nerf my opposition.
__________________________
http://www.nin.com/visuals/thtf_hi.html |
Sinist
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Posted - 2004.07.06 08:07:00 -
[17]
No they have a point. Dampeners need to come in line with boosters. ECM and ECCM is balanced currently.
YOu figure EW is a pretty serious threat so you should be preparing for it. If not then this thread is what happens.
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Sinist
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Posted - 2004.07.06 08:07:00 -
[18]
No they have a point. Dampeners need to come in line with boosters. ECM and ECCM is balanced currently.
YOu figure EW is a pretty serious threat so you should be preparing for it. If not then this thread is what happens.
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Grimpak
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Posted - 2004.07.06 12:18:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Luc Boye
Originally by: Kojio
Edited by: Kojio on 06/07/2004 05:44:15
What's the problem?
Both dampeners and jammers have counter-modules that can be equipped in both medium and low slots. Have you tried fitting ECCM/sensor boosting modules in your setup? If not then expect to be jammed. You can still deploy drones/use smartbombs/fire FoF missiles while being jammed, and dampeners don't work very well against close-range setups like blasterthrons. Otherwise you always have the option of warping out/back in if you are being jammed by multiple EW ships.
I do agree that dampeners could use a bit larger stacking penalty, and maybe cost more cap. I do not think EW is seriously unbalanced though, more like people are too bitter about equipping the proper modules to effectively counter against it.
Actually no, they dont. Sensor dampeners dont have proper counter measures.
Example:
base target range 80km.
you dampen 50% = 40km
the other guy boosts 50% = 60km
so the other side needs 2 boosters per dampener to equalize or come on top, not one.
...actually I think the Remote sensor booster is the only efective counter to dampner, but then again, you can't equip for your own use
-------------------
Quote:
Fragm's Oversized Ego Cannon barely scratches the forums, inflicting omgnoonecares damage
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Grimpak
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Posted - 2004.07.06 12:18:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Luc Boye
Originally by: Kojio
Edited by: Kojio on 06/07/2004 05:44:15
What's the problem?
Both dampeners and jammers have counter-modules that can be equipped in both medium and low slots. Have you tried fitting ECCM/sensor boosting modules in your setup? If not then expect to be jammed. You can still deploy drones/use smartbombs/fire FoF missiles while being jammed, and dampeners don't work very well against close-range setups like blasterthrons. Otherwise you always have the option of warping out/back in if you are being jammed by multiple EW ships.
I do agree that dampeners could use a bit larger stacking penalty, and maybe cost more cap. I do not think EW is seriously unbalanced though, more like people are too bitter about equipping the proper modules to effectively counter against it.
Actually no, they dont. Sensor dampeners dont have proper counter measures.
Example:
base target range 80km.
you dampen 50% = 40km
the other guy boosts 50% = 60km
so the other side needs 2 boosters per dampener to equalize or come on top, not one.
...actually I think the Remote sensor booster is the only efective counter to dampner, but then again, you can't equip for your own use
-------------------
Quote:
Fragm's Oversized Ego Cannon barely scratches the forums, inflicting omgnoonecares damage
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Sally
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Posted - 2004.07.06 12:53:00 -
[21]
Can I have some cheese with your whine?
You are really pathetic Ca0 Ca0.
What is going to happen next? Whining about Stealthers killing Casters in DAoC?
--
Stories: #1
--
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Sally
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Posted - 2004.07.06 12:53:00 -
[22]
Can I have some cheese with your whine?
You are really pathetic Ca0 Ca0.
What is going to happen next? Whining about Stealthers killing Casters in DAoC?
--
Stories: #1
--
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Istvaan Shogaatsu
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Posted - 2004.07.06 13:34:00 -
[23]
Quote:
Actually no, they dont. Sensor dampeners dont have proper counter measures.
Example:
base target range 80km.
you dampen 50% = 40km
the other guy boosts 50% = 60km
so the other side needs 2 boosters per dampener to equalize or come on top, not one.
