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Where did the wrecking hits go? (PvE Related)

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KhamEee Kazee	Posted - 2008.11.16 16:30:00 - [1] Run missions alot in Kronos/Nightmare, and I've noticed after the patch i haven't made one single wrecking hit. Not one, and excellent hits went from often to very rare. Running Shadow Serpentis tracking comp and tracking script on the Kronos, completely maxed out support gunnery skills and T2 rails. 10.000+ hits now and not a single wrecking hit, and only about 3-4 excellent hits pr. mission, and they ONLY occur on slow battleships or structures. Same with the Nightmare, got awesome tracking on it, and used to do loads of excellent and wrecking hits, but it's the same as the Kronos after QR the wrecking hits have completely disappeared for me, and as said I rarely see excellent hits.
Imaos	Posted - 2008.11.16 16:39:00 - [2] Originally by: KhamEee Kazee Run missions alot in Kronos/Nightmare, and I've noticed after the patch i haven't made one single wrecking hit. Not one, and excellent hits went from often to very rare. Running Shadow Serpentis tracking comp and tracking script on the Kronos, completely maxed out support gunnery skills and T2 rails. 10.000+ hits now and not a single wrecking hit, and only about 3-4 excellent hits pr. mission, and they ONLY occur on slow battleships or structures. Same with the Nightmare, got awesome tracking on it, and used to do loads of excellent and wrecking hits, but it's the same as the Kronos after QR the wrecking hits have completely disappeared for me, and as said I rarely see excellent hits. You grouped your weapons, right? That hides the different hit qualities to some extent. Imaos ------------------------------------------ Originally by: NoNah My friend, this is EVE, as it's a space oriented game, they couldn't have trolls. We have Caldari.
Merak Thrawn	Posted - 2008.11.16 18:03:00 - [3] Edited by: Merak Thrawn on 16/11/2008 18:04:08
KhamEee Kazee	Posted - 2008.11.16 18:04:00 - [4] Edited by: KhamEee Kazee on 16/11/2008 18:05:52 Grouping weapons in Nightmare and Kronos? No they're not grouped. Grouping weapons in Kronos and Nightmare, specially in the Nightmare is a complete waste and total overkill. No, not grouped.
Jennz	Posted - 2008.11.16 18:11:00 - [5] Now that you mention it I've not noticed a single wrecking hit since QR either (Nightmare).
Mr Friendly The Lost and The Damned	Posted - 2008.11.16 18:44:00 - [6] Interesting. I haven't been paying attention, but CCP was fiddling with the hit formula to eliminate Wrecking hits outside of normal falloff+optimal range... perhaps they screwed up and removed them altogether? Have you bugreported it (if you're sure you've not gotten any)?
KhamEee Kazee	Posted - 2008.11.16 18:50:00 - [7] I'm 100% sure I haven't gotten a single wrecking hit, and flying the Kronos with a 36km optimal / 28km falloff (with skills). I always, if possible ofc, let targets get within 40km so I can use the tractor beams without moving. 85% of my Targets are between 30-39km away which is pretty much right in my optimal range with antimatter.
KhamEee Kazee	Posted - 2008.11.16 19:15:00 - [8] Made a bug report about it, I'm absolutely, 100% sure I haven't had a single wrecking hit in QR yet. Would appreciate feedback, and if more would take notice and check their logs for wrecking hits.
Xiaodown coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.11.16 19:34:00 - [9] You know, I thought it was wierd, but that maybe it was just random chance. I was in a munin last night, shooting an offline pos (so, huge structure, not moving, and with several target painters). I was using 425 II's, and I didn't get a single wrecking shot either, from 2,000m away. And it took like 30 minutes to shoot this thing, so you'd think with a 2.3ish RoF, I'd have seen one. And I got a lot of well-aimed hits, but not a lot of excellent ones either. Let us know what becomes of that bug report. -- Sig under construction.
KhamEee Kazee	Posted - 2008.11.16 20:09:00 - [10] Edited by: KhamEee Kazee on 16/11/2008 20:13:27 Originally by: Xiaodown You know, I thought it was wierd, but that maybe it was just random chance. I was in a munin last night, shooting an offline pos (so, huge structure, not moving, and with several target painters). I was using 425 II's, and I didn't get a single wrecking shot either, from 2,000m away. And it took like 30 minutes to shoot this thing, so you'd think with a 2.3ish RoF, I'd have seen one. And I got a lot of well-aimed hits, but not a lot of excellent ones either. Let us know what becomes of that bug report. Will do. [EDIT] I just had a corpmate in a Harpy and another in a Megathron sit a 100% optimal and range 0 m/s. Fitted my Nighthawk ubertank for kin/therm and we undocked and tested. He added a P.W.N.A.G.E target painter on the Mega. And now after more than 2 full loads from each, under 100% optimal conditions for scoring wrecking hits. You know what?... NOT one wrecking hit from either of them. Even the Harpy only scored 4 Excellent hits from 2 full loads of ammo vs. my target painted Nighthawk sitting perfectly still at his optimal range.
Furb Killer Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.11.16 20:40:00 - [11] Painting wont increase the chance to get wrecking hits. --------------------------------------------- Originally by: Neth'Rae Military experts are calling this a troll.
Kaileen Starsong Amarr Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.11.16 20:47:00 - [12] Doesn't change the fact that he had no wreckings tho. Similar way here, though I'm running with grouped guns. Haven't seen much of deviation in damage from volleys, so I'd assume scratches/light hits are nonexistant either?
Kurull Skullsplitter Minmatar Citizens of E.A.R.T.H. E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2008.11.16 20:56:00 - [13] I don't care that I don't have wrecking hits. I group my four large T2 1200mm arties on my Vargur and I'm getting one volley cruiser pops. So lovely to get a one volley cruiser pop. When ungrouped it takes the equivalent of 2 or 3 volleys from the same four arties. So I pop the frigates with them ungrouped and then I group them for all the larger ships. Pop, pop, pop.
KhamEee Kazee	Posted - 2008.11.16 21:04:00 - [14] Originally by: Kurull Skullsplitter I don't care that I don't have wrecking hits. Never thought I'd hear that coming from a Minmatar - LOL. Well lulz aside, stick to the topic please. This isn't about your grouped guns, or your tactics for running missions. This is about the... Fact? - To be proven otherwise at least, that at the moment turrets are unable to score wrecking hits at all.
