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Restructuring and Rebalancing Salvage Thievery

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Joe Starbreaker Starbreaker Frigateers Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2008.12.22 07:33:00 - [61] Originally by: Ashley Thomas tbh, hats off to suddenly ninja. they are a deccable ninja salvaging entity in eve and greatly disliked by many mission runners. however, for all the hatred towards them there hasn't been a single wardec placed on them yet. what does that tell you? Answer: people aren't willing to fight over the salvage. There have actually been quite a few war declarations! ............. Now recruiting like-minded pilots.
Onys Cissalc	Posted - 2008.12.22 11:29:00 - [62] Damn, my post regarding that didn't get through... I'd pointed out that we were your first inverse dec :D ♥
shamai	Posted - 2008.12.22 12:01:00 - [63] Salvage is free mmmmm trit bars!
Accipitor Caldari	Posted - 2009.01.03 21:41:00 - [64] Originally by: Jesslyn Daggererux i am lazy. last thing id just like to say. i have heard that, in the beginning, jet cans did not give agro. da bears whined, it was changed. corp agro for stealing a can. and what is the primary use of stealing a can now? thats right...to get agro to trick nubs into pvp. what makes you think salvage agro would be any different? the only people youd stop salvaging is the somewhat honest guy who would warp into your mission, just salvage, and if you asked him to, may even leave. the rest of us will be able to skip a step. dont even need to loot anymore, just salvage for agro to get nubs to attack us. it would kind of be helping us. why would i tell you this? your whining annoys me. why should devs worry about a mechanic we will only exploit (negative connotation be damned, ill use it)further and instead work on real issues. stop whining, your only helping me...and annoying alot of people. is why i'm glad there is no timer on salvaging, a golem is an expensive ship to replace on the other note, while i'm missioning it's annoying to have some one warp in uninvited, i'd be more happier if they would stop that than change the way salvaging goes, i like shinny things. a drake and a 1965mustang have alot in common, they're cheap but thier fittings can get expensive. ./_ _ _ ___ __\ (]]]_ _ o _ _[[[) \|\_o_ __ ___o_/ \| \|__\|..............\|__\|
NightF0x Gallente Chicken Coup Raiders	Posted - 2009.01.03 23:45:00 - [65] Originally by: Accipitor Originally by: Jesslyn Daggererux i am lazy. last thing id just like to say. i have heard that, in the beginning, jet cans did not give agro. da bears whined, it was changed. corp agro for stealing a can. and what is the primary use of stealing a can now? thats right...to get agro to trick nubs into pvp. what makes you think salvage agro would be any different? the only people youd stop salvaging is the somewhat honest guy who would warp into your mission, just salvage, and if you asked him to, may even leave. the rest of us will be able to skip a step. dont even need to loot anymore, just salvage for agro to get nubs to attack us. it would kind of be helping us. why would i tell you this? your whining annoys me. why should devs worry about a mechanic we will only exploit (negative connotation be damned, ill use it)further and instead work on real issues. stop whining, your only helping me...and annoying alot of people. is why i'm glad there is no timer on salvaging, a golem is an expensive ship to replace on the other note, while i'm missioning it's annoying to have some one warp in uninvited, i'd be more happier if they would stop that than change the way salvaging goes, i like shinny things. I highly doubt that would happen any time soon. There should be some risk involved while making ISK. ------------------------------------
stubbles	Posted - 2009.01.04 17:14:00 - [66] If I leave my salvage there for an hour or something, then I'll agree that it's free game. But I've had a lot of people warp in WHILE I WAS FIGHTING and start looting my wrecks. That's right, my wrecks. See my corp name on it? That means it's mine. There's not a single mission that I don't salvage, but I do so after I have completed it (or at the very least, cleared the room). Missions don't pay worth crap, so I make my money from salvage (which I use for building stuff), and mission loot. When you come in and start stealing stuff, you're stealing my livelihood and I have no way of defending it. So honestly, how is that fair? There is ZERO risk for ninja salvagers outside of a wardec, which most hisec corps won't do because they're new players. You call mission runners carebears, yet there's no backlash for ninja salvagers. How is THAT not carebearing? We're simply asking to be allowed to defend our stuff. Make a salvager flash red, or at the very least, put a 30min timer on wrecks that prevent other people from salvaging for that duration.