The thing with damps is, you don't need to equalize... just give yourself more lock range than the jammer thinks you're gonna get. From there on, you use your very large and very deadly guns to kill the ill-protected jammer, and go on with life as you know it.
ECM, if anything, is too weak right now. Dampers are not absolute, and ECM is too often reinforced against to be reliable.
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Istvaan Shogaatsu
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Posted - 2004.07.06 13:34:00 -
[24]
Quote:
Actually no, they dont. Sensor dampeners dont have proper counter measures.
Example:
base target range 80km.
you dampen 50% = 40km
the other guy boosts 50% = 60km
so the other side needs 2 boosters per dampener to equalize or come on top, not one.
The thing with damps is, you don't need to equalize... just give yourself more lock range than the jammer thinks you're gonna get. From there on, you use your very large and very deadly guns to kill the ill-protected jammer, and go on with life as you know it.
ECM, if anything, is too weak right now. Dampers are not absolute, and ECM is too often reinforced against to be reliable.
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Hanns
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Posted - 2004.07.06 14:03:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Hanns on 06/07/2004 14:04:29
Originally by: Sally
Can I have some cheese with your whine?
You are really pathetic Ca0 Ca0.
What is going to happen next? Whining about Stealthers killing Casters in DAoC?
Sally all i seem to find you doing on the forums is trolling, so you dont like cao cao, this dosent detract the fact Sensor Damps are overpowered!
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Hanns
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Posted - 2004.07.06 14:03:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Hanns on 06/07/2004 14:04:29
Originally by: Sally
Can I have some cheese with your whine?
You are really pathetic Ca0 Ca0.
What is going to happen next? Whining about Stealthers killing Casters in DAoC?
Sally all i seem to find you doing on the forums is trolling, so you dont like cao cao, this dosent detract the fact Sensor Damps are overpowered!
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hatchette
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Posted - 2004.07.06 14:13:00 -
[27]
ECM is good as it is.. well.. it will be when tech2 modules come. (currently they are a bit too weak, since we have tech2 backup arrays, but not tech2 ECMs)
But sensor dampners should really be nerfed a bit.. so they are on par with sensor boosters.
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hatchette
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Posted - 2004.07.06 14:13:00 -
[28]
ECM is good as it is.. well.. it will be when tech2 modules come. (currently they are a bit too weak, since we have tech2 backup arrays, but not tech2 ECMs)
But sensor dampners should really be nerfed a bit.. so they are on par with sensor boosters.
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Andrew Redburn
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Posted - 2004.07.06 14:28:00 -
[29]
If Sensor Boosters would give the same bonus as sensor dampeners would cut, a ship that fits one without being dampened would be to powerfull, I guess. Maybe that is why it has less bonus.
But I agree that Dampeners are at the moment just great, while ECM/ECCM is balanced.
On the other hand, imagine if your dampener is less powerfull and you are in a frig. Makes you more and more useless (misslenerf, ecm crap on frig, dampening less good). Only thing you still had was warp scrambling and webbing.
Also BBs would be less effective as they could dampen less good with 4 Dampeners and almost nothing scramble with 4 ECMs.
(always assuming the target has countermodules.)
I think in overall, it is fine the way it is. Let's room for much tactic and mixed fleets.
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Andrew Redburn
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Posted - 2004.07.06 14:28:00 -
[30]
If Sensor Boosters would give the same bonus as sensor dampeners would cut, a ship that fits one without being dampened would be to powerfull, I guess. Maybe that is why it has less bonus.
But I agree that Dampeners are at the moment just great, while ECM/ECCM is balanced.
On the other hand, imagine if your dampener is less powerfull and you are in a frig. Makes you more and more useless (misslenerf, ecm crap on frig, dampening less good). Only thing you still had was warp scrambling and webbing.
Also BBs would be less effective as they could dampen less good with 4 Dampeners and almost nothing scramble with 4 ECMs.
(always assuming the target has countermodules.)
I think in overall, it is fine the way it is. Let's room for much tactic and mixed fleets.
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