Jennz	Posted - 2008.11.16 21:08:00 - [15] Originally by: Kurull Skullsplitter I don't care that I don't have wrecking hits. I group my four large T2 1200mm arties on my Vargur and I'm getting one volley cruiser pops. So lovely to get a one volley cruiser pop. When ungrouped it takes the equivalent of 2 or 3 volleys from the same four arties. So I pop the frigates with them ungrouped and then I group them for all the larger ships. Pop, pop, pop. lol wut? Grouped guns don't do more damage - they're just a convenience for people who don't want to stagger shots/too lazy or whatever.
KhamEee Kazee	Posted - 2008.11.16 22:03:00 - [16] No one else able to put this to more testing with their corp mates so we can make this a known issue? Rather than just me claiming turrets can't make wrecking hits atm, but I'm sure they can't, but would be nice with more ppl confirming this.
Rho'varo Minmatar Diversified Operational Services	Posted - 2008.11.16 22:46:00 - [17] My own logs confirm zero wrecking hits (by me or against me) in PVE contexts since the QR patch, with plenty in my logs for similar activities in the preceding week. This activity includes Medium ACs and Medium Blaster and the destruction of immobile LCS objects under ideal conditions.
Talon Calais Gallente Diplomatic Disruption Chain of Chaos	Posted - 2008.11.16 23:04:00 - [18] Just looked through my Gamelog directory, no log post QR has a wrecking in it, either from NPCs or myself. I fly a vaga / enyo / blasterthron on a daily basis, so it's not like I wouldn't notice them.
Overbrain	Posted - 2008.11.16 23:43:00 - [19] I have to sigh here , i run missions a lot with my nightmare and in every 200 shot or so , one turret manages to land about 4000 damage , and now after the patch 4 guns combined, they didnt ever pass 5500 damage bar . After all those shots, if any turret would land a wrecking hit, damage would be over 7000 at least. I strongly believe something in gunnery has invisibly changed with the introduction of linking.
Nadarius Chrome Celestial Industrial Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.17 02:42:00 - [20] Funny how you mention this, a few days ago I linked my guns and was seeing how big a hit I could get, and it was nothing like what I was expecting. I just assumed that for every decent hit one of the 6 guns lands the others probably didn't, dragging the average down, but this stealth nerf matches what I was seeing too. Like Minmatar weren't nerfed enough already.
Ki Tarra Caldari Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2008.11.17 05:40:00 - [21] I just ran a test based on the comments on this thread. I also found that I had no "wrecking" hits. However, I did have a few "excellent" hits, which where for the expected 3x base damage. I did not run the test long enough to confirm that they still account for 1% of shots, but I expect that nothing has changed other than the discription text.
KhamEee Kazee	Posted - 2008.11.17 12:17:00 - [22] Thanks for the feedback. Seriously hope CCP becomes aware of this... Soon.
Mephistophilis Domination. Sc0rched Earth	Posted - 2008.11.17 12:36:00 - [23] How wierd, i was doing a bit of testing the other night also. Diidn't think much of it at first but now you mention it, i didn't have a single wreaking either
Freya Gleamingstar Storm Genesis Aegis Militia	Posted - 2008.11.17 12:47:00 - [24] Ive run a fair number of missions the past couple of days using assorted size and type projectiles, and sure enough i checked my logs. No wrecking shots. That said, i had some high damage shots that were described as something like "very accurate", which i dont recall seeing previously. Nerf or simple change of description? Im not at home to check pre patch logs to confirm that unfortunately.
Keitaro Baka Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises Babylon Project	Posted - 2008.11.17 13:00:00 - [25] Originally by: KhamEee Kazee Thanks for the feedback. Seriously hope CCP becomes aware of this... Soon. File Bug Report That's the only way to get the right kind of attention. Include logs obviously, set up and situations also help. I would check it, but I mainly use drones.. lol. The logs actually do show nothing for drones. Unless you're the one shot. Since sisi isn't running the same version as TQ, you'd have to include TQ tests. 1000 Salvoes sounds like a decent starting point, maybe one of the bigger mission rats can handle 1000 salvoes from non bonussed weapon ships. Don't group guns.
KhamEee Kazee	Posted - 2008.11.17 14:07:00 - [26] Will go through my logs, and file another bug report with it attached. Hope that will get their attention.
Jennz	Posted - 2008.11.17 14:09:00 - [27] Is it worth filing multiple bug reports about this or is one likely to be sufficient? Not having wrecking hits will seriously eat into aggregate DPS so it's pretty significant for turret users imo.
Merak Thrawn	Posted - 2008.11.17 14:26:00 - [28] Edited by: Merak Thrawn on 17/11/2008 14:27:11 Originally by: Jennz Is it worth filing multiple bug reports about this or is one likely to be sufficient? Not having wrecking hits will seriously eat into aggregate DPS so it's pretty significant for turret users imo. I'd like to think that they take 1 mans bug report seriously, but it's still just a few people and my gamelog claiming they messed up. More proof never hurt anyone tbh.
Gonzo Hadron Gracious Bodily Harm	Posted - 2008.11.17 14:46:00 - [29] This is a major problem if it's true. On a side note I submitted a petition for something different, which included my game log and was told that player submitted logs are never considered when deciding on a petition. If yours are looked at please let us know so I for one can complain about how my petition was handled.
Varkyl Wydon	Posted - 2008.11.17 15:30:00 - [30] I have seen the lack of wrecking hits. I used my Paladin to run Enemies Abound and in the 4th and 5th stages in destroying the Factory and the gate I didn't get any wrecking hits. Normally I will get at least 4 when killing the station. I will have to see if one of my corpmates will let me shoot him with my absolution for testing purposes.
Ki Tarra Caldari Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2008.11.17 16:16:00 - [31] Has anyone else done any really testing one this issue, or is everyone just assuming that the sky is falling because the word "wrecking" no longer appears in the combat log? When I first read this thread I was concerned, lest there have been a stealth nerf to turret mechanics. Because it was late, I only had time for a quick test. As I stated, the damage output appears to be the same, it is just the flavor text that seems to have changed. Has anyone else bothered to test this further to see if there is in fact a change in damage output? Or is it just a matter of jumping on the bandwagon because you're not seeing the word "wrecking"?
