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Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2008.12.02 05:53:00 -
[121]
I'd also like to state that I still have the casino txt logs for all games, chip adds, withdrawls |
Brock Nelson
Caldari
Flux Technologies Inc
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Posted - 2008.12.02 05:55:00 -
[122]
Edited by: Brock Nelson on 02/12/2008 05:56:21
Seeing how Lucy/emf hasn't made the site for investors to review profit/loss, could you summarize them for us? Basically, I'm looking to see total income, total payout, net income/loss.
10% for Returning Customers |
Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2008.12.02 06:10:00 -
[123]
With the person in specific I'll just go ahead and post it, since its pretty short and Im amazed I still have access to it. (second thing I tried after API data once I saw this thread blow up)
Sun 23 Nov 08 19:45:57 -0600 Changed: chorizo chorizo500000000 withdraw:
Mon 24 Nov 08 13:12:56 -0600 Changed: chorizo chorizo220000000 withdraw:
Wed 26 Nov 08 14:39:03 -0600 Changed: chorizo chorizo900000000 withdraw:
Wed 26 Nov 08 14:51:42 -0600 Changed: chorizo chorizo800000000 withdraw:
Wed 26 Nov 08 14:53:37 -0600 Changed: chorizo chorizo140000000 withdraw:
Thu 27 Nov 08 16:46:47 -0600 Changed: chorizo chorizo1500000000 withdraw:
Thu 27 Nov 08 16:53:28 -0600 Changed: chorizo chorizo-5670000000 withdraw:
Fri 28 Nov 08 14:06:25 -0600 Changed: chorizo chorizo1500000000 withdraw:
Fri 28 Nov 08 14:16:12 -0600 Changed: chorizo chorizo400000000 withdraw:
Fri 28 Nov 08 14:20:07 -0600 Changed: chorizo chorizo1000000000 withdraw:
Fri 28 Nov 08 14:35:54 -0600 Changed: chorizo chorizo600000000 withdraw:
Fri 28 Nov 08 14:48:15 -0600 Changed: chorizo chorizo1000000000 withdraw:
Fri 28 Nov 08 14:52:48 -0600 Changed: chorizo chorizo1500000000 withdraw:
Fri 28 Nov 08 14:55:08 -0600 Changed: chorizo chorizo2000000000 withdraw:
Fri 28 Nov 08 15:00:28 -0600 Changed: chorizo chorizo1800000000 withdraw:
Fri 28 Nov 08 15:20:00 -0600 Changed: chorizo chorizo130000000 withdraw:
Sun 30 Nov 08 17:37:18 -0600 Changed: chorizo chorizo400000000 withdraw:
Mon 01 Dec 08 11:53:02 -0600 Changed: chorizo chorizo800000000 withdraw:
Mon 01 Dec 08 12:13:22 -0600 Changed: chorizo chorizo800000000 withdraw:
Mon 01 Dec 08 22:37:20 -0600 Changed: chorizo chorizo-12060000000 withdraw:
I think I posted what information I was given on the 27th.... so I'm guessing that 5b withdrawal amount is the zero account move that I never got to see.
I'll let EMF explain anything before I start posting the game logs. |
Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2008.12.02 06:13:00 -
[124]
 Originally by: Brock Nelson
Edited by: Brock Nelson on 02/12/2008 05:56:21
Seeing how Lucy/emf hasn't made the site for investors to review profit/loss, could you summarize them for us? Basically, I'm looking to see total income, total payout, net income/loss.
I forgot to mention that the video poker data is worthless, there was an obvious payout bug, that appeared to be fixed the day before I finished my audit according to my original game logs.
The roulette was tracking close to the standard 48% with a 2% house advantage while blackjack while slightly higher than the norm of what 36% in casinos now, was still on track to turn a profit.
Remember, I had zero access to the actual code from the website.
...so yeah with that posted Im off to smoke a cig, go to bed, and hope things clear okay in the morning. |
Garia666
Amarr
T.H.U.G L.I.F.E
White Core
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Posted - 2008.12.02 13:01:00 -
[125]
so did we get robbed?
www.garia.net |
Atheana Vernius
Minmatar
Tectrian Ventures
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Posted - 2008.12.02 14:02:00 -
[126]
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=938654
An acusation of the scam
An optimist may see a light where there is none, but why must the pessimist always run to blow it out?
