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swg - memories "eve follow the same events?"

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Sovox Amarr Smoke n Burn deadspace society	Posted - 2008.11.15 05:35:00 - [31] Edited by: Sovox on 15/11/2008 06:03:40 Originally by: Judge Ment Originally by: Faife as a person who quit SWG cause of the NGE, you have no idea what you're talking about i said this before, but we're dead literally talking about erasing all skill points across the board and creating 4 classes only. and giving out titans as NPC quest items. to everyone. ... i miss my smuggler PLEASE READ! I think something similar happening to EVE in away. Also there have been major overhaul to the combat system in EVE. And tbh I dont give a frank about SWG. One thing forsure I never played the game You never played the game and yet you compare!!! what is wrong with you??? lol First off im an ex SWG player since launch and played all the way to chapter 6 and let me say this is not anything like the NGE or the Chapter 6 combat downgrade(ala buff wars) I wouldnt compare this to the CU even. If your going to use something SWG to compare try chapter 9 wich some people hated it and some loved it but only a few left and at the end of the day it was actually pretty good after a few patches but some things like the jedi system changed the game forever for better or worse who knows cause the CU happened soon after wich was a whole new system. After playing SWG,WoW,AoC,Vanguard,Guild Wars,Tabula Rasa,War,LineageII,CoH/CoV,Fury,RF online and alot of other free MMO's or names that i just forgot. ive learned one thing there are always a few who think that the Dev team and company of whatever game they play suck!! and every major change nerf or upgrade is the end of the game!! The truth is that i tried EVE a long time ago and i thought it was great but i was way too into SWG at the time and never really got back into EVE and when i played there was mabey only 5k to 9k people online at peak hours, mabey less it was so long ago! and now ive seen a team and company like CCP grow this game to the numbers we have now and the numbers may even grow larger and really thats amazing for a game thats 5 years old most games die EVE gets larger sounds like a sucky dev team and company to me!!:) Sure there are changes and some are gonna suck but thats an MMO if you cant deal they are selling X box 360's for $199.00 and the games will never change on you. compared to the crap ive been through with SWG and SOE, EVE and CCP are pretty damn good!!!! And i guess ive been in EVE full time for almost a year and half now and let me say this, being a bitter Vet is your own fault by thinking your loyalty meant something... welcome to real world sunshine we are all just 15 bucks and month to them.. i know this for fact im 2 time unlocked Jedi one Pre 9 one post 9 and almost a 3rd during the CU in SWG had 3 accounts loaded with toons with the best gear maxed.SOE could care less about us Vets And it was a lesson i learned about MMO's and really who cares there either fun to play or i dont pay end of story... TBH i could care less if CCP and EVE went bye bye in the morning tbh sure i like the game alot but ITS JUST A GAME!! All CCP is trying to do is make the game fun so theres gonna be alot of changes as this is all that an MMO really does some will be the suck and some will be good but not everyone is gonna like it. and not everyone is gonna hate it either. but those who cant take it anymore you can contract me all your stuffz :) Thank you in advance
Epegi Givo Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2008.11.15 05:59:00 - [32] The only way EVE would go the path of SWG is by following a few courses. 1. TOTALLY ignore the playerbase on major decisions. if there is a huge revamp of the combat system, it can be allowed, but you have to make sure that every player knows about it and that they have a say in how it gets put in. 7/8s of the players opposed the CU,a dn when the NGE were pushed 7/8 of the remaining players opposed it. Whent he changes were pushed TONS of accounts were cancelled, and SOE still didn't get the hint and roll back. Now SWG is dead, because they decided to ignore the playerbase entirely. 2. Have content based around copyrighted material so they will need a license to keep the game running. A lot of the changed put in SWG were there because Lucasarts said that the changes had to be put in place. I can't confirm this, but this is a rumor I heard. Good thing is, EVE is all made up by CCP, no licensing needed beyond he basic level.
Dynamite Dan PAX Interstellar Services	Posted - 2008.11.15 09:22:00 - [33] Originally by: Sovox ......Story Wow !! Did I write that or did you ! I've been through and remember it all the same as you. As far as this new update goes ..... meh .... I'm mostly Amarr skilled anyhow. If CCP reset the Eve Online universe in the morning I wouldn't skip a beat and would keep on playing my little spaceship game.
Disteeler Moritso Technologies	Posted - 2008.11.15 10:00:00 - [34] OP has not a F**** clue what SWG-NGE is.
MenanceWhite Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2008.11.15 10:16:00 - [35] Edited by: MenanceWhite on 15/11/2008 10:23:21 No Judge Ment. Leave. The min IQ requirement for missiles just rose with the recent patch, so it's defenetly not helping newbies. Want to hear what my opinion is? That you are butthurt over the nerf and just made a whine thread over the forums starting with no real argument, content or whatsoever. Delicious tears caldari guy, you brought your own nerf with all the nanowhine. I don't see any major UI or gameplay "overhaul". Just because you can't f1-8 afk with your missiles does'nt mean a "major combat overhaul". EON lost a few hundred semi inactive accounts with recent events. SWG instantly lost more than 1/3 of its playerbase. Give up trying to stir up excretion, because most people with an IQ that exceeds 2 digits knows that forumsprostitutes(right, the complaining ones) only make up a minor portion of the overall playerbase.
Doctor Penguin Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.11.15 10:33:00 - [36] Edited by: Doctor Penguin on 15/11/2008 10:33:54 Massive changes to MMORPGs don't often kill them off. RuneScape removed their ENTIRE PvP content to kill off Real World Traders once and for all. People emoragequit for about a week then came back. That was a fun week though. RS was much quieter than normal, so less competition for stuff to kill! ________________________________________________
Calranthe	Posted - 2008.11.15 10:43:00 - [37] Like i've said people are going to haveto actually earn a kill now :)
Ga'len Neo Spartans	Posted - 2008.11.15 11:28:00 - [38] Originally by: Judge Ment So Star Wars Galaxy died because the devs change the game mechanics to help the beginners out. I think something similar happening to EVE in away. So what your guess? Just my opinion BTW Tantrum Rise "wonderful name" I had a great response to your post, but I hit the character limit. So, read it here: Response http://www.eve-druid.com
Khorian Gallente Omega Fleet Enterprises	Posted - 2008.11.15 12:08:00 - [39] Originally by: Judge Ment So Star Wars Galaxy died because the devs change the game mechanics to help the beginners out. I think something similar happening to EVE in away. So what your guess? Just my opinion BTW Tantrum Rise "wonderful name" No
Sheriff Jones Amarr Clinical Experiment	Posted - 2008.11.15 12:35:00 - [40] I'm showing my interest in the matter by posting the following: My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.

Roy Batty68 Caldari Immortal Dead	Posted - 2008.11.15 15:16:00 - [41] Kiss a wookie Kick a droid Fly the Falcon Through an Asteroid Till the princess is annooooooyed
Judge Ment Zero Gravity Inc Vanguard.	Posted - 2008.11.15 15:17:00 - [42] Holy cow batman "Did some people skip grade school?" Judge Ment: Agree I only heard about SWG Lets take this from the TOP So Star Wars Galaxy died because the devs change the game mechanics to help the beginners out. I think something similar happening to EVE in away. So what your guess? a.) devs change the game mechanics: whatever change they did to make people leave the game ( who cares really ) they failed! b.) CCP = Changing the combat system ( Lots of people angry ) People dislike the change ( Sure changes make people leave ) So Star Wars Galaxy died because the devs change the game mechanics to help the beginners out. I think something similar happening to EVE in away. So what your guess? Keyword: Similar Reasons: Change in combat system Results: People leaving the game So Star Wars Galaxy died because the devs change the game mechanics to help the beginners out. I think something similar happening to EVE in away. So what your guess? ------------------------------------------------------ I WAS NOT LOOKING FOR A DEBATE ABOUT NGE SYSTEM FOR SWG Just showing how companies fail because of changes! later