Jennz	Posted - 2008.11.17 16:55:00 - [32] Well, wrecking hits for me would commonly be in the 4k+ range. I don't know whether on aggregate the DPS is the same but there is definitely an absence of "wrecking for" in combat logs, and nothing in the patch notes to indicate that there was a conscious decision to change wording. Either way we need some DEV clarification on this - either it's a bug and we're doing less DPS than we should be, or they've reworked the formula for the various hit qualities & damage multipliers. Both are equally significant and worthy of mention in the patch notes...
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.11.17 16:56:00 - [33] Given that I hardly ever used turrets before QR, I can't really say if I'm experiencing a change. However, a cursory look through of my combat logs shows I have not had a single wrecking hit as far back as my log goes (which for turrets is a few days). Seems I most get a "hit" and very rarely an "excellent" hit.
Rivur'Tam Fatality.	Posted - 2008.11.17 17:09:00 - [34] Tbh honest i have not noticed a drop in dps, But i would like to hear ccp anwser to this. If they have took away the wrecking to save lag whatever i'm not botherd but i will be ****ed if they have ninja nerfed dps. Good thread Op. .. I like teh secs and teh boobies
Dr Fighter	Posted - 2008.11.17 17:12:00 - [35] a few people have siad that since the patch they are noticing less damage anyway (and they wernt using grouping, didnt like it apparrently) i didnt think to ask weather that ment dps or less impressive hits
Ki Tarra Caldari Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2008.11.17 17:23:00 - [36] Edited by: Ki Tarra on 17/11/2008 17:24:58 Originally by: Jennz Well, wrecking hits for me would commonly be in the 4k+ range. I don't know whether on aggregate the DPS is the same but there is definitely an absence of "wrecking for" in combat logs, and nothing in the patch notes to indicate that there was a conscious decision to change wording. Either way we need some DEV clarification on this - either it's a bug and we're doing less DPS than we should be, or they've reworked the formula for the various hit qualities & damage multipliers. Both are equally significant and worthy of mention in the patch notes... Do you have anything quantitave on this? Are your best shots still 6x the damage of your worst shots? On my testing, I found that this was still the case, as it has had been prior to this patch. The only change that I noticed was that the flavor text had changed. Is it possible that the attributes of your targets have been changed, thus causing an appearent drop in damage? Have you down any refactoring to see how actual damage compares to theoretical damage?
Jennz	Posted - 2008.11.17 18:06:00 - [37] No, I haven't done any of that - yet. I was just commenting on the fact that I haven't seen wrecking hits in my combat log, like others. My point still stands I think - irrespective of whether or not the aggregate damage has remained the same, whether "wrecking" has just been renamed, or anything else - it's a significant enough change that there are people, like the OP and myself, who are uncertain or confused about the current state of affairs. If CCP were changing the damage formulas it should've been in the patch notes. If there is a bug that is stopping wrecking hits from occuring, then we need some sort of DEV feedback on it.
Ki Tarra Caldari Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2008.11.17 18:27:00 - [38] Edited by: Ki Tarra on 17/11/2008 18:28:13 Originally by: Jennz If CCP were changing the damage formulas it should've been in the patch notes. If there is a bug that is stopping wrecking hits from occuring, then we need some sort of DEV feedback on it. I realize that. But we should not assume a huge rewrite of the turret system, when the only symptom is a change to the flavor text. It is unreasonable to expect dev's to comment everytime some claims they have found a bug, as more often than not things are working as intended the person just didn't know what was intended. Even when they find a bug, it is often not the bug they initially think that they have found. Yes, there should have been a comment in the patch notes saying that the flavor text has changed, even if that is all that was changed. However, before people go claiming that there is a bug that stops wrecking hits or changes the damage formula, they should test to make sure that there are no wrecking hits or that damage has in fact changed.
Solomon XI Hoist The Colors. Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2008.11.17 19:27:00 - [39] You know, I've been running missions in a Megathron ... I've notice the lack of wreckings, myself.
Lady Aja Caldari Ore Mongers Black Hand.	Posted - 2008.11.17 19:30:00 - [40] Originally by: Solomon XI You know, I've been running missions in a Megathron ... I've notice the lack of wreckings, myself. guys find giant Secure Can... use it for testing. heaps of hp to test... infact i am going to test it now... i think a zeaot will take a while to kill a gsc.
Glacius Prime	Posted - 2008.11.17 19:39:00 - [41] No "wrecking" hits for me also... I grouped my weapons; PvE (missions) I think the text is displayed based on the average hit quality of all the weapons in that group. I donÆt dare to test with my weapons ungroupedà If we don't see "wrecking" even with them ungrouped, then we have a problem...
Vanthropy Minmatar	Posted - 2008.11.17 19:59:00 - [42] this must be how they solved hitting outside of max range.. they simply removed wrecking hits, which weren't necessary for the rest of the game to function as intended. pretty smart of ccp. if no one is getting wrecking hits.. then everyone is :) and now there's no broken killmail whoring interceptors
Lady Aja Caldari Ore Mongers Black Hand.	Posted - 2008.11.17 20:45:00 - [43] Originally by: Vanthropy this must be how they solved hitting outside of max range.. they simply removed wrecking hits, which weren't necessary for the rest of the game to function as intended. pretty smart of ccp. if no one is getting wrecking hits.. then everyone is :) and now there's no broken killmail whoring interceptors what kind of damage is folks getting? anything near like a wreckign hit? they may have changed the formuala... wrecking hits used to be triple damage.
Inara Subaka Caldari the united	Posted - 2008.11.17 20:55:00 - [44] I filed a bug report on this as follows: Quote: I have tried multiple times using optimal conditions to score a wrecking shot since the release of QR and have been unable to succeed. I was curious if there was a change that removed wrecking shots from the equation, or what the issue was. And was given the following response: Quote: Hi, wrecking shots were removed because of weapon linking. They will now be shown as an excellent hit. Aratoxi
Ki Tarra Caldari Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2008.11.17 21:24:00 - [45] Originally by: Lady Aja what kind of damage is folks getting? anything near like a wreckign hit? they may have changed the formuala... wrecking hits used to be triple damage. Which is exactly the hit size that I was getting on my earlier test. Hit ranges between 50% and 150%, with "wrecking" hits dealing 300% damage. Thus your strongest hits are 3x your base damage or 6x your weakest hits, which is what I was finding still happens. From my testing it appears that only the flavor text was changed, not the damage from the hits: as the bug hunter said, "They will now be shown as an excellent hit."