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2009.01.04 17:41:00 - [67] Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 04/01/2009 17:42:12 Quote: That's right, my wrecks. See my corp name on it? That means it's mine. There's not a single mission that I don't salvage, but I do so after I have completed it (or at the very least, cleared the room). Missions don't pay worth crap, so I make my money from salvage (which I use for building stuff), and mission loot. The corp name means you own the loot, not the wreck itself. You used to have to empty the wreck itself before salvaging, meaning that you had to get aggro if you wanted to salvage. CCP changed this. I don't see them reverting it Quote: When you come in and start stealing stuff, you're stealing my livelihood and I have no way of defending it. So honestly, how is that fair? There is ZERO risk for ninja salvagers outside of a wardec, which most hisec corps won't do because they're new players. A missionrunner complaining about a low-risk way to make ISK. Either a troll or ignorant as hell. Quote: You call mission runners carebears, yet there's no backlash for ninja salvagers. How is THAT not carebearing? You're free to wardec us any time . Quote: We're simply asking to be allowed to defend our stuff. Make a salvager flash red, or at the very least, put a 30min timer on wrecks that prevent other people from salvaging for that duration. Not your stuff. If you want to defend stuff that is not yours, move to lowsec. Originally by: Catharacta My CNR runs on salvager tears.
stubbles	Posted - 2009.01.04 18:32:00 - [68] Yeah, running L4's are so very low risk. Go bury your head in the sand again.
Lei Merdeau Gallente	Posted - 2009.01.13 11:56:00 - [69] Edited by: Lei Merdeau on 13/01/2009 12:00:35 I'm a newbie CareBear and I hate this idea. It would destroy my initial career of salvaging wrecks in non mission space that no one else wants. They just want the bounties. True, its mostly crap. That's why so few want it, and what creates the niche. The salvage I sell would have mostly been lost to the void. More resources for industry!
Grigo M. Corp Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2009.01.13 12:08:00 - [70] Originally by: OldWolfe On the mission runner’s side The only way we can fight them is by the following: -Shoot them and kill them and hope they do not have friends standing by -Shoot them and hope they don’t have a PVP ship standing by wrong...u get poped by concord if u shot someone salvaging ure wrecks...they do NOT get agro do not mistake salvaging whit looting ninja salvagers are from my part a verry big problem in empire..there is absolutly no risk ...but usualy a lot of reward...it is basicly safer then empire mining so any idea that will get a risk in that "miniprofesion" is cool whit me...
Joe Starbreaker Starbreaker Frigateers	Posted - 2009.01.13 17:46:00 - [71] Originally by: Grigo ninja salvagers are from my part a verry big problem in empire..there is absolutly no risk ...but usualy a lot of reward...it is basicly safer then empire mining so any idea that will get a risk in that "miniprofesion" is cool whit me... Absolutely no risk? What's your basis for comparison... mission running perhaps? Ninja salvage is far more risky than mission running, at least. Missions in highsec are the problem.
Cedric Diggory Perfunctory Oleaginous Laocoon Mugwumps	Posted - 2009.01.13 17:52:00 - [72] If you want some recourse for taking out those who come and salvage wrecks that you feel in some way "belong" to you, move out to lowsec and you can freely shoot whoever you like then. If that doesn't appeal to you then either salvage as you go or tough luck, because salvaging is not a crime. Originally by: "Oxford English Dictionary" Salvage Verb save from ruin, destruction, or harm collect discarded or refused material
Fullmetal Jackass	Posted - 2009.01.13 22:48:00 - [73] Originally by: KaiserSoze434 The only possible change I can think of that doesnt undermine the entire mechanic is to make mission areas free fire zones for the runners. Whenever a player enters a mission area that isnt theirs they get a warning. "You are entering a concord sanctioned military operation. (player) has the authority to engage all targets within the operational area at his discretion." It fits with the story aspect of the game, and the mission runner has the ability to shoot first to defend the wrecks, if he has the balls. This --^ Salvage all you like, if you enter MY combat zone, you should get no concord protection.
Camilo Cienfuegos Earned In Blood	Posted - 2009.01.13 23:13:00 - [74] Quote: Salvage all you like, if you enter MY combat zone, you should get no concord protection. Only if the same applies to the mission runner...
