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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Moah
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Posted - 2004.07.06 14:43:00 -
[31]
Agree that dampners are overpowered, IMO ecm / eccm is ok as it is. but i remember that idea in the blog about random ecm / etc and it would be nice to hear what they are doing about it...
Fancy. |
Moah
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Posted - 2004.07.06 14:43:00 -
[32]
Agree that dampners are overpowered, IMO ecm / eccm is ok as it is. but i remember that idea in the blog about random ecm / etc and it would be nice to hear what they are doing about it...
Fancy. |
Sally
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Posted - 2004.07.06 14:57:00 -
[33]
 Originally by: Hanns
Edited by: Hanns on 06/07/2004 14:04:29
Originally by: Sally
Can I have some cheese with your whine?
You are really pathetic Ca0 Ca0.
What is going to happen next? Whining about Stealthers killing Casters in DAoC?
Sally all i seem to find you doing on the forums is trolling, so you dont like cao cao, this dosent detract the fact Sensor Damps are overpowered!
First off, I do not disklike anyone here.
Then Sensor Dampeners have been in game like this for ages, they even got gimped by the stacking nerf.
Only because he didn't get to gank somone in a fleet battle doesn't make them overpowered. There are 3 kind of modules to counter them and drones + FoF for short range and if you lock someone up before he locks you up you are free to target jam or dampen him yourself.
Someone with dampeners will most likely not try to come within warp jamming range anyway, so no big deal. If you are dampened, warp away, come back.
So cut the whining, nothing to see here, move on.
--
Stories: #1
--
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Sally
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Posted - 2004.07.06 14:57:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Hanns
Edited by: Hanns on 06/07/2004 14:04:29
Originally by: Sally
Can I have some cheese with your whine?
You are really pathetic Ca0 Ca0.
What is going to happen next? Whining about Stealthers killing Casters in DAoC?
Sally all i seem to find you doing on the forums is trolling, so you dont like cao cao, this dosent detract the fact Sensor Damps are overpowered!
First off, I do not disklike anyone here.
Then Sensor Dampeners have been in game like this for ages, they even got gimped by the stacking nerf.
Only because he didn't get to gank somone in a fleet battle doesn't make them overpowered. There are 3 kind of modules to counter them and drones + FoF for short range and if you lock someone up before he locks you up you are free to target jam or dampen him yourself.
Someone with dampeners will most likely not try to come within warp jamming range anyway, so no big deal. If you are dampened, warp away, come back.
So cut the whining, nothing to see here, move on.
--
Stories: #1
--
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Sochin
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Posted - 2004.07.06 17:38:00 -
[35]
Omfg ca0 isn't one thread whining about ECM enough? UNICOR may be an enemy of mine, but their tactics were perfectly sound. Hell, CA is known for it's highly effective use of E War, and we get compliments.
Nemo me impune lacessit
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Sochin
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Posted - 2004.07.06 17:38:00 -
[36]
Omfg ca0 isn't one thread whining about ECM enough? UNICOR may be an enemy of mine, but their tactics were perfectly sound. Hell, CA is known for it's highly effective use of E War, and we get compliments.
Nemo me impune lacessit
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Shamis Orzoz
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Posted - 2004.07.06 18:58:00 -
[37]
ECM's are balanced. The only reason Sensor dampners are so unbalanced is because you would think that a close range ship will defeat them, but it doesn't because it takes so long to lock while dampened. I think the solution is to cut the lock time penalty off of these things. Or at least make it do less with regards to lock time. Then a close range ship will kill dampener users fairly easily, which is how it should be.
Another option is to keep the slower lock time aspect of the dampners but decrease their effectiveness on limiting target range. That way frigates could use them to get close to a battleship and not get locked fast.
Another option which might work is to have 2 separte modules, one that reduces targeting range, and another that reduces targeting speed.
Shamis
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Shamis Orzoz
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Posted - 2004.07.06 18:58:00 -
[38]
ECM's are balanced. The only reason Sensor dampners are so unbalanced is because you would think that a close range ship will defeat them, but it doesn't because it takes so long to lock while dampened. I think the solution is to cut the lock time penalty off of these things. Or at least make it do less with regards to lock time. Then a close range ship will kill dampener users fairly easily, which is how it should be.
Another option is to keep the slower lock time aspect of the dampners but decrease their effectiveness on limiting target range. That way frigates could use them to get close to a battleship and not get locked fast.