Kuzya Morozov Gallente L8L8L8	Posted - 2008.11.17 22:18:00 - [46] Yeah, neither me nor any of my corpmates have gotten wrecking shots in QR yet... (I asked them)
Lady Aja Caldari Ore Mongers Black Hand.	Posted - 2008.11.17 22:34:00 - [47] Originally by: Ki Tarra Originally by: Lady Aja what kind of damage is folks getting? anything near like a wreckign hit? they may have changed the formuala... wrecking hits used to be triple damage. Which is exactly the hit size that I was getting on my earlier test. Hit ranges between 50% and 150%, with "wrecking" hits dealing 300% damage. Thus your strongest hits are 3x your base damage or 6x your weakest hits, which is what I was finding still happens. From my testing it appears that only the flavor text was changed, not the damage from the hits: as the bug hunter said, "They will now be shown as an excellent hit." thats not so bad then so long as its still possible to get x3 damage then all is ok in the world of turrets. I will have a look at what dange my tueets can do max and keep an eye out see what happens
Rake Mizar Tenth Legion Holdings Tenth Legion	Posted - 2008.11.18 00:37:00 - [48] I would have figured this to be in the patch notes under 'spelling error corrections'.
Arazel Chainfire Dissolution Of Eternity Ethikos Trade Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.18 05:12:00 - [49] Tested this with my nightmare on my domi (2 accounts). 250 shots, I got 2 excelent hits for around 500 damage (highest was 520) and lowest of 87. Most shots landed between 100 and 200 damage. Testing was done with tachyon nightmare at 1km from domi, both ships absolutely still. Highest shot was 5.9x the damage of the lowest shot in my test, and around 3x the damage of most of my normal shots (180 or so was the average). This means that even though there aren't wrecking shots anymore, there is still about a 1% chance of getting an excellent hit for 3x normal damage, or 6x lowest damage. Will continue test at later date. For now though... left 4 dead just came out... -Arazel
Jennz	Posted - 2008.11.18 05:21:00 - [50] "barely scratches" has disappeared as well, so on the basis of that and the bug report response posted above I guess CCP have reworked the hit quality formula. Still, would've been nice to have been told eh?
Mephistophilis Domination. Sc0rched Earth	Posted - 2008.11.18 14:06:00 - [51] It's not just the text, there is definatly less dmg being delt. From my astarte a wreaking shot would be around 1200 and no hits are giving anything like that now
Ki Tarra Caldari Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2008.11.18 16:25:00 - [52] Edited by: Ki Tarra on 18/11/2008 16:33:59 Originally by: Mephistophilis It's not just the text, there is definatly less dmg being delt. From my astarte a wreaking shot would be around 1200 and no hits are giving anything like that now What is your setup? What are the resistances of your target? In order to get a wrecking shot of 1200 with an Astarte, I calculated that you would need max skills, 3x T2 Mag-Stabs, 2x 5% damage implants and Void/Faction Antimatar. Does your setup include all of that? You can calculate your wrecking shot damage out-of-game. So if there has been a change, it should be no trouble at all proving it. Saying that your wrecking shot damage was "round" some amount doesn't cut it when bug hunting. Originally by: Jennz "barely scratches" has disappeared as well, so on the basis of that and the bug report response posted above I guess CCP have reworked the hit quality formula. So far the formula looks the same as it has been for the past several years. It is just the flavor text that appears to have changed. We know how it should work. If it is not working like that now, it is easy enough to prove it by proper testing.
Lady Aja Caldari Ore Mongers Black Hand.	Posted - 2008.11.18 17:20:00 - [53] guys to figure out max damage you get youre EXACT dam mod... times it by youre ammo damage... say youre damage mod for ease of point is a flate 15. ammo being used is EMP L so it looks like this... 10 x 36 ( em 20 + exp 16 ) = 360 base max damae no excellent shots or wrecking shots. wrecking shot would be 360x3= 1080 if you have not been getting effectively triple damage then wreckign shots are nerfed/bugged.
Ki Tarra Caldari Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2008.11.18 17:48:00 - [54] Edited by: Ki Tarra on 18/11/2008 17:50:03 Originally by: Lady Aja if you have not been getting effectively triple damage then wreckign shots are nerfed/bugged. This! ...with the minor addition of correcting for your target's resistances. If your turret's damage modifier was 4.2, your ammo does 10th + 14ki, and your target has resistances of 20%th + 40%ki, then your wrecking hit would be 3 x 4.2 x ( 0.8 x 10 + 0.6 x 14) = 206.64. Find your damage multiplier by showing info on a fitted turret.
Bellicose Gallente PsyCorp Dirt Nap Associates	Posted - 2008.11.18 18:04:00 - [55] can they have changed them to excellent hits? becourse i did this 2 days ago [ 2008.11.16 16:04:30 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your Ammatar Navy Tachyon Beam Laser places an excellent hit on Pleasure Hub Sentinel, inflicting 3574.1 damage. seemed kinda high too me for a non wrecking hit
Jennz	Posted - 2008.11.18 18:16:00 - [56] Originally by: Bellicose can they have changed them to excellent hits? becourse i did this 2 days ago [ 2008.11.16 16:04:30 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your Ammatar Navy Tachyon Beam Laser places an excellent hit on Pleasure Hub Sentinel, inflicting 3574.1 damage. seemed kinda high too me for a non wrecking hit As mentioned previously it seems as if they have changed the hit qualities as "barely scratches" has disappeared as well. Seems like it's only "hits", "is well-aimed", "excellent" now (as well as "misses" obviously). There used to be a post on here a while back where someone actually worked out the percentage of hits that were in each category - I guess someone needs to do the same with the data we have now.
KhamEee Kazee	Posted - 2008.11.18 18:18:00 - [57] For me at least, the dps in the Kronos seem lower. I might be wrong, but I used to get a lot of excellent and wrecking hits (SS Tracking Comp, Tracking script + Tracking Rig). Did Recon 1/3 last night and it took me somewhat longer than before, and I even got lucky with the jammers. Again I could be wrong, but my missiontimes were very consistent, and they're slower now in the Kronos, then they were before QR.
