| Pages: [1] :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
MJ Siren
   |
Posted - 2008.11.15 14:53:00 -
[1]
That's right sports fans, it appears that frigates are now a more powerful weapons than a BS. Battleships would now appear to require the same escort as a Titan, smaller agile anti-tackler ships etc.
Before anyone says, I know. Drones but that's not the point I'm getting at, say your drones are dead. Most races cant carry many backup drones except Gallente.
Whether it says it or not (I couldn't find it in the notes) lasers have been nerfed. Apart from I just know, if you want evidence. My optimal is now 30km instead of 34km.
Anyway, so here's an example using NPC's. I killed the battleship of course. 3 Frigates can take me on without challenge and render me a dead duck in the water (especially if your Amarr)
You have to use your MWD (AB won't be enough) to reduce the Angular Velocity enough to be able to hit them. While each wasted missed volley kills your cap (thus very bad for Amarr particularly).
With the new speed nerf this is almost impossible with NPC's so with real frigs its going to be even harder. Look at my speed below... That's running an MWD. When you DO hit them (I eventually did as you can see and caught it) they do insta' pop. But real frigs won't, and they will rep much faster.
http://xs233.xs.to/xs233/08466/2008.11.13.22.54.31326.jpg Please visit your user settings to enable images.
I was there for over 10mins... Now given I killed them all in 2mins but that's coincidence as I was there for 10mins previously. On TQ a hostile would have found me easy pickings.
http://xs233.xs.to/xs233/08466/2008.11.13.22.55.09893.jpgPlease visit your user settings to enable images.
I needed my entire cap and 10mins (cycling burst of MWD and guns > wait for cap to recharge > burst of MWD and guns) to counter 3 frigs... I can understand making large ships less effective against smaller (well actually I can't but I'm trying to be civil), but to this point? Ships are made bigger and stronger to be better than their pre-class counterparts. Now if a smaller ships is fully capable of taking down a large ship, then CCP have just reversed the evolutionary cycle of technology. Things now smaller, weaker and faster will now be considered an 'upgrade'.
Thanks for reading lol sorry for the epic text. I didn't mean to let it get so big. |
Xavier Zedicus
Red Sky Morning
|
Posted - 2008.11.15 15:06:00 -
[2]
but can frigate KILL a BS'? no. |
MJ Siren
|
Posted - 2008.11.15 15:10:00 -
[3]
Don't need to. Render you defensless then in comes anything BC or bigger for the kill.
Oh and... http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=umiK-1iIL2s
|
Jason Edwards
|
Posted - 2008.11.15 15:15:00 -
[4]
the reason bs cant hit frigs well is because frigs would be 1 volleyed all the time and thusly newer players would have issue in playing the Rock-paper-Nuclearbomb
BUT I think it should be the reverse also. Small weapons have their damage reduced relative to larger targets also.
9mm gun can never shoot the hull of a naval ship. Hell 50cal bullets cant even damage the hull that well.
As for you're abaddon shooting frigs are close range without a webber on them... you're just silly.
------------------------
To make a megathron from scratch, you must first invent the eve universe. |
Jason Edwards
|
Posted - 2008.11.15 15:16:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Xavier Zedicus
but can frigate KILL a BS'? no.
Sure they can. Easily.
There's loads of vids with interceptors pounding the crap out of battleships and battleships essentially doing nothing. |
eliminator2
Gallente
Fatality.
United Federation of Capsuleers
|
Posted - 2008.11.15 15:30:00 -
[6]
Edited by: eliminator2 on 15/11/2008 15:31:43
the op sucks my abaddon carnt hit frigs unless there stud still even webbin them doesnt worked but i use my drones 5 med 5 light and i only just this week got into a abaddon and i could kill a mega easy but then again they suk now :p but still i can hit 34km with no range mods with infared and named lazers and 44km with radail and 13km with multi
EDIT: quick every1 in the region proviedence set autopilot to KBP7 and he will be held down by frigs QUICK GO NOW!!
|
Cpt Branko
Surge.
|
Posted - 2008.11.15 16:21:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Xavier Zedicus
but can frigate KILL a BS'? no.
Yes. As a rule, ofc it can.
In PVP, you don't fit 10 cap modules and permatank, you know...
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Hyveres
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.11.15 16:49:00 -
[8]
In other words battleship base shieldregen should be quadrupled to balance them against AFs? |
The Djego
Minmatar
merovinger inc
|
Posted - 2008.11.15 17:16:00 -
[9]
Edited by: The Djego on 15/11/2008 17:16:44
Could a Abaddon hit NPC frigs orbitting close with Mega Puls and 2 Trackingcomps(my fitting)? No it could not. Could it hit them with a 90% Web? Barely but simply a wast of time in most cases since Drones did this job(and still do it vs NPCs) faster.
If you canŠt hit them at range(and this was and is still is possible) you need to use the Drones. This has not changed in the Patch.
Only the efficency of the Web got changed and causes now to beeing unable to hit Frigs even with the most Medium Weapons within Web Range in PVP.