Another option which might work is to have 2 separte modules, one that reduces targeting range, and another that reduces targeting speed.
Shamis
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Mortuus
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Posted - 2004.07.06 19:00:00 -
[39]
Simple, make 1 sensor booster negate 1 sensor dampener. There you go, now it has some way of being defeated. As it is right now it really is just a matter of having enough dampener scorps to jam up every enemy long enough for a few gunships to do the job.
They need to be brought into line with the other ECM modules. They shouldn't be the only thing that can make or break a battle.
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Mortuus
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Posted - 2004.07.06 19:00:00 -
[40]
Simple, make 1 sensor booster negate 1 sensor dampener. There you go, now it has some way of being defeated. As it is right now it really is just a matter of having enough dampener scorps to jam up every enemy long enough for a few gunships to do the job.
They need to be brought into line with the other ECM modules. They shouldn't be the only thing that can make or break a battle.
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Isonkon Serikain
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Posted - 2004.07.06 19:17:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Isonkon Serikain on 06/07/2004 19:19:37
You can still fight someone who jams you in a 1 vs 1... I've done it successfully in a rupture versus a BB... Perhaps a good bs pilot could hold his own against a scorp if he was prepared and had a good number of launchers.
SO that leaves fleet battles, where EW really is useful... If you read Cao's post he was ranting about his opponent fielding a bunch of scorps and outnumbering his side anyways. In this case, i'd say its unrealistic of Cao to expect to win, and he makes no point about the effectiveness or EW...
EW needs no nerfing as it is. A ships give up a lot of combat ability to use EW...
Cao, instead of whining, why don't you use it yourself? If it IS so powerful, take advantage of it, my friend.
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Isonkon Serikain
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Posted - 2004.07.06 19:17:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Isonkon Serikain on 06/07/2004 19:19:37
You can still fight someone who jams you in a 1 vs 1... I've done it successfully in a rupture versus a BB... Perhaps a good bs pilot could hold his own against a scorp if he was prepared and had a good number of launchers.
SO that leaves fleet battles, where EW really is useful... If you read Cao's post he was ranting about his opponent fielding a bunch of scorps and outnumbering his side anyways. In this case, i'd say its unrealistic of Cao to expect to win, and he makes no point about the effectiveness or EW...
EW needs no nerfing as it is. A ships give up a lot of combat ability to use EW...
Cao, instead of whining, why don't you use it yourself? If it IS so powerful, take advantage of it, my friend.
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Rhunako
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Posted - 2004.07.06 19:21:00 -
[43]
first of all ignore all the scorp pirates..er pilots here for a sec.(the arse holes always get in here first)
ECM ruining battles? they would be better without them for sure.
having your fleet made up of 50% ECM ships is how you win. that sucks we all know that.
ECM is just a bad idea.
50% for dampeners might be too much i guess. i think they should just cost way way way more cap. same for ECM
as for 1v1. thats not as bad
if its a scorp and you can tank at all it probably will have a real hard time getting your shields down(no experiance against raven)
if you get scrambled too just hope drones and maybe fof make you less of an attractive target :)
but yeah ECM sucks
fitting ECCM sucks more |
Rhunako
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Posted - 2004.07.06 19:21:00 -
[44]
first of all ignore all the scorp pirates..er pilots here for a sec.(the arse holes always get in here first)
ECM ruining battles? they would be better without them for sure.
having your fleet made up of 50% ECM ships is how you win. that sucks we all know that.
ECM is just a bad idea.
50% for dampeners might be too much i guess. i think they should just cost way way way more cap. same for ECM
as for 1v1. thats not as bad
if its a scorp and you can tank at all it probably will have a real hard time getting your shields down(no experiance against raven)
if you get scrambled too just hope drones and maybe fof make you less of an attractive target :)
but yeah ECM sucks
fitting ECCM sucks more |
Joshua Calvert
|
Posted - 2004.07.06 20:00:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Ca0 Ca0
TomB please for the love of God, can we get this **** sorted? ECM is ruining battles, it is really getting to the point that it comes down to how many scorpions you have versus how many scorpions the other side has.
And when you are always outnumbered, and fighting superior forces, what happens is that they match up one scorpion per each of your ships. ECM in general, and dampeners ESPECIALLY, is way overpowered . . . didn't you have a blog about upcoming changes? I remember they were very good suggestions, making it random and all. IMPLEMENT THEM NOW! Also read this thread for more details on how sucky ECM makes battles right now . . .