Fullmetal Jackass	Posted - 2009.01.13 23:38:00 - [75] I know, why don't we just turn concord off. Then eve can be the harsh and lawless world you all claim it to be. Let's see how long people continue to pay when they can't be reasonably safe anywhere. As it is now ninja slavaging is risk free. The salvager gets concord protection as he reaps reward for work someone else did. Salvaging wrecks in someone else's mission is little more then griefing. Salvage has substantial market value. Taking somthing of value, that somone else creates, is theft. Concord won't respond to theft, but neither should it protect thieves.
Camilo Cienfuegos Earned In Blood	Posted - 2009.01.14 00:03:00 - [76] Originally by: Cedric Diggory If you want some recourse for taking out those who come and salvage wrecks that you feel in some way "belong" to you, move out to lowsec and you can freely shoot whoever you like then. If that doesn't appeal to you then either salvage as you go or tough luck, because salvaging is not a crime. Originally by: "Oxford English Dictionary" Salvage Verb save from ruin, destruction, or harm collect discarded or refused material Note the bold in that, but generally just QFT. Salvaging has been said to be a mini profession time and time again, making it flaggable or breaking the Concord protection in any area of high sec would open one huge great can of worms. That's why I posted what I did; you really, really wouldn't like what we could do with an opening like the one suggested for mission running.
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2009.01.14 00:28:00 - [77] Read up To quote the pure epicness that is PrismX's post: Quote: Why is stealing salvage OK? It's not. It shouldn't even be possible to move an item from your cargo-hold / hanger to another persons cargo-hold / hanger without opening a trade window. Before the salvage enters those containers it is not considered your stuff by the server code. Hence it's not stealing. If you're surprised as to why the server does not consider it your stuff, it's because it's a mini profession designed for people who want to roam and look for salvage, not to further increase the revenue from mission grinding.. I doubt anyone with a perspective thinks we need to high-sec increase mission grinding any further. Simple solution to the non-issue. Please don't take this as any bashing just for suggesting ideas. I have nothing against brainstorming on the forums. However, I'm going to let you in on a little CCP non-secret which is: "NPE". Wink EVE is a really hostile game. We love how hostile it is.. we never meant for it to be a breeze. However, it's also accepted that, on top of the intended complexity, the tools and rules you play with/by aren't highly intuative. You are suggesting a dual functionality.. one for newbies and another for vets (of course you did not say that, however just because some people chill in newb corps and ain't newbs doesn't mean we should punish the new players) and to compound the inherent confusion in that the newbie functionality is more hostile and more open to griefing than the veteran functionality. It shouldn't be much different.. and if it had to be it should be the other way around.
Red Flag	Posted - 2009.01.14 07:46:00 - [78] I didn't bother reading more then the first paragraph and a half of the first post, but I believe salvaging someone's wreck should have the same effect as taking from a can. Red Flag Poet, Prophet, Pirate
Sokratesz Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2009.01.14 09:16:00 - [79] There are no ninja salvagers in 0.0 and lowsec, you should check it out. Stop whining.