Rene Descartes |
XrayZII
VXR Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2008.12.02 20:41:00 -
[127]
Originally by: Garia666
so did we get robbed?
seems so if not proven otherwise 
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cosmoray
Cosmoray Construction
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Posted - 2008.12.02 21:02:00 -
[128]
Now I have no idea if this is a SCAM or not, but the biggest concern over launching a casino is trust.
1. Trust that the games are FAIR
2. Trust that the banker/teller will accept ISK and deposit into the account and payout when requested.
EOH (poker) does an awesome job of this and runs an excellent service. The one advantage for Poker is that it is third party software and can't be rigged (hopefully).
The only way a casino will run is with people handling the ISK can be trusted, as such Kazzac and others volunteered to partner with the casino.
I am not sure whether this will turn into a SCAM or not, but the trust issue has been broken so I can't see how the casino will survive?
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Damien Jax
Chaos Faction
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Posted - 2008.12.02 21:04:00 -
[129]
Seems to me like the owner of the casino figured out that they're losing money, decided to ask for more and closed up shop with all of your hard earned isk...
Perhaps they should have run tests on their games first to see if they'd be profitable. While generally the house always wins, enormous payouts can eat away those profits quickly.
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Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2008.12.02 21:29:00 -
[130]
Im not holding it to a scam yet, payouts were made to players (non related by any connection I could find through corporate history, evesearch) through the initial history of the casino and generally speaking barring a complete total run and failure on the RNG it would make a profit
I'll wait to see where it goes.. EMF I would suggest that you use someone other than me if you want to verify that payouts have been made to players since the start of the casino. I don't want my hands tainted at all. |
Damien Jax
Chaos Faction
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Posted - 2008.12.02 21:49:00 -
[131]
Kazzac,
Can you find out how much isk was taken in and how much isk was paid out? From the way the payouts were going on that thread in the events forum, it looked like he was spitting out isk left and right and was running low on capital (hence this thread). I won't call it a scam either, but I won't be investing anything as well.
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Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2008.12.02 21:52:00 -
[132]
Info is at home, so it'll have to wait till tomorrow. |
Jacque Custeau
Knights of the Minmatar Republic
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Posted - 2008.12.03 01:22:00 -
[133]
My alts and myself don't own any bonds, but I hope the community has grown to the point where we can tell the difference between a scam and a failed business. If the business failed, I hope they follow procedures similar to Chapter 7 and liquidate to pay off what they can to their debtors. If not, then it could be a scam.
-------------------
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Amon Rhar
InterGalatica Corp
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Posted - 2008.12.03 04:57:00 -
[134]
Edited by: Amon Rhar on 03/12/2008 05:00:00
I hope that is not a farce, it would be very bad for us all.
I have noticed that Banker Lucy has been very little in the game, provided that such reports appeared.
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PaddyPaddy Nihildarnik
Gallente
aurorae pacificas
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Posted - 2008.12.03 07:22:00 -
[135]
As a stakeholder (600mil) in this I would just like for all those who are already throwing around the term "SCAM" to think carefully about what they put down here. As noted before this project will only succeed if given enough trust. Perhaps Im gullible but lets give EMF/ Banker Lucy a grace period to actually defend him/her self before we start throwning around such a volatile word.
Working in Hotel management and hospitality for over 9 years in RL I can tell you that if anything, a self confessed problem gambler is far less trustworthy at this point then someone trying to run a virtual casino.
I await EMF's reply to this situation.
Perhaps some form of security to be held by a third party might be in order, even for say 33% of invested isk. Im sure a few successful days on the casino floor should be able to cover this.
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CornerStoner
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Posted - 2008.12.03 07:47:00 -
[136]
If this turns out to be a scam the damage done to future IPOs of this type will hurt more than the ISK lost by investors. Reactions based IPOs are pretty much dead since this 40bil scam.
I would give it another day or two before we write this off.
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Frenden Dax
Dax Acquisitions
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Posted - 2008.12.03 07:50:00 -
[137]
The fact that emf/Lucy hasn't posted here once is disconcerting; while I won't stamp it as a scam until tomorrow night, the prospect looks rather grim.
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Brock Nelson
Caldari
Flux Technologies Inc
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Posted - 2008.12.03 10:20:00 -
[138]
Emf's been on the game couple of times and had adequate chance of posting in this thread.
Like it or not people, this a scam.
10% for Returning Customers |
emf
Amarr
Knights Of the Black Sun
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Posted - 2008.12.03 18:11:00 -
[139]
I have not posted because I don't know what to say... I don't want to make things worse. This is not a scam and I will be trying to keep the casino running, however do not expect the first payout to be more than 6%.