Ki Tarra Caldari Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2008.11.18 19:01:00 - [58] Originally by: KhamEee Kazee For me at least, the dps in the Kronos seem lower. One more time. There is no "seems" to be lower. Either it is lower or it is not. The chance-to-hit formula is well known. As is its relationship to damage. Wrecking hits accout for 1% of shots as long as you have atleast a 1% chance-to-hit. If you have less than 1% chance-to-hit, then all hits will be wrecking hits. Non-wrecking hits fall in the range of 51% to 50%+chance-to-hit. So if you have a 75% chance to hit, 25% of your shots will miss, 1% of your shots will deal 3x damage, the remaining 74% will be evenly spread between 0.51x and 1.25x. If you are not seeing as many excellent hits (those shots that deal 1.25x to 1.5x damage) then you should first and for most look at any changes that may have occured with relation to tracking. Perhaps look at the effect that the change in web stats has had on tracking? It would not be suprising for you to see higher angular velocities and therefore lower chances to hit., due to the fact that you are not webbing rats as strong as you were prior to the patch. You might want to adjust your tactics to compensate.
Durethia Black Plague.	Posted - 2008.11.18 19:24:00 - [59] Originally by: Ki Tarra You can calculate your wrecking shot damage out-of-game. So if there has been a change, it should be no trouble at all proving it. The original complaint wasn't the DPS of the wrecking shot, but the frequency of wrecking shots. In other words, it doesn't matter what the target resistances are, resistances never prevented a wrecking shot from occuring it only effected the amount of damage that registered as a wrecking shot. (If you have very high resists, people shooting you used to still get wrecking shots, it's historically trivial to see a wrecking shot of only 50-150 on a HAC with high resistances.) The fact that people are claiming they have gone the whole day and no one has a single wrecking shot logged is absolute, infallible and indisputable evidence, that something has changed. Which this "change" IS the concern of this thread. Primary worry is that turret based pilots might be concerned that their overall DPS is ruined, secondary worry is the fact we all enjoyed seeing the wrecking shots (we post the highest of them in our bios!). Again, the circumstances of the target really don't matter at all whether you get a wrecking shot. The only thing that should have changed, was the documented change saying that turrets would no longer register hits (including wrecking shots) outside of reasonable range (falloff + optimal). As long as a target can be hit, a wrecking shot should be possible. It would further seem that given optimal circumstances such as target sitting still, at optimal range, with substantial number of tries, that a wrecking shot should be rendered along a perceptive average comparable to past experience with receiving a wrecking shot. But, apparently, the amount of wrecking shots have dramatically changed from the last patch. I haven't seen a single wrecking shot myself either. "Excellent" shots were a dime a dozen, for a webbed stiff target Excellent shots were the overwhelming majority, it seems according to those within this thread, they are now rare. What is the problem?
Sean Faust Gallente Point of No Return Eradication Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.18 20:05:00 - [60] Originally by: Durethia Originally by: Ki Tarra You can calculate your wrecking shot damage out-of-game. So if there has been a change, it should be no trouble at all proving it. The original complaint wasn't the DPS of the wrecking shot, but the frequency of wrecking shots. In other words, it doesn't matter what the target resistances are, resistances never prevented a wrecking shot from occuring it only effected the amount of damage that registered as a wrecking shot. (If you have very high resists, people shooting you used to still get wrecking shots, it's historically trivial to see a wrecking shot of only 50-150 on a HAC with high resistances.) The fact that people are claiming they have gone the whole day and no one has a single wrecking shot logged is absolute, infallible and indisputable evidence, that something has changed. Which this "change" IS the concern of this thread. Primary worry is that turret based pilots might be concerned that their overall DPS is ruined, secondary worry is the fact we all enjoyed seeing the wrecking shots (we post the highest of them in our bios!). Again, the circumstances of the target really don't matter at all whether you get a wrecking shot. The only thing that should have changed, was the documented change saying that turrets would no longer register hits (including wrecking shots) outside of reasonable range (falloff + optimal). As long as a target can be hit, a wrecking shot should be possible. It would further seem that given optimal circumstances such as target sitting still, at optimal range, with substantial number of tries, that a wrecking shot should be rendered along a perceptive average comparable to past experience with receiving a wrecking shot. But, apparently, the amount of wrecking shots have dramatically changed from the last patch. I haven't seen a single wrecking shot myself either. "Excellent" shots were a dime a dozen, for a webbed stiff target Excellent shots were the overwhelming majority, it seems according to those within this thread, they are now rare. What is the problem? Nothing has changed in the formula or the way damaging/wrecking shots are calculated. The only thing that has changed is the NAME. Anything that WOULD have been considered a wrecking shot before now is called excellent, though the damage has NOT changed. The only thing that has been changed is that the WORD "wrecking" has been omitted, along with "barely scratches". The formula has NOT changed in a way that would affect damage, however. The reason theyre seeing lower overall DPS is because of the turret tracking changes that have decreased your chance to hit anything smaller than your OWN SIZED SHIP e.g. battleship guns firing on cruisers and battlecruisers now take a chance to hit penalty more severe than before, so you miss more often which equates to lower overall DPS and more time clearing missions.
Ki Tarra Caldari Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2008.11.18 21:11:00 - [61] Edited by: Ki Tarra on 18/11/2008 21:13:29 Originally by: Durethia The original complaint wasn't the DPS of the wrecking shot, but the frequency of wrecking shots. The "problem" is that people seem to think that the word "wrecking" as any significance at all. A "wrecking" hit is one that hits for 3x the base damage, calculated as described in earlier posts. "Wrecking" hits will account for 1% of your shots as long as you have atleast a 1% chance to hit. This was true before the patch, and every test mentioned in this thread has found that it is still true after the patch. The problem is that ignorant people seem to be jumping to the conclusion that because the word "wrecking" is no longer appearing in the combat logs, that they are some how doing less damage than they were before the patch. The entire point of the post which you quoted, was to request that people upgrade their intellegence to a level that will allow them to look past the meaningless flavor text to see if there has been any meaningful change in the damage done. So far nobody has come foward to show that anything more than the flavor text has changed. Every test that has shown a moderate degree of understanding has found that turrets are working the same now as they did before the patch. Originally by: Sean Faust The reason theyre seeing lower overall DPS is because of the turret tracking changes that have decreased your chance to hit anything smaller than your OWN SIZED SHIP e.g. battleship guns firing on cruisers and battlecruisers now take a chance to hit penalty more severe than before, so you miss more often which equates to lower overall DPS and more time clearing missions. Not even this is true. There has been no indication of any change to turret tracking, nor your chances to hit smaller targets with turrets. Missiles were rebalanced, but not turrets. The only thing remotely related to tracking that has changed is the attributes of webs. This had particularly huge effect on the Kronos/Paladins which are/were using Domination webs. Prior to the patch a Kronos/Paladin with a Domination web had a 99% web effect. Now it will have a 75% web effect. That is a 25x difference in effectiveness. Go fit a pair of Gallente Navy webs any you will be back to near your previous effectiveness.
