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Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
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Posted - 2008.11.16 15:54:00 -
[61]
1. Laugh and post 'Adapt or die' in threads were people complain about their mission running 2. Whine to CCP that you can't make 1 billion by pointing an industrial ship 2. ???? 4. Profit!!!
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2008.11.16 15:59:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Washell Olivaw
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Originally by: NoNah How about... loot?
The entire idea that you CAN blow it up anyway, and that you CAN let him go for a cheap chip is half the point imho. That you can ruine your reputation etc.
Ship/module loss: 2bil+, loot recovered: about 70-80m, incl. salvage. It's just not worth that much to blow stuff up when they can pay half of what it's worth and still save a bil or more.
And another pirate ransoms them next week and you get them again in a month and they're out of 3 billion.
Try 200 million next time. It's more than double what you would make in loot and actually likely to be accepted and paid.
LOL. Once someone loses a bil as a penalty for making a (huge) mistake, they're not likely to repeat it very soon. And if they do, that's their own damned fault for being a noob.
Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Death of Virtue is Recruiting
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Krxon Blade
Apogee Group
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Posted - 2008.11.16 16:04:00 -
[63]
Edited by: Krxon Blade on 16/11/2008 16:05:38 My idea:
Add ransom button to convo window. Before ship is poped, start convo with loosing side. If convo is accepted, press ransom button and add wanted ISK amount. If loosing player pays, he looses all locks on his ships and his ship autowarps into random direction.
To avoid cheats, ransoming wouldn't work from convo with member in same corp, gang, fleet or aliance.
CCP could also add "Ransom Honor" counter in players BIO: If pirate press Ransom button, timer is activated. If ransom is paid, loosing side gets "Aggression free" time from Pirate player, like 30 minutes or so. If same Pirate pops same player within that time he gets -1 "Ransom honor" point, if not he gets +1. By looking in Pirate players bio player could see if Ransom Honor number is positive or negative and decide to pay ransom or not.
Thoughts?
-- Eve battle simulator EVE character creator Eve offline game |
Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2008.11.16 16:36:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Krxon Blade Edited by: Krxon Blade on 16/11/2008 16:05:38 My idea:
Add ransom button to convo window. Before ship is poped, start convo with loosing side. If convo is accepted, press ransom button and add wanted ISK amount. If loosing player pays, he looses all locks on his ships and his ship autowarps into random direction.
To avoid cheats, ransoming wouldn't work from convo with member in same corp, gang, fleet or aliance.
CCP could also add "Ransom Honor" counter in players BIO: If pirate press Ransom button, timer is activated. If ransom is paid, loosing side gets "Aggression free" time from Pirate player, like 30 minutes or so. If same Pirate pops same player within that time he gets -1 "Ransom honor" point, if not he gets +1. By looking in Pirate players bio player could see if Ransom Honor number is positive or negative and decide to pay ransom or not.
Thoughts?
I really like it, but what's to stop a player that is friendly to the target from scrambling him in the middle of a fight, he offers ransom for 1 ISK and then he pays, and gets away free? LOL.
MEH. TBH, I'm sorry I brought it up. I just think that it would be nice to have some sort of accredited verifiable point system or something that would establish a ransom history for pirates.
Frankly, if I could just get a tool that would allow me to scan people's pods for implants, that would just be spectacular. I think they should add the functionality to the ship scanner.
Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Death of Virtue is Recruiting
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An Anarchyyt
Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.11.16 16:39:00 -
[65]
Do you even think before you make threads anymore? Or is it just like, "OH MY SOMETHING HAPPENED IN EVE! I have to go make a thread now!!!!!!"
And then you must make sure to keep up your utterly inane posting style.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
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Mezikk
Earned In Blood
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Posted - 2008.11.16 16:41:00 -
[66]
Edited by: Mezikk on 16/11/2008 16:44:03 agreed, some kind of mechanic that shows u honour ransoms wud be good
add it with the bounty mechanic where if a player gets a bounty, the ppl adding it get to choose who they want to hire for kill or somethin
the fake pirates that take *ransoms then kill ruin it for real ones =/
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Drak Manson
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.11.16 17:56:00 -
[67]
When on a gate camp and you have a ship into structure why can't you have the option fo board the ship and take it away to be repaired rather than just destroy it. |
Death C1
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Posted - 2008.11.16 18:40:00 -
[68]
Edited by: Death C1 on 16/11/2008 18:42:35 Bellum, u, me, and half of eve know ur right about ransoms, u think that ccp realy care about piracy in eve?
A few year ago, eve was ment to be a cold hearted evil place where anything can happen (at a cost), now its all about missions, and takeing over 0.0 space for fleet lag battles, nothing will happen about the real problems eve has, no-one cares anymore.
Edit: b4 the "post with ur main", i gave him away along with both other main alt's http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=924936
Happy hunting m8, and i hope u never feel like i do atm..... Peace Bellum m8 |
Sergeant Spot
Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.11.16 19:52:00 -
[69]
Edited by: Sergeant Spot on 16/11/2008 19:53:33 Any ransom function would need to be 100% reliable for getting the ransomee away alive, even if the ransoming pirate has friends that he is formally at war with, waiting to make the kill.
I doubt it will possible to make such a function.
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Jimer Lins
Gallente Noir.
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Posted - 2008.11.16 19:59:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus I've just blown up yet another cap ship (Rorq this time), and this has to be the 5th in a ROW to not pay ransom. When I ask why they don't all I get is 'you'd just blow me up anyway'.
Come ON, us pirates need *something* to make ISK with.
Well, if pirates would clean up their rep for not honoring ransoms by actually nuking the "lolpwnd" nitwits that will happily take a ransom, pop the ship anyway, then laugh about it on C&P...
As it stands, it's pretty hard to blame anyone for making the assumption that the ship is lost and there's no point in suffering even MORE losses.
An in-game mechanic of some kind would help, but the real problem is that too many "pirates" don't honor them and suffer little to no consequnce for ****ing in everyone else's pond.
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Astria Tiphareth
Caldari 24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.11.16 20:06:00 -
[71]
Edited by: Astria Tiphareth on 16/11/2008 20:12:37 Part of the problem is lack of trust/reputation and the knowledge of it on the part of the victim. Another part is that ransoming perhaps shouldn't entirely be an automated cold process - it seems somewhat anti-sandbox to prevent a ransom scam, but equally it should be obvious to later victims by some means if someone does this a lot...
One idea I heard floated in Features & Suggestions was a ransom mail, like a killmail but about a ransom paid. Now a trustworthy pirate group could have combined ransom & killboard and effectively be able to say 'here's all the people we shot, here's all the people who paid us - see, better to pay us...'.
Just an idea in an attempt to perhaps promote a better one...
Edit: Of course the irony is not lost on me that perhaps the best solution is a referral one where the ex-victims can be asked by the current victim 'did they honour the ransom?' and respond yes, but given the adversarial nature of piracy vs victim, I don't exactly see referrals working reliably.. |
Janu Hull
Caldari Terra Incognita Vanguard.
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Posted - 2008.11.16 20:17:00 -
[72]
Edited by: Janu Hull on 16/11/2008 20:18:12 Option:
When a player agrees to a ransom, the fleet of the player who created the ransom contract could get flagged in some way that prevents them from attacking the ransomed target for a specific period after the contract is enabled. Something like aggression timers in reverse.
Alternatively, that player is flagged for protection from the entire corporation/alliance the ransomer, and every member of his fleet at the time of the contract, belonged to for a specific period. Keeps the pirate from doing an end run with members of his corp on another gate. In the event of an emergency, my ego may be used as a floatation device.
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DWEr
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Posted - 2008.11.16 20:26:00 -
[73]
i lost a rorqual afew months back on my indy main. the reason i lost it or rather choose to loose it was because i didnt want to pay the ransom. they asked me for 2bill isk ransom. why should i bother? i could build myself a new rorqual for alot less than that.
many many times i have come accross idiot pirates who ransom you for the entire value of your ship. if they really want legit and acceptable ransoms then perhaps 40% total value of ships would be more acceptable. also who is to say that you the pirate get paid and billy bob who is in ur fleet decides he didnt get the isk so will shoot you anyways. its a dog eat dog world.
soooo all in all, dont fly ships you cant afford to loose, or dont fly them into hostile space without knowing that it could all end up in tears.
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Washell Olivaw
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Posted - 2008.11.16 23:44:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus LOL. Once someone loses a bil as a penalty for making a (huge) mistake, they're not likely to repeat it very soon. And if they do, that's their own damned fault for being a noob.
Exactly. I've thought about doing things in low-sec and including ransoms as the cost of doing business. But with people demanding 50% or more of the value of the ship or amounts that equal a weeks income it's pointless.
If pirates just doubled the amount they expect to loot and you have the occasional pirate blowing up your (insured) T1 ship it would be livable for both sides. |
Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2008.11.16 23:51:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Washell Olivaw
Originally by: Bellum Eternus LOL. Once someone loses a bil as a penalty for making a (huge) mistake, they're not likely to repeat it very soon. And if they do, that's their own damned fault for being a noob.
Exactly. I've thought about doing things in low-sec and including ransoms as the cost of doing business. But with people demanding 50% or more of the value of the ship or amounts that equal a weeks income it's pointless.
If pirates just doubled the amount they expect to loot and you have the occasional pirate blowing up your (insured) T1 ship it would be livable for both sides.
The thing is, that was a *capital* ship. Not some crap T1 fit mission running BS. I ask for very reasonable ransom amounts. I'm not going to ask for a billion ISK for a Thanatos for instance. Maybe 400-500m. But the Rorqual is worth upwards of 1.65b, just by itself, without fittings.
Anyway, all this debate about ransoms and all this is just lame anyway. Like I said, I'm sorry I brought it up. I find that pirates usually pay ransoms as they understand the value of doing so, and carebears don't do it, no matter how reasonable it is, because they see it as promoting piracy. They'll just cut off their nose to spite their face so to speak.
I guess what I'm really asking for is more smart players in Eve that have a reasonable response to being ransomed. LOL. Obviously that's never going to happen.
Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Death of Virtue is Recruiting
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Washell Olivaw
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Posted - 2008.11.17 00:40:00 -
[76]
Edited by: Washell Olivaw on 17/11/2008 00:40:41
Originally by: Bellum Eternus The thing is, that was a *capital* ship.
And my point is that that's the wrong way to look at it. If you expect to loot 100 million. Ransom for 200. That's 100 million bonus, no questions asked. Ask for a billion and you're just wasting your and their time.
As someone else pointed out: No payment: lose 2 billion. Your ransom: potentially lose 3 billion. My ransom: potentially lose 2.2 billion.
If you have a 10% chance of winning 10 million, but had to pay 5 million for the lottery ticket. Would you play?
If you have 0.0000001% chance of winning 10 million, but had to pay $5. Would you play?
I have paid ransoms, but fully expect to be ganked anyway. Therefore, I would never pay the 3 billion one, increasing my potential loss by that much isn't worth the risk. |
Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2008.11.17 00:48:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Washell Olivaw Edited by: Washell Olivaw on 17/11/2008 00:40:41
Originally by: Bellum Eternus The thing is, that was a *capital* ship.
And my point is that that's the wrong way to look at it. If you expect to loot 100 million. Ransom for 200. That's 100 million bonus, no questions asked. Ask for a billion and you're just wasting your and their time.
As someone else pointed out: No payment: lose 2 billion. Your ransom: potentially lose 3 billion. My ransom: potentially lose 2.2 billion.
If you have a 10% chance of winning 10 million, but had to pay 5 million for the lottery ticket. Would you play?
If you have 0.0000001% chance of winning 10 million, but had to pay $5. Would you play?
I have paid ransoms, but fully expect to be ganked anyway. Therefore, I would never pay the 3 billion one, increasing my potential loss by that much isn't worth the risk.
Ah, ok. I understand where you're coming from now.
I guess that's why us pirates end up destroying so many ships. We'd rather inflict 2bil+ in damage than make a paltry 100-200m of a cap ship. |
Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2008.11.17 00:56:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus Anyway, all this debate about ransoms and all this is just lame anyway. Like I said, I'm sorry I brought it up.
I'm down with this.
Originally by: Bellum Eternus I guess what I'm really asking for is more smart players in Eve that have a reasonable response to being ransomed. LOL. Obviously that's never going to happen.
This reminds me of the manufacturers who pull their hair out because people who think mined minerals are free sell their products at cost or below. Wanting smarter players in EVE is nice, but lol it won't happen. |
Darkeen
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.11.17 01:16:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus I've just blown up yet another cap ship (Rorq this time), and this has to be the 5th in a ROW to not pay ransom. When I ask why they don't all I get is 'you'd just blow me up anyway'.
Come ON, us pirates need *something* to make ISK with.
HAHA!
You LOOSE!
ROFLMAO! |
DrAtomic
Atomic Heroes Arcane Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.17 01:35:00 -
[80]
The mechanic is here allready, it's called freeform contracts. Use them. - - -
Originally by: CCP Wrangler If you can understand our goal, disagree with our solution and offer a solution that is equal or better your opinion has a better chance of being heard...
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Cyprus Black
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.11.17 01:35:00 -
[81]
I've got insurance. I've got my clone up to date. Plus the last time I payed a ransom, the pirate killed me anyways.
So no, it's in our best interest not to pay. Especially when there's a high probability the pirate will still kill us afterwards. ___________________________________________ You get the cool. Get the cool shoeshine. |
Mika Meroko
Minmatar Crayon Posting Inc
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Posted - 2008.11.17 01:42:00 -
[82]
nothing stops buddy number 1,2,3,4,5 from popping you...
you can have the mechanic, but guess what?
if they dont trust you or people nearby.
they wont pay...
offer them escort to the nearest gate to highsec...
you be surpised how often they pay if you do.. XD...
Originally by: CCP Atropos I pod people because there's money to be made in selling tears.
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Z'Doc
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.11.17 01:59:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus I guess that's why us pirates end up destroying so many ships. We'd rather inflict 2bil+ in damage than make a paltry 100-200m of a cap ship.
You're over asking and therefor loosing a lot of money yourself, if you'd asked for 400 mil for each of the 5 rorquals 4 of them would have paid netting you 1.6 bil. Now you are just left with 280 mil in loot and a forum post whining about it. Key to ransoming is to find out figures that are reasonable.
Real pirates honor their ransoms and dont care for the kills. 95% of the pirates do honor their ransoms. Sometimes ransoms go off though due to fire being stopped too late etc. Most pirates do repay the ransom in that case but thats more a case of 50/50.
Our philosofy when pirating (which we do seldomly tbh) is pay or be podded, the longer a target drags the higher the price, if he/she says no and then yes when we have his pod the price is at it's highest, if they pay right away they'll get a bargain. Once paid we'll rep the target if we carry reps and/or escort/protect him till he left system. Honor, try it, it works.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2008.11.17 02:09:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Krxon Blade Edited by: Krxon Blade on 16/11/2008 16:05:38 My idea:
Add ransom button to convo window. Before ship is poped, start convo with loosing side. If convo is accepted, press ransom button and add wanted ISK amount. If loosing player pays, he looses all locks on his ships and his ship autowarps into random direction.
To avoid cheats, ransoming wouldn't work from convo with member in same corp, gang, fleet or aliance.
CCP could also add "Ransom Honor" counter in players BIO: If pirate press Ransom button, timer is activated. If ransom is paid, loosing side gets "Aggression free" time from Pirate player, like 30 minutes or so. If same Pirate pops same player within that time he gets -1 "Ransom honor" point, if not he gets +1. By looking in Pirate players bio player could see if Ransom Honor number is positive or negative and decide to pay ransom or not.
Thoughts?
sorry but there is no reason you should lose lock.
HOwever there is no reason the player kill shouldn't be able to take his money back if killed. |
Cyprus Black
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.11.17 02:12:00 -
[85]
If the OP gets everything he suggests, I can already see the abuse step in. Dual pirating. The victim pays up on the ransom and the other pirate kills him.
Don't pretend like it wouldn't happen. |
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2008.11.17 02:50:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Cyprus Black If the OP gets everything he suggests, I can already see the abuse step in. Dual pirating. The victim pays up on the ransom and the other pirate kills him.
Don't pretend like it wouldn't happen.
no no, the idea is that you pay up through the bank, there is a delay, if you ship dies before you dock the ransom money goes back to your account.
wich I guess means you could have a friend pod you or kill you before you docked to pull back the ransom money if you wanted too.
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Thudin
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Posted - 2008.11.17 11:42:00 -
[87]
Pirates are such good roleplayers.
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Nexus Kinnon
Armada.
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Posted - 2008.11.17 12:30:00 -
[88]
Originally by: DrAtomic The mechanic is here allready, it's called freeform contracts. Use them.
troll post? |
DrAtomic
Atomic Heroes Arcane Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.17 12:38:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Nexus Kinnon
Originally by: DrAtomic The mechanic is here allready, it's called freeform contracts. Use them.
troll post?
Not really. The mechanic is there however it's too slow and therefor impractical in it's use but thats an UI/usability issue. - - -
Originally by: CCP Wrangler If you can understand our goal, disagree with our solution and offer a solution that is equal or better your opinion has a better chance of being heard...
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.11.17 12:45:00 -
[90]
Only way to do it is to build yourself a reputation that you will let people go..
Wyvern & Chimera fitting flowchart |
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