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Kuolematon Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2008.11.12 07:13:00 - [1] Hello, Seems like few people are doing nice PLEX manipulation. Jita is around 410m highest ones. Let's keep up the pace people. Before xmas 500m should be broken, c/d? "The Amarr are the tanking and ganking floating rods of ~~gold~~crap"
Frenden Dax	Posted - 2008.11.12 07:29:00 - [2] Only 311m or so in Rens at the moment, we're slacking apparently. Prediction: eventually PLEXs will peak out at 300m, and will rarely if ever go below 250m.
Hesod Adee Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2008.11.12 07:49:00 - [3] My prediction is that a lot of people will move alts into Jita (if they haven't already) to deal with PLEX trading. Increasing the volume of them traded. And the higher the trading volume is, the harder it is to manipulate the prices. ---------------------------------------------- I support skill queues.
Linia Gallente Linia Corp	Posted - 2008.11.12 16:01:00 - [4] Bumping up prices on GTC is just lame and waste of your time lols They will stay half the price of what 60 days is, logically The idea with alt in jita, good idea, omw there ^^
Jei'son Bladesmith The Storm Knights The Cool Kids Club	Posted - 2008.11.12 23:22:00 - [5] Originally by: Linia Bumping up prices on GTC is just lame and waste of your time lols They will stay half the price of what 60 days is, logically The idea with alt in jita, good idea, omw there ^^ log-ic-al? Sorry, I play EVE, what is this word you speak of?
ebonyivory	Posted - 2008.11.12 23:48:00 - [6] technically they could go higher as players may buy them because they cannot afford the 60 day but can spare say 350mil for a 30 day even though thats 700mil for 60 days
Eana Caldari	Posted - 2008.11.13 00:08:00 - [7] ~190 Traded volume @Jita, High 460m, low 270m, Avg 308m The price, thus far, is slowly going downwards from the days opening price of ~400m and it looks like the price is set to keep falling for a while the lowest orders are at 303m o.O
Nissan Sentra Directive Of Creations.	Posted - 2008.11.13 01:28:00 - [8] In tash, we have 0 sell orders and highest buy is 200 mill. 3 have been traded since the patch. NS
Havok Pierce Gallente D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.11.13 02:05:00 - [9] Originally by: Eana ~190 Traded volume @Jita, High 460m, low 270m, Avg 308m The price, thus far, is slowly going downwards from the days opening price of ~400m and it looks like the price is set to keep falling for a while the lowest orders are at 303m 0.01 ISKing... somehow improving someone's game experience? NOOOOES! Originally by: CCP Wrangler There's a Community petition category??
Carniflex Caldari StarHunt Fallout Project	Posted - 2008.11.14 11:53:00 - [10] Yep. Seems like it has somewhat stabilized around 300 m in jita. A bit faster than I expected to be honest - was expecting at least few weeks of high volatility with them. So around 300 m sell orders and around 290 m buy orders with the usual dreamers in the mix with region wide 100 m buys and 400+ m sellers.
Tiirae The New Era HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2008.11.14 12:01:00 - [11] Edited by: Tiirae on 14/11/2008 12:02:44 As mentioned earlier, these will settle about 20% higher per-day-of-playtime than the 60-day cards because someone might be able to afford 350m for this but not 550m for a 60-day. This is standard in situations like this. I'm more interested in the manipulation thing. I do not believe this market can be manipulated effectively. This is because it's not like an in-game resource; there is no practical limit to how many people will decide to trade real life cash for GTC to sell. If you manipulate the price upward, it becomes a more attractive thing to do and more people will do it. You will be fighting against the flood and every buy you make will make the flood rise higher. Alternatively, you could attempt to crash the market, by spending a RL cash yourself for a ton of cards and selling them cheaply as needed to keep the price down; you buy up the cards that follow you down, then resell later once equilibrium has been restored. But this would take a LOT of real cash to do, I doubt anyone here is quite that lame. Or am I a clueless noob?
Cergorach Amarr The Helix Foundation	Posted - 2008.11.14 12:30:00 - [12] Originally by: Tiirae Or am I a clueless noob? No and yes... While you can crash the market by spending RL cash, you can also do it by spending in game isk. I considered doing so this morning, buy a few sell orders to fill a few buy orders, thus lowering the highest buy order. I didn't think it was profitable at this time, mostly because I expect the market to correct itself downward in the next few days/weeks. While you would be right that two 30 day GTCs would fetch a higher price then a single 60 day GTC, for exactly the reasons you described. But only if you where selling them on an equal market, which isn't the case here. Selling the 60 day GTC requires the use of the forum, it doesn't allow for instant gratification. The 30 day license on the other hand does offer instant gratification (by filling buy orders) or even a faster turn around when using a sell order. I actually expect that more people will start using the in game market then the forum, and because you can only reactivate an inactive account through the forum, I'll expect that they might actually be more expensive (untill the difference gets to big and a few people will sell a few more through the forum (thus lowering the prices).