Lady Aja Caldari Ore Mongers Black Hand.	Posted - 2008.11.18 21:55:00 - [62] Originally by: Sean Faust Originally by: Durethia Originally by: Ki Tarra You can calculate your wrecking shot damage out-of-game. So if there has been a change, it should be no trouble at all proving it. The original complaint wasn't the DPS of the wrecking shot, but the frequency of wrecking shots. In other words, it doesn't matter what the target resistances are, resistances never prevented a wrecking shot from occuring it only effected the amount of damage that registered as a wrecking shot. (If you have very high resists, people shooting you used to still get wrecking shots, it's historically trivial to see a wrecking shot of only 50-150 on a HAC with high resistances.) The fact that people are claiming they have gone the whole day and no one has a single wrecking shot logged is absolute, infallible and indisputable evidence, that something has changed. Which this "change" IS the concern of this thread. Primary worry is that turret based pilots might be concerned that their overall DPS is ruined, secondary worry is the fact we all enjoyed seeing the wrecking shots (we post the highest of them in our bios!). Again, the circumstances of the target really don't matter at all whether you get a wrecking shot. The only thing that should have changed, was the documented change saying that turrets would no longer register hits (including wrecking shots) outside of reasonable range (falloff + optimal). As long as a target can be hit, a wrecking shot should be possible. It would further seem that given optimal circumstances such as target sitting still, at optimal range, with substantial number of tries, that a wrecking shot should be rendered along a perceptive average comparable to past experience with receiving a wrecking shot. But, apparently, the amount of wrecking shots have dramatically changed from the last patch. I haven't seen a single wrecking shot myself either. "Excellent" shots were a dime a dozen, for a webbed stiff target Excellent shots were the overwhelming majority, it seems according to those within this thread, they are now rare. What is the problem? The reason theyre seeing lower overall DPS is because of the turret tracking changes that have decreased your chance to hit anything smaller than your OWN SIZED SHIP e.g. battleship guns firing on cruisers and battlecruisers now take a chance to hit penalty more severe than before, so you miss more often which equates to lower overall DPS and more time clearing missions. this is the reason why i have put off training up for a paladin for now. might go and train up absolution now.
Jennz	Posted - 2008.11.18 22:38:00 - [63] Edited by: Jennz on 18/11/2008 22:44:38 Originally by: Sean Faust Nothing has changed in the formula or the way damaging/wrecking shots are calculated. The only thing that has changed is the NAME. Anything that WOULD have been considered a wrecking shot before now is called excellent, though the damage has NOT changed. The only thing that has been changed is that the WORD "wrecking" has been omitted, along with "barely scratches". The formula has NOT changed in a way that would affect damage, however. How can you say that? Two TYPES of hit have completely disappeared ("wrecking" and "barely scratches"). If the formula HASN'T been changed to accommodate this then there HAS been a nerf to DPS. It stands to reason - if "wrecking" was the source of 3x damage, and "barely scratches" did ANY damage at all (which of course it did) then removing either/both of them without reworking the formula to ensure that the DPS remains the same whether it's called "excellent", "lightly tickles" or whatever then our DPS would've gone down. Pre-QR you could "glances off", "barely misses", "misses" (all misses), "barely scratches", "hits", "is well aimed", "places an excellent hit", "perfectly strikes" (all hits of varying qualities). Post-QR you can "glances off", "barely misses", "misses" (all misses), "hits", "is well aimed", "places an excellent hit" ..that's two actual hits that no longer exist in the game. If the hit quality formula hasn't been changed to accommodate that then we've been nerfed, pure and simple. Originally by: Ki Tarra The problem is that ignorant people seem to be jumping to the conclusion that because the word "wrecking" is no longer appearing in the combat logs, that they are some how doing less damage than they were before the patch. No one has said that explicitly so I don't know why you're putting words in peoples mouths. The OP said he isn't seeing wrecking hits anymore - which has been confirmed by several other people including myself. It's hardly out of order for people to wonder what's going on given there has been no information in any patch notes indicating that anything had changed in terms of hit qualities. I just want clarification on it one way or the other - no more, no less. Incidentally a bug report I submitted earlier on this has now apparently "been attached to a known defect".
Ki Tarra Caldari Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2008.11.18 22:50:00 - [64] Edited by: Ki Tarra on 18/11/2008 22:51:34 Originally by: Jennz Two TYPES of hit have completely disappeared ("wrecking" and "barely scratches"). No types of hits have disappeared! The types of hits are all still there. Would it matter if could "dsjfh", "asjdfhj", "jkshdfj", "sdfsd", "sjdfhasj", "jsdfh", "sjdfhaj", "jsafhdaj" before QR, and then after QR you could only "jkshdfj", "sdfsd", "sjdfhasj", "jsdfh", "sjdfhaj", "jsafhdaj" If your hits still do 51%-150% or 300% damage with exactly the same probablity, then WTF does it matter what flavor text appears in your combat logs. Look at the ****ing damage numbers instead of the text.
Jennz	Posted - 2008.11.18 23:01:00 - [65] Edited by: Jennz on 18/11/2008 23:02:45 Is there a reason you're just being facetious now? How old are you? The damage numbers aren't an exact science though are they? If one type of hit always hit for 300 and another always hit for 500, and so on, we could work out at a glance if overall DPS has changed. It's not that simple though is it - hits go from min-max and vary according to a whole host of factors - target resists, etc. Unless someone is in a position to work out scientifically if DPS is still the same even if the wording has changed, or a Dev steps in and says "nothing has changed", then I personally won't be happy about the current state of affairs. You may well be happy to accept a possible nerf without any apparent justification but I'm not, and it seems nor are other people. Is it so wrong to want some form of clarification on this whether it be someone who has actually worked out the DPS (like the previous thread on hit qualities), or a Dev? No offence but your say-so that nothing has changed doesn't mean jack st. Once again for the cheap seats: NO ONE CARES ABOUT THE FKING WORDING.
Overbrain	Posted - 2008.11.18 23:04:00 - [66] Ok people, i got an update here. Criticals seems to be back . 2 days after this topic was created. Now im experiencing critical hits and the regular numbers which i used to have in eve before QR. It seems the ninja nerf or bug is invisibly fixed in another ninja way. So lets stop fighting eachother and celebrate having good old criticals back.
Jennz	Posted - 2008.11.18 23:05:00 - [67] Edited by: Jennz on 18/11/2008 23:05:50 Originally by: Overbrain Ok people, i got an update here. Criticals seems to be back . 2 days after this topic was created. Now im experiencing critical hits and the regular numbers which i used to have in eve before QR. It seems the ninja nerf or bug is invisibly fixed in another ninja way. So lets stop fighting eachother and celebrate having good old criticals back. Holy s*t you mean Ki Tarra might actually have been wrong* and DPS was inadvertently nerfed? It can't be!?
Ki Tarra Caldari Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2008.11.18 23:07:00 - [68] Originally by: Jennz The damage numbers aren't an exact science though are they? But it is an exact science. We know exactly what the range of damage you can get in any specific situation is. When I get home, I can figure out how the new flavor text maps over to damage values if that will make you feel better. It is not too hard: - Anchor a secure can - Take about 1000 shots at it while stationary - Look at your combat logs an see how the text maps to damage in terms of percentage. - You can then map misses the same way, just start moving out of optimal into fall off. - As you start to miss, your best quality shots will be changed into your nearest misses - Watch points where the flavor text changes as each description of hit turns into a miss.
Jennz	Posted - 2008.11.18 23:08:00 - [69] Originally by: Ki Tarra Originally by: Jennz The damage numbers aren't an exact science though are they? But it is an exact science. We know exactly what the range of damage you can get in any specific situation is. When I get home, I can figure out how the new flavor text maps over to damage values if that will make you feel better. It is not too hard: - Anchor a secure can - Take about 1000 shots at it while stationary - Look at your combat logs an see how the text maps to damage in terms of percentage. - You can then map misses the same way, just start moving out of optimal into fall off. - As you start to miss, your best quality shots will be changed into your nearest misses - Watch points where the flavor text changes as each description of hit turns into a miss. That's why I said I would be happy if someone scientifically proved it. The above is a scientific method. You (or anyone else) saying "it's still the same just accept it and stop crying" != science.
Ki Tarra Caldari Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2008.11.18 23:13:00 - [70] Edited by: Ki Tarra on 18/11/2008 23:15:01 Originally by: Jennz That's why I said I would be happy if someone scientifically proved it. The above is a scientific method. You (or anyone else) saying "it's still the same just accept it and stop crying" != science. You seem to have missed the part where I already did the science. Two days ago. Back when this thread first got started. I skipped the part about mapping flavor text to damage because I didn't think that it mattered. Like you said: "NO ONE CARES ABOUT THE F**KING WORDING." This thread appears to keep going on still the same, because those claiming there has been a change to damage output seem to be unwilling to do the science. "Crying OMG I don't see any 'wrecking' hits" != science.
Stil Harkonnen	Posted - 2008.11.19 00:01:00 - [71] Edited by: Stil Harkonnen on 19/11/2008 00:01:59 Damn somebody's really ****ed that their missiles got nerfed... what if I really liked seeing that I get get wrecking hits? my gunnery skills royally suck right now and I really loved it when by chance one of my medium blasters "strikes <insert rat name> perfectly wrecking for 264.5 damage" edit: p i s s is automatically censored and damn isn't???
Ki Tarra Caldari Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2008.11.19 02:51:00 - [72] Originally by: Stil Harkonnen what if I really liked seeing that I get get wrecking hits? Not to worry. You can still spot the "wrecking" hits just as easily as before. With ungrouped turrets the break down of damage descriptions is: 0.5x - 1.0x = "Your <turret> hits <target>, doing <number> damage." 1.0x - 1.5x = "Your <turret> is well aimed at <target>, inflicting <number> damage." 3.0x = "Your <turret> places an excellent hit on <target>, inflicting <number> damage." If you group the turrets it appears to follow a slightly different pattern. I am still collecting data to see what that pattern is. However, the pattern is very similar to the single turret descriptions. I am also still working out the details for the flavor text on misses. I will post when I have more information on this. As for the frequency of "wrecking", "excellent", or whatever adjective you want to use for hits with a 3x multiplier, it is still at 1%, reconfirmed this evening on TQ during my testing of flavor text.
BiggestT Caldari Space Oddysey Pupule 'Ohana	Posted - 2008.11.19 05:45:00 - [73] Perhaps theyve just taken away the wrecking hit notification. U'd think theyd tell us though, ninja nerfing a cool feature is pointless unless it reduces lag. If it reduces lag then they def. shld have told us.
BiggestT Caldari Space Oddysey Pupule 'Ohana	Posted - 2008.11.19 05:53:00 - [74] Originally by: Jennz Pre-QR you could "glances off", "barely misses", "misses" (all misses), "barely scratches", "hits", "is well aimed", "places an excellent hit", "perfectly strikes" (all hits of varying qualities). Post-QR you can "glances off", "barely misses", "misses" (all misses), "hits", "is well aimed", "places an excellent hit" ..that's two actual hits that no longer exist in the game. If the hit quality formula hasn't been changed to accommodate that then we've been nerfed, pure and simple. WTF, why would they keep the useless ones like "barely misses" and "glances off" When they cld just replace them all with "misses" and no-one wld give a damn. But instead they take away the cool notifications like "wrecking". They only thing i can think of is that it was un-intentional (like when the copy url option dissapeared). OR that the "glance's off" etc shots generated less/no lag when compared to "wrecking"
Merak Thrawn	Posted - 2008.11.20 23:45:00 - [75] Well if they change something in a patch. Which they obviously did in this case. We should at least have been properly informed and explained what, why, how etc. Ninja changes are uncool
Captain Ziltoid	Posted - 2008.11.21 01:29:00 - [76] Originally by: Ki Tarra You seem to have missed the part where I already did the science. Two days ago. Back when this thread first got started. Arazel Chainfire also verified my results. I skipped the part about mapping flavor text to damage because I didn't think that it mattered. Like you said: "NO ONE CARES ABOUT THE F**KING WORDING." This thread appears to keep going on still the same, because those claiming there has been a change to damage output seem to be unwilling to do the science. "Crying OMG I don't see any 'wrecking' hits" != science. http://imgs.xkcd.com/store/imgs/stand_back_square_0.png On a more serious note. Just because wrecking hits are still mathematically possible, given the forumlas provided, doesn't mean somethign didn't screw up on CCP's end. And if they WERE still being calculated, but not showing as "wrecking" then it is STILL a bug, for the hits should show up as "WRECKING" when a "WRECKING HIT" is achieved. Also, YAY I get wreckings again.
