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Shevar
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Posted - 2004.07.07 02:20:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: BH Hammerhead
Switching ammo would have increased you chance to hit drastically.
You surely mean switching ammo and actually move to the reaches of that ammo's optimal range? Or does ammo actually change the to hit formula? AFAIK the reason why he cant hit anything is because of tracking issues, futher away there are less tracking issues but I fail to see what ammo has got to do with it.
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-The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
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Shevar
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Posted - 2004.07.07 02:20:00 -
[32]
Originally by: BH Hammerhead
Switching ammo would have increased you chance to hit drastically.
You surely mean switching ammo and actually move to the reaches of that ammo's optimal range? Or does ammo actually change the to hit formula? AFAIK the reason why he cant hit anything is because of tracking issues, futher away there are less tracking issues but I fail to see what ammo has got to do with it.
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-The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
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Venril
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Posted - 2004.07.07 02:49:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Venril on 07/07/2004 02:54:07
Only real problem I have is missing a battleship thats moving. I still have to move to match the transverse. If turret can't track a ship as slow as a battleship its broke. If one has a webber and the other one doesn't. The ship thats webbed isn't going to hit crap. Need to fix that.
As far as missing cruisers so much. my blasters hit them for crap when there close and I have an optimal of 3300m. The game was alot better before they "balanced turrets" Now I have a an apoc rusting away in a hanger simply because guns are obsolete.
Just use torps in a raven and there ya have it. Much better DPS.
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Venril
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Posted - 2004.07.07 02:49:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Venril on 07/07/2004 02:54:07
Only real problem I have is missing a battleship thats moving. I still have to move to match the transverse. If turret can't track a ship as slow as a battleship its broke. If one has a webber and the other one doesn't. The ship thats webbed isn't going to hit crap. Need to fix that.
As far as missing cruisers so much. my blasters hit them for crap when there close and I have an optimal of 3300m. The game was alot better before they "balanced turrets" Now I have a an apoc rusting away in a hanger simply because guns are obsolete.
Just use torps in a raven and there ya have it. Much better DPS.
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LJSilver
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Posted - 2004.07.07 03:20:00 -
[35]
Edited by: LJSilver on 07/07/2004 03:45:05
Originally by: Iece Quaan
Let me also state that I AM an interceptor pvp pilot. I should be yelling and screaming about these changes because I am basically immune to BS turrets now. Except, im not. I barely fly my thron as it is, stuff like this will make me permanently mothball it.
heh, yup, soon as they make one ship immune to a BS, that's the only ship peeps will fly.
Kinda obvious.
LOL, when drones and SB's are nerfed, BS's will need protection from 2K isk empire npc's. Heh, they be just 8 turret mining scows now.
They's getting ready to release the new ship descriptions:
Quote:
Only those in disfavor with the Emperor are to be punished by commanding one of the meek and pitiful Apocalypse class mining ships. These metallic monstrosities see to it that the emperor is a laughing stock among the denizens of the Empire and Beyond. Special ability: Easily ganked by condors and not able to hit the broadside of a barn
http://www.liketelevision.com/web1/classictv/longjohn/longjohn210.gif |
LJSilver
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Posted - 2004.07.07 03:20:00 -
[36]
Edited by: LJSilver on 07/07/2004 03:45:05
Originally by: Iece Quaan
Let me also state that I AM an interceptor pvp pilot. I should be yelling and screaming about these changes because I am basically immune to BS turrets now. Except, im not. I barely fly my thron as it is, stuff like this will make me permanently mothball it.
heh, yup, soon as they make one ship immune to a BS, that's the only ship peeps will fly.
Kinda obvious.
LOL, when drones and SB's are nerfed, BS's will need protection from 2K isk empire npc's. Heh, they be just 8 turret mining scows now.
They's getting ready to release the new ship descriptions:
Quote:
Only those in disfavor with the Emperor are to be punished by commanding one of the meek and pitiful Apocalypse class mining ships. These metallic monstrosities see to it that the emperor is a laughing stock among the denizens of the Empire and Beyond. Special ability: Easily ganked by condors and not able to hit the broadside of a barn
http://www.liketelevision.com/web1/classictv/longjohn/longjohn210.gif |
Dark Jester
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Posted - 2004.07.07 04:00:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Dark Jester on 07/07/2004 04:01:32
Originally by: KR SUN
Your 350 rails have 1/4 of their tracking due to frig sig radius.
Dont they have 1/10 of the tracking against figs ? Frigates sig radius has been lowered to ~40.
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2004.07.08 14:50:50combatYour 1400mm Howitzer Artillery I perfectly strikes Rogue Pirate Escort, wrecking for 836.2 damage.
