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Captain Falcord
Gallente Ghost Festival
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Posted - 2008.11.13 21:12:00 -
[1]
It seems there is a new bug that renders certain ships (I think those with stacked guns) punctually unable to dock by using the "dock" command from a long distance like, for example, another planet.
When I want to stop playing I usually click "dock" on my station and just relax, minimize and stop paying attention, because theoretically, once you initiate that warp there's no human (or jovian) way to stop you being safely docked at the end of it (apart from obvious station standing reasons, but that was not the case) and this is basic game mechanics.
Soo I was just zipping around Amamake and when I felt like leaving, I did the usual "dock", watched warp initiation and minimized.
Imagine my face when I maximized five minutes later to find myself podded, and my recent +4 implants (probably 20% of my money spent in that) gone.
What's my chance of getting a reimbursement? I've already petitioned, altough I'm not sure if the log will be able to help me. ---<---@ JackFalcord |
Rhys Onasi
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Posted - 2008.11.13 21:13:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Rhys Onasi on 13/11/2008 21:14:56 It's not a QR bug.
I've had that issue for months.
Never assume you are going to dock at the end of a warp...
EDIT: Not that I am saying this isn't a bug, it's just not from QR. And lowsec... AFK... They are not a good couple.
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Dark 'Shadow
Talocan Technologies
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Posted - 2008.11.13 21:14:00 -
[3]
Just fyi sometimes the docking thing gets ****ed up even when you don't have grouped weapons. In my hulk when I hit dock maybe once out of 10 times it will just sit there at 0m from the station.
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Gonada
Priory Of The Lemon
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Posted - 2008.11.13 21:15:00 -
[4]
highly unlikely
why? cause its COMMON KNOWLEDGE that not all stations you " dock" to warp you right into docking initiation.
Therefore, you hit " dock", minimized the game, and missed the fact that enemys webbed/ scrammed killed you before you could dock, or probobly, once they noticed you were afk, the bumped you a bit as well
Please, jump into traffic
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Captain Falcord
Gallente Ghost Festival
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Posted - 2008.11.13 21:17:00 -
[5]
I see, so it's not new.
Anyway, old or new, it's still a bug. Any chance I can get this reimbursed?
I bought these implants because I know I never lose my pod in PVP. And then I lose it to a bug. Heh. ---<---@ JackFalcord |
Dark 'Shadow
Talocan Technologies
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Posted - 2008.11.13 21:18:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Captain Falcord I see, so it's not new.
Anyway, old or new, it's still a bug. Any chance I can get this reimbursed?
I bought these implants because I know I never lose my pod in PVP. And then I lose it to a bug. Heh.
I highly doubt it, no hurt in trying a petition though.
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NightF0x
Gallente Chicken Coup Raiders
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Posted - 2008.11.13 21:19:00 -
[7]
No chance in getting reimbursement. Reason: You went afk without ensuring that you were in a safe location. Now if you were docked and sitting in your hangar and walked away then maybe there would be a chance but it was your fault that you were killed and podded. Chaulk it up as experience that not everything goes as planned.
BTW, you can stop the docking sequence if you use CTRL+Spacebar during warp and you won't dock when you arrive. ------------------------------------
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Captain Falcord
Gallente Ghost Festival
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Posted - 2008.11.13 21:19:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Captain Falcord on 13/11/2008 21:20:38
Originally by: Gonada
why? cause its COMMON KNOWLEDGE that not all stations you " dock" to warp you right into docking initiation.
Originally by: NightF0x Reason: You went afk without ensuring that you were in a safe location.
Common knowledge does not equal intended game mechanics.
First, I had no access to that "common knowledge" so far. Second, the "dock" function, as described by the manuals and the game itself, it's supposed to dock you, as long as it's possible. A game function failing to do it's job is a bug and not my fault. Therefore I feel in my right to ask for reimbursement (and to pray for it ^^) ---<---@ JackFalcord |
Andrue
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.11.13 21:23:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Andrue on 13/11/2008 21:24:36
Originally by: Captain Falcord When I want to stop playing I usually click "dock" on my station and just relax, minimize and stop paying attention, because theoretically, once you initiate that warp there's no human (or jovian) way to stop you being safely docked at the end of it (apart from obvious station standing reasons, but that was not the case) and this is basic game mechanics.
Been that way since WTZ was introduced over a year ago. Some stations from some directions just don't insta dock and sometimes they don't ever dock unless you re-issue the command.
Might be petitionable but I don't know. Personally I'd be inclined to blame the pilot for being careless and making unwarranted assumptions..but then I'm a git -- (Sarcastic mission running veteran, 4+ years)
[Brackley, UK]
My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned. |
NightF0x
Gallente Chicken Coup Raiders
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Posted - 2008.11.13 21:26:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Captain Falcord Edited by: Captain Falcord on 13/11/2008 21:20:38
Originally by: Gonada
why? cause its COMMON KNOWLEDGE that not all stations you " dock" to warp you right into docking initiation.
Originally by: NightF0x Reason: You went afk without ensuring that you were in a safe location.
Common knowledge does not equal intended game mechanics.
First, I had no access to that "common knowledge" so far. Second, the "dock" function, as described by the manuals and the game itself, it's supposed to dock you, as long as it's possible. A game function failing to do it's job is a bug and not my fault. Therefore I feel in my right to ask for reimbursement (and to pray for it ^^)
You know what happens with you assume? You make an arse out of you and me. I know cheesey but I pray that you don't get reimbursed because of your carelessness and inability to take responsibility for your own actions. ------------------------------------
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Captain Falcord
Gallente Ghost Festival
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Posted - 2008.11.13 21:26:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Andrue Edited by: Andrue on 13/11/2008 21:24:36
Originally by: Captain Falcord When I want to stop playing I usually click "dock" on my station and just relax, minimize and stop paying attention, because theoretically, once you initiate that warp there's no human (or jovian) way to stop you being safely docked at the end of it (apart from obvious station standing reasons, but that was not the case) and this is basic game mechanics.
Been that way since WTZ was introduced over a year ago. Some stations from some directions just don't insta dock and sometimes they don't ever dock unless you re-issue the command.
Might be petitionable but I don't know. Personally I'd be inclined to blame the pilot for being careless and making unwarranted assumptions..but then I'm a git
Okay, I made an assumption, and I made it based on two factors.
1- I assumed a game function works as it is SUPPOSED to. 2- I never had that problem before. Reallly.
Now just look at it this way: Imagine there was a bug you never heard about that makes your ship explode when looking at the sun. You randomly look at the sun and explode. Then everybody tells you it's your fault, because it's COMMON KNOWLEDGE. So what? It's unintended, you didn't know it, its NOT your fault. ---<---@ JackFalcord |
Yoinx
Caldari Gemini Sun
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Posted - 2008.11.13 21:28:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Yoinx on 13/11/2008 21:28:05 * - I wish I had something witty to put in a signature. - |
Aloriana Jacques
Amarr Royal Amarr Institute
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Posted - 2008.11.13 21:30:00 -
[13]
No excuses. Your actions were the equvalent of "I went AFK and came back dead." It's YOUR responsibility to make sure you are SAFE before walking away. - - - Aloriana Jacques - Skill Sheet
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Kiviar
Caldari Bloodmoney Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.11.13 21:31:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Captain Falcord
1- I assumed a game function works as it is SUPPOSED to.
You will be hard pressed to find somewhere where it states that the dock command is supposed to grant you a 100% safe space to station transition. ---
Certified elite hull tanker. |
Captain Falcord
Gallente Ghost Festival
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Posted - 2008.11.13 21:32:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Aloriana Jacques No excuses. Your actions were the equvalent of "I went AFK and came back dead." It's YOUR responsibility to make sure you are SAFE before walking away.