Jennz	Posted - 2008.11.27 03:34:00 - [77] Originally by: CCP Build 70124 to 70333 addresses Patch Notes for Quantum Rise 1.0.2 Patch notes for Quantum Rise 1.0.2, released 27 November 2008 Turret damage is now displayed correctly in the player logs. Wrecking and excellent hits will be shown in all of their pew pew glory. Clearly something was broken then, as they're fixing it. Good to know.
Lady Aja Caldari Ore Mongers Black Hand.	Posted - 2008.11.27 04:08:00 - [78] Originally by: Jennz Originally by: CCP Build 70124 to 70333 addresses Patch Notes for Quantum Rise 1.0.2 Patch notes for Quantum Rise 1.0.2, released 27 November 2008 Turret damage is now displayed correctly in the player logs. Wrecking and excellent hits will be shown in all of their pew pew glory. Clearly something was broken then, as they're fixing it. Good to know. cant wait for a wrecking shot grouped weapons.. My harbi already gets nearly 1900 group damage in some cases. and ppl wonder why i recently pwned a pilgrim....
Ancy Denaries Caldari Solaris Operations	Posted - 2008.11.27 08:59:00 - [79] Originally by: Lady Aja Originally by: Jennz Originally by: CCP Build 70124 to 70333 addresses Patch Notes for Quantum Rise 1.0.2 Patch notes for Quantum Rise 1.0.2, released 27 November 2008 Turret damage is now displayed correctly in the player logs. Wrecking and excellent hits will be shown in all of their pew pew glory. Clearly something was broken then, as they're fixing it. Good to know. cant wait for a wrecking shot grouped weapons.. My harbi already gets nearly 1900 group damage in some cases. and ppl wonder why i recently pwned a pilgrim.... Just please notice that ALL 7 guns won't wreck at the same time. It was stated at Fanfest that the hit qualities are calculated separately, although everrything else is calculated en-masse. Imagine an arty Pest getting a full rack wrecker? Imbalanced, yes? So no, all guns will not hit/miss for same quality. That is still individual. Balance is important, but you will always adapt to changing circumstances and you don't whine about stuff you can't change.
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.11.27 10:26:00 - [80] Originally by: Ancy Denaries Originally by: Lady Aja Originally by: Jennz Originally by: CCP Build 70124 to 70333 addresses Patch Notes for Quantum Rise 1.0.2 Patch notes for Quantum Rise 1.0.2, released 27 November 2008 Turret damage is now displayed correctly in the player logs. Wrecking and excellent hits will be shown in all of their pew pew glory. Clearly something was broken then, as they're fixing it. Good to know. cant wait for a wrecking shot grouped weapons.. My harbi already gets nearly 1900 group damage in some cases. and ppl wonder why i recently pwned a pilgrim.... Just please notice that ALL 7 guns won't wreck at the same time. It was stated at Fanfest that the hit qualities are calculated separately, although everrything else is calculated en-masse. Imagine an arty Pest getting a full rack wrecker? Imbalanced, yes? So no, all guns will not hit/miss for same quality. That is still individual. Well, nothing says you CAN'T get wrecking hits with every gun on a ship, other than probability. It's a 1% chance per gun, so on an 8 gun ship like an Abaddon for example that means your chance at getting a full rack wrecking shot is what? 1:100,000,000,000,000 (one in one hundred trillion). If someone manages to get a full rack wrecking shot, I say they win eve.
Baneful Gallente The Aduro Protocol	Posted - 2008.11.27 11:06:00 - [81] Edited by: Baneful on 27/11/2008 11:09:10 It seems like CCP changed a bunch of the calculations around. I have searched some logs, and I am only seeing "hits" and "is well aimed". No "barely scratches" or "lightly hits" or "strikes perfectly" for that matter. It would be my assumption that CCP is trying to take some of the "luck" out of the game and regulate DPS by pure straightforwardness. I used to believe that wrecks and crappy shots (as well as misses) were a part of the DPS calculation. But, I could be wrong. At any rate, yeah. Still getting "barely misses" and "misses completely" though :) (albiet only once in a while ;D) WAIT!!!!!!! I have found a Barely Scratches (though with a grouped set) [ 2008.11.16 18:14:03 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your group of Heavy Neutron Blaster II barely scratches Core Admiral, causing 85.2 damage. !!! ------------------ I Seem To Have Misplaced My Sig...
Math'ra Hiede Amarr Quality Assurance Inc.	Posted - 2008.11.27 11:14:00 - [82] Now that you mention it... - I haven't seena any of those style hits, and I use a Navy Apoc and Harbinger for my two frequently piloted ships and both of them hit for wrecking shots (mainly the Harb) occasionally, but it was very noticable - with and without grouped weapons... v. interesting - I hope it hasn't been a stealth nerf to DPS, which is odd because I swear I have been doing MORE dps, although tracking isn't as good as I remember it being
Ancy Denaries Caldari Solaris Operations	Posted - 2008.11.27 12:12:00 - [83] Wow, it repeats itself... If you've read the thread you'll notice that the fix that fixes the combat log messages is to be deployed TODAY. (Right now if I'm not mistaken.) Balance is important, but you will always adapt to changing circumstances and you don't whine about stuff you can't change.
Jennz	Posted - 2008.11.27 12:59:00 - [84] Originally by: Ancy Denaries Wow, it repeats itself... If you've read the thread you'll notice that the fix that fixes the combat log messages is to be deployed TODAY. (Right now if I'm not mistaken.) This. The wording (and/or DPS) was broken, they're fixing it/have fixed it. Confused? Good!
Rosalina Sarinna Aliastra	Posted - 2008.11.27 13:20:00 - [85] I had also noticed it had been 'missing' - beign that just the word or the actualy shot type. Anyways, will be interesting to see after the patch if it comes back!

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