Niccolado Starwalker Shadow Templars	Posted - 2008.11.15 15:24:00 - [43] Originally by: Judge Ment Holy cow batman "Did some people skip grade school?" Judge Ment: Agree I only heard about SWG Lets take this from the TOP So Star Wars Galaxy died because the devs change the game mechanics to help the beginners out. I think something similar happening to EVE in away. So what your guess? a.) devs change the game mechanics: whatever change they did to make people leave the game ( who cares really ) they failed! b.) CCP = Changing the combat system ( Lots of people angry ) People dislike the change ( Sure changes make people leave ) So Star Wars Galaxy died because the devs change the game mechanics to help the beginners out. I think something similar happening to EVE in away. So what your guess? Keyword: Similar Reasons: Change in combat system Results: People leaving the game So Star Wars Galaxy died because the devs change the game mechanics to help the beginners out. I think something similar happening to EVE in away. So what your guess? ------------------------------------------------------ I WAS NOT LOOKING FOR A DEBATE ABOUT NGE SYSTEM FOR SWG Just showing how companies fail because of changes! later SWG did not just die because they changed the game mechanics! SWG died because they changed the very foundation the game was created upon! I am sorry, but a few tweaks here and there does not mean you suddenly can start drawing lines and parallels between these games!
Caiman Graystock Comrades in Construction Anarchy.	Posted - 2008.11.15 15:28:00 - [44] EVE would only be comparable to NGE if CCP let everyone get a Titan when they sign up.
baltec1 R.U.S.T. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.11.15 15:33:00 - [45] Edited by: baltec1 on 15/11/2008 15:34:13 This is nothing like the NGE. The only way it can compare to the NGE is if CCP wiped out the crafting system and made everything loot based, destroy mining, make everything stupidly fast, remove 2/3 of the ships from the game, Give everyone a titan in a month of playing, Increase lag to the point where its unplayable with 20 people in the same area and to finish it all off remove years worth of work everyone put into their char. Long live the pikeman/swordsman/doc combo
Judge Ment Zero Gravity Inc Vanguard.	Posted - 2008.11.15 15:37:00 - [46] Drama Tantrum Rise ------------------------------------- We judge others by actions We judge ourselves by intentions.
Janu Hull Caldari Terra Incognita Vanguard.	Posted - 2008.11.15 16:11:00 - [47] Edited by: Janu Hull on 15/11/2008 16:12:43 In defense of my alliance mate, he is not an idiot, even though he's speaking out of context here. Galaxies died for reasons that had little to do with the game mechanics. Yes, they changed, hideously so, but it was an ancillary effect of the core problem. SOE was ordered by LucasArts to turn the game into something that competed with WoW, could be played easily by people who played in internet cafes, and was less dependent on player manufacturing than it had been (which is to say, utterly, since the Great DOT Nerf). Galaxies died because its creators tried to make it something it was not, and should not have ever been, in a gasping attempt to expand its audience beyond the 125-250k dedicated players that kept it going. They saw the very polished WoW machine reaching millions of subscribers and wanted that kind of RoI. The problem was, they altered the game almost 180 off its current track WITHOUT NOTIFYING THE PLAYERBASE AT ALL. The NGE dropped onto our heads just as the CU system just seemed to finally have found its stride. Creature Handlers went from having received the gift of a lifetime, an item in game that increased their creature control abilities, to utter extinction within a week of the Patch. It would be as if CCP went from giving us the ultimate 30km/s Vagabond or a 15 drone controlling Dominix to literally removing microwarpdrives and drones a week later. Or worse, removed the Gallente and Minmatar RACES from the game altogether.... Not only did SOE not gain the projected "millions" of new subscribers, it utterly and totally betrayed the core subscriber base that kept it chugging along reasonably well. CCP made some hefty changes in Quantum Rise, and over the last couple expansions, but we're not even to the point of a change that equates to the original system to combat upgrade change, to say nothing of the CU -> NGE change. Not even close.
Washell Olivaw	Posted - 2008.11.15 17:32:00 - [48] Originally by: Judge Ment Holy cow batman "Did some people skip grade school?" No. People who've lived through the NGE read your argument like this: "We're allowed to buy fireworks, therefore, we should be allowed to buy atomic bombs." That's the apropriate scale difference between Quantum Rise and the NGE.
Misanth RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE	Posted - 2008.11.15 17:46:00 - [49] Originally by: Judge Ment Also there have been major overhaul to the combat system in EVE. Either you're a troll, a very young EVE-player, or really stupid. If you consider this expansion a "major overhaul" to the combat system, then I wonder what you felt about previous expansions. - Initially having BS-sized weapons on frigates. - No stacking nerf to damage mods. - Warp to zero added to the game. - Changes to NOS. - HP buff. - Multiple changes to speed, the first nano-battleships (hence the very expression "nano", as in recent days it's been more speedmods rather than pure nano tbh), which was changed, then introduction of rigs etc - speed wasn't a "major overhaul" to the combat in itself? - Oh, speaking of rigs; the introduction of rigs. There's been more things that affected combat a great deal, but these things are all either compareable or having alot more impact than the latest expansion. The irony is that this change pretty much pulls EVE back to a situation where we were in 2005-2006, post-stacking nerfs but pre-speedfits. In that sense it's not a "major overhaul", rather "reverting back" to a previous situation. If you view it that way, EVE devs succeeded in having EVE to do exactly what they intended to, but failed to last few years. If you view in that way, the whole speed thing was a "major overhaul" and a failure in game balance. But what do I know, I'm not a troll, or a very young player, or stupid. Maybe you could enlighten me?
Korbann Domini Umbrus R.U.R.	Posted - 2008.11.15 17:54:00 - [50] Yeah um EVE would be exactly like NGE if EVE became twitch based, you could choose to fly BS, cruiser, frig, titan, or mining barge from beginning, if skills were removed and levels within each profession were introduced. Because what devs are doing now is exactly like NGE amirite. Stupid analogy is stupid. SWG failed because devs couldn't fix even the simple things but insisted on adding heaps of new broken content. That, and the fact that pretty much everyone was agaist all of the changes devs made.

Astria Tiphareth Caldari 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2008.11.16 20:28:00 - [51] I can't believe that this got as far as Page 2 and no-one has invoked Tarminic's Law of NGE comparisons, so here it is. We demand proof! ___ My views may not represent those of my corporation, which is why I never get invited to those diplomatic parties... Environmental Effects
Chaos Incarnate Faceless Logistics	Posted - 2008.11.16 20:35:00 - [52] Originally by: Astria Tiphareth I can't believe that this got as far as Page 2 and no-one has invoked Tarminic's Law of NGE comparisons, so here it is. We demand proof! I was going to say this, but i got lazy considering the increasing frequency of the EVE:SWG::QR:NGE threads. Also, I consider it a fruitless venture, as it'll never happen _____________________ My opinions plus a tablespoon of water may be substituted for your own.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2008.11.16 20:49:00 - [53] 1up.com gave eve a 4/10 resently in windows mag they re-reviewed the game and gave it a 9/10. when I started playing eve had 60,000 subs this was 3 years ago. now eve has over 250,000 subs. The game is doing the OPPOSITE of failing.
Cyprus Black Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.11.16 21:08:00 - [54] Edited by: Cyprus Black on 16/11/2008 21:10:14 The OP seems to be misunderstanding what actually happened with the NGE patch. SWG did what they did because they were hemorrhaging over 10k players a month. Plus they didn't have that many players to begin with. The devs needed to do something drastic and they needed to do it fast. Was the NGE patch the right thing to do? It's widely accepted that no, it wasn't. But the point is that SWG needed to do something because their ship was sinking fast. I highly doubt EvE's ship is sinking as fast as SWG's ship did. EDIT I keep seeing this 250k number tossed around, but I don't see it ingame. If there really was 250k active subscribers, wouldn't there be more than 30k players online? Where's the other 220k players?