SencneS Amarr Rebellion Against big Irreversible Dinks	Posted - 2008.11.14 21:36:00 - [13] Logically the best way to get the cheapest PLEX would be to buy one from the market, use it, then place a buy order for considerably cheaper then everyone else, say 200mil for 30 days. If it fills great, if it doesn't then you're buy order is just there to server the purpose of lowering the over all regional average. I was actually expecting the buy orders to dominate the screen on this one. People offering up buy orders so sellers can get that "Instant Gratification" everyone talks about. See it's all about "need" people sell GTC to get ISK because they need something expensive. No one uses RL Cash to get ISK this way, just for the sake of getting ISK. There is a reason behind it the need to have the ISK. It just so happens that people need to buy time. However people have more options available to them to get "Time". They can use a Credit Card, the many vendors around the world, or use the forum, or now in game. So it's a Time Buyers market. Which means the sellers are not really in control here. For that reason I expected to see hundreds of Buy orders and just a handful of extremely over price sell orders. If you're buying GTC's with RL Cash just to sell them on the market to get 1B (500 every 30days) then I wish you luck to be honest. If you buy a GTC to get quick ISK, it's likely you'll just fill a buy order. The stabilization point is when the players that need the time buy from a sell order rather then placing a buy order. When that hits then it will be stabilize and be very little movement in the market. Could be a dangerous thing to manipulate these ones.
Gonzo Hadron Gracious Bodily Harm	Posted - 2008.11.15 13:45:00 - [14] Originally by: SencneS If it fills great, if it doesn't then you're buy order is just there to server the purpose of lowering the over all regional average. This is completely incorrect. Unfulfilled buy orders won't lower the regional average. Only fulfilled orders have any influence over the regional average.
Dariah Stardweller	Posted - 2008.11.15 15:52:00 - [15] Originally by: SencneS I was actually expecting the buy orders to dominate the screen on this one. People offering up buy orders so sellers can get that "Instant Gratification" everyone talks about. See it's all about "need" people sell GTC to get ISK because they need something expensive. No one uses RL Cash to get ISK this way, just for the sake of getting ISK. There is a reason behind it the need to have the ISK. I never quite got it. Are these GTC sellers extremely wealthy or something? I wouldn't dream of spending 35$ to get 600 million isk. Who are the ppl that do this I wonder?
ebonyivory	Posted - 2008.11.15 16:32:00 - [16] plez prices are now 300 mil per so i guess you were wrong however feel free to manipulate the prices so i can laugh at the carebears
Tiirae The New Era HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2008.11.15 16:39:00 - [17] Originally by: Dariah Stardweller Originally by: SencneS I was actually expecting the buy orders to dominate the screen on this one. People offering up buy orders so sellers can get that "Instant Gratification" everyone talks about. See it's all about "need" people sell GTC to get ISK because they need something expensive. No one uses RL Cash to get ISK this way, just for the sake of getting ISK. There is a reason behind it the need to have the ISK. I never quite got it. Are these GTC sellers extremely wealthy or something? I wouldn't dream of spending 35$ to get 600 million isk. Who are the ppl that do this I wonder? You're kidding, right? One hour of labour in the real world earns me enough to buy a few 60-day codes. Not going to say exactly how many but the point is that I can spend the trifling sum of $35 and avoid the many many hours it would take to earn the same ISK running missions or whatever. Even a gas station attendant's hourly rate would let them buy ISK far far easier than grinding it out in-game. If you are trading or manufacturing, things are different. I can make 3 or 4 billion ISK profit in a week and buying that much via GTCs would cost me more real life cash than I could possibly justify spending on a game. But for a lot of people, they only get to play on the weekends and they do NOT want to spend their limited game time grinding missions so they can pew-pew for one hour. They would rather buy the GTCs and spend all weekend pew-pewing. This is totally rational. What's more remarkable is that there are people who spend 30 hours ingame to earn the same isk that they could buy with GTCs with one or two hours real-life effort.
Carniflex Caldari StarHunt Fallout Project	Posted - 2008.11.16 07:17:00 - [18] Originally by: Tiirae What's more remarkable is that there are people who spend 30 hours ingame to earn the same isk that they could buy with GTCs with one or two hours real-life effort. They usually have their reasons, even if it would make more sense for them to sell codes from effort/reward standpoint. In my impression in majority of cases those reasons are emotional - ie. principle of not using RL cash for virtual items, not paying for more than one account with RL cash, etc etc. Have even seen statements, that GTC sellers are evil and cheating and in those rants both sides have their valid reasons for claims either way.
