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Tempest. I don't get it.

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Jorah Vulture Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2008.11.14 14:01:00 - [1] Okay, everyone seems to be whining about the tempest. BS sized minnie guns suck, it's a hevavy ship, duct tape, etc. But, from time to time, I spot comments like "obviously tempest is the best 1v1 battleship" and "tempest excels at sniping". What the hell is going on with the tempest? Is it good or bad?
Gneeznow Minmatar North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.11.14 14:02:00 - [2] its good if you know how to fly it and have good skills for it, its bad if you ask anyone on the forums.
Sokratesz Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.11.14 14:04:00 - [3] Tempest is a bad sniper actually, needs grid mod, lacks targeting range and large artillery is just ****. Unless you go with a terribly expensive or strange set-up it's unlikely to to well against the average other BS, too. So yeah tempest still sux. Wyvern & Chimera fitting flowchart
NightmareX D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.11.14 14:33:00 - [4] I can to some point agree that Tempest doesn't shine so much with Artilleries. But i still use Artypest in fleet fights anyways, because the Tempest is very fun to use. Sok can confirm that i ONLY use Tempest's in fleet fights. But then, Autopest now is very good in 1 vs 1 fights. Not that you will get into may of those fights. But like my Tempest, with the setup i use on my Autopest, it's both very good in 1 vs 1 fights and in small scale PVP fights. To be very good and effective in the Tempest, you need to be very specializated and very experienced with the Tempest before you can do a good job in the ship. Like me, i only need to take the Large Autocannon Specialization skill from level 4 to 5, and then i'm maxed with the Autopest. But if your new to the Tempest, i would not recommend the ship to you to begin with. Check out my new flash web page 'Alpha Strike'
Jin Entres Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams	Posted - 2008.11.14 14:41:00 - [5] Originally by: Gneeznow its good if you know how to fly it and have good skills for it, its bad if you ask anyone on the forums. There are bad arguments on both sides. It is common for people to draw conclusions from their limited and unrepresentative experience. Every ship performs poorly sometimes and every ship performs well sometimes. And just because a ship is only 80% as effective as its counterparts doesn't mean it can't do its job; it just means the pilot has to make up for that 20% by skills, fittings, tactics and everything else that comes into play in an actual situation. But where balance is concerned, a 20% difference in starting performance is huge. There are always better and worse ways to fly a ship aswell as better and worse pilots doing the flying but the one reliable thing that can be measured is numbers. Numbers don't lie. But do not forget to keep in mind the bigger picture: consider all advantages a ship has vs another ship and their relative worth for the job they are supposed to perform. From personal experience, Tempest is fun to fly. It looks cool. Having 2 heavy neuts is great. But I'll take a phoon if it's BS vs BS I want to excel at. ----------------------
Solid Prefekt Minmatar Haven Front	Posted - 2008.11.14 17:25:00 - [6] Tempest sucks now. The across the board tank buff, amarr buff, and introduction of the Rokh dropped it from being one of the best in fleets with the nail in the coffin being the the change in the Sensor booster to using scripts. I was barely able to hang with the other race battleships, but after that it became very hard to have optimal range, targeting range, tracking, and DPS. The other race options are clearly better in T2 Sniping BS fleets. I guess someone has to be the worst. If we were all the same then the game would be no fun. We still have our fast ships.
whisk Gallente Quam Singulari Warp to Desktop	Posted - 2008.11.14 17:28:00 - [7] pest is my fav non faction Bs Adapt or Die
Isonkon Serikain Gallente 0utbreak	Posted - 2008.11.14 18:32:00 - [8] Originally by: Solid Prefekt Edited by: Solid Prefekt on 14/11/2008 17:41:14 Edited by: Solid Prefekt on 14/11/2008 17:40:36 Tempest is definitely not what it was. The across the board tank buff, amarr buff, and introduction of the Rokh dropped it from being one of the best in fleets. The nail in the coffin was the the change in the Sensor booster to using scripts. I was barely able to hang with the other race battleships, but after that it became very hard to have proper optimal range, targeting range, tracking, and DPS. The other race options are clearly better in T2 Sniping BS fleets. I guess someone has to be the worst. If we were all the same then the game would be no fun. We still have our fast ships. This guy sums it up... Oh and it sucks with AC setups too. Every first tier bs except the scorpion has a setup that will pwn any tempest AC setup in a slug fight. That's how much of a sad little child the tempest has become. If anyone can prove me wrong, please post your setup here, I'd love to have it.
NightmareX D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.11.14 19:31:00 - [9] Edited by: NightmareX on 14/11/2008 19:33:33 Originally by: Isonkon Serikain Oh and it sucks with AC setups too. Every first tier bs except the scorpion has a setup that will pwn any tempest AC setup in a slug fight. That's how much of a sad little child the tempest has become. If anyone can prove me wrong, please post your setup here, I'd love to have it. LOL, this made my day actually. Have you EVER tried a Tempest with a good setup?. If yes, tell me your setup and experience with the ship. And how much skills do you have in Minmatar Battleships?. Wanna try a Geddon, Abaddon, Mega, Scorp or a Raven against a Tempest pilot with an IQ higher than a monkey?. I bet you will facepalm a lot when you see how much a Tempest actually can take before it goes down. Check out my new flash web page 'Alpha Strike'
whisk Gallente Quam Singulari Warp to Desktop	Posted - 2008.11.14 19:38:00 - [10] Edited by: whisk on 14/11/2008 19:39:25 Originally by: NightmareX Edited by: NightmareX on 14/11/2008 19:33:33 Originally by: Isonkon Serikain Oh and it sucks with AC setups too. Every first tier bs except the scorpion has a setup that will pwn any tempest AC setup in a slug fight. That's how much of a sad little child the tempest has become. If anyone can prove me wrong, please post your setup here, I'd love to have it. LOL, this made my day actually. Have you EVER tried a Tempest with a good setup?. If yes, tell me your setup and experience with the ship. And how much skills do you have in Minmatar Battleships?. Wanna try a Geddon, Abaddon, Mega, Scorp or a Raven against a Tempest pilot with an IQ higher than a monkey?. I bet you will facepalm a lot when you see how much a Tempest actually can take before it goes down. is this when you start telling how good your SISI tempest is?:D but yes, tempest is great ship, specialy vs support, it might not do much dps, but yo can neut and jamm and **:P Adapt or Die**
NightmareX D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.11.14 19:42:00 - [11] Edited by: NightmareX on 14/11/2008 19:43:44 Originally by: whisk Originally by: NightmareX Edited by: NightmareX on 14/11/2008 19:33:33 Originally by: Isonkon Serikain Oh and it sucks with AC setups too. Every first tier bs except the scorpion has a setup that will pwn any tempest AC setup in a slug fight. That's how much of a sad little child the tempest has become. If anyone can prove me wrong, please post your setup here, I'd love to have it. LOL, this made my day actually. Have you EVER tried a Tempest with a good setup?. If yes, tell me your setup and experience with the ship. And how much skills do you have in Minmatar Battleships?. Wanna try a Geddon, Abaddon, Mega, Scorp or a Raven against a Tempest pilot with an IQ higher than a monkey?. I bet you will facepalm a lot when you see how much a Tempest actually can take before it goes down. is this when you start telling how good your SISI tempest is?:D Ehm no. Take the last Tempest i had, took a Blaster Mega pilot like 4 mins to take down my Tempest. He even had to use an armor rep pill to be able to survive me. But to bad, i didn't had one armor rep pill with me, and i forgot to overload my guns. If i have been doing that, the story would be something else, and i would win that fight then. But i only got 1 jam cycle on him though. So if i had got 1 or 2 more i would also win. Do you want fraps from that fight to?. Check out my new flash web page 'Alpha Strike'
Dianeces The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.11.14 19:48:00 - [12] Originally by: NightmareX But i only got 1 jam cycle on him though. So if i had got 1 or 2 more i would also win. Multispecs on everything. You heard it here first folks.
Amantus Gallente 0utbreak	Posted - 2008.11.14 19:54:00 - [13] Edited by: Amantus on 14/11/2008 19:54:37 CCP Zulupark said that it rocks. Thus, it rocks. Argument over. It's shit.
NightmareX D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.11.14 19:59:00 - [14] Edited by: NightmareX on 14/11/2008 20:00:47 Originally by: Amantus It's shit. I think it's you that are the ** with the Tempest. Originally by:** Dianeces Originally by: NightmareX But i only got 1 jam cycle on him though. So if i had got 1 or 2 more i would also win. Multispecs on everything. You heard it here first folks. Uhm, when you have 5 mid slots, then you have 5 mid slots.
Hyveres Caldari	Posted - 2008.11.14 20:09:00 - [15] My impression is that it is a good ship if you got the rather sick ammounts of SP it takes to utilize it properly. Ofcourse I do not fly it but thats what my tempest flying friends indicate :) When I say sick ammounts it is compared to any other T1 battlehip at a similar level of effectivness :)
Jin Entres Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams	Posted - 2008.11.14 20:25:00 - [16] Originally by: Hyveres My impression is that it is a good ship if you got the rather sick ammounts of SP it takes to utilize it properly. Ofcourse I do not fly it but thats what my tempest flying friends indicate :) When I say sick ammounts it is compared to any other T1 battlehip at a similar level of effectivness :) Which, really, is a roundabout way of saying it sucks. NightmareX, you are kind of proving what I said (scroll up). Anecdotal evidence means nothing. ----------------------
Atius Tirawa Minmatar Wreckless Abandon G00DFELLAS	Posted - 2008.11.14 20:28:00 - [17] Poor lock range, poor optimal range, low dps are not compensated with a good alpha. . .especially since a tach-Abaddon will out alpha a tempest. -----------
Vrabac Zawa's Fan Club	Posted - 2008.11.14 20:38:00 - [18] Edited by: Vrabac on 14/11/2008 20:40:07 Originally by: NightmareX Take the last Tempest i had, took a Blaster Mega pilot like 4 mins to take down my Tempest. He even had to use an armor rep pill to be able to survive me. But to bad, i didn't had one armor rep pill with me, and i forgot to overload my guns. If i have been doing that, the story would be something else, and i would win that fight then. But i only got 1 jam cycle on him though. So if i had got 1 or 2 more i would also win. Do you want fraps from that fight to?. So you are proving that tempest is great for 1 vs 1 based on a 1 vs 1 that you actually lost against a blaster mega with repers and you had jammers fitted? Yes please provide us the fraps of a 1 vs 1 fight that you lost that will prove how good tempest is in 1 vs 1, with jammers fitted and all. P.S. To answer OP: not everything you read on forums is true. There are terrible terrible things written all over this place by people who manage to do it while still appearing "smart" to someone who's not familiar with subject.
NightmareX D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.11.14 20:51:00 - [19] Hey, i'm just trying to tell peoples to stop failing in the Tempest and use the ship like it should be used. And to the guy over here. Well it all depends on how much my ECM works. And i'm saying it again, and i hope i don't need to say it one more time. Auto Tempest is very effective in small scale pvp. It's there where is shines. But some funny guys here just think the Tempest must sucks only because it's not so good in sniping and that. Well 3 years with a Tempest should be enough to say how good the ship is.
Vrabac Zawa's Fan Club	Posted - 2008.11.14 21:06:00 - [20] Originally by: NightmareX And to the guy over here. Well it all depends on how much my ECM works. So you are building your case of tempest being good around the random factor of how much non bonused ECM works? I can also show you fraps of tempests getting instapopped in both bigger and small scale fights, would that prove anything? I also once soloed raven with omen, does that prove something too?
TYCONDEROGA Amarr Malum Crusis IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.11.14 21:12:00 - [21] High: AC + Nuets Mids: Cap Booster + Sensor boosters + Web/Scram Lows: Plates/Tank/Gyros = win Versatility He who defends Everything, Defends Nothing!
NightmareX D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.11.14 21:17:00 - [22] Originally by: Vrabac Originally by: NightmareX And to the guy over here. Well it all depends on how much my ECM works. So you are building your case of tempest being good around the random factor of how much non bonused ECM works? I can also show you fraps of tempests getting instapopped in both bigger and small scale fights, would that prove anything? I also once soloed raven with omen, does that prove something too? The Heavy Neut and ECM is one of the things that are helping the Tempest to stay alive yeah. But ofc, Smart players -> Skilled players. And yeah, i have seen a Rifter solo a Megathron after the QR expansion though. Yes sir, Battleships are not solo pwn machines anylonger like they was. Check out my new flash web page 'Alpha Strike'
Nexus Kinnon Neo Spartans	Posted - 2008.11.14 21:19:00 - [23] well you see i killed this guy on sisi in my tempest and that means its good youre just too stupid to use it properly tbh
Kery Syander The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.11.14 21:23:00 - [24] It's the best battleship because of how versatile it is. It can beat any other BS 1v1 every time. It's also the best example of CCP's developers being really smart and ignoring all the moronic whiners on the forums who complain that it's not good because it lacks things like damage or grid or the ability to fit a decent weapon system like lasers. Clearly, it is good because it's got so many slots all over, doesn't need to drain it's massive capacitor to fire it's guns, and it can change it's damage type mid fight. I know I personally love going into a fight with my AC pest and when my Uranium L isn't doing the trick, I can swap out to Titanium Sabot L or Proton L to do crazy amounts of damage. Also, it looks really cool which helps to validate my previous balance-related points. -----
Captator Universal Securities	Posted - 2008.11.14 21:45:00 - [25] Originally by: NightmareX Ehm no. Take the last Tempest i had, took a Blaster Mega pilot like 4 mins to take down my Tempest. He even had to use an armor rep pill to be able to survive me. But to bad, i didn't had one armor rep pill with me, and i forgot to overload my guns. If i have been doing that, the story would be something else, and i would win that fight then. But i only got 1 jam cycle on him though. So if i had got 1 or 2 more i would also win. Do you want fraps from that fight to?. If you fight in a tempest without slave set/implants/faction mods, how does it perform against similarly implantless BS. Having done that, how does it perform against slaved/crystalled/w/e implanted faction fit BS while remaining implantless itself. I am of the opinion that the tempest is possibly the best 1v1 ship in the game, but I can always find a better ship in small gang or fleet warfare. The reason I ask you to demonstrate results without all your fancy implants and faction mods(or w/e), is that if it massively underperforms without the advantage of tons of isk thrown at it, then it is not balanced. If however, you manage to win as much as you lose (against similarly skilled or at least competent pilots), then it is as you say, fine. This would also lend a greater degree of credibility to your (paraphrasing), 'look guys, I pwned all these people in my tempest', if you managed it without implants etc, and even perhaps against an opponent who has them while you do not. Disclaimer: tempest is ****in hawt
NightmareX D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.11.14 22:06:00 - [26] I'm not using implants at all, and i will never as long i'm a PVPer / Pirate. I was also using no implants in the fight with the Mega, and i was using pure t2 setup.
Captator Universal Securities	Posted - 2008.11.14 22:18:00 - [27] Originally by: NightmareX I'm not using implants at all, and i will never as long i'm a PVPer / Pirate. I was also using no implants in the fight with the Mega, and i was using pure t2 setup. Why do you reguarly get accused of using slave sets then? Moving to small gang, what niche do you fill that isn't filled better by a different BS, or rather, how is it better to bring a tempest than any other BS? Justify your position that Tempest != suck
NightmareX D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.11.14 22:26:00 - [28] Originally by: Captator Originally by: NightmareX I'm not using implants at all, and i will never as long i'm a PVPer / Pirate. I was also using no implants in the fight with the Mega, and i was using pure t2 setup. Why do you reguarly get accused of using slave sets then? Moving to small gang, what niche do you fill that isn't filled better by a different BS, or rather, how is it better to bring a tempest than any other BS? Justify your position that Tempest != suck They accuse me for that yeah, but no idea why they are doing it. Well at least, i can do a good job without slaves and that anyways in a Tempest.
Nexus Kinnon Neo Spartans	Posted - 2008.11.14 22:51:00 - [29] Originally by: NightmareX Originally by: Captator Originally by: NightmareX I'm not using implants at all, and i will never as long i'm a PVPer / Pirate. I was also using no implants in the fight with the Mega, and i was using pure t2 setup. Why do you reguarly get accused of using slave sets then? Moving to small gang, what niche do you fill that isn't filled better by a different BS, or rather, how is it better to bring a tempest than any other BS? Justify your position that Tempest != suck They accuse me for that yeah, but no idea why they are doing it. Well at least, i can do a good job without slaves and that anyways in a Tempest. Since you missed the point of his post, I made it a bit more obvious for you.
whisk Gallente Quam Singulari Warp to Desktop	Posted - 2008.11.14 22:56:00 - [30] Originally by: Nexus Kinnon Originally by: NightmareX Originally by: Captator Originally by: NightmareX I'm not using implants at all, and i will never as long i'm a PVPer / Pirate. I was also using no implants in the fight with the Mega, and i was using pure t2 setup. Why do you reguarly get accused of using slave sets then? Moving to small gang, what niche do you fill that isn't filled better by a different BS, or rather, how is it better to bring a tempest than any other BS? Justify your position that Tempest != suck They accuse me for that yeah, but no idea why they are doing it. Well at least, i can do a good job without slaves and that anyways in a Tempest. Since you missed the point of his post, I made it a bit more obvious for you. Desent DPS, no cap usage on guns, ability to use heany neuts, now that webs are nerfed, only bs that is good vs support versile justify your position that tempst = suck

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