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Tempest. I don't get it.

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Thercon Jair Minmatar InQuest Ascension Skunk-Works	Posted - 2008.11.16 02:31:00 - [91] Originally by: NightmareX Edited by: NightmareX on 16/11/2008 02:23:08 Well, i kinda have a proof now that the damage output on a Sniper Tempest is not to joke about. Was shooting a POS today with 161 guys heh, and guess who one of the top 3 guys are on that list?, yes it's me in my Tempest. Link to the killmail is HERE. Took like 15-20 mins to take it down. We all warped into that POS at the same time, was then 3 mins left of the reinforced time. And the seconds after the reinforced timer was over, we was all shooting it. I'm just outdamaged by 25k damage, so that's NOT much. Maybe that tells me why there are so many Tempest's in our fleets. Still someone that have some extremely ****ed reasons why a Sniper Tempest doesn't have good damage?. That's the thing with the damage types that I mentioned in my post above yours. If I'm not mistaken an unhardened Domination Tower should have 50% em, 25% thermal, 0% kinetic and 0% explosive resistances. The megas that are above you use split thermal/kinetic ammo, which means that they get a -25% damage reduction on the thermal part of their damage. We don't need to talk about amarr ships here Your tempest was conveniently hitting into the explosive/kinetic 0% resistance. That is, if you were using the correct ammo types for that type of tower. Real men do it the hard way: fly Minmatar!**
NightmareX D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.11.16 02:36:00 - [92] Edited by: NightmareX on 16/11/2008 02:42:30 Originally by: Thercon Jair Originally by: NightmareX Edited by: NightmareX on 16/11/2008 02:23:08 Well, i kinda have a proof now that the damage output on a Sniper Tempest is not to joke about. Was shooting a POS today with 161 guys heh, and guess who one of the top 3 guys are on that list?, yes it's me in my Tempest. Link to the killmail is HERE. Took like 15-20 mins to take it down. We all warped into that POS at the same time, was then 3 mins left of the reinforced time. And the seconds after the reinforced timer was over, we was all shooting it. I'm just outdamaged by 25k damage, so that's NOT much. Maybe that tells me why there are so many Tempest's in our fleets. Still someone that have some extremely ******ed reasons why a Sniper Tempest doesn't have good damage?. That's the thing with the damage types that I mentioned in my post above yours. If I'm not mistaken an unhardened Domination Tower should have 50% em, 25% thermal, 0% kinetic and 0% explosive resistances. The megas that are above you use split thermal/kinetic ammo, which means that they get a -25% damage reduction on the thermal part of their damage. We don't need to talk about amarr ships here Your tempest was conveniently hitting into the explosive/kinetic 0% resistance. That is, if you were using the correct ammo types for that type of tower. And if you look at the Armageddon under me and the Mega that is on top of the killmail, there they was using Sentry Drones that takes lots of damage. And i was using no drones when we took down the POS. But yeah, i was using Quake L on the POS. BTW, anyone that can proove me a better hit than this with all 6 guns on the Tempest grouped into 1?: 01:32:37 Combat Group of 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II hit Minmatar Control Tower [AWECO](IRC)=Minmatar Control Tower= for 9834 damage. Oh at least, it was OVER 9000. That's basicly 1639 damage per gun if you look at it that way. My next goal is to hit 10k. Check out my new flash web page 'Alpha Strike'
Thercon Jair Minmatar InQuest Ascension Skunk-Works	Posted - 2008.11.16 02:44:00 - [93] Originally by: NightmareX Edited by: NightmareX on 16/11/2008 02:40:28 Originally by: Thercon Jair Originally by: NightmareX Edited by: NightmareX on 16/11/2008 02:23:08 Well, i kinda have a proof now that the damage output on a Sniper Tempest is not to joke about. Was shooting a POS today with 161 guys heh, and guess who one of the top 3 guys are on that list?, yes it's me in my Tempest. Link to the killmail is HERE. Took like 15-20 mins to take it down. We all warped into that POS at the same time, was then 3 mins left of the reinforced time. And the seconds after the reinforced timer was over, we was all shooting it. I'm just outdamaged by 25k damage, so that's NOT much. Maybe that tells me why there are so many Tempest's in our fleets. Still someone that have some extremely ****ed reasons why a Sniper Tempest doesn't have good damage?. That's the thing with the damage types that I mentioned in my post above yours. If I'm not mistaken an unhardened Domination Tower should have 50% em, 25% thermal, 0% kinetic and 0% explosive resistances. The megas that are above you use split thermal/kinetic ammo, which means that they get a -25% damage reduction on the thermal part of their damage. We don't need to talk about amarr ships here Your tempest was conveniently hitting into the explosive/kinetic 0% resistance. That is, if you were using the correct ammo types for that type of tower. And if you look at the Armageddon under me and the Mega that is on top of the killmail, there they was using Sentry Drones that takes lots of damage. And i was using no drones when we took down the POS. But yeah, i was using Quake L on the POS. BTW, anyone that can proove me a better hit than this with all 6 guns on the Tempest grouped into 1?: 01:32:37 Combat Group of 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II hit Minmatar Control Tower [AWECO](IRC)=Minmatar Control Tower= for 9834 damage. That's basicly 1639 damage per gun if you look at it that way. my next goal is to hit 10k. \o/ Another person who knows what to do with quake Using Quake over Republic Fleet EMP gets my damage from 502dps to 555dps, which is a considerate difference in damage over the course of 20minutes (not to mention that using EMP on that POS would have been a bad move) Real men do it the hard way: fly Minmatar!**
NightmareX D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.11.16 02:54:00 - [94] Hehe, i think almost 3 years under a Tempest should teach you on what to use after what your shooting. Check out my new flash web page 'Alpha Strike'
Thercon Jair Minmatar InQuest Ascension Skunk-Works	Posted - 2008.11.16 02:56:00 - [95] Originally by: NightmareX Hehe, i think almost 3 years under a Tempest should teach you on what to use after what your shooting. So you're one of those guys who is constantly changing scripts and ammo to match ranges and stuff, just like me? Real men do it the hard way: fly Minmatar!
NightmareX D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.11.16 03:02:00 - [96] Edited by: NightmareX on 16/11/2008 03:02:01 Originally by: Thercon Jair Originally by: NightmareX Hehe, i think almost 3 years under a Tempest should teach you on what to use after what your shooting. So you're one of those guys who is constantly changing scripts and ammo to match ranges and stuff, just like me? Well yeah, i do to some point. First, i ALWAYS fly my Sniper Tempest with Tremor L and Quake L ammo. And my Med Slot are: 3x Sensor Booster II (2 with Targeting Range script & 1 with Scan Resolution script) 1x Tracking Computer II 1x 100MN MicroWarpdrive II So i don't directly need to change any scripts. When i'm in a gang, my lock range are around 205-210 km, and that's enough, because i can still hit at that range. And my Sniper Tempest also have defense against HIC's, Cruisers and frigs if they get close enough, because i have 2x Medium Energy Neuts II and 7x Medium T2 drones in my Drone bay. Check out my new flash web page 'Alpha Strike'
Malik77	Posted - 2008.11.16 03:06:00 - [97] The problem with the tempest is that the Maelstorm does everything better. It has a better tank and higher dps. The only advantage that the Tempest has is the 2 utility high slots. So in small gangs throw some nuets in there. As far as anything else goes, I'd rather fly a Maelstorm.
Myrkala Minmatar Aurora Acclivitous	Posted - 2008.11.16 03:08:00 - [98] Originally by: NightmareX Oh at least, it was OVER 9000.
Thercon Jair Minmatar InQuest Ascension Skunk-Works	Posted - 2008.11.16 03:14:00 - [99] Actually, the damage gain with my skills if I flew a Maelstrom is exactly 17dps. Range and falloff is exactly the same. The maelstrom just locks slower but a bit farther (tempest locks to 209km, given that I have 152km optimal with tremor and 43km falloff it doesn't matter), but has less tracking, is slower and less agile has just slightly more EHP. Oh, and it costs more. No, for fleet fittings I'm not going to use a Maelstrom over the Tempest. And if I think that, would I cram 2 cruise missile launcher on, I could actually out-DPS the Maelstrom... (yes, not viable for fleets, just theory-play)
Norwood Franskly Minmatar Fleet of the Damned Dark Trinity Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.16 03:25:00 - [100] Originally by: Yakov Draken Originally by: Ambere Ataron if your worried about the lack of a point i must ask wtf is wrong with your gang that a bs is being relied on for point... I fly in small gangs and I want to be able to put a point on as many ships in the opposing gang as possible so yes I want a point on my BS. Add in the times when its necessary to split forces to catch someone and I like lots of points in a small gang. Use hics and interdictors, saves you having to fit disruptors on absolutely everything. Personally I don't like any of the Minmatar BS for pvp, large autocannons just aren't worth much chop. I use a Tempest as a sniper and to shoot pos's because I'm not skilled for any other race but for roaming gangs I like a Sleipnir or even a hurricane, faster locking way more agile and you can still push out 600 dps or more.
Pant Alones Surge.	Posted - 2008.11.17 02:11:00 - [101] All flaming and bull**** aside, does putting an ECM on a tempest still really work alright? I thought that trend kinda died out in 2005. I might have to actually buy a tempest if it's still viable. ------------------------
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.11.17 05:19:00 - [102] Originally by: NightmareX Wanna try a Geddon, Abaddon, Mega, Scorp or a Raven against a Tempest pilot with an IQ higher than a monkey?. I bet you will facepalm a lot when you see how much a Tempest actually can take before it goes down. I find it odd that you include the Scorpion in your list when it's rarely considered an actual frontline combat ship. The Rokh seems to be a more appropiate entry. That being said, if the Scorpion pilot knows without a doubt that he's going to be fighting a Pest 1V1 the Scorpion in all probability would win. You can't overlook the fact that all the performance figures in the world (I.E. tank, gank, speed, dronebay, etc) won't overcome the simple fact that the scorpion has the single greatest countermeasure: ECM. If you know your enemy is in a particular ship type in a scorpion the ever flexible scorpion can be custom build to counter it's every advatange. MWD + Point + Web means unless you can counter web the superior speed is moot. 2 - 3 minmitar jammers mean the pest won't be locking very often (unless it sacrifices precious slots for sensor boosters and ECCM). And while the scorpion is undoubtedly weakly gunned for a battleship it can generate more than sufficient firepower to break any battleship tank given enough time. And given a single jammer can convievably generate a better than 50% chance to jam a Pest with base sensor strength, you're likely to have all the time in the world. Of course, in all reality the scorpion's flexability is it's most damning feature. It can do most anything but it's generally pretty bad at most everything in comparision with other ships and it could only shine in situations where the scorpion pilot possesses an unreasonable level of knowledge about the engagement before it begins.
Siddy Minmatar Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.11.17 08:27:00 - [103] Originally by: Jin Entres Yakov, the minmatar sensor strength type is LADAR. Might wanna change your setup. Originally by: MigG176 Edited by: MigG176 on 16/11/2008 01:10:23 Interesting, Most chars are from other races that i doubt has the skills for the tempest. Specially with them SPs, if training both or more. My main have 39,903,061 sp only in mini ship skills and combat and is quite successful. Since when has the race of a character determined the ships they fly? And argument from authority isn't going to fly here. No one's personal success (or lack thereof), no matter how epic, means diddly squat when it comes to balance. With a better ship, it is easier to achieve success. The two most important criteria by which any close range battleship is judged are 1. its ability to withstand damage and 2. its ability to deal damage. In addition to these primary functions, battleships may have secondary functions such as limited electronic or capacitor warfare. Excellence in secondary functions may make up for small shortcomings in primary functions, but never replace them unless the ship is dedicated to that job (scorpion, nos domi). The Tempest is a ship with increased ability