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.11.16 08:08:00 - [19] Originally by: Tiirae What's more remarkable is that there are people who spend 30 hours ingame to earn the same isk that they could buy with GTCs with one or two hours real-life effort. Originally by: Carniflex They usually have their reasons, even if it would make more sense for them to sell codes from effort/reward standpoint. Okay, some weeks I may spend more than 30 hours in eve. Some weeks less, even a few where I spent more. However I've never found the need or desire to supplement my isk resources via any other means than what is available in game. (I do buy gtc time with my isk though - why not?) I do not think that it is evil nor lame to gain isk via GTC sales. Within my circle of friends it is well known that I'm readily available to buy GTC(s) from someone feeling the need. Alot of PvP friends do that with me. The reason I do all of my isk gain from in game is the same reason I think a carpenter might choose to use a hammer instead of a nail gun. There are times, and activities, where even if a speedier alternative exists it is more satisfying (to the individual) to do it .... old fashioned. Eve allows me to bring the power of my wit, intellect, and determination to bear in ways real life does not allow me. I enjoy this so much I choose not to sully my experience, and satisfaction, by bringing to bear my wallet as well. In conclusion, if I kick your butt know it was simply because I'm better than you. I have a new clone, her skill points are quite low but i forsee vast potential. Born at 05:56 18-Oct-08, weighing 7 lbs 12 oz, and was named Lara Florence. Mother & baby doing well - Dylythium
Lieutenant Obvious Caldari Thundercats RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.16 11:04:00 - [20] Originally by: Tiirae Originally by: Dariah Stardweller I never quite got it. Are these GTC sellers extremely wealthy or something? I wouldn't dream of spending 35$ to get 600 million isk. Who are the ppl that do this I wonder? You're kidding, right? One hour of labour in the real world earns me enough to buy a few 60-day codes. Not going to say exactly how many but the point is that I can spend the trifling sum of $35 and avoid the many many hours it would take to earn the same ISK running missions or whatever. Even a gas station attendant's hourly rate would let them buy ISK far far easier than grinding it out in-game. US$35 (or $70 if you're gonna "buy a few 60-day codes") per hour is a pretty significant wage, so you're basically refuting his claim by stating that because you make a shedload of money and can afford it other people are idiots for not doing so? Get some perspective, people who have less than you do are probably having to worry about a lot more also. Money doesn't grow on trees.
Erin Lay	Posted - 2008.11.16 11:26:00 - [21] there are people who use their isk to buy all kinds of faction/officer mods only to fit a ship they will never use. And others who use their isk to buy plexes for an alt account. both things, expensive mods and alt accounts, can be seen as ingame items people want to own. ppl saying you can have more isk with rl work instead of farming imply that everyone should buy their isk through plexes. And that wont work!
Dariah Stardweller	Posted - 2008.11.16 15:21:00 - [22] Originally by: Tiirae Originally by: Dariah Stardweller Originally by: SencneS I was actually expecting the buy orders to dominate the screen on this one. People offering up buy orders so sellers can get that "Instant Gratification" everyone talks about. See it's all about "need" people sell GTC to get ISK because they need something expensive. No one uses RL Cash to get ISK this way, just for the sake of getting ISK. There is a reason behind it the need to have the ISK. I never quite got it. Are these GTC sellers extremely wealthy or something? I wouldn't dream of spending 35$ to get 600 million isk. Who are the ppl that do this I wonder? You're kidding, right? One hour of labour in the real world earns me enough to buy a few 60-day codes. Not going to say exactly how many but the point is that I can spend the trifling sum of $35 and avoid the many many hours it would take to earn the same ISK running missions or whatever. Even a gas station attendant's hourly rate would let them buy ISK far far easier than grinding it out in-game. If you are trading or manufacturing, things are different. I can make 3 or 4 billion ISK profit in a week and buying that much via GTCs would cost me more real life cash than I could possibly justify spending on a game. But for a lot of people, they only get to play on the weekends and they do NOT want to spend their limited game time grinding missions so they can pew-pew for one hour. They would rather buy the GTCs and spend all weekend pew-pewing. This is totally rational. What's more remarkable is that there are people who spend 30 hours ingame to earn the same isk that they could buy with GTCs with one or two hours real-life effort. Well, I make about 11 euro b4 taxes an hour and 35$ is a lot for me. If 35$ is nothing but small change I can understand but still. It's just a game...