Okay. Now explain to me. Is there any difference between my problem and "I was docked and the character undocked itself and self-destructed"?.
No, there isn't. In both cases, the character was in a situation described as SAFE. And don't be so childish to tell me I was not safe due to game mechanics. I was unsafe due to a BUG in game mechanics, because my situation was theoretically safe (when the dock functions works as intended, you can't be stopped).
My situation was safe and I spent enough time checking it: Just enough time to see myself catch that warp. Any more time spent is a waste of time, except, obviously, the cases in which a BUG makes unsafe a situation that should be safe. ---<---@ JackFalcord |
Captain Falcord
Gallente Ghost Festival
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Posted - 2008.11.13 21:33:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Captain Falcord on 13/11/2008 21:33:33
Originally by: Kiviar
Originally by: Captain Falcord
1- I assumed a game function works as it is SUPPOSED to.
You will be hard pressed to find somewhere where it states that the dock command is supposed to grant you a 100% safe space to station transition.
You will be more hard pressed to find somewhere where it states it DOESN'T grant me that 100% safety, apart from reverting to the "common knowledge", which is not that common (Otherwise I would have heard it). ---<---@ JackFalcord |
NightF0x
Gallente Chicken Coup Raiders
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Posted - 2008.11.13 21:33:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Captain Falcord Now just look at it this way: Imagine there was a bug you never heard about that makes your ship explode when looking at the sun. You randomly look at the sun and explode. Then everybody tells you it's your fault, because it's COMMON KNOWLEDGE. So what? It's unintended, you didn't know it, its NOT your fault.
I never said that it was common knowledge. I said that you were careless in not ensuring that you were docked before you walked away from your computer. The whole sun scenario is clearly a bug in the game. You not ensuring that you were docked is not a bug. ------------------------------------
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KarGard
Agent-Orange
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Posted - 2008.11.13 21:34:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Captain Falcord
No, there isn't. In both cases, the character was in a situation described as SAFE.
You see, there is your problem. You assumed you were safe at any point while playing eve. This assumption is incorrect.
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Captain Falcord
Gallente Ghost Festival
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Posted - 2008.11.13 21:34:00 -
[19]
Originally by: NightF0x
You not ensuring that you were docked is not a bug.
I clicked the order "dock" and my ship didn't dock.
It is. Period.
---<---@ JackFalcord |
Captain Falcord
Gallente Ghost Festival
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Posted - 2008.11.13 21:35:00 -
[20]
Originally by: KarGard
Originally by: Captain Falcord
No, there isn't. In both cases, the character was in a situation described as SAFE.
You see, there is your problem. You assumed you were safe at any point while playing eve. This assumption is incorrect.
It's correct as long as bugs are not involved. Bugs were involved, therefore I can complain. ---<---@ JackFalcord |
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Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2008.11.13 21:36:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Captain Falcord When I want to stop playing I usually click "dock" on my station and just relax, minimize and stop paying attention
If only you had mentioned this before this happened, the raucous laughter would have served as a warning.
Originally by: Captain Falcord Imagine my face when I maximized five minutes later to find myself podded, and my recent +4 implants (probably 20% of my money spent in that) gone.
I have a poor imagination, can we get an artist's impression or something?
This is the funniest thing I've read in a while. Still, I wish you a quick recovery from this painful lesson. No chance of reimbursement BTW, parking outside a station and going AFK is not petitionable, even if it was accidental. -
DesuSigs |
NightF0x
Gallente Chicken Coup Raiders
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Posted - 2008.11.13 21:36:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Captain Falcord Edited by: Captain Falcord on 13/11/2008 21:33:33
Originally by: Kiviar
Originally by: Captain Falcord
1- I assumed a game function works as it is SUPPOSED to.
You will be hard pressed to find somewhere where it states that the dock command is supposed to grant you a 100% safe space to station transition.
You will be more hard pressed to find somewhere where it states it DOESN'T grant me that 100% safety, apart from reverting to the "common knowledge", which is not that common (Otherwise I would have heard it).
Quit grasping at straws here. You clearly didn't ensure that you were safely docked. It's your fault that you died...especially when you were in low-sec ------------------------------------
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Jhango Fett
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2008.11.13 21:38:00 -
[23]
You went AFk in lowsec and you want reimbursement ... ?
See where your logic is flawed?
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Captain Falcord
Gallente Ghost Festival
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Posted - 2008.11.13 21:43:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Captain Falcord on 13/11/2008 21:43:45
Originally by: Jhango Fett You went AFk in lowsec and you want reimbursement ... ?
See where your logic is flawed?
I didn't go afk in lowsec.
I went afk under an specific game situation that is supposed to guarantee safety, as much as being docked itself is. However, that game situation didn't work.
If you got shot MID-WARP, or even worse, inside a station, and came here to complain, would it be logical for me to say "you can't complain, you were in low sec"? No. Leaving security apart, you were in a safe situation.
See where your logic is flawed? ---<---@ JackFalcord |
Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2008.11.13 21:47:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Crumplecorn on 13/11/2008 21:46:51
Originally by: Captain Falcord I didn't go afk in lowsec.
Yes, yes you did.
Originally by: Captain Falcord I went afk under an specific game situation that is supposed to guarantee safety, as much as being docked itself is. However, that game situation didn't work.
Oh STFU. You're actually managing to be annoying rather than amusing now. Nobody told you that trying to dock guarantees anything. Point out where it is written. -
DesuSigs |
Jason Edwards
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Posted - 2008.11.13 21:48:00 -
[26]
QR???
You mean like Revelations or even further. ------------------------ Have you fed your slaves recently? -BRB Rens |
Tombozo
Caldari Bagman's Bookkeeping Services LLC
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Posted - 2008.11.13 21:50:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Captain Falcord
Originally by: NightF0x
You not ensuring that you were docked is not a bug.
I clicked the order "dock" and my ship didn't dock.
It is. Period.
A lesson in EVE game mechanics, which I am sure you have experience with:
You know how when you warp to something, you don't always land in exactly the same spot? You know how when you gang warp someone with a friend, you don't land in exactly the same spot?
There is a 2.5km sphere centered on the 'actual' warp destination. When you warp, you can land anywhere in this sphere. This is an intended game mechanic.
Sometimes, when you warp to a station, even though you warp to 'zero', you will land farther away from the docking radius because of this randomized warping system, and you will have to approach your target in order to dock. This is an intended game mechanic.
It is entirely possible to kill someone after they come out of warp, but before they close the distance required to dock. This is an intended game mechanic.
You cannot assume that you are safe, if you are anywhere in space. You cannot conclusively prove that there is a bug at work here, and you went AFK when you were not in a safe situation. Would you like some cheese with that whine? |
EnslaverOfMinmatar
Yarsk Hunters DeaDSpace Coalition
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Posted - 2008.11.13 21:51:00 -
[28]
been like that forever, 50% of the time I have to click dock 2 times to get the "docking request accepted" uʍop ǝpısdn ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ ƃuıpɐǝɹ ǝɹɐ noʎ
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Captain Falcord
Gallente Ghost Festival
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Posted - 2008.11.13 21:51:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Captain Falcord on 13/11/2008 21:53:25
Quote:
Originally by: Captain Falcord I didn't go afk in lowsec.
Yes, yes you did.
Originally by: Captain Falcord I went afk under an specific game situation that is supposed to guarantee safety, as much as being docked itself is. However, that game situation didn't work.