ollobrains2 Gallente New Eve Order Holdings	Posted - 2009.01.14 10:21:00 - [80] my proposal a few months back was this leaving all existing things as they are wrecks-cans will now stay active in space for 6 hours 2 hours loot cans - loot are exclusive to those that create them wrecks remain common property After 2 hours up to 6 hours said cans-wrecks become visiable and scannable to all perhaps with existing probes. During that 2-6 hour period if they are uncliamed by the owner under 2 hours they become findable scannable and accessible to anyone ( will also give in low sec areas) scavangers and corp mates who run in the same area a chance to stumble across missions, amols and belt wrecks-loot and pickup. This will put more items into the market, or simply for melting. And will make salvage, cleanup and general ninja professions more acceptible Will also fulfill ccps promise of making wrecks scannable The important point here is under 2 hours wrecks will not be scannable with probes or onboard scanner.. THey will remain the property of the owner aned they can only be scanned with the usual drone-ship scanning situation we have now. Perhaps to satisify the carebears a 30 minute salvage timer can be implemented from time of creation giving them the rights to shoot anyone who salvages under 30 minutes perhaps a new colour wreck-can ( might also be extendable to general loot cans also) so under 30 minutes - exclusive kill rights on salvage+looting - blue can or wreck 30 min - 2 hour = yellow existing system kill rights for loot not salvage 2-6 hours free for all all wrecks scannable. Comment
ollobrains2 Gallente New Eve Order Holdings	Posted - 2009.01.14 10:22:00 - [81] my proposal a few months back was this leaving all existing things as they are wrecks-cans will now stay active in space for 6 hours 2 hours loot cans - loot are exclusive to those that create them wrecks remain common property After 2 hours up to 6 hours said cans-wrecks become visiable and scannable to all perhaps with existing probes. During that 2-6 hour period if they are uncliamed by the owner under 2 hours they become findable scannable and accessible to anyone ( will also give in low sec areas) scavangers and corp mates who run in the same area a chance to stumble across missions, amols and belt wrecks-loot and pickup. This will put more items into the market, or simply for melting. And will make salvage, cleanup and general ninja professions more acceptible Will also fulfill ccps promise of making wrecks scannable The important point here is under 2 hours wrecks will not be scannable with probes or onboard scanner.. THey will remain the property of the owner aned they can only be scanned with the usual drone-ship scanning situation we have now. Perhaps to satisify the carebears a 30 minute salvage timer can be implemented from time of creation giving them the rights to shoot anyone who salvages under 30 minutes perhaps a new colour wreck-can ( might also be extendable to general loot cans also) so under 30 minutes - exclusive kill rights on salvage+looting - blue can or wreck 30 min - 2 hour = yellow existing system kill rights for loot not salvage 2-6 hours free for all all wrecks scannable. Comment
Rondo Gunn Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2009.01.14 10:35:00 - [82] No. Salvage is free for all. If someone risks your wrath by looting your wrecks that's one thing. First come first served I say. Stop trying to take EVE's teeth away. What, do you want to turn this into? Hello Kitty Online? World of Whiners? I mean honestly, grow a pair, please.
Elena Morin'staal Minmatar Tau Online Explorator Corp	Posted - 2009.01.14 12:17:00 - [83] When the bin man comes once a week to take my trash away, I don't *** that he removed it before I could. Let me say as a mission running carebear, I'd rather not have some git come and salvage the wrecks I leave, as I want the ISKies. But wrecks are just that - **, detritus, crap, trash. If someone gets the wrecks before I can, then bum. Time for the next mission.
Grigo M. Corp Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2009.01.14 12:25:00 - [84] Originally by: Joe Starbreaker Originally by: Grigo ninja salvagers are from my part a verry big problem in empire..there is absolutly no risk ...but usualy a lot of reward...it is basicly safer then empire mining so any idea that will get a risk in that "miniprofesion" is cool whit me... Absolutely no risk? What's your basis for comparison... mission running perhaps? Ninja salvage is far more risky than mission running, at least. Missions in highsec are the problem. dude...ninja salvage is 0 risk on any meters compared to anything...if u mine in 0.9 and under u atleast get rats(hily unlikly to kill u but still) salvaging other peoples wrecks is 0(nada,nothing,minic) risk....u dont get agro...u cant get hurt by the owner or by the rats(if there still are any left wen u get there) as there already agresed on the owner.... if all ninja salvagers say they are salvaging from people that leave there wrecks...well LOL and also get a agres timer on the wrecks for 30 min...meaning u get agresed if u salvage a wreck that is younger then 30 min... so get some risk to this "miniprofesion" and im ok whit it...till then i still consider it lame and a bug in my books... RO Originally by: Avernus ...some kudos to using your main to post like an asshat though... doesn't really take balls though, you're on the internet.
Grigo M. Corp Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2009.01.14 12:30:00 - [85] Originally by: Rondo Gunn No. Salvage is free for all. If someone risks your wrath by looting your wrecks that's one thing. First come first served I say. Stop trying to take EVE's teeth away. What, do you want to turn this into? Hello Kitty Online? World of Whiners? I mean honestly, grow a pair, please. actualy u should grow a pare...geting agresion from salvaging makes it posible for more pvp in hisec...so u just flamed ureself RO Originally by: Avernus ...some kudos to using your main to post like an asshat though... doesn't really take balls though, you're on the internet.

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