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AtheistOfDoom
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Posted - 2008.11.15 05:36:00 -
[1]
(currently) doing Silence the Informant lvl 4(yay drake), and was under fire from 2 elite drone parasites(domis) and my shields went below 50%. My drake is passive and should easily have tanked this at like 60% shields+, so did the drake get a nerf when i wasnt looking or are elite drone parasites epic dmg? 
btw drake setup:
highs:
7x heavy missile launchers
1x tractor beam
mids:
1x invuln field
1x thermal dmg amp
1x em dmg amp
1x kin dmg amp
2x large shield extender IIs
lows:
3x SPR IIs
1x BCS II
12326 shield and 251 second recharge...
61% em, 69% exp, 77% kin, 70% therm resists
it has tanked drone missions like this before but now it seems to be failing so WTF? |
Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2008.11.15 05:54:00 -
[2]
Sig radius should have a bigger effect on your tankability now. I assume you're using three shield rigs? Those and the extenders make the drake a very easy target. I also assume you're just standing still... try moving around because transversal will help you tank, even if it's just a little bit.
But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started. |
Nifan
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Posted - 2008.11.15 06:06:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Wet Ferret
Sig radius should have a bigger effect on your tankability now. I assume you're using three shield rigs? Those and the extenders make the drake a very easy target. I also assume you're just standing still... try moving around because transversal will help you tank, even if it's just a little bit.
this
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.11.15 06:23:00 -
[4]
Elite drone parasite suposedly deal 80 kin DPS and 112 thermal DPS.
So two of them and you had 384 incoming DPS (bit under 42% kin, bit over 58% thermal).
You have a ~123 peak recharge, with relevant resists 77/70, so peak tank 534 kin / 410 thermal.
So, no wonder you got below 50% shield.
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Create a character || Fit a ship || Get some ISK |
ThaDollaGenerale
The Priory
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Posted - 2008.11.15 07:25:00 -
[5]
btw, a passive drake's shield tank is broken until around 30%
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Shereza
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Posted - 2008.11.15 07:37:00 -
[6]
Originally by: ThaDollaGenerale
btw, a passive drake's shield tank is broken until around 30%
Of course as soon as you get to 40% you should start taking out scrambling ships and at 35% you should align on something to get ready to warp out because as soon as you hit 33% things start going downhill in a hurry.
I've never seen a drake build in a level 4 mission able to tank at anywhere between 30% and 35% shield without losing the tank. Sometimes it'll hold long enough to finish the mission but it gets real nerve-wracking when every 30 seconds your shields hit 27%, bounce back to 32, then hit 27% or lower.
Just my personal experience using a drake as a whole-room aggro magnet for over half a year in L4s. |
Zu Tatsu
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Posted - 2008.11.15 07:45:00 -
[7]
Well here is my two cents.
The sig issue is big and has effected plexing for me.
Day before the patch tank was doing good and missle.
Tech II Scorge Pres was doing well :P
Day after tanking double the damage speed was lower and the range on the missles was nerfed.
So in my opinion the drake is getting hit on all sites this is a drake nerf patch for sure.
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Spacelamb
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Posted - 2008.11.15 07:46:00 -
[8]
Drake is going to be less effective in pvp with the changes to missles.
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Lego Maniac
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.11.15 09:38:00 -
[9]
yay for drake nerf!
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Dr EVile
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Posted - 2008.11.15 10:07:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Dr EVile on 15/11/2008 10:09:12
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E Vile
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.11.15 10:09:00 -
[11]
Edited by: E Vile on 15/11/2008 10:13:15
I thought drones damage type was em
I run missions with my nighthawk, and notice fitting an Afterburner for L4 missions I take a GREAT deal less damage since the QR patch. Just make sure to take out anything webbing you first.
Also you might want a 4th Shield Relay for missions your tank seems to fail on. Yes it's a bit less DPS, but what good is DPS when your shield is failing.
Try implants. There is a shield recharge, and max. The 5% help a bit.