Oh STFU. You're actually managing to be annoying rather than amusing now. Nobody told you that trying to dock guarantees anything. Point out where it is written.
Point out where it is written that being mid-warp with a dock command is NOT safe.
That's basic algebra. You can't prove me wrong. I, however, can prove that a game mechanic has failed, and, because of that, I got killed. ---<---@ JackFalcord |
Captain Falcord
Gallente Ghost Festival
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Posted - 2008.11.13 21:53:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Tombozo
A lesson in EVE game mechanics, which I am sure you have experience with:
You know how when you warp to something, you don't always land in exactly the same spot? You know how when you gang warp someone with a friend, you don't land in exactly the same spot?
There is a 2.5km sphere centered on the 'actual' warp destination. When you warp, you can land anywhere in this sphere. This is an intended game mechanic.
Sometimes, when you warp to a station, even though you warp to 'zero', you will land farther away from the docking radius because of this randomized warping system, and you will have to approach your target in order to dock. This is an intended game mechanic.
It is entirely possible to kill someone after they come out of warp, but before they close the distance required to dock. This is an intended game mechanic.
You cannot assume that you are safe, if you are anywhere in space. You cannot conclusively prove that there is a bug at work here, and you went AFK when you were not in a safe situation. Would you like some cheese with that whine?
Good. The first intelligent response in the whole post.
As I've repeatedly said before, I'll STFU and leave if you manage to prove me wrong. Give me a link to an official source of that info, and I have no arguments remaining.
Just yelling at me "It's your fault lol in eve you're never safe" is not going anywhere, so please everyone else stop it. ---<---@ JackFalcord |
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Tippia
Caldari Raddick Explorations BlackWater.
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Posted - 2008.11.13 21:56:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Captain Falcord I, however, can prove that a game mechanic has failed, and, because of that, I got killed.
No. You can only prove that it didn't work as you expected.
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NightF0x
Gallente Chicken Coup Raiders
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Posted - 2008.11.13 21:57:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Captain Falcord If you got shot MID-WARP...
That has happened and was non-petitionable. It was due to lag and the damage catching up to people while they were in mid-warp. Basically they should have warped out sooner
Quote: inside a station
Now that would be petitionable, unless it was due to aggression or de-sync.
Quote: See where your logic is flawed?
actually, no. You see, it was user error that caused the problem. You failed to ensure your safety and therefore should not be granted a reimbursement.
------------------------------------
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SomeHardLovin
Rain of Fire
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Posted - 2008.11.13 21:57:00 -
[33]
Although the above poster is correct in saying you do not always come out of warp exactly where you expected to be and that SOME approach time is necessary, it is my experience that what often happens is the game sets you on 'approach' and forgets to dock.. so you end up hugging the station bumping off of its hull.
That is a bug :) ---
"Some say the best weapon is the weapon you never have to fire. I say.. the best weapon is the weapon you only have to fire once!" |
Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2008.11.13 21:58:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Captain Falcord Point out where it is written that being mid-warp with a dock command is NOT safe.
That's basic algebra. You can't prove me wrong. I, however, can prove that a game mechanic has failed, and, because of that, I got killed.
Point out where it says that sitting at a 0.0 gate with a target painted on your ass isn't safe.
Now tell me that that is safe.
I'm starting to see how you lost your ship to a comedy routine. -
DesuSigs |
Tombozo
Caldari Bagman's Bookkeeping Services LLC
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Posted - 2008.11.13 21:59:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Captain Falcord Point out where it is written that being mid-warp with a dock command is NOT safe.
That's basic algebra. You can't prove me wrong. I, however, can prove that a game mechanic has failed, and, because of that, I got killed.
Just so you know, the burden of proof isn't on us to prove you wrong. It's on you, to prove yourself right. So far, you haven't. There are myriad situations that could result in you dying. In addition to the way I mentioned in my post above - did you know that commands in EVE, including dock commands, will time out if not carried out within a certain time? This is another intended game mechanic bearing an end result of possible danger when in-warp with a dock command.
You are responsible for your own safety, and if you go AFK in space you are shirking that responsibility. It doesn't get shifted to CCP. Perhaps if you'd like to conclusively prove that a bug was the occurance, you could provide more details. Did your ship even request docking permission at station? How long of a time interval was it between when you initiated the dock command and when your ship was destroyed? How many ships of what type killed you, and with what weapons? For all we know, someone may have one-volleyed you when you came out of warp. |
Ki Anna
Ki Tech Industries
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Posted - 2008.11.13 21:59:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Captain Falcord because theoretically, once you initiate that warp there's no human (or jovian) way to stop you being safely docked at the end of it (apart from obvious station standing reasons, but that was not the case) and this is basic game mechanics.
Here is where you went wrong.
Those overview buttons allow you to attempt to do the specified action. They do not ensure that the action will be completed.
The Dock will attempt to warp you to the station, then attempt to dock. If it fails to warp (ie because you are tackled) or fails to dock (ie because you have an agression or session change timer pending) then you will not dock and must re-attempt to do so manually.
That mechanic is "working as intended".
Good luck with your petition, but I won't expect much.
In the future, you will better understand how the game works and can adapt accordingly: now you know not to assume that you are docked until you see the inside of the station.
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Captain Falcord
Gallente Ghost Festival
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Posted - 2008.11.13 22:02:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Ki Anna
Originally by: Captain Falcord because theoretically, once you initiate that warp there's no human (or jovian) way to stop you being safely docked at the end of it (apart from obvious station standing reasons, but that was not the case) and this is basic game mechanics.
Here is where you went wrong.
Those overview buttons allow you to attempt to do the specified action. They do not ensure that the action will be completed.
The Dock will attempt to warp you to the station, then attempt to dock. If it fails to warp (ie because you are tackled) or fails to dock (ie because you have an agression or session change timer pending) then you will not dock and must re-attempt to do so manually.
That mechanic is "working as intended".
Good luck with your petition, but I won't expect much.
In the future, you will better understand how the game works and can adapt accordingly: now you know not to assume that you are docked until you see the inside of the station.
Thanks.
Again, these are the answers I do like, and what I came from.
I don't want you guys to laugh at me and tell me it's my fault. I came here to know WHY it's my fault or, otherwise, why it is CCP's fault.
CCP will decide to either reimburse me or not, not the forums. ---<---@ JackFalcord |
NightF0x
Gallente Chicken Coup Raiders
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Posted - 2008.11.13 22:15:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Captain Falcord
Originally by: Ki Anna
Originally by: Captain Falcord because theoretically, once you initiate that warp there's no human (or jovian) way to stop you being safely docked at the end of it (apart from obvious station standing reasons, but that was not the case) and this is basic game mechanics.
Here is where you went wrong.
Those overview buttons allow you to attempt to do the specified action. They do not ensure that the action will be completed.
The Dock will attempt to warp you to the station, then attempt to dock. If it fails to warp (ie because you are tackled) or fails to dock (ie because you have an agression or session change timer pending) then you will not dock and must re-attempt to do so manually.
That mechanic is "working as intended".
Good luck with your petition, but I won't expect much.
In the future, you will better understand how the game works and can adapt accordingly: now you know not to assume that you are docked until you see the inside of the station.
Thanks.
Again, these are the answers I do like, and what I came from.
I don't want you guys to laugh at me and tell me it's my fault. I came here to know WHY it's my fault or, otherwise, why it is CCP's fault.
CCP will decide to either reimburse me or not, not the forums.
Some of us are pointing at you and putting partial blame for the incredibly long petition queues that we with legitimate issues have to wait for CCP to wade through. Cancel your petition because it was your fault and save the rest of us some waiting time. ------------------------------------
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Captain Falcord
Gallente Ghost Festival
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Posted - 2008.11.13 22:16:00 -
[39]
Originally by: NightF0x
Originally by: Captain Falcord
Originally by: Ki Anna
Originally by: Captain Falcord because theoretically, once you initiate that warp there's no human (or jovian) way to stop you being safely docked at the end of it (apart from obvious station standing reasons, but that was not the case) and this is basic game mechanics.
Here is where you went wrong.
Those overview buttons allow you to attempt to do the specified action. They do not ensure that the action will be completed.
The Dock will attempt to warp you to the station, then attempt to dock. If it fails to warp (ie because you are tackled) or fails to dock (ie because you have an agression or session change timer pending) then you will not dock and must re-attempt to do so manually.
That mechanic is "working as intended".
Good luck with your petition, but I won't expect much.
In the future, you will better understand how the game works and can adapt accordingly: now you know not to assume that you are docked until you see the inside of the station.
Thanks.
Again, these are the answers I do like, and what I came from.
I don't want you guys to laugh at me and tell me it's my fault. I came here to know WHY it's my fault or, otherwise, why it is CCP's fault.
CCP will decide to either reimburse me or not, not the forums.
Some of us are pointing at you and putting partial blame for the incredibly long petition queues that we with legitimate issues have to wait for CCP to wade through. Cancel your petition because it was your fault and save the rest of us some waiting time.
I said I appreciate those kind of answers. However, as they don't come from a DEV or a GM, I won't remove my petition, because they might be wrong.
If you post an official link to information that proves me wrong, I will. Otherwise, sorry. ---<---@ JackFalcord |
Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2008.11.13 22:18:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Captain Falcord I said I appreciate those kind of answers. However, as they don't come from a DEV or a GM, I won't remove my petition, because they might be wrong.
If you post an official link to information that proves me wrong, I will. Otherwise, sorry.
/facepalm
Stupidity isn't so funny when it results in spurious petitions. -
DesuSigs |
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Captain Falcord
Gallente Ghost Festival
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Posted - 2008.11.13 22:24:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Crumplecorn
Originally by: Captain Falcord I said I appreciate those kind of answers. However, as they don't come from a DEV or a GM, I won't remove my petition, because they might be wrong.
If you post an official link to information that proves me wrong, I will. Otherwise, sorry.
/facepalm
Stupidity isn't so funny when it results in spurious petitions.
So everyone here knows I'm stupid. Fine. Then why there's nobody who can link me the information to prove me wrong?
My petition is as necessary as yours as long as I'm not proven wrong. Once I am, I'll remove it. I hope even the simplest mind will understand my reasoning here. ---<---@ JackFalcord |
Tombozo
Caldari Bagman's Bookkeeping Services LLC
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Posted - 2008.11.13 22:29:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Captain Falcord I said I appreciate those kind of answers. However, as they don't come from a DEV or a GM, I won't remove my petition, because they might be wrong.
If you post an official link to information that proves me wrong, I will. Otherwise, sorry.
I was wondering if you would respond to my second post. Looks like, no.
Thank you for helping to squander all of our collective subscription fees on paying GMs to deal with frivolous petitions. You're right that the forums can't decide whether you will be reimbursed, but you're wrong in thinking that our input doesn't matter. I would love to link you to information from a GM regarding issues like this, but I can't because I would be breaking the EULA. Suffice it to say, if you do not prove without a doubt that the loss was caused by an error on CCP's part, you will not receive reimbursement. The GMs are not allowed to reimburse you for something like this, where you do not provide evidence negating all the other scenarios that could possibly have gotten you killed under the same circumstances, that are not bugs.
I'm surprised you even posted this on the forums at all. You act like you're seeking advice from people with experience dealing with GMs, but when the response is a virtually unanimous 'this is not a reimburseable' you just play the what-you-say-doesn't-matter-anyways card. Why bother posting here anyways? You know you won't even be able to post the GM's response when (s)he denies your petition, right?
This is juvenile. I'm trying to help you, and I can assure you that no GM will approve reimbursement with the information you've given us. You either need to update your petition with irrefutable evidence, or give up on getting your ship back. And please, stop posting about it. |
Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 22:31:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Crumplecorn on 13/11/2008 22:31:24
Originally by: Captain Falcord So everyone here knows I'm stupid. Fine. Then why there's nobody who can link me the information to prove me wrong?
My petition is as necessary as yours as long as I'm not proven wrong. Once I am, I'll remove it. I hope even the simplest mind will understand my reasoning here.
Because there is no need for such proof, because in petitions the burden of proof is on you. Unless you have this proof, your petition is a waste of time. -
DesuSigs |
ekalami
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 22:33:00 -
[44]
I have a feeling this 'bug' is actually intentional, and a weapon against macro use. For the past couple of years on a very good quality connection, i find that, regular as clockwork, about 1 in 10 of my attempts to dock or warp will simply be ignored. Its just an extra click if you are at the controls, but might confuse a macro. If so, i agree with this feature
|
Captain Falcord
Gallente Ghost Festival
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 22:33:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Tombozo
This is juvenile. I'm trying to help you, and I can assure you that no GM will approve reimbursement with the information you've given us. You either need to update your petition with irrefutable evidence, or give up on getting your ship back. And please, stop posting about it.
The whole reason I made this post is to give the community the chance to stop me beforehand so I could remove the petition before it makes the GMs waste their precious time, that would be better spent helping YOU.
Probably, 90% of the people who post "stupid" petitions don't care to discuss them at the forums, therefore consider my thread an act of respect towards the community, not the opposite.
The only thing I need to ultimately cancel my petition is EVIDENCE of my mistake, and evidence only comes from official information. Your reasonings might sound logic, but you don't work for CCP, so you can perfectly be wrong.
You can be right, but you can be wrong. Please understand there's no difference from my point of view.
If you want me to leave the topic and cancel my petition so badly, please find a reliable source where I can confirm my problem is due to intended game mechanics, and link it. You'll never hear me anymore. ---<---@ JackFalcord |
Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 22:36:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Captain Falcord The whole reason I made this post is to give the community the chance to stop me beforehand so I could remove the petition before it makes the GMs waste their precious time, that would be better spent helping YOU.
Probably, 90% of the people who post "stupid" petitions don't care to discuss them at the forums, therefore consider my thread an act of respect towards the community, not the opposite.
Might be true, if you didn't ignore what was said and ask for official info that doesn't exist when you got an answer you didn't like. -
DesuSigs |
Nakimoto
Caldari Unnatural Growth Apotheosis of Virtue
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 22:37:00 -
[47]
I am sorry for your loss and hope the petition goes your way however as ANY experianced long time player of eve will tell you DO NOT ASSUME anything in eve will work as intended especially early post patch.
|
Captain Falcord
Gallente Ghost Festival
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 22:40:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Captain Falcord on 13/11/2008 22:41:05
Originally by: Crumplecorn
Originally by: Captain Falcord The whole reason I made this post is to give the community the chance to stop me beforehand so I could remove the petition before it makes the GMs waste their precious time, that would be better spent helping YOU.
Probably, 90% of the people who post "stupid" petitions don't care to discuss them at the forums, therefore consider my thread an act of respect towards the community, not the opposite.
Might be true, if you didn't ignore what was said and ask for official info that doesn't exist when you got an answer you didn't like.
Ignore? I didn't ignore anything, every little bit of information is well stored in my head. However, it's not enough. Oh, and if, like you just stated, such official info doesn't exist, my petition in order to gather such information is perfectly valid and should not considered "stupid" as you love to say, because it's been made to provide an information that has never been officially released.
Your reasoning fails in every possible direction, because neglecting my petition is based on assuming the information I want to gather from it is known, however, you just stated that information doesn't exist. The closest to it is opinions and approximations, which are far from being absolute truth. ---<---@ JackFalcord |
Tombozo
Caldari Bagman's Bookkeeping Services LLC
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 22:40:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Captain Falcord
Originally by: Tombozo
This is juvenile. I'm trying to help you, and I can assure you that no GM will approve reimbursement with the information you've given us. You either need to update your petition with irrefutable evidence, or give up on getting your ship back. And please, stop posting about it.
The whole reason I made this post is to give the community the chance to stop me beforehand so I could remove the petition before it makes the GMs waste their precious time, that would be better spent helping YOU.
Probably, 90% of the people who post "stupid" petitions don't care to discuss them at the forums, therefore consider my thread an act of respect towards the community, not the opposite.
The only thing I need to ultimately cancel my petition is EVIDENCE of my mistake, and evidence only comes from official information. Your reasonings might sound logic, but you don't work for CCP, so you can perfectly be wrong.
You can be right, but you can be wrong. Please understand there's no difference from my point of view.
If you want me to leave the topic and cancel my petition so badly, please find a reliable source where I can confirm my problem is due to intended game mechanics, and link it. You'll never hear me anymore.
Ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non que negat.
"The burden of proof rests on who asserts, not on who denies."
It doesn't matter if we can prove you wrong. You have to prove yourself correct. I just threw out about five scenarios for how you could have died, without CCP being responsible. There are no official documents outlining every possible way to die, and whether or not they are bugs. There are however, game mechanics that are used by virtually every character during virtually every EVE play session, that are assumed to be generally understood. One such mechanic is the warp-to-zero command, which any 3-day-old character can tell you will NOT always land you at 0 meters from your target. You have the burden of negating any and all non-bug-related scenarios (including variations on "you didn't land at 0 meters and got killed because of it") if you want to press your case successfully. Despite having had this pointed out to you several times by several people, you have thus far attempted to negate none of them. This is why you fail at logical discussions. |
Captain Falcord
Gallente Ghost Festival
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 22:46:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Captain Falcord on 13/11/2008 22:46:41
Originally by: Tombozo
Ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non que negat.
"The burden of proof rests on who asserts, not on who denies."
It doesn't matter if we can prove you wrong. You have to prove yourself correct. I just threw out about five scenarios for how you could have died, without CCP being responsible. There are no official documents outlining every possible way to die, and whether or not they are bugs. There are however, game mechanics that are used by virtually every character during virtually every EVE play session, that are assumed to be generally understood. One such mechanic is the warp-to-zero command, which any 3-day-old character can tell you will NOT always land you at 0 meters from your target. You have the burden of negating any and all non-bug-related scenarios (including variations on "you didn't land at 0 meters and got killed because of it") if you want to press your case successfully. Despite having had this pointed out to you several times by several people, you have thus far attempted to negate none of them. This is why you fail at logical discussions.
False.
You don't land at 0 meters. Okay I knew that. I also knew you are never supposed to land further than 2,5km which is the effective docking/jumping range, therefore it doesn't matter.
Non-bug-related scenario rejected, unless you post official information. Back to the starting point. Same can be said about all non-bug-related scenarios you posted.
You're assuming things, as much as I did. Who is right, you or me? Oh wait, the GM is right, we'll have to wait for him. Deal with the fact my petition will still be there, or link the info. ---<---@ JackFalcord |
|
Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 22:47:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Captain Falcord Ignore? I didn't ignore anything, every little bit of information is well stored in my head. However, it's not enough. Oh, and if, like you just stated, such official info doesn't exist, my petition in order to gather such information is perfectly valid and should not considered "stupid" as you love to say, because it's been made to provide an information that has never been officially released.
Your reasoning fails in every possible direction, because neglecting my petition is based on assuming the information I want to gather from it is known, however, you just stated that information doesn't exist. The closest to it is opinions and approximations, which are far from being absolute truth.
I'm sure if we had said that your petition was valid, you wouldn't have questioned it.
CCP do not list every unsafe situation because the list would be absurdly long if not infinite, not to mention full of common sense if it had to cater to the level you expect. You really expect CCP to put up a notice on the website, "going AFK in lowsec outside a station is ******ed, you will not be reimbursed" in response to this petition or ones like it?
Petitions are not for gathering information, especially that which has already been given to you. Petitions are for when you believe you have a genuine problem. You thought you did, came to us, found out you didn't, but have chosen to ignore an answer you didn't like and plunge ahead. If are so inclined to go crying to CCP over a loss, even one which was your own fault, perhaps a less harsh game would be more suitable for you. -
DesuSigs |
Captain Falcord
Gallente Ghost Festival
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 22:52:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Captain Falcord on 13/11/2008 22:56:56 Edited by: Captain Falcord on 13/11/2008 22:55:37
Originally by: Crumplecorn You thought you did, came to us, found out you didn't
Found out a certain part of the community thinks I didn't.
A part of the community that reverts to personal insults, repeating the "fail" meme and many other behaviours that make me doubt they're stable sources of information.
I'm afraid I couldn't care less about the opinions of such a collective.
Anyway, I've already taken my own conclusions about this: I won't get reimbursed, I will probably cancel my petition, if that makes you happy.
I'm off this thread, with a feeling of dissapointment about the community. All the bitter answers I got prove that humiliating is a common sport here, and the well-written and thought answers were hiding posters that, in the end, only wanted to get their slice of cake and insult a bit. Fair enough, I'll some day find you in my rifter ---<---@ JackFalcord |
Captain Falcord
Gallente Ghost Festival
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 22:54:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Crumplecorn
Originally by: Captain Falcord You don't land at 0 meters. Okay I knew that. I also knew you are never supposed to land further than 2,5km which is the effective docking/jumping range, therefore it doesn't matter.
Docking range is 0. And jumping range is actually 2.4 IIRC.
My bad, I didn't express correctly. Read it, I've edited. ---<---@ JackFalcord |
Tombozo
Caldari Bagman's Bookkeeping Services LLC
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 22:55:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Captain Falcord You don't land at 0 meters. Okay I knew that. I also knew you are never supposed to land further than 2,5km which is the effective docking/jumping range, therefore it doesn't matter.
False.
2.5 km is the effective jumping range, but not the effective docking range. No, I will not link you an official CCP press release stating this. It doesn't have to be documented to not be a bug. However, I did just test it. Here were my methods:
I hopped into a shuttle and started at 10km from a station. I pressed dock to begin my approach, and manually set my speed to 65 m/s. From 3km on in, I continually pressed "Dock" once a second. The docking request was not accepted until I was at 115 meters.
Why is this good evidence that the effective docking range is not 2.5 km? Because I spent over 36 seconds within 2.5 km of a station pressing "Dock", without being able to dock.
Now that we are certain that such a scenario could have caused the destruction of your ship, please disprove it. |
Captain Falcord
Gallente Ghost Festival
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 22:56:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Tombozo
Originally by: Captain Falcord You don't land at 0 meters. Okay I knew that. I also knew you are never supposed to land further than 2,5km which is the effective docking/jumping range, therefore it doesn't matter.
False.
2.5 km is the effective jumping range, but not the effective docking range. No, I will not link you an official CCP press release stating this. It doesn't have to be documented to not be a bug. However, I did just test it. Here were my methods:
I hopped into a shuttle and started at 10km from a station. I pressed dock to begin my approach, and manually set my speed to 65 m/s. From 3km on in, I continually pressed "Dock" once a second. The docking request was not accepted until I was at 115 meters.
Why is this good evidence that the effective docking range is not 2.5 km? Because I spent over 36 seconds within 2.5 km of a station pressing "Dock", without being able to dock.
Now that we are certain that such a scenario could have caused the destruction of your ship, please disprove it.
True, I expressed myself wrong. Re-read my message as it is edited, please, because now it is true. ---<---@ JackFalcord |
Tombozo
Caldari Bagman's Bookkeeping Services LLC
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 22:59:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Captain Falcord You don't land at 0 meters. Okay I knew that. I also knew you are never supposed to land further than 2,5km which is the effective jumping range, and in the dock case, you approach until docking, therefore it doesn't matter.
I see you edited your post while I was replying - good for you. I see that you haven't listened to a thing I've been saying - shame on you.
It is possible to be killed, in the time that you travel up to 2500 meters to the docking radius. This is not a bug, and you have not negated this possibility. |
Captain Falcord
Gallente Ghost Festival
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 23:00:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Tombozo
Originally by: Captain Falcord You don't land at 0 meters. Okay I knew that. I also knew you are never supposed to land further than 2,5km which is the effective jumping range, and in the dock case, you approach until docking, therefore it doesn't matter.
I see you edited your post while I was replying - good for you. I see that you haven't listened to a thing I've been saying - shame on you.
It is possible to be killed, in the time that you travel up to 2500 meters to the docking radius. This is not a bug, and you have not negated this possibility.
Death of my ship was registered 10 mins after the dock order. ---<---@ JackFalcord |
Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 23:02:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Captain Falcord
Originally by: Crumplecorn You thought you did, came to us, found out you didn't
Found out a certain part of the community thinks I didn't.
Actually the answers were unanimous I think. Which is, like, unheard of.
People around here, even the ones which start off with nice, friendly, detailed answers will degrade down into insults if you ignore what they say long enough. -
DesuSigs |
Aurore Delilah
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 23:03:00 -
[59]
Ok, Lets get this straight, Wether it's CCP's fault or your fault DOESN'T MATTER. Nor does it matter if you made a mistake or not.
What matters is this.
What proof is there that you ACTUALLY pressed the dock button?
None, So the GM's won't reimburse. |
Captain Falcord
Gallente Ghost Festival
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 23:04:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Aurore Delilah Ok, Lets get this straight, Wether it's CCP's fault or your fault DOESN'T MATTER. Nor does it matter if you made a mistake or not.
What matters is this.
What proof is there that you ACTUALLY pressed the dock button?
None, So the GM's won't reimburse.
Good. Someone at least has readed my title.
So the logs can't register that, right? :/
Okay, given that, I think I'll definitly admit my defeat. ---<---@ JackFalcord |
|
Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 23:04:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Captain Falcord Death of my ship was registered 10 mins after the dock order.
Genuine evidence that it was probably due to a failure to autodock. \o/
But, with ten minutes to do something about it in which you did nothing, nobody will care even if this is a bug. /o/ -
DesuSigs |
Captain Falcord
Gallente Ghost Festival
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 23:05:00 -
[62]
Edited by: Captain Falcord on 13/11/2008 23:05:48
Originally by: Crumplecorn
Originally by: Captain Falcord
Originally by: Crumplecorn You thought you did, came to us, found out you didn't
Found out a certain part of the community thinks I didn't.
Actually the answers were unanimous I think. Which is, like, unheard of.
People around here, even the ones which start off with nice, friendly, detailed answers will degrade down into insults if you ignore what they say long enough.
I'm really amazed by your inhability to make a difference between the terms "ignore" and "question". ---<---@ JackFalcord |
Tombozo
Caldari Bagman's Bookkeeping Services LLC
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 23:06:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Captain Falcord
Originally by: Tombozo
Originally by: Captain Falcord You don't land at 0 meters. Okay I knew that. I also knew you are never supposed to land further than 2,5km which is the effective jumping range, and in the dock case, you approach until docking, therefore it doesn't matter.
I see you edited your post while I was replying - good for you. I see that you haven't listened to a thing I've been saying - shame on you.
It is possible to be killed, in the time that you travel up to 2500 meters to the docking radius. This is not a bug, and you have not negated this possibility.
Death of my ship was registered 10 mins after the dock order.
It would be possible for someone to bump you while you're approaching the station, and continue bumping you until your dock command times out. They may not have to bump you more than once. They may not even have to bump you at all, because commands can time out for other reasons independent of interactions with other characters!
Could this have happened to you? Well, it's still hard to say with the information that you've given. Unfortunately, I doubt you'll be able to answer because you were AFK in space. |
Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 23:08:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Captain Falcord I'm really amazed by your inability to make a difference between the terms "ignore" and "question".
When you have to be told the same thing over and over again, it is filed under 'ignore'.
The answer you finally accepted just now was that you can't prove that you should have docked. Yet you were already told multiple times that the burden of proof is on you. -
DesuSigs |
Captain Falcord
Gallente Ghost Festival
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 23:12:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Crumplecorn
Originally by: Captain Falcord I'm really amazed by your inability to make a difference between the terms "ignore" and "question".
When you have to be told the same thing over and over again, it is filed under 'ignore'.
The answer you finally accepted just now was that you can't prove that you should have docked. Yet you were already told multiple times that the burden of proof is on you.
Yet I answered to all those posts that the burden of proof might be on the logs, and this girl was the first to kindly point me to the fact that logs (or gms) can't check that.
Read through it all and notice nobody did before.
Everyone was obsessed with proving it was my fault for not considering that situation, however nobody told me GMs couldn't make a difference. Knowing that now, there's no point in petitioning. ---<---@ JackFalcord |
Captain Falcord
Gallente Ghost Festival
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 23:13:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Tombozo
Originally by: Captain Falcord
Originally by: Tombozo
Originally by: Captain Falcord You don't land at 0 meters. Okay I knew that. I also knew you are never supposed to land further than 2,5km which is the effective jumping range, and in the dock case, you approach until docking, therefore it doesn't matter.
I see you edited your post while I was replying - good for you. I see that you haven't listened to a thing I've been saying - shame on you.
It is possible to be killed, in the time that you travel up to 2500 meters to the docking radius. This is not a bug, and you have not negated this possibility.
Death of my ship was registered 10 mins after the dock order.
It would be possible for someone to bump you while you're approaching the station, and continue bumping you until your dock command times out. They may not have to bump you more than once. They may not even have to bump you at all, because commands can time out for other reasons independent of interactions with other characters!
Could this have happened to you? Well, it's still hard to say with the information that you've given. Unfortunately, I doubt you'll be able to answer because you were AFK in space.
Okay. Now you caught me. That's a thing that really could happen. All the game mechanics that is based on are real and I know them. Since I can't prove that didn't happen to the GM, I lose.
See? It was not that hard. ---<---@ JackFalcord |
Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 23:16:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Captain Falcord Everyone was obsessed with proving it was my fault for not considering that situation, however nobody told me GMs couldn't make a difference. Knowing that now, there's no point in petitioning.
What do you mean knowing that? You were told that this was intended behaviour before, and various other things, and you demanded that a GM tell you, because everything on the forum is hearsay. But now you accept one person's word as authoritative on what the logs do or do not contain? -
DesuSigs |
Captain Falcord
Gallente Ghost Festival
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 23:17:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Crumplecorn
Originally by: Captain Falcord Everyone was obsessed with proving it was my fault for not considering that situation, however nobody told me GMs couldn't make a difference. Knowing that now, there's no point in petitioning.