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Dark Jester
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Posted - 2004.07.07 04:00:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Dark Jester on 07/07/2004 04:01:32
Originally by: KR SUN
Your 350 rails have 1/4 of their tracking due to frig sig radius.
Dont they have 1/10 of the tracking against figs ? Frigates sig radius has been lowered to ~40.
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2004.07.08 14:50:50combatYour 1400mm Howitzer Artillery I perfectly strikes Rogue Pirate Escort, wrecking for 836.2 damage.
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Shia Dai
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Posted - 2004.07.07 04:04:00 -
[39]
Wow there is a lot of whining going on in this thread. The latest changes are the best thing for combat. So your battleship with large turrets isn't the be-all and end-all multi-tasking guru anymore? tough beans. Bring a friend or alter your setup.
Shia
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Shia Dai
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Posted - 2004.07.07 04:04:00 -
[40]
Wow there is a lot of whining going on in this thread. The latest changes are the best thing for combat. So your battleship with large turrets isn't the be-all and end-all multi-tasking guru anymore? tough beans. Bring a friend or alter your setup.
Shia
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CCP Hammerhead
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Posted - 2004.07.07 05:02:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Shevar
Originally by: BH Hammerhead
Switching ammo would have increased you chance to hit drastically.
You surely mean switching ammo and actually move to the reaches of that ammo's optimal range? Or does ammo actually change the to hit formula? AFAIK the reason why he cant hit anything is because of tracking issues, futher away there are less tracking issues but I fail to see what ammo has got to do with it.
Her choice of antimatter cut her optimal range in half. This placed her target well outside of optimal deep into falloff. Falloff describes a curve past optimal that starts at no modification to hit and slides to 50% chance to hit at optimal + falloff then continues to a point at which you have no chance of hitting. This curve has been posted in the various turret balance threads and was first shown in this dev blog. Switching to Lead Charge L would have put that frigate in optimal range for the situation that was described in the example given.
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CCP Hammerhead
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Posted - 2004.07.07 05:02:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Shevar
Originally by: BH Hammerhead
Switching ammo would have increased you chance to hit drastically.
You surely mean switching ammo and actually move to the reaches of that ammo's optimal range? Or does ammo actually change the to hit formula? AFAIK the reason why he cant hit anything is because of tracking issues, futher away there are less tracking issues but I fail to see what ammo has got to do with it.
Her choice of antimatter cut her optimal range in half. This placed her target well outside of optimal deep into falloff. Falloff describes a curve past optimal that starts at no modification to hit and slides to 50% chance to hit at optimal + falloff then continues to a point at which you have no chance of hitting. This curve has been posted in the various turret balance threads and was first shown in this dev blog. Switching to Lead Charge L would have put that frigate in optimal range for the situation that was described in the example given.
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Bigby
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Posted - 2004.07.07 06:29:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Iece Quaan
If I am out protecting a mining op in .2, I need a battleship to handle multiple cruiser spawns. But then, I can't hit the frigs, cause the gods have decided that my guns just shouldnt work against frigs.
Nah, just get yourself a Taranis. Works far better and can take out an NPC BS with a bit of patience
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Bigby
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Posted - 2004.07.07 06:29:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Iece Quaan
If I am out protecting a mining op in .2, I need a battleship to handle multiple cruiser spawns. But then, I can't hit the frigs, cause the gods have decided that my guns just shouldnt work against frigs.
Nah, just get yourself a Taranis. Works far better and can take out an NPC BS with a bit of patience
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Selim
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Posted - 2004.07.07 08:53:00 -
[45]
Wait, falloff also determines accuracy? I thought it only determined how hard the gun hits.
Anyway, I've had so much trouble with my Tempest even against cruisers or battleships that I'm probably not going to fly it anymore. I suppose its better this way, now we'll see very diverse fleets with only a couple battleships. Or maybe not.
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Selim
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Posted - 2004.07.07 08:53:00 -
[46]
Wait, falloff also determines accuracy? I thought it only determined how hard the gun hits.
Anyway, I've had so much trouble with my Tempest even against cruisers or battleships that I'm probably not going to fly it anymore. I suppose its better this way, now we'll see very diverse fleets with only a couple battleships. Or maybe not.
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Nicholas Marshal
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Posted - 2004.07.07 09:12:00 -
[47]
If you want to kill frigs, just fit medium or small turrets.
For the last time - a BS is not meant to be some kind of Ultra godly ship that can destroy everything that moves in 1 hit lol.