to perform secondary functions: it has an extra utility hislot compared to Megathron and Armageddon (the competing close range turret battleships of other races; note however that Raven has 2 utility hislots aswell). It also has 5 midslots, which enables limited use of EW/anti-EW or improved tackling. For these advantages, the Tempest gives up tanking ability (only 6 lows), damage (lower base damage than all the other weapon systems) and range* (least damage of all weapon types within scrambling distance). * Although it should be noted that unlike blasters, autocannons can hit beyond 30km, although their damage at that range is appalling, increasingly so through falloff progression while pulses reach 98% of their range with more than triple the damage up to (at least) 45 km. And javelin torps reach pretty far, too. And blasters get more tracking (esp with Mega's bonus) The price it pays for what it gets is not balanced. It loses much more than it gains. That is the problem with Tempest. The ratio needs to be adjusted. One solution that could be considered is improving the optimal range on autocannon close range ammunition, reducing the amount of penalty they take in the way of falloff within the key operational range that is roughly scrambling (or disrupting to be more accurate) distance aswell as possibly increasing the base damage on ammo (and unnerfing Hail?). Adding another turret hardpoint could also be part of a good solution (for example because the tradeoff would be one less utility hislot and because it would make the Tempest a better sniper than Maelstrom and because it wouldn't force anyone to fit the 7th turret who likes the current 6+2). This! Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
NightmareX D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.11.17 14:24:00 - [104] Anyways, i'm not the uber l33t kid who always are going for the best ships all the time. I'll use the ship that is very FUN to fly / use. And the Tempest is a very fun ship to fly / use for me because it have so many ways of fitting the ship etc. And it have good damage to. Not the best damages, but still good.
Siddy Minmatar Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.11.18 16:32:00 - [105] Originally by: NightmareX Edited by: NightmareX on 17/11/2008 15:31:23 Anyways, i'm not the uber l33t kid who always are going for the "best" ships all the time. Because there isn't anything called the best ship in EVE. Calling ships for the best ships is something newbs are doing. I'll use the ship that is very FUN to fly / use. And the Tempest is a very fun ship to fly / use for me because it have so many ways of fitting the ship etc. And it have good damage to. Not the best damages, but still good. Flying fail ship is not fun. Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Rexthor Hammerfists Rage of Inferno	Posted - 2008.11.18 17:11:00 - [106] Originally by: Siddy Flying fail ship is not fun. Neither is flying the FOTM ship guaranteed awesomeness, as most falcon pilots can tell you ;) I have a char near to maxed out with amarr skills that has trained minm bs5 a week ago and intend to switch to minm bs simply because of the fun factor that i had before i sold a minm char 2 years ago. I agree that autocannons need a boost when compared with other races closerange guns tho, lots of good points have been brought up and ccp eventually gets around doing that im sure. - Boosters and PirateProfessions
Vrabac Zawa's Fan Club	Posted - 2008.11.18 18:03:00 - [107] Originally by: NightmareX Edited by: NightmareX on 17/11/2008 15:31:23 Anyways, i'm not the uber l33t kid who always are going for the "best" ships all the time. Because there isn't anything called the best ship in EVE. Calling ships for the best ships is something newbs are doing. I'll use the ship that is very FUN to fly / use. And the Tempest is a very fun ship to fly / use for me because it have so many ways of fitting the ship etc. And it have good damage to. Not the best damages, but still good. This argument is of course 100% valid and I really dont think anyone is forbidding you to use the ship you want. Hell I trained this char 100% amarr when amarr were utter crap. And yes I'm almost sad to see they are pretty much best race now. But it still doesn't make the ship good. Also all of this 800-900 dps talk is pretty funny when we take into account we're talking about battleship with 2 damage bonuses.
NightmareX D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.11.18 19:59:00 - [108] Edited by: NightmareX on 18/11/2008 20:00:07 No races are best. END OF STORY. Do you really know how extremely overpowered a Tempest for example would be if the Tempest would do around the same DPS as a Mega or a Geddon when the Tempest can Dual Heavy Neut on top of that + have no cap usage from the guns?. There is a clear logic behind it why a Tempest with Autocannons is not doing as much DPS as Blasters Mega's and Pulse Geddon's. I hope you understand now. Check out my new flash web page 'Alpha Strike'

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