Train Skills. Train all shield relating skills. ESPECIALLY Shield Management, Shield Operation, and Tactical Shield Manipulation. Train these to Level 5 ASAP
Use Rigs. I didn't notice any mention of rigs. Use Field Purger Rigs (Shield recharge rate).
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2008.11.15 11:47:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Spacelamb
Drake is going to be more effective in pvp with the changes to missles.
Fixed.  |
Soporo
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.11.15 13:32:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Gypsio III
Originally by: Spacelamb
Drake is going to be more effective in pvp with the changes to missles.
Fixed.
Drake is going to be less effective in pvp with the sig radius nerf, missile nerf, and shield tanking nerf.
Fixed again. |
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2008.11.15 13:37:00 -
[14]
No, the sig/shield issues are inconsequential, and the missile boost is boostiful.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.11.15 14:00:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Gypsio III
No, the sig/shield issues are inconsequential, and the missile boost is boostiful.
think again
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2008.11.15 14:04:00 -
[16]
Akita, that graph is pure EFT-style nonsense showing no regard to realistic game situations.
You haven't even included MWD sig bloom, let alone the inability of a ABing cruiser to avoid getting webbed.  |
Warrio
Southern Cross Incorporated
Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.15 14:56:00 -
[17]
Originally by: AtheistOfDoom
Words
Wait! Are you telling me that a Battlecruiser cannot AFK solo every level 4 mission?
Get the **** out of here!!
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2008.11.15 15:15:00 -
[18]
Active tank maybe
If you think corp is different than a guild or clan you have some insecurity issues.
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DuffmanPeter
Perpetua Umbra
The Last Brigade
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Posted - 2008.11.15 15:24:00 -
[19]
athiest i would get rid of that em hardener. You dont need it for the first room and in the second room just take out the mercenary caracals and you are good. Put another thermal or kinetic hardener. It will help more. The only things that dont do kin and therm seem to be the mercenary wingmen (dramiels) and the mercenary commanders(carcals) so just take out those, manage agro and you will be fine. I have never done it in a drake as I have a raven but it has easy grouping and agro so you should be fine.
Imply or Implode?
There are many Duffman, don't tell the children... It's disillusioning! |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.11.15 16:12:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Gypsio III
Akita, that graph is pure EFT-style nonsense showing no regard to realistic game situations.
You haven't even included MWD sig bloom, let alone the inability of a ABing cruiser to avoid getting webbed. You haven't even plotted where certain ships with plausible fits would fall on that graph, pre- and post-QR.
Linkage
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Create a character || Fit a ship || Get some ISK |
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2008.11.15 16:23:00 -
[21]
Will reply in that thread.
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Chssmius
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.11.15 16:25:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Chssmius on 15/11/2008 16:26:15
EDIT: Started on this before both of you replied again.
Originally by: Gypsio III
Edited by: Gypsio III on 15/11/2008 14:07:05
Akita, that graph is pure EFT-style nonsense showing no regard to realistic game situations.
You haven't even included MWD sig bloom, let alone the inability of a ABing cruiser to avoid getting webbed. You haven't even plotted where certain ships with plausible fits would fall on that graph, pre- and post-QR.
Granted that graph would be much more useful if the input variables were given but some of that can be extrapolated from the curve. It is true that this sort of raw information that doesn't account for combat dynamics doesn't tell the whole story. However, it is very useful to know the tends. It can help you make decisions when fitting, planing and deciding on strategies, and even during combat.
Assuming it is a plot of Stafens formula, it looks like a signature radius of ~125 or ~130(fairly typical for a cruiser). What is less simple to find is any skills or other assumptions that go into the graph, but the curve trend overall shouldn't be affected over much, though it might be pushed up/down or left/right a little by skills.
Normal speeds for a cruiser would be on the order of a few hundred m/s, so suppose 150 m/s to 300 m/s, though there is lots of variation of base speed adjusted for speed mods, skills, etc. Roughly double that for an AB with no sig bloom.
Using the graph given.
At full speed(no AB or MWD) you can expect anywhere between ~5% to ~45% damage reduction on the cruiser.
Using an AB, then anywhere between ~45% to ~65% damage reduction on the cruiser.