Ships where never bigger = better, this is simply wrong, if It would be so I would not see this mutch smaller ships around. Your post does not cover anything that got changed with the Patch(since you not even using a Web).  |
Durzel
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.11.15 18:30:00 -
[10]
Am I the only person who has never lost drones outside of just moments of stupidity? If my drones get aggro I recall them, I don't send them anywhere where they are likely to get aggro before me. I don't understand the statement "say your drones are dead" - if your drones are dead, or you forgot to bring some, then you've failed really and (possibly) deserve to lose your ship.
That said it would make sense if NPC frigates deaggressed (or stopped scramming) after a while if it became obvious they had no hope of killing you so at least you could decide to leave. |
The Djego
Minmatar
merovinger inc
|
Posted - 2008.11.15 18:35:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Durzel
That said it would make sense if NPC frigates deaggressed (or stopped scramming) after a while if it became obvious they had no hope of killing you so at least you could decide to leave.
Well in Belts they despawn after some time and apeer in a new Belt. |
MJ Siren
|
Posted - 2008.11.15 19:52:00 -
[12]
Yeah I said I'm using NPCs for the example which I think worked quite well. If you have never lost drones in PvP then your either lying or only fight complete tools... Or AFKers. |
Grarr Dexx
Amarr
The Cosa Nostra
La Cosa Nostra Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.11.15 20:20:00 -
[13]
"In time for his gang to show up"
Why don't you bring your own gang to rat? Surely it's hardly effective but that's the only way to even the playfield. |
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
|
Posted - 2008.11.15 20:52:00 -
[14]
god frigates should be better. and cruisers should be better than frigates, and BCs should be better than cruisers. And BAttleships should be better than BCs. And frigates should be better than battleships.
HOwever it's not simply rock paper gun tree nuke :P becuase a battleship CAN kill a frigate based on set up. |
BiggestT
Caldari
Space Oddysey
Pupule 'Ohana
|
Posted - 2008.11.16 04:25:00 -
[15]
Originally by: MJ Siren
While each wasted missed volley kills your cap (thus very bad for Amarr particularly).
lol wat
Did i misread or did u say a missile volley will waste your cap?
..capless ftw?
|
BiggestT
Caldari
Space Oddysey
Pupule 'Ohana
|
Posted - 2008.11.16 04:26:00 -
[16]
Originally by: MotherMoon
god frigates should be better. and cruisers should be better than frigates, and BCs should be better than cruisers. And BAttleships should be better than BCs. And frigates should be better than battleships.
HOwever it's not simply rock paper gun tree nuke :P becuase a battleship CAN kill a frigate based on set up.
If a bs has one heavy neut..bye bye frigate. |
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
|
Posted - 2008.11.16 07:09:00 -
[17]
Originally by: BiggestT
Originally by: MotherMoon
god frigates should be better. and cruisers should be better than frigates, and BCs should be better than cruisers. And BAttleships should be better than BCs. And frigates should be better than battleships.
HOwever it's not simply rock paper gun tree nuke :P becuase a battleship CAN kill a frigate based on set up.
If a bs has one heavy neut..bye bye frigate.
exactly, I fail to see how people don't understand this.
|
Kambo
AWE Corporation
Intrepid Crossing
|
Posted - 2008.11.16 09:00:00 -
[18]
What obviosly the creator of this post fails to understand is the basic combat mechanics of this game. Small and fast ships are really hard to hit with big fat slow guns, such being the battleshil sized large weapon systems. Ratting in an abbadon, for that matter in any large turret ship, without a web is plain stupid as his own screenshots display. That is also the very reason why the Paladin and the Kronos get a bonus to webbers, and the golem to target painters. In actual pvp battleships are rearly all alone. Vice versa the best way to tackle a battleship is to do it in a small ship and it has always been that way.
The only thing ppl should complain about is ravens being less effective as mission runers... but that can be solved to (Target painter FTW)
|
narccissa
|
Posted - 2008.11.16 09:00:00 -
[19]
Originally by: MotherMoon
Originally by: BiggestT
Originally by: MotherMoon
god frigates should be better. and cruisers should be better than frigates, and BCs should be better than cruisers. And BAttleships should be better than BCs. And frigates should be better than battleships.
HOwever it's not simply rock paper gun tree nuke :P becuase a battleship CAN kill a frigate based on set up.
If a bs has one heavy neut..bye bye frigate.
exactly, I fail to see how people don't understand this.
except not... afterburner keeps on going, and then there's nos.
owned. lololololol.
Go try on sisi. I was neuted multiple times. With nos could still run my ab and guns. rep was here and there. 24 second cycle time on heavy neuts means you can get by pretty easily.
|
Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
|
Posted - 2008.11.16 10:28:00 -
[20]
Ratting and mission battleships now benefit greatly from dual-web or web/painter.
Laser are, as far as my ships are concerned, unchanged what you are seeing might be the new stacking on locus rigs.