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Nicholas Marshal
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Posted - 2004.07.07 09:12:00 -
[48]
If you want to kill frigs, just fit medium or small turrets.
For the last time - a BS is not meant to be some kind of Ultra godly ship that can destroy everything that moves in 1 hit lol.
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DeFood
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Posted - 2004.07.07 09:21:00 -
[49]
The problem with hybrid weapons at the moment, well, now ive switched to lasers perhaps the patch has fixed this, but even flying a cruiser using medium blasters and rails and trying to "get" a working gun/ammo/range combo, unless you are using Iron ammo the optimal range of the gun/ammo combo and the optimal range of the tracking/radialvelocity/signature radius combo do not overlap.
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DeFood
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Posted - 2004.07.07 09:21:00 -
[50]
The problem with hybrid weapons at the moment, well, now ive switched to lasers perhaps the patch has fixed this, but even flying a cruiser using medium blasters and rails and trying to "get" a working gun/ammo/range combo, unless you are using Iron ammo the optimal range of the gun/ammo combo and the optimal range of the tracking/radialvelocity/signature radius combo do not overlap.
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Roselyn Downs
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Posted - 2004.07.07 10:02:00 -
[51]
Tbh since this last patch, changes made seems to have the exact effect the patch notes stated they would. My medium guns once again rip cruisers apart, frig guns REALLY hit frigs. With just 1 tracking cpu, you can hit cruisers with the smaller bs guns too, and frigs with the smaller cruiser guns. Admittedly, this gives lower hits than if you used them on their right size targets.
This is exactly what CCP were aiming for. Making teamwork in a MMO important (gasp!). For PvP, this means mixed fleets. For PvE, this means bring a friend and balance your setups accordingly.
Imo things were a bit off after the first tracking change patch, but they seem to be working (for the most part) logically now, and more importantly, they seem to work in a way that furthers gameplay, tactics (not only on the battlefield, but also in the fitting screen). It seems to work.. As intended.
Also this patch brought many other good things, ships and cans going off scanner as soon as you pop them, ship stats only showing the targeting strenght that the ship actually uses etc.
Imo, well done CCP (for once hehe).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
The only legitimate use of the BLINK tag:
Schr÷dinger's cat is [BLINK] not [/BLINK] dead.
2004.07.07 17:01:19combatYour Heavy Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I perfectly strikes Rogue Pirate Escort, wrecking for 380.2 damage. |
Roselyn Downs
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Posted - 2004.07.07 10:02:00 -
[52]
Tbh since this last patch, changes made seems to have the exact effect the patch notes stated they would. My medium guns once again rip cruisers apart, frig guns REALLY hit frigs. With just 1 tracking cpu, you can hit cruisers with the smaller bs guns too, and frigs with the smaller cruiser guns. Admittedly, this gives lower hits than if you used them on their right size targets.
This is exactly what CCP were aiming for. Making teamwork in a MMO important (gasp!). For PvP, this means mixed fleets. For PvE, this means bring a friend and balance your setups accordingly.
Imo things were a bit off after the first tracking change patch, but they seem to be working (for the most part) logically now, and more importantly, they seem to work in a way that furthers gameplay, tactics (not only on the battlefield, but also in the fitting screen). It seems to work.. As intended.
Also this patch brought many other good things, ships and cans going off scanner as soon as you pop them, ship stats only showing the targeting strenght that the ship actually uses etc.
Imo, well done CCP (for once hehe).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
The only legitimate use of the BLINK tag:
Schr÷dinger's cat is [BLINK] not [/BLINK] dead.
2004.07.07 17:01:19combatYour Heavy Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I perfectly strikes Rogue Pirate Escort, wrecking for 380.2 damage. |
Drone1
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Posted - 2004.07.07 10:07:00 -
[53]
Originally by: BH Hammerhead
Originally by: Shevar
Originally by: BH Hammerhead
Switching ammo would have increased you chance to hit drastically.
You surely mean switching ammo and actually move to the reaches of that ammo's optimal range? Or does ammo actually change the to hit formula? AFAIK the reason why he cant hit anything is because of tracking issues, futher away there are less tracking issues but I fail to see what ammo has got to do with it.
Her choice of antimatter cut her optimal range in half. This placed her target well outside of optimal deep into falloff. Falloff describes a curve past optimal that starts at no modification to hit and slides to 50% chance to hit at optimal + falloff then continues to a point at which you have no chance of hitting. This curve has been posted in the various turret balance threads and was first shown in this dev blog. Switching to Lead Charge L would have put that frigate in optimal range for the situation that was described in the example given.
But that's not the case now, by all accounts since the patch the other week best damage is being done at optimal plus fall off. Tried it out myself after the reports first started to appear in the forums and was getting the same findings - i believe it equated to best damage for me with anti matter was at 70km and with irridium 100km. This was with danage and tracking mods but nevertheless was still in accordance with my gunns' stats as opimal figure plus falloff figue.
Or have they fixed it now, back it the way it was previously?
I'm confused.........
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Drone1
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Posted - 2004.07.07 10:07:00 -
[54]
Originally by: BH Hammerhead
Originally by: Shevar
Originally by: BH Hammerhead
Switching ammo would have increased you chance to hit drastically.
You surely mean switching ammo and actually move to the reaches of that ammo's optimal range? Or does ammo actually change the to hit formula? AFAIK the reason why he cant hit anything is because of tracking issues, futher away there are less tracking issues but I fail to see what ammo has got to do with it.
Her choice of antimatter cut her optimal range in half. This placed her target well outside of optimal deep into falloff. Falloff describes a curve past optimal that starts at no modification to hit and slides to 50% chance to hit at optimal + falloff then continues to a point at which you have no chance of hitting. This curve has been posted in the various turret balance threads and was first shown in this dev blog. Switching to Lead Charge L would have put that frigate in optimal range for the situation that was described in the example given.
But that's not the case now, by all accounts since the patch the other week best damage is being done at optimal plus fall off. Tried it out myself after the reports first started to appear in the forums and was getting the same findings - i believe it equated to best damage for me with anti matter was at 70km and with irridium 100km. This was with danage and tracking mods but nevertheless was still in accordance with my gunns' stats as opimal figure plus falloff figue.
Or have they fixed it now, back it the way it was previously?
I'm confused.........
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Gariuys
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Posted - 2004.07.07 11:18:00 -
[55]
Hammerhead knows what hes talking about. ;)
And yes anything that was fubared with turrets is now fixed.
~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~
A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX
The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
Gariuys
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Posted - 2004.07.07 11:18:00 -
[56]
Hammerhead knows what hes talking about. ;)
And yes anything that was fubared with turrets is now fixed.
~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~
A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX
The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
Akelig
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Posted - 2004.07.07 11:45:00 -
[57]
they really need to nerf the Raven, it's totally out of balance compared to any other bs (DPS)
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Akelig
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Posted - 2004.07.07 11:45:00 -
[58]
they really need to nerf the Raven, it's totally out of balance compared to any other bs (DPS)
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Estios
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Posted - 2004.07.07 12:54:00 -
[59]
Hammerhead you clearly know your stuff but Im still remembering a few weeks back on IRC when you told me guns were fine after last patch and nothing was broken 
For whats its worth I forgive you , and can safely say yesterdays patch was a breath of fresh air. My 1400's dont hit frigs at all and struggle with Cruisers and Im totally fine with that. It seems BS to BS combat is way better now though.
Still think the close range BS guns are missing a little something as they seem totally unable to hit others BS's when under 2km even when opt is 3.5km yet a 1400 can hit at 10km. I would expect at 15km and below that an 800mm would outperform a 1400, although I need to do more tests.
I think close range BS turrets (I only have experience of projectile weapons) maybe need a little sanity check but its a shame a lot of valid points can often get missed due to folks being determined their Battleship turrets should mash frigates in single volleys.
I like the whole theory CCP are trying to implement, they just need a little gentle feedback when they get it wrong 
So HMV consider Andy Williams and Dean Martin to be "easy listening" do they? Tell that to my mate Dave, he's been deaf for 20 years.
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Estios
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Posted - 2004.07.07 12:54:00 -
[60]
Hammerhead you clearly know your stuff but Im still remembering a few weeks back on IRC when you told me guns were fine after last patch and nothing was broken
For whats its worth I forgive you , and can safely say yesterdays patch was a breath of fresh air. My 1400's dont hit frigs at all and struggle with Cruisers and Im totally fine with that. It seems BS to BS combat is way better now though.
Still think the close range BS guns are missing a little something as they seem totally unable to hit others BS's when under 2km even when opt is 3.5km yet a 1400 can hit at 10km. I would expect at 15km and below that an 800mm would outperform a 1400, although I need to do more tests.
I think close range BS turrets (I only have experience of projectile weapons) maybe need a little sanity check but its a shame a lot of valid points can often get missed due to folks being determined their Battleship turrets should mash frigates in single volleys.
I like the whole theory CCP are trying to implement, they just need a little gentle feedback when they get it wrong
So HMV consider Andy Williams and Dean Martin to be "easy listening" do they? Tell that to my mate Dave, he's been deaf for 20 years.
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