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=92000
Grr.
Cao
Brings back memories of fighting OC - they loved sensor dampeners on their frig fleets.
P.S: Your support for nerfing WCS counters your argument for nerfing sensor dampeners. WCS make it relatively less risky for a smaller fleet to engage a larger one.
P.P.S: Like WCS, sensor dampeners won't get looked at until EW gets its voerhaul.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2004.07.06 20:00:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Ca0 Ca0
TomB please for the love of God, can we get this **** sorted? ECM is ruining battles, it is really getting to the point that it comes down to how many scorpions you have versus how many scorpions the other side has.
And when you are always outnumbered, and fighting superior forces, what happens is that they match up one scorpion per each of your ships. ECM in general, and dampeners ESPECIALLY, is way overpowered . . . didn't you have a blog about upcoming changes? I remember they were very good suggestions, making it random and all. IMPLEMENT THEM NOW! Also read this thread for more details on how sucky ECM makes battles right now . . .
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=92000
Grr.
Cao
Brings back memories of fighting OC - they loved sensor dampeners on their frig fleets.
P.S: Your support for nerfing WCS counters your argument for nerfing sensor dampeners. WCS make it relatively less risky for a smaller fleet to engage a larger one.
P.P.S: Like WCS, sensor dampeners won't get looked at until EW gets its voerhaul.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Nybbas
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Posted - 2004.07.06 20:53:00 -
[47]
I just think that them having unlimited range makes them a bit cheap, other than that I think they are fine...
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Nybbas
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Posted - 2004.07.06 20:53:00 -
[48]
I just think that them having unlimited range makes them a bit cheap, other than that I think they are fine...
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Lamb Chop
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Posted - 2004.07.06 21:57:00 -
[49]
You don't see scorp pilots asking for the megathron armor to be reduced, or laser damage to be nerfed. You win some, you loose some...
[DVRN] Co-CEO Lamb Chop
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Lamb Chop
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Posted - 2004.07.06 21:57:00 -
[50]
You don't see scorp pilots asking for the megathron armor to be reduced, or laser damage to be nerfed. You win some, you loose some...
[DVRN] Co-CEO Lamb Chop
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Ca0 Ca0
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Posted - 2004.07.07 04:00:00 -
[51]
Josh Calvert,
I don't use WCS anyway. I find they are far too limiting to your ship setup to justify their usefulness (I've only lost 1 ship due to not having them).
Anyway just to clarify I am NOT talking about 1v1 situation here, honestly you people who come out and say "Ohh well just outfit for close range" or other nonsense are talking about 1v1 or 2v2 situations. Larger battles (10v10 or so and up) things get a lot different and you can't do them the same.
The lock time penalty kills any argument that you need to just get in close to kill. ECM I agree isn't so bad right now but dampeners are just plain cheese.
Sally what do you have against me? Dampeners are cheap, plain and simple, and they used tons of them. And no we didn't "lose" the battle in fact the other side warped away first. Nobody lost any ships, it was just the lamest thing that ever happened.
Cao
PS, it really is Cao Cao and not Ca0 Ca0 (my other account got perma-banned from the forums so I had to make this new char)
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Ca0 Ca0
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Posted - 2004.07.07 04:00:00 -
[52]
Josh Calvert,
I don't use WCS anyway. I find they are far too limiting to your ship setup to justify their usefulness (I've only lost 1 ship due to not having them).
Anyway just to clarify I am NOT talking about 1v1 situation here, honestly you people who come out and say "Ohh well just outfit for close range" or other nonsense are talking about 1v1 or 2v2 situations. Larger battles (10v10 or so and up) things get a lot different and you can't do them the same.
The lock time penalty kills any argument that you need to just get in close to kill. ECM I agree isn't so bad right now but dampeners are just plain cheese.
Sally what do you have against me? Dampeners are cheap, plain and simple, and they used tons of them. And no we didn't "lose" the battle in fact the other side warped away first. Nobody lost any ships, it was just the lamest thing that ever happened.
Cao
PS, it really is Cao Cao and not Ca0 Ca0 (my other account got perma-banned from the forums so I had to make this new char)
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Xelios
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Posted - 2004.07.07 04:03:00 -
[53]
Stop whining and fit a sensor booster or two. My god what is it with people and whining for nerfs these days? Just because you don't want to waste a med slot or two for sensor boosters the dampeners should be nerfed? Get a grip, your enemies have to waste their med slots to fit the damn things too.