Mallikan Gallente Plundering Penguins Anarchy.	Posted - 2008.11.16 21:10:00 - [55] I do NOT agree with the OP. In fact, I disagree to an extent that my blood pressure has risen to a noticeable level.
Malcanis RuffRyders Eradication Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.16 21:14:00 - [56] Originally by: Cyprus Black EDIT I keep seeing this 250k number tossed around, but I don't see it ingame. If there really was 250k active subscribers, wouldn't there be more than 30k players online? Where's the other 220k players? Although you may play 168 hours a week, most people only play 16-20, some even less. 20/168*300k=35174, which is about what EvE hits at peak. Factor in all those R&D alts, manufacturing alts, etc., and it looks about right.
Tac Ginaz Gallente Coalition of Nations	Posted - 2008.11.16 21:23:00 - [57] I was in SWG since its beta. Can tell you the game started dying when they added the doctor buffs. Yes, Pre-CU. You see, the problem SOE has, which is something CCP is showing as well, is that they tend to fix big problems with little patches that lower the impact caused by the problem... but they never solve the problem itself. Think using band-aids to stop a gaping shotgun chest wound. Doctor buffs were added because at the time, the huge problem was that armor did not work. Some bug in the code was allowing almost all damage to go through the armor resists and armor mitigation. Melee classes could not function, ranged classes could not rely on the armor. So people died in droves unless they had support from several combat medics. So they added doctor buffs. Gave people insane regeneration rates so that armor was not needed. months passed and Chef buffs were added. months passed and suddenly... the armor bug was fixed. People ran around in full heavy armor with doctor buffs giving the Death Star penile envy. SOE did not remove or tone down doc buffs when they should have. And that was when the game truly died off. Because of the insane doctor buffs people who had the money to keep themselves buffed became unkillable. Because they were unkillable and could spam high damage attacks 24/7 , combat became a series of running around in circles like idiots spamming highest damage attacks and hoping to out-damage the other guy's regeneration buffs. Running around like idiots meant the weapons received a severe accuracy penalty.. new players had zero chance in combat. And, once again, in order to fix a HUGE problem.. SOE used a band-aid. They called it the 'CU'. The CU dumbed down all combat mechanics so that there was no longer a need to use anything but high damage special attacks. crowd control, bleeds, etc became pointless to use. Spam the high damage attack with your doc buffs.. lowered doc buff recipe requirements coupled with a chef buff boost further turned the game into a ******ed quakefest. ...and players began to leave the game in droves. Several servers went empty in less 3 months. So, SOE, once again, opened their band-aid box. the 'NGE'. Known to all gamer circles as the greatest display of stupidity ever shown by any company. If one can say something about SOE, is that they do certainly out-do themselves in the stupidity department. With the NGE, a blatant attempt to turn an MMO into a copy of a very popular and hit-selling CONSOLE 1st person shooter game that was out that year .. SWG gave its final cough and hemmorraged to death. Within a week of the NGE release SOE had to merge server populations into one server and waited for the hordes of console kiddies to join the game and save their profits. They never came. The console game was better. CCP has the same box of band-aids but they aren't as stupid as SOE. At least I hope not. the missile nerf is a band-aid applied the wrong way.
Tarron Sarek Gallente Biotronics Inc. Alternative Realities	Posted - 2008.11.16 22:51:00 - [58] Originally by: Judge Ment So Star Wars Galaxy died because the devs change the game mechanics to help the beginners out. I think something similar happening to EVE in away. So what your guess? Just my opinion BTW Tantrum Rise "wonderful name" You got it all wrong. Reducing the effectiveness of mindless missile spamming in missions isn't exactly what I'd call 'helping beginners'. Especially missiles used to be most beginners first choice, due to the 'no brains factor'. If at all, the recent changes made EVE more challenging, for newbs (missile changes) as well as for risk-averse but rich veterans (speed changes).
Haks'he Lirky Burning Bright Inc.	Posted - 2008.11.16 23:37:00 - [59] the difference is that swg was never even remotely successfull (neither before nor after the changes).


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