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Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2008.12.03 18:30:00 -
[140]
Originally by: emf
I have not posted because I don't know what to say... I don't want to make things worse. This is not a scam and I will be trying to keep the casino running, however do not expect the first payout to be more than 6%.
Like in the Event thread, get a third party API check to verify things and all will be well with the world. |
PaddyPaddy Nihildarnik
Gallente
aurorae pacificas
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Posted - 2008.12.04 00:52:00 -
[141]
Originally by: Kazzac Elentria
Originally by: emf
I have not posted because I don't know what to say... I don't want to make things worse. This is not a scam and I will be trying to keep the casino running, however do not expect the first payout to be more than 6%.
Like in the Event thread, get a third party API check to verify things and all will be well with the world.
Im hoping you could get either an Ebank rep or perhaps Chribba to do this.
As for not posting thats certainly a black mark against your name, again. This thread is not the events thread. You are not only dealing with potential customers but also your investors. Even a group eve mail explaining that "the problem was being looked into" would have been sufficient to cool alot of heads.
As it is silence will only prolong and manifest the concerns of your investor group. If this is not a scam then I suggest giving people more security, such as my afor mentioned idea of a third party held security bond of 33% invested isk or the immediate option of withdrawing their investment pending investigation of the allegation.
Fact of the matter is that you would at least want to consider ONE of these options. Failure to do so, in my eyes at least, would continue to make this look like a crooked deal or a shoddy run operation.
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Ricdic
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.12.04 01:28:00 -
[142]
I don't have time to chase this issue up. I have advised Chorizo I will no longer be dealing with it. Anyone else who wants to deal with both parties to determine what truly happened is welcome to do so. |
Damien Jax
Chaos Faction
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Posted - 2008.12.04 03:42:00 -
[143]
I'd be willing to do a second audit on what's going on and analyze the transactions. Free of charge.
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Brock Nelson
Caldari
Flux Technologies Inc
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Posted - 2008.12.04 04:39:00 -
[144]
And you are...? No offense but I never heard of you. Besides, I'm happy with Kazzac being the auditor, no need for a second one.
10% for Returning Customers |
Ricdic
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.12.04 05:42:00 -
[145]
It's not a second audit that needs doing, mediation between the two parties is required to determine what happened. |
Grendell
Technologies Unlimited
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Posted - 2008.12.04 06:24:00 -
[146]
I check this thread like every hour lol, just thought I'd post and say hello
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Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2008.12.04 13:27:00 -
[147]
Originally by: Ricdic
It's not a second audit that needs doing, mediation between the two parties is required to determine what happened.
The accuser has tried to contact me in game, I've given out my personal addy so we'll see where it goes.
To be frank, I'm leaning towards EMF with this one. His accounting methods in handling the payments with the Casino were goofy (in handling payments with all toons on every account) but to be honest this was well before the launch and during the discussion phase of his offering when looking at the dates. And finally the numbers added up in the end. |
Damien Jax
Chaos Faction
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Posted - 2008.12.04 14:55:00 -
[148]
Originally by: Brock Nelson
And you are...? No offense but I never heard of you. Besides, I'm happy with Kazzac being the auditor, no need for a second one.
I realize that, that's why I said I'd do it for free. It never hurts to get my feet wet and start doing it. I didn't invest in this offering, so I really have nothing to gain either way other than it'll give me a chance to offer something to the investors.
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Ricdic
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.12.04 14:58:00 -
[149]
It should really be easy to determine:
1) Did the guy win that much cash? Yes/No? (verified both parties?)
2) Did the guy request full withdrawal? Yes/No? (verified both parties?)
3) Was the withdrawal actioned? Yes/No? (verified API key either party)
But I think the whole gambling ban thing is going to complicate this whole issue, hopefully points 1-3 above will resolve it but I don't like your chances Kaz 
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Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2008.12.04 15:04:00 -
[150]
Originally by: Ricdic
It should really be easy to determine:
1) Did the guy win that much cash? Yes/No? (verified both parties?)
2) Did the guy request full withdrawal? Yes/No? (verified both parties?)
3) Was the withdrawal actioned? Yes/No? (verified API key either party)
But I think the whole gambling ban thing is going to complicate this whole issue, hopefully points 1-3 above will resolve it but I don't like your chances Kaz
Wouldn't be the first time I've put a foot in my mouth  |
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