Kyra Felann Gallente Noctis Fleet Technologies	Posted - 2008.11.16 17:53:00 - [23] Originally by: Dariah Stardweller Are these GTC sellers extremely wealthy or something? I wouldn't dream of spending 35$ to get 600 million isk. Who are the ppl that do this I wonder? I have a few times. The reason why is because I could make $35 at my real job much faster than I could make 600 mil or however much in Eve. That and I could spare $35 dollars, which isn't that much money.
Jonna Andromedae	Posted - 2008.11.16 18:56:00 - [24] PLEX Cartel? Anyone? 30 days to 1 B ISK by christmas?
Jonna Andromedae	Posted - 2008.11.16 18:57:00 - [25] Originally by: Dariah Stardweller Well, I make about 11 euro b4 taxes an hour and 35$ is a lot for me. If 35$ is nothing but small change I can understand but still. It's just a game... And you spend about 200$ to fancy restourant and the outcome is the same ****ty what it would be by eating at home while pew pewing without having to grind
Serenity Steele Dynamic Data Distribution Ministry of Information	Posted - 2008.11.16 19:01:00 - [26] Originally by: Kyra Felann I have a few times. The reason why is because I could make $35 at my real job much faster than I could make 600 mil or however much in Eve. That and I could spare $35 dollars, which isn't that much money. The debate around In-Game time versus RL time for earning isk only works if people have the opportunity to earn more money or disposible income. Ie. Given an (easy) choice of "Do something extra in RL for $35 for 1 hour" or "Do something in Eve for 30hrs", the first choice doesn't exist for a lot of people, so they do something in EVE for 30 hours instead. ≡v≡ Strategic Maps in Eve-Online Store \| eve-maps.com
The Slagh	Posted - 2008.11.16 19:11:00 - [27] I wish Bill Gates played EVE.
Tasko Pal Heron Corporation	Posted - 2008.11.16 22:30:00 - [28] Originally by: Serenity Steele The debate around In-Game time versus RL time for earning isk only works if people have the opportunity to earn more money or disposible income. Ie. Given an (easy) choice of "Do something extra in RL for $35 for 1 hour" or "Do something in Eve for 30hrs", the first choice doesn't exist for a lot of people, so they do something in EVE for 30 hours instead. Eh, I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. Lot of people have jobs. And for people who have a job, internet access, and play Eve, a GTC is probably the equivalent of no more than a few hours of real world labor. OTOH, 600 million isk is the equivalent of around 30-60 hours of grind for the typical user. If you want to spend your time shooting stuff rather than grinding, then GTC selling is the way to go.
Bloody Rabbit Jita Miners	Posted - 2008.11.16 23:46:00 - [29] Originally by: Tasko Pal Originally by: Serenity Steele The debate around In-Game time versus RL time for earning isk only works if people have the opportunity to earn more money or disposible income. Ie. Given an (easy) choice of "Do something extra in RL for $35 for 1 hour" or "Do something in Eve for 30hrs", the first choice doesn't exist for a lot of people, so they do something in EVE for 30 hours instead. Eh, I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. Lot of people have jobs. And for people who have a job, internet access, and play Eve, a GTC is probably the equivalent of no more than a few hours of real world labor. OTOH, 600 million isk is the equivalent of around 30-60 hours of grind for the typical user. If you want to spend your time shooting stuff rather than grinding, then GTC selling is the way to go. This, Now I know I'm blessed because I live in the USA and I have a college degree but still I go out and find work and make money. Same idea that eve player has except that I do it in a world that pays in paper and they do it in a world that pays them in 1's and 0's.
Khrillian Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2008.11.17 10:38:00 - [30] Originally by: Shar Tegral The reason I do all of my isk gain from in game is the same reason I think a carpenter might choose to use a hammer instead of a nail gun. There are times, and activities, where even if a speedier alternative exists it is more satisfying (to the individual) to do it .... old fashioned. Eve allows me to bring the power of my wit, intellect, and determination to bear in ways real life does not allow me. I enjoy this so much I choose not to sully my experience, and satisfaction, by bringing to bear my wallet as well. I guess if you have a **ty job you probably don't have very many opportunities to use your human capital, but you probably have a **ty job because you don't have much human capital in the first place. So I really don't see how EVE is going to allow you to use your intelligence/human capital a whole lot more than real life. If the carpenter is just trying to work efficiently, then if he doesn't use the cost-minimizing means of production he's just being dumb. In EVE - it makes no sense to mine for 30 hours when you can work irl for 2 for the same income, but only if mining is more like a job than something to do for fun.

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