What do you mean knowing that? You were told that this was intended behaviour before, and various other things, and you demanded that a GM tell you, because everything on the forum is hearsay. But now you accept one person's word as authoritative on what the logs do or do not contain?
Actually I did a bit of investigation on my side too, so it's not all thanks to her. ---<---@ JackFalcord |
Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 23:18:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Captain Falcord Actually I did a bit of investigation on my side too, so it's not all thanks to her.
Pity you didn't do it before posting the thread. -
DesuSigs |
Tombozo
Caldari Bagman's Bookkeeping Services LLC
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 23:19:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Captain Falcord Now you caught me.
I'll still dispute that I caught you "Now" (referring to the post that you quoted), because I had already brought up the exact same scenario in different words about three times. Thank you, however, for listening. |
|
Captain Falcord
Gallente Ghost Festival
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 23:19:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Crumplecorn
Originally by: Captain Falcord Actually I did a bit of investigation on my side too, so it's not all thanks to her.
Pity you didn't do it before posting the thread.
I did it from every bit of information to gave me. However, this girl's was the only one that gave me results. That's what I call constructive. ---<---@ JackFalcord |
Captain Falcord
Gallente Ghost Festival
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 23:21:00 -
[72]
Edited by: Captain Falcord on 13/11/2008 23:21:25
Originally by: Tombozo
Originally by: Captain Falcord Now you caught me.
I'll still dispute that I caught you "Now" (referring to the post that you quoted), because I had already brought up the exact same scenario in different words about three times. Thank you, however, for listening.
Please stop the demagogy crap. The closest to that scenario you posted was this
Originally by: Tombozo
It is entirely possible to kill someone after they come out of warp, but before they close the distance required to dock. This is an intended game mechanic.
(you see, I listen and remember)
It doesn't say the word "bump" anywhere: I didn't imagine bumping could be part of that strategy. When you pointed it out, THEN I understood. ---<---@ JackFalcord |
Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 23:22:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Captain Falcord
Originally by: Crumplecorn
Originally by: Captain Falcord Actually I did a bit of investigation on my side too, so it's not all thanks to her.
Pity you didn't do it before posting the thread.
I did it from every bit of information to gave me. However, this girl's was the only one that gave me results. That's what I call constructive.
Mmm hmm. OTOH, maybe you argued incessantly while you thought you were right, then agreed with first person who you had not already contradicted after realising you were wrong. -
DesuSigs |
Jmanis Catharg
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 23:23:00 -
[74]
Quote:
Soo I was just zipping around Amamake and when I felt like leaving, I did the usual "dock", watched warp initiation and minimized.
That's where you went wrong tbh.
I always wait for Aura to say 'Docking Request Accepted' before I minimize. And really, if you can't wait that long, well, lesson learnt for you. ---
Originally by: CCP Mitnal I went to the forums for special powers and all I got was a dancing padlock and a banhammer.
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Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
|
Posted - 2008.11.13 23:25:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Captain Falcord Please stop the demagogy crap. The closest to that scenario you posted was this
Originally by: Tombozo
It is entirely possible to kill someone after they come out of warp, but before they close the distance required to dock. This is an intended game mechanic.
(you see, I listen and remember)
It doesn't say the word "bump" anywhere: I didn't imagine bumping could be part of that strategy. When you pointed it out, THEN I understood.
Pedantism to the rescue, eh? Unfortunately, the scenario you say this doesn't match says this:
Originally by: Tombozo They may not even have to bump you at all
so they do match. -
DesuSigs |
McFly
C0LDFIRE RUDE Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.11.14 00:35:00 -
[76]
three pages of crap... oh well now u know.
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NightF0x
Gallente Chicken Coup Raiders
|
Posted - 2008.11.14 01:12:00 -
[77]
Anyone else wonder if this whole story is fabricated just to see how big of a stink he could make by demanding GM/Dev proof that he knows can't be generated or linked to? He turned around rather quickly on the log issue and I am pretty certain the log files will show that he requested the initial dock, after all it was the command that he issued to the server to initiate the warp. Maybe I'm wrong but I smell a poser. ------------------------------------
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
|
Posted - 2008.11.14 01:27:00 -
[78]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 14/11/2008 01:29:10
Originally by: Rhys Onasi Edited by: Rhys Onasi on 13/11/2008 21:14:56 It's not a QR bug.
I've had that issue for months.
Never assume you are going to dock at the end of a warp...
EDIT: Not that I am saying this isn't a bug, it's just not from QR.
This.
The issue isnt really someone bumping you off or anything, its just that at times the ship just will not dock, but will just warp there and sit. Until you tell it to dock yet again.
I've had this a number of times, which is why I just watch the screen until i'm sure im docked.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2008.11.14 01:30:00 -
[79]
Originally by: NightF0x Anyone else wonder if this whole story is fabricated just to see how big of a stink he could make by demanding GM/Dev proof that he knows can't be generated or linked to? He turned around rather quickly on the log issue and I am pretty certain the log files will show that he requested the initial dock, after all it was the command that he issued to the server to initiate the warp. Maybe I'm wrong but I smell a poser.
I dunno. I suspected a masterful troll, but a troll that good would have been able to keep going after the logs bit. He intentionally pulled out, which suggests a real poster trying to retreat from a failed argument. But then, maybe that's part of the troll too, to look more like a real poster.
/tinfoil -
DesuSigs |
Tzar'rim
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Posted - 2008.11.14 01:41:00 -
[80]
Originally by: NightF0x Anyone else wonder if this whole story is fabricated just to see how big of a stink he could make by demanding GM/Dev proof that he knows can't be generated or linked to? He turned around rather quickly on the log issue and I am pretty certain the log files will show that he requested the initial dock, after all it was the command that he issued to the server to initiate the warp. Maybe I'm wrong but I smell a poser.
Uh what?
@Falc; As Tomobozo explained the exit from warp isn't always exactly the same place so it can happen you land just outside of the docking zone having to fly a bit before docking. They could have nicked you there, in that case you won't get reimbursed.
Also, the dock command not docking you happens a lot, I tend to spam my docking command a few times (when in docking range) just to be sure and I never assume I'll autodock after warp. Not autodocking does happen and has been happening for ages, that's just how it is. But that doesn't neccesarily means it's an accepted feature.
However, since you gave a compounded command (warp+dock) and it did the first part you ought to be safe to assume it will also execute the second part as it cannot be that it somehow did get the warp part of the command but not the docking one, so if you did not land outside the docking zone and didn't autodock within a few seconds you might have a case. Regardless of the "lol you went afk in low-sec" e-thug replies.
Thing is, I'm assuming that the docking command after the warp is a client thing (hence the failures sometimes) and thus there properably was a communications hickup and the "logs will show nothing".
On the other hand I've heard more stories on how weapon grouping messes up things atm. personally I'm staying far away form it /strokes his 1st series G15.
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Tzar'rim
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Posted - 2008.11.14 01:44:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Crumplecorn
Originally by: NightF0x Anyone else wonder if this whole story is fabricated just to see how big of a stink he could make by demanding GM/Dev proof that he knows can't be generated or linked to? He turned around rather quickly on the log issue and I am pretty certain the log files will show that he requested the initial dock, after all it was the command that he issued to the server to initiate the warp. Maybe I'm wrong but I smell a poser.
I dunno. I suspected a masterful troll, but a troll that good would have been able to keep going after the logs bit. He intentionally pulled out, which suggests a real poster trying to retreat from a failed argument. But then, maybe that's part of the troll too, to look more like a real poster.