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Xelios
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Posted - 2004.07.07 04:03:00 -
[54]
Stop whining and fit a sensor booster or two. My god what is it with people and whining for nerfs these days? Just because you don't want to waste a med slot or two for sensor boosters the dampeners should be nerfed? Get a grip, your enemies have to waste their med slots to fit the damn things too.
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Yggdrassil
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Posted - 2004.07.07 06:27:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Xelios
Stop whining and fit a sensor booster or two. My god what is it with people and whining for nerfs these days? Just because you don't want to waste a med slot or two for sensor boosters the dampeners should be nerfed? Get a grip, your enemies have to waste their med slots to fit the damn things too.
Following your logic:
I fit 2 sensor boosters, increasing my range from 80 to 180km.
Opponent fits 2 sensor dampeners, reducing it to 45km.
I fit 4 boosters := range 405km
He fits 4 dampers := range 25 km.
Balanced? No way!
Needs fixing.
Yggdrassil |
Yggdrassil
|
Posted - 2004.07.07 06:27:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Xelios
Stop whining and fit a sensor booster or two. My god what is it with people and whining for nerfs these days? Just because you don't want to waste a med slot or two for sensor boosters the dampeners should be nerfed? Get a grip, your enemies have to waste their med slots to fit the damn things too.
Following your logic:
I fit 2 sensor boosters, increasing my range from 80 to 180km.
Opponent fits 2 sensor dampeners, reducing it to 45km.
I fit 4 boosters := range 405km
He fits 4 dampers := range 25 km.
Balanced? No way!
Needs fixing.
Yggdrassil |
Earthan
|
Posted - 2004.07.07 06:47:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Ca0 Ca0
TomB please for the love of God, can we get this **** sorted? ECM is ruining battles, it is really getting to the point that it comes down to how many scorpions you have versus how many scorpions the other side has.
And when you are always outnumbered, and fighting superior forces, what happens is that they match up one scorpion per each of your ships. ECM in general, and dampeners ESPECIALLY, is way overpowered . . . didn't you have a blog about upcoming changes? I remember they were very good suggestions, making it random and all. IMPLEMENT THEM NOW! Also read this thread for more details on how sucky ECM makes battles right now . . .
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=92000
Grr.
Cao
I dont know if they are overpwoered or not but i hate jamming so im wiht you Cao
Stars, stars like dust, all around me.... |
Earthan
|
Posted - 2004.07.07 06:47:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Ca0 Ca0
TomB please for the love of God, can we get this **** sorted? ECM is ruining battles, it is really getting to the point that it comes down to how many scorpions you have versus how many scorpions the other side has.
And when you are always outnumbered, and fighting superior forces, what happens is that they match up one scorpion per each of your ships. ECM in general, and dampeners ESPECIALLY, is way overpowered . . . didn't you have a blog about upcoming changes? I remember they were very good suggestions, making it random and all. IMPLEMENT THEM NOW! Also read this thread for more details on how sucky ECM makes battles right now . . .
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=92000
Grr.
Cao
I dont know if they are overpwoered or not but i hate jamming so im wiht you Cao
Stars, stars like dust, all around me.... |
Xelios
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Posted - 2004.07.07 10:11:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Xelios on 07/07/2004 10:29:09
Quote:
Following your logic:
I fit 2 sensor boosters, increasing my range from 80 to 180km.
Opponent fits 2 sensor dampeners, reducing it to 45km.
I fit 4 boosters := range 405km
He fits 4 dampers := range 25 km.
Balanced? No way!
Needs fixing.
The game just needs to be able to cancel out effects. Ie. if you have a sensor booster and he has a damper on you it should skip the math and just say "look, they cancel, so lock range stays the same".
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Xelios
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Posted - 2004.07.07 10:11:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Xelios on 07/07/2004 10:29:09
Quote:
Following your logic:
I fit 2 sensor boosters, increasing my range from 80 to 180km.
Opponent fits 2 sensor dampeners, reducing it to 45km.
I fit 4 boosters := range 405km
He fits 4 dampers := range 25 km.
Balanced? No way!
Needs fixing.
The game just needs to be able to cancel out effects. Ie. if you have a sensor booster and he has a damper on you it should skip the math and just say "look, they cancel, so lock range stays the same".
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