Web him once and he is back in the full speed region for damage reduction, twice and you should be doing full damage.
The effect of an MWD's sig bloom would have on the damage would need another graph I think as it would be an over sized battleship(sig of something like ~600 or ~700) traveling at 1.0 km/s to 2.0 km/s typically for most crusiers.
My guess would be that at those speeds the damage taken would be on the order of that taken at full speed without an AB.
A comment on Stafen formula, I find it to be accurate at mid to lower speeds for most signature radii. I say this because it seems to over estimate the damage taken by ships with frigate and destroyer sized signature radii traveling at ~2 km/s and ~5 km/s respectively. Though the overestimation is not generally very significant. The overestimation that I observed at high speeds is a matter of 20% to 50 % which translates to about 4 to 10 DPS which is, I think, within the uncertainty of our information.
Otherwise, it seems to be a very good representation of missile damage closely mimicking real damage observations.
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Dracthera
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Posted - 2008.11.15 16:39:00 -
[23]
Back on topic, my Drake is doing just fine in L4s, so not sure what the issue is. Looks like the OP is running with a bunch of resists that don't apply to specific missions, which is almost never a good idea for L4s. Resists should be tailored for each mission. Why have EM/TH resists for missions where the damage taken is EXP/KIN (i.e. drones)? |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.11.15 20:47:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Chssmius
Granted that graph would be much more useful if the input variables were given
Standard HM (pre QR stats for top line, post QR stats for rest), GMP/TNP at L4, 125m sig target.
Originally by: Dracthera
Back on topic, my Drake is doing just fine in L4s
Since cruiser-sized NPCs barely ever break 250 m/s (and even then, only for a short time), of course you wouldn't notice any significant degradation. Also, tank is only affected against MISSILE using NPCs. OP's issue was with turret NPCs.
Quote:
so not sure what the issue is
Thread derail to Drake-in-PvP, since OP's question was answered in post #4 (my first post in this thread).
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Night Sejol
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Posted - 2008.11.16 05:30:00 -
[25]
Hey I don't do that many level 4s but in lvl 3s my tanking has decreased since QR. Before I could tank in my drake Blockade 3 at about 50% all the time. Now it gets me down to 28%ish... What gives? Does it have anything to do with the fact that they doubled npc damage? they also increased the rate of fire so dps should be the same... But when multiple ships are firing at you, their rof doesn't matter that much. |
DuffmanPeter
Perpetua Umbra
The Last Brigade
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Posted - 2008.11.16 15:16:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Night Sejol
Hey I don't do that many level 4s but in lvl 3s my tanking has decreased since QR. Before I could tank in my drake Blockade 3 at about 50% all the time. Now it gets me down to 28%ish... What gives? Does it have anything to do with the fact that they doubled npc damage? they also increased the rate of fire so dps should be the same... But when multiple ships are firing at you, their rof doesn't matter that much.
They made sig radius more useful so they do more damage to you because of that. Nothing happened with npcs damage. Your sig radius is the problem because of the shield extenders and all that. Also if you cant beat lvl3s in a drake then thats a little scary. lvl 3s are a breeze with the classic setup for a drake. |
YouGotRipped
Ewigkeit
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Posted - 2008.11.16 15:44:00 -
[27]
Edited by: YouGotRipped on 16/11/2008 15:44:50
Poke it and see for yourself. |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.11.16 16:25:00 -
[28]
Originally by: YouGotRipped
Silence the informant L4 is too hard for any Drake setup.
I find it relatively easy in my Drake, and quite trivial in my NH 
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Create a character || Fit a ship || Get some ISK |
YouGotRipped
Ewigkeit
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Posted - 2008.11.16 16:47:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: YouGotRipped
Silence the informant L4 is too hard for any Drake setup.
I find it relatively easy in my Drake, and quite trivial in my NH
Then you're not trying hard enough 
Audits 101 - Mandatory prerequisites for receiving investment |
Lrrp
Minmatar
The Graduates
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.11.16 16:57:00 -
[30]
Drop a hardener and add another large extender T2. And use mission specific hardeners as others have said.
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