/tinfoil
Nah, I know him. He doesn't troll and he's not one of those whiney 'point elsewhere' people. Haven't spoken to him ingame about this yet but there's a few people you know that if they say/state something they tell you (their) truth.
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
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Posted - 2008.11.14 01:45:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Tzar'rim
However, since you gave a compounded command (warp+dock) and it did the first part you ought to be safe to assume it will also execute the second part as it cannot be that it somehow did get the warp part of the command but not the docking one, so if you did not land outside the docking zone and didn't autodock within a few seconds you might have a case. Regardless of the "lol you went afk in low-sec" e-thug replies.
Well, I've had it happen to me personally a few times, with me being in docking zone. I just spam dock and stand there until I see my ship safely docked. Sucks but meh.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2008.11.14 01:46:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Tzar'rim Nah, I know him. He doesn't troll and he's not one of those whiney 'point elsewhere' people. Haven't spoken to him ingame about this yet but there's a few people you know that if they say/state something they tell you (their) truth.
Ah, my paranoia is subsiding. Thank you. -
DesuSigs |
Allen Ramses
Caldari Typo Corp
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Posted - 2008.11.14 02:19:00 -
[84]
The hard facts are three.
1: Docking range is 1,500 meters. 2: Assuming warp from a dead stop, you will land less than 2,500 from your target. 3: 2,500 meters is the maximum deviation for a warp-to-zero command.
Based upon the above, you have greater than 60% chance of warping within docking range. Given that, you'd need 10 seconds at the most with a battleship to reach docking range if you landed outside docking range.
However, it is known that the vast majority of dock requests from warp are ignored. It is definitely a bug, and definitely not intended. I find myself more often than not clicking three times to dock. And in LoSec, I am more afraid of a station camp when I am docking than when I am undocking.
I believe the problem lies with client/server lag. The client sends a dock request, but according to the server, you are still in warp so it throws an exception. Either way, the logs will definitely show a docking request... if they're logged. If it were logged, and up to me, I'd give you your ship back as a first time occasion. But I'm not a GM, so I can't help you.
Anyway, you must be careful in the future. I almost lost a cerb to this bug, and I was not happy about it. ____________________ Pimped out Raven to run level 4 missions quickly: 210 Mil ISK. Realizing your 120 Mil ISK Drake gets the job done faster: Priceless. Made a reality by speed and missile nerf. |
Nalar Marnith
Minmatar SniggWaffe
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Posted - 2008.11.14 03:30:00 -
[85]
Edited by: Nalar Marnith on 14/11/2008 03:33:36 I've hit dock many times and my ship has just been sitting there outside the station. Once I did the same as you and my shield extended stabber got taken to armour in the time it took me to switch back to eve (was checking some info on the intarwebs). If I'd lost the ship/pod it would have been my fault.
Going AFK in lowsec without ensuring your ship is safe is at best russian roulette. I understand it sucks, but you'll have to take this one on the chin and be thankful you didn't have a head full of +5s.
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Cat Molina
Minmatar Psychotic Inc.
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Posted - 2008.11.14 03:56:00 -
[86]
The OP keeps saying 'intended mechanic' as if it is some sort of mantra. This does not conform to known reality.
Known reality is that sometimes the dock command doesn't take hold. You can complain all day that it is not an 'intended mechanic' that sometimes you don't successfully dock. But that won't change the reality of the game.
The brutal reality is that pilots in Eve have to ensure they successfully docked if they're in dangerous areas. Doesn't matter what you thought was intended... or even what those who made this game actually intended.
We deal with the actual mechanics we have before us. Not intentions.
That being said: Petition it. It's CCP's call, and you never know. And next time you visit Amamake, make sure you see hangar before going AFK.
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Amateratsu
Caldari Terra Incognita Vanguard.
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Posted - 2008.11.14 05:15:00 -
[87]
The warp to dock bug is not new, its been around for some time and is listed in the known issues page so is aknoledged as a known bug by the devs.
Providing you get a GM who is aware of the bug, there is a good chance you will be reinbursed as long as there was no other players interfering with your dock the moment your arived at the station.
Only the GM will be able to tell if your faliur to dock was due to the bug or to other players bumping you off the station.
P.S ALWAYS make sure you have docked before you go afk or log off
Good luck with your petition.
á
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Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2008.11.14 05:33:00 -
[88]
Look at it this way, your arguement could be followed the same as someone who hit "Dock" and before ensuring they entered warp, left the computer to idle a while. Little to his knowlege an NPC group spawns nearby and scrams you while chewing you down. By the time you come back some player has podded you.
You left eve while undocked on the assumption you were going to make it back to station safely. Someone could have easily bumped you off the station before you got within actual docking range, how are you sure it was a bug if you were not watching
Oh and CCP have stated, WTZ on stations is never fully guarentee'd to bring you within docking range, so don't say that part isnt working as intended when CCP have stated it Is.
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Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2008.11.14 05:39:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Allen Ramses The hard facts are three.
1: Docking range is 1,500 meters.
Actually Its more like 750 or 800 IIRC.
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Tiirae
The New Era HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2008.11.14 05:57:00 -
[90]
I hope he hasn't canceled his petition. His responses to the various assertions in this thread are so pedantic I frankly can't wait to hear what he thinks of the GM response.
"Our logs show nothing; petition denied"
You gonna start arguing burden of proof with the GMs too, Captain Failcord?
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MrChook
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
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Posted - 2008.11.14 07:01:00 -
[91]
Yes, it's a known bug.
Yes, it's annoying (particularly with kid agro).
Your petition will be denied for the same reason that undock range (also a known bug) petitions are denied which is that it's too easy for players to exploit the petition system when they were actually at fault since the logs are insufficient to determine if you were bumped/whatever to keep you out of range.
Kinda surprised you lasted 10 minutes sitting outside a station in Amamake before you got blown up
Cheers
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Nim Caslo
Gallente 1st Special Pilots Hippeis Group
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Posted - 2008.11.14 07:30:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Captain Falcord
Originally by: Aloriana Jacques No excuses. Your actions were the equvalent of "I went AFK and came back dead." It's YOUR responsibility to make sure you are SAFE before walking away.
Okay. Now explain to me. Is there any difference between my problem and "I was docked and the character undocked itself and self-destructed"?.
No, there isn't. In both cases, the character was in a situation described as SAFE. And don't be so childish to tell me I was not safe due to game mechanics. I was unsafe due to a BUG in game mechanics, because my situation was theoretically safe (when the dock functions works as intended, you can't be stopped).
My situation was safe and I spent enough time checking it: Just enough time to see myself catch that warp. Any more time spent is a waste of time, except, obviously, the cases in which a BUG makes unsafe a situation that should be safe.
You are NEVER safe until docked. Never assume something is going to work properly. when sitting in a friggin Pod, dont assume you're going to dock, especially if you have +4's on the line.
Some common sense would do you good. Who AFK's while in a pod? ========================================== |
Cpt Cosmic
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Posted - 2008.11.14 07:50:00 -
[93]
Edited by: Cpt Cosmic on 14/11/2008 07:50:23 not quite as bad as needing to hit jump button million times even if the system is empty and without lag to just initiate the jump.
btw I heard from a much worse thing in QR from militia chat and voice yelling in gangs quite often. cannot say if its true, havent been popped recently and the bug never happened to me: If your ship is going to pop, the pod comes out BEFORE the ship is destroyed, you still see your ship, you see like it explodes afterwards and you cannot warp as long the ship is not destroyed => you get locked and podded => enjoy the free trip to your homestation. maybe this has something to do with lag but from what I have heard they had no lag and there were like 10 guys in the system.
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