Personal note: Why are you using an Abaddon for ratting, the Armageddon is far superior in belts and significantly cheaper to boot. The 125m3 drone space also helps enormously as you can always have replacement lights available.
|
Jurgen Cartis
Caldari
Interstellar Corporation of Exploration
|
Posted - 2008.11.16 10:33:00 -
[21]
Mega Pulse SHOULD miss unwebbed, unpainted frigates at 5km. You're using a sledgehammer on flies and wondering why it's not working. . .
Frigates have been able to get under the guns of any BS not packing web, neut, drones, missiles, smartbombs, etc. since CCP introduced tracking to guns. It's the only way they survive, pretty much.
Lasers have not been nerfed. Locus rigs are stacknerfed now, but that's all that affected lasers this patch.
-------------------- Originally by: Crumplecorn
I prefer launching bathtubs of antimatter at my opponents over pointing an open DVD player at them, even if the bathtubs do miss a lot. So no.
|
Major Templar
Caldari
DFX Industries
|
Posted - 2008.11.16 10:34:00 -
[22]
If your having issue with Frigates, we are talking NPC here, smartbombs and drones will do you good. I just recently went on a level 3 mission (I finally got to start doing them) and when I was there I did get attacked by some frigates, I hit the larger ships at range with my rails and waited for the frigs to get close enough and popped a smartbomb to damage them pretty bad and then popped out my drones to beat the **** out of them. Not as viable as when your facing down real players but still, NPC is going to be pretty easy for you.
|
MJ Siren
|
Posted - 2008.11.16 13:37:00 -
[23]
Guys that are on about ratting. I used rats for the example! I already said this. I am not going to go and try it out on people am I. Please stop going on about rats lol.
But anyway thanks for the so far civil discussion. That's why I don't post in general discussion, you just get nerds with giant glasses and a cartoon **** collection going omfgnoob cus u fail durrr.
BiggestT yeah you read wrong lol. I said "missed". Volley/salvo same thing, don't get picky. :p
Kambo I know the Raven was screwed over. Caldari are the mission race if there was one, how can people complain they are too good at it? lol. I do understand the mechanics though and see your point.
Would smartbombs work well enough on people? You'd need so many you'd drastically reduce your fire power and I'm sure people will just orbit you way out of range for that if they had any sense.
|
Arturus Vex
Macabre Votum
Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2008.11.16 17:19:00 -
[24]
Originally by: MJ Siren
Would Smartbombs work well enough on people? You'd need so many you'd drastically reduce your fire power and I'm sure people will just orbit you way out of range for that if they had any sense.
Smartbombs would work if they were close enough (Could really ruin a close-orbiting frigate's day, in fact). As would a large neutralizer.
Other than that, target painters, webs, tracking computers, assault missile launchers, all have the possibility to be a very bad day for a frigate. (most battleships can fit at least 15 warrior IIs, also).
Missile ships, were in fact, too good at hitting small targets.
Turret ships have always had this problem of hitting fast moving frigates at close range. It is just that before now, no one tried, because 90% of the ships that you saw in belts were ravens.
Will be interesting to see what happens, in any case.
|
Zhula Guixgrixks
Increasing Success by Lowering Expectations
Vanguard.
|
Posted - 2008.11.17 11:58:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Zhula Guixgrixks on 17/11/2008 11:59:56
You have to make a choice. Either your fitting is a dedicated anti-small ship one or you going for full DPS against targets of similar or bigger size. If you going for raw DPS you need support, very simple. If you going for "support-fitting" , small ships will die horribly. Btw. Eve is a massive multiplayer game, so solo "gangs" are supposed to be vulnerable.
|
Cpt Branko
Surge.
|
Posted - 2008.11.17 12:17:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 17/11/2008 12:18:34
Originally by: Zhula Guixgrixks
Edited by: Zhula Guixgrixks on 17/11/2008 11:59:56
You have to make a choice. Either your fitting is a dedicated anti-small ship one or you going for full DPS against targets of similar or bigger size. If you going for raw DPS you need support, very simple. If you going for "support-fitting" , small ships will die horribly. Btw. Eve is a massive multiplayer game, so solo "gangs" are supposed to be vulnerable.
Erm. You were already vulnerable to gangs pre-QR. To say anything else is madness... the best way to die as a soloer was to fight a gang pre-QR (ofc, you actually had the versatility, particularly in BC hulls, to fight them).
Post-QR, the solo mechanics have been greatly changed, as it's very hard/impossible to get fits which deal with both same size and smaller size targets well (with ungimped fits) bar a few specific ships - this applies not only to BS, but to BCs, HACs, T1 cruisers and so on.
In gang, ofc, the classic setups still work just as well and nothing changes for blobbers at all. Except the fact you want to have a few people fitting scramblers.
The 'massively multiplayer' thing is laughable.
I propose that people who do not belong to a 1000-man alliance self destruct ships upon undocking, likewise for people undocking without a gang of 10 people minimum. It would promote the 'massively' in MMORPG. I think it's a awesome suggestion to end this stupid 'my solo / small gang is nerfed' business.
|
Zhula Guixgrixks
Increasing Success by Lowering Expectations
Vanguard.
|
Posted - 2008.11.17 13:04:00 -
[27]
Hi Branko , good post
|
| |
|
| Pages: [1] :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |