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Banker Lucy
   |
Posted - 2008.11.18 20:38:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Banker Lucy on 18/11/2008 20:41:38
Chapter 1: Summary of EVE casino
EVE casino is EVE's first casino business, while there have been many texas hold'em and various other lottery corporations, none have house games such as blackjack. Current games are all playable in the in-game browser and include blackjack, roulette, video poker and slots. It is still in development, a flashier out of game version of the site will be finished shortly and more games such as texas hold'em will be added. Take a look at the free play area at http://evec.site40.net/session/login.php
Chapter 2: Corporate structure
After considering various options, I've decided to keep things between myself and a RL friend, ThatCPP. We will be running things and possibly hire a few bankers to help.
Chapter 3 - The Business Plan
I am to be very similar to a real life casino. Most games will be almost exact copies of games you would find in a normal casino. I believe that this is a niche area which has not been done before.
I do not expect there to be much business for the first few months as the corporation needs to grow in reputation first. However, as with real life casinos it is still a very lucrative business.
Chapter 4 - Reason For Bond
The ISK is needed for investment into marketing. It is also needed so that customers can be confident in the fact that any winnings will be paid out quickly. The roulette table has a maximum payout of 7 billion on one spin. The casino needs enough capital to absorb this volatility. The casino currently has assets of 4 billion ISK, all of which is liquid.
Chapter 5 - Full Disclosure of Risks
While in the long run, all the games in the casino would turn a profit, short term volatility could cause fluctuations in the profits. There is also a very small risk of total ruin. However, as long as the corporation still has ISK in it's wallet, the minimum of 6% per month will be paid even if there was a net loss for the month.
I know I am not known on the forums nor in game. However, I believe that the work I have put into the website is better security than most other investment opportunities. Should I not repay the bonds, all the work would go to waste as this is a business which relies heavily on reputation.
Chapter 6 - Hit By A Bus Strategy
Since both me and thatCPP has full control over the funds, should one of us get hit by the bus the bond should still be repaid.
Chapter 7 - Bond Structure
There will be 100 bonds issued for 100 million ISK per bond. Depending on interest, it will be all in one block or split into two blocks. There will be a monthly payout of a floating rate of 20% of the profits each month. This is capped at a minimum of 6% and a maximum of 13% per month.
I reserve the right to buy the bonds back at 110% of issued price and the full payout for that month.
At the end of 3 months I will make the final payout and buy the bonds back at the issue price.
Investors will also gain access to a real-time summary of the casino's revenue and net profits. This can be accessed using any web browser.
Reservations:
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cosmoray
Cosmoray Construction
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Posted - 2008.11.18 20:49:00 -
[2]
Edited by: cosmoray on 18/11/2008 20:49:50
I don't have a problem with the concept, and I am not sure if you are an ALT of the person looking for feedback in the last week or so, but there will be a big issue with trust.
1. I think you need to bring someone on board who the MD community trusts for making payments to and withdrawing.
2. The casino needs to have auditors in place that can audit it at any time to confirm payout structure
3. You need to list what the payout structures, and mechanisms will be.
4. I would also like to see a current audit.
5. I would like you to think about this business as an IPO which may be more attractive because you are an unknown
Aside from that, I am actually interested in investing.
I will reserve 500M on the basis that you sort out the above questions.
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Banker Lucy
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Posted - 2008.11.18 21:00:00 -
[3]
Thanks for the reservation, will try to meet your conditions. You are right that trust will be difficult since I am an unknown, however, as I stated above I believe that this is less risky than some other investment opportunities as the business itself serves as a form of security.
 Quote:
1. I think you need to bring someone on board who the MD community trusts for making payments to and withdrawing.
I would be very interested in someone auditing
Quote:
2. The casino needs to have auditors in place that can audit it at any time to confirm payout structure
Do you mean from a customers point of view and not investors?
Quote:
3. You need to list what the payout structures, and mechanisms will be.
20% of the profits for that month with a minimum of 6% and maximum of 13% of the issue value.
Quote:
4. I would also like to see a current audit.
Quote:
5. You need to identify what your profit split will be with the investors and your self (management fees, etc). How much the total business will be worth and how many shares will be owned by the public
The profit will not really be split, the payout per month will just be tied to the profits for that month. Full control will remain with me. This will be more of a loan than an IPO.
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TheVad
Amarr
Metalworks
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Posted - 2008.11.18 21:02:00 -
[4]
1) In addition to what cosmos mentoned I also like to see what security measures you have in place to prevent hacking and compormise of accounts? Security is #1 in any casino business as you may know. Othr then that I would be a potential investor as well.
TheVad
Project Manager & Chief Editor| www.eve-bank.net
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cosmoray
Cosmoray Construction
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Posted - 2008.11.18 21:11:00 -
[5]
1. Mechanisms for pay in and pay out for customers.
2. Also full payout win rates for all games played.
3. This is then audited so that customers are happy that they are playing with the correct odds.
4. You need full disclosure of your main(s) and other toons.
A casino could be a cash cow, but only if there is 100% customer trust that they are playing in a fair game and also that they can cash out of the casino easily.
This is the major reason I would like to see this as an IPO as a reward for investors taking a risk with you, they get a long term benefit. You will also have the share value increase.
Trust and pay (in and out) mechanisms are critical. |
CornerStoner
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Posted - 2008.11.18 21:12:00 -
[6]
Edited by: CornerStoner on 18/11/2008 21:13:19
If security and accountability can be assured I'd invest a small amount.
Edit:Reserve 100m providing conditions are met. |
Banker Lucy
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Posted - 2008.11.18 21:31:00 -
[7]
Hacking of accounts will not really be a problem since they are tied to the eve accounts. I am however worried about people exploiting bugs in the games and stuff like that. Things like the strength of the random number generator also concern me. Will work to prevent it.
The minimum is 6% per month which I think is highly competitive with other bonds without the added bonus of a higher payout should the company do well. The buy back would be for a minimum of 116% since it would include that months payout. So unless this is a scam or the casino takes a loss of the 10 billion AND around 4 billion of my own assets, the minimum return will be 118% and the maximum will be 139% total after 3 months.
Yes, it is somewhat like a loan but investors also stand to benefit from the business doing well.
I was considering more of an IPO style offering by decided on this as I feel it is simpler.
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Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2008.11.18 21:33:00 -
[8]
If you wanted, and I was willing with the last person offering a gambling offer, I'd be more than willing to use an alt slot on my main account for your third party account holder.
Using a third non involved party would go a long way towards adding some measure of security. |
Amarr Citizen 155
Tleilex Developments
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Posted - 2008.11.18 21:36:00 -
[9]
I'll be honest I haven't read the entire op but I did read one part and it causes me the most concern. Why do you need 10 billion???
1. If you spend that much on marketing then you aren't doing something right.
2. You shouldn't start with tables that pay out that much.
3. Start small, gain trust, work your way up.
4. There's really no need to start with this sort of capital when you could do the same job or better with less.
5. If the potential payout on your games is so high, wouldn't that mean that players would also be putting a lot of isk down to play? You are an unknown, Thatccp is an unknown, who is going to fork out that sort of isk? This is why you should start with smaller buyins and smaller payouts. 7 billion potential payout on day 1 is a bad idea.
You don't need 10 billion to run a service like this. If you feel you do, then post your numbers here showing why you think so. Even if they are estimates that's better than nothing.
Quote:
Ricdic (about starting ebank, July 2007): Think of it as a miniature EIB done right. I cannot see this getting anywhere near 700b any time in the future tbh.
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TheVad
Amarr
Metalworks
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Posted - 2008.11.18 21:38:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Banker Lucy
Edited by: Banker Lucy on 18/11/2008 20:41:38
Chapter 7 - Bond Structure
There will be 100 bonds issued for 100 million ISK per bond. Depending on interest, it will be all in one block or split into two blocks. There will be a monthly payout of a floating rate of 20% of the profits each month. This is capped at a minimum of 6% and a maximum of 13% per month.
Unless I am reading this wrong, the total monthly payout is 20% of total profits right? What if the profits for the month is 50m? What is the profits are negative?
Do you mean that each bond will be paid 6% interest no matter what(minimum). If 20% of the profit turns out to be greater then the 6% payout, the investor will recieve the extra bonus money up to a max of 13% return on the bond?
TheVad
Project Manager & Chief Editor| www.eve-bank.net
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Banker Lucy
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Posted - 2008.11.18 22:08:00 -
[11]
Yes, that is correct. |
cosmoray
Cosmoray Construction
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Posted - 2008.11.18 22:33:00 -
[12]
Edited by: cosmoray on 18/11/2008 22:35:24
I have always thought about a casino, and I still like the idea. I would run it kind of like EOH who do a really good job.
I would have:
1. An external website
2. Trusted bankers who you deposit with, and they set up the chips on the account
3. Trusted payout mechanism when you want to cash out chips
4. ideally the banker would deposit cash in EBank
5. external auditors who could look at the game mechanics at ANY time to confirm to the customers that the games aren't rigged
6. All games fully transparent, in terms of rules and queries
7. Casino pays bankers to deposit/pay cash
8. Casino run as an IPO, with profits shared via divs - management fee
9. Have a free play chips area and when people want to start they contact a banker in Eve
10. Limit game size to avoid a massive run on a game.
Games to offer:
1. blackjack - 50M per hand limit - casino rules
2. Slots - different ISK plays from 1000ISk - 1M ISk per credit
3. Roulette - max 20M on 1 number - 700M payout by casino (35:1)
Now, I know nothing about designing/setting up a website but that is how I would run a Eve casino.
If someone came up with the casino like above I would happily bankrole it. I would be more than happy to set up a board like EBank with people who MD trust and be happy to have MD opinions on who should be on board, and I would float the casino via IPO with managment taking a fee, and owning some of the shares
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motomysz
Militek Industries
Integrity Respect Selflessness
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Posted - 2008.11.18 22:56:00 -
[13]
Addicts like I are only concerned with one thing... how can I deposit isk so that I can start playing? |
Banker Lucy
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Posted - 2008.11.18 23:00:00 -
[14]
It's in the thread in events, send isk to me. And amarr, the 7 billion isk in one spin is the example. Even if I were to reduce the limit to 100 mil it would still be 3.5 bil in one spin. |
cosmoray
Cosmoray Construction
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Posted - 2008.11.18 23:07:00 -
[15]
thread link to events?
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Banker Lucy
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Posted - 2008.11.19 01:53:00 -
[16]
Had my first high roller come to play today, took 2 billion isk off me on roulette. Statically speaking the casino should have turned a profit of around 2 billion based on the number of times he played but it ended up in a 2 billion isk loss.
Seems like a crappy thing to tell potential investors but over the course of 3 months things will even out. |
Brock Nelson
Caldari
Flux Technologies Inc
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Posted - 2008.11.19 02:10:00 -
[17]
I might be a potential investor if you were to make your code available for the auditor to view. |
Amon Rhar
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Posted - 2008.11.19 03:31:00 -
[18]
Reserve 100m for me.
I wonder if the past 3 months and if the casino is flourishing, we can continue the investments?
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Banker Lucy
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Posted - 2008.11.19 05:10:00 -
[19]
Still looking for someone to audit. |
Brock Nelson
Caldari
Flux Technologies Inc
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Posted - 2008.11.19 05:54:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Brock Nelson on 19/11/2008 05:55:06
I would do it but considering how much you're asking, my inexperience with audits and my lack of rep on MD...
Contact either Shar Tegral or Kazuo Ishiguro, however I do believe they require a fee
Put me down for 100 mil, I know its not much but casino scares me ;). Pending audit of course
10% for Returning Customers |
Banker Lucy
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Posted - 2008.11.19 06:01:00 -
[21]
Why would you want to check the coding though? My coding is so ugly it's kinda embarrasing  .
If it is to ensure that the reported casino profits are accurate would it not be easier for me to give the auditor my full API so that he can check the journal logs? The coding would be pointless for this purpose as I can freely modify the database without it.
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Brock Nelson
Caldari
Flux Technologies Inc
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Posted - 2008.11.19 06:06:00 -
[22]
Maybe but if you're going to have bankers and auditors on your team, they need to be able to inspect your game code. This is to ensure that players are making their winnings fairly as well ensuring that you don't code something that ends up giving the player a chance to 'break the bank'
10% for Returning Customers |
Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
Zzz
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Posted - 2008.11.19 10:42:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Banker Lucy
Why would you want to check the coding though? My coding is so ugly it's kinda embarrasing .
If it is to ensure that the reported casino profits are accurate would it not be easier for me to give the auditor my full API so that he can check the journal logs? The coding would be pointless for this purpose as I can freely modify the database without it.
The main problem here is that you could quite easily be in possession of a secret alt account, and someone like the high roller you mentioned a few posts back might just happen to turn up and 'legitimately' win lots of isk from your casino.
I wouldn't completely trust this unless- The code was audited by a trusted third party who understood it perfectly.
- The code was hosted by a trusted third party, preventing you from modifying the live version without going through them.
- Every update triggered a fresh complete audit of the code.
This may seem unreasonably harsh, but with a line or two of code you could very easily tip the odds in favour of a character of your choice, a la Casablanca.
---
Can't afford that BPO? Look here.
20:1 mineral compression
The EVE f@h team |
Lady Amnesia
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Posted - 2008.11.19 12:23:00 -
[24]
Love the idea! Put me down for 500m (pending audit). Make this properly and I see no reason for it not to be well received by the greater Eve community. |
Meg Powers
Caldari
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.11.19 12:51:00 -
[25]
Interesting idea and I'll reserve 100M pending outcome of audits and discussions regarding code in use.
My view is that without code that is untouchable without additional reviews then how can we know the players have a fair chance (and the investors a fair chance to win their interest)?
Riddle me that and I'll bring more isk, but 100M will do for now,
Meg
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cosmoray
Cosmoray Construction
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Posted - 2008.11.19 13:09:00 -
[26]
Code has to be accessible ANYTIME to an auditor to see that the game is fair.
It is also the only way you will keep customers. |
Brock Nelson
Caldari
Flux Technologies Inc
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Posted - 2008.11.19 13:39:00 -
[27]
What programming language btw?
10% for Returning Customers |
Banker Lucy
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Posted - 2008.11.19 15:22:00 -
[28]
It's all in PHP. Kuzuo would you be interested in auditing? I would like an audit of the coding so that the general public can see that the games are not rigged. However for the purpose of this bond I'm afraid it would not help. I don't see a way to restrict myself access of the database. All players balances and tracking of profits are stored in the mysql database which I can modify, it also does not log changes.
I think the best way would be to keep track of the isk in-game. I could disclose all my alts and the auditor could keep track of my wallet. Not foolproof but better than keeping track of the code imo.
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Cinta Verick
Amarr
4th Dimension Investments
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Posted - 2008.11.19 15:28:00 -
[29]
Pending the audit I'd like to take a punt on this IPO
Reserve me 2 bonds (200m)
Thanks
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Amon Rhar
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Posted - 2008.11.19 15:34:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
The code was hosted by a trusted third party, preventing you from modifying the live version without going through them.Pending audit
Well I have a web hosting and can host the casino, since I have no relationship with him and who also does not like card games and lucky, then in any way manipulate the results and I can tell here in the forum publicly on any change as he does on the bench or in code.
From nothing mind the casino hosted elsewhere if there was a deferential auditor of code to see if he has not created any page that modifies the database out.
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Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2008.11.19 16:27:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Banker Lucy
Edited by: Banker Lucy on 19/11/2008 15:37:28
It's all in PHP. Kazuo would you be interested in auditing? I would like an audit of the coding so that the general public can see that the games are not rigged. However for the purpose of this bond I'm afraid it would not help. I don't see a way to restrict myself access of the database. All players balances and tracking of profits are stored in the mysql database which I can modify, it also does not log changes.
I think the best way would be to keep track of the isk in-game. I could disclose all my alts and the auditor could keep track of my wallet. Not foolproof but better than keeping track of the code imo.
Or like mentioned before, you use a trusted third party for the purposes of the Bank. This person takes deposits, issues chips, redeems chips, and collects on accounts. |
cosmoray
Cosmoray Construction
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Posted - 2008.11.19 16:37:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Kazzac Elentria
Originally by: Banker Lucy
Edited by: Banker Lucy on 19/11/2008 15:37:28
It's all in PHP. Kazuo would you be interested in auditing? I would like an audit of the coding so that the general public can see that the games are not rigged. However for the purpose of this bond I'm afraid it would not help. I don't see a way to restrict myself access of the database. All players balances and tracking of profits are stored in the mysql database which I can modify, it also does not log changes.
I think the best way would be to keep track of the isk in-game. I could disclose all my alts and the auditor could keep track of my wallet. Not foolproof but better than keeping track of the code imo.
Or like mentioned before, you use a trusted third party for the purposes of the Bank. This person takes deposits, issues chips, redeems chips, and collects on accounts.
Agree with Kazzac, I think there ISK and the person running the code needs to be separated.
Is there a hosting web casino like Poker Mavens?
Poker Mavens allows you to set up poker games for you and friends. Its a great system.
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
Zzz
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Posted - 2008.11.19 17:35:00 -
[33]
The only way I could be of any use to you would be to act either as an occasional auditor, checking that payouts were managed correctly, or by managing all the isk transfers for you (which would be too much of a burden for me). I know a few tiny bits of SQL, and can work competently with spreadsheets, but I have very little knowledge of how any sort of computer code works. I would probably not be competent to audit your code.
If you can find a trusted person to act as teller and/or as host for the database & application, I think you'll be alright. By the way, I have another idea you may in interested in pursuing. |
Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2008.11.19 18:46:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
If you can find a trusted person to act as teller and/or as host for the database & application, I think you'll be alright. By the way, I have another idea you may in interested in pursuing.
Like I said before. Id be more than willing to act as teller for you. Create an alt, and then a seperate ebank account for it.
I have the time as of late |
Skylar Vodkabar
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Posted - 2008.11.19 18:53:00 -
[35]
People, Casions always make profits and the people who always play the games lose. Just look at real life. |
emf
Amarr
Knights Of the Black Sun
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Posted - 2008.11.19 19:50:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Amon Rhar
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
The code was hosted by a trusted third party, preventing you from modifying the live version without going through them.Pending audit
Well I have a web hosting and can host the casino, since I have no relationship with him and who also does not like card games and lucky, then in any way manipulate the results and I can tell here in the forum publicly on any change as he does on the bench or in code.
From nothing mind the casino hosted elsewhere if there was a deferential auditor of code to see if he has not created any page that modifies the database out.
My main here (Banker Lucy). I've already paid for the web hosting (Another reason why I would not want to ruin my reputation). I feel that this would also needlessly complicate things.
Kazuo, how do I contact you? As stated above I do not see how having the banker as a third party and having my full API audited is any different. Someone else being in charge of hosting would make things very difficult for me as I am still working on improving the site. Also, I couldn't find any third party software like poker mavens.
Things which could be audited:
1. Full API for me and my 3 alt accounts. To ensure that I am not playing with a secret alt and to audit the wallet journals to ensure that money is not being secretly taken out.
2. Access to the mysql table which is the backbone of the website.
3. I could create some sort of text dump to log every change in the database.
Things investors will have access to:
1. Real time information on the exact profits per game in the casino.
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Amarr Citizen 155
Tleilex Developments
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Posted - 2008.11.20 01:52:00 -
[37]
Originally by: emf
My main here (Banker Lucy).
Although it was fairly obvious, you should have posted with your main when Cosmo first brought up that point of you being an unknown in his first response. Just wanted to point that out since it happens a lot on new offerings. |
emf
Amarr
Knights Of the Black Sun
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Posted - 2008.11.20 02:30:00 -
[38]
Well I figured I'm an unknown either way. (except for those who know me from eve online hold'em  )
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eliaja
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Posted - 2008.11.20 03:43:00 -
[39]
souds god to mee i woudl just like to know who are the people that will be runing the casino with you as well as the bankers which i think is important once i can seee that i wouldnt mine investning 100mil |
emf
Amarr
Knights Of the Black Sun
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Posted - 2008.11.20 05:05:00 -
[40]
Just me and thatcpp for now. Don't see the point in extra overheads until we at least have a decent customer base.
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Johnny Rockefeller
Builders League United
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Posted - 2008.11.20 07:40:00 -
[41]
I don't plan on investing (can't afford it), but do you have a general estimate of when this will be going live for 'real' isk? It looks like a lot of fun, I'll probably be making your investors happy by losing all my money in it :D
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emf
Amarr
Knights Of the Black Sun
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Posted - 2008.11.20 10:39:00 -
[42]
It is already up, http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=920018 |
Wishdokkta CEO
Tilt Station
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Posted - 2008.11.20 12:44:00 -
[43]
Okay, having read all this thread I am happy to throw my hat in.
Pending the satisfactory completion of ray's points I would like 1 bond @ 100 million.
Cheers |
Elder Langley
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Posted - 2008.11.20 13:21:00 -
[44]
I would like to reserve 100m pending an audit.
I would much rather this be an IPO with a structure for dividends and reinvested profit. If it were, I would invest more money into it.
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Johnny Rockefeller
Builders League United
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Posted - 2008.11.20 15:48:00 -
[45]
Originally by: emf
It is already up, http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=920018
Ah, thank you.
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Icylce
SideOfEvil
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Posted - 2008.11.20 16:02:00 -
[46]
I'd like to reserve 200mil |
Garia666
Amarr
T.H.U.G L.I.F.E
White Core
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Posted - 2008.11.20 16:12:00 -
[47]
if you get chribba to put his name on this ill bet it will be an success..
www.garia.net |
MailDeadDrop
Archon Industries
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Posted - 2008.11.20 16:12:00 -
[48]
I am a 20+ year software professional, although my experience with php is limited. I am willing to review the casino's code under the following conditions:
1. I will never participate as a player in any of the games, nor will any of my alts. This is to preclude even the appearance of a conflict of interest. I am willing to have the financial auditor review my full APIs (2 accounts currently) to confirm this at any time.
2. I will not have access rights to the underlying production mySQL database. I will review the design of the database however, if it is made available in a form *other* than the production database.
3. When I find flaws in the system, their existence and my evaluation of their potential impact will be made publicly available immediately (to forestall fraud). I will communicate the *details* of the flaw only to the player operating casino.
I am open to suggestions for other conditions. My attempt is to establish myself as a qualified disinterested party.
I haven't decided how I wish to be compensated for my code review, and I'm open to suggestions.
MDD
Jump Clones: 8M and NO corp switching |
Shar Tegral
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 16:29:00 -
[49]
Just thought I should point out that the OP contacted me for doing some auditing work on this Casino. However I'm already under retainer for another recently started Eve Gaming Service and I think working for two such entities would constitute a conflict of interest. Anything else I might say at this point would likely be unduly (and unfairly) detrimental to the op and his project. Suffice to say I see nothing more here worth my time or input.
To Shar -verb:
1 - To say what you mean.
2 - To say what it means.
3 - To say something mean. |
Lord Gabe
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Posted - 2008.11.20 18:15:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Lord Gabe on 20/11/2008 18:15:28
I'll invest 100 mill too. maybe more when i have some sale go through. |
emf
Amarr
Knights Of the Black Sun
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Posted - 2008.11.21 02:26:00 -
[51]
MailDeaddrop, the problem with that is that if you're an unknown as well I don't think it would help investor confidence much. I'm trying to contact kazuo.
Is there another auditor you guys can recommend?
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MailDeadDrop
Archon Industries
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Posted - 2008.11.21 16:00:00 -
[52]
emf, I think perhaps my offer was misunderstood. I do NOT offer to be the financial auditor. I have neither the knowledge nor the reputation (as you stated) to fill that role. What I offer is the technical skill to vet the code for errors and shenanigans, something for which Kazuo has already admitted he feels inadequate. Shar has already recused himself. I dunno if other potential financial auditors (Kazzac?) have the technical foundation to vet the code.
As for being an unknown (or under-publicized), you've got to start somewhere...
MDD |
Kazzac Elentria
|
Posted - 2008.11.21 16:22:00 -
[53]
Originally by: MailDeadDrop
emf, I think perhaps my offer was misunderstood. I do NOT offer to be the financial auditor. I have neither the knowledge nor the reputation (as you stated) to fill that role. What I offer is the technical skill to vet the code for errors and shenanigans, something for which Kazuo has already admitted he feels inadequate. Shar has already recused himself. I dunno if other potential financial auditors (Kazzac?) have the technical foundation to vet the code.
As for being an unknown (or under-publicized), you've got to start somewhere...
MDD
I know enough PHP to be dangerous, in so far as customizing things like CMS systems. Perhaps with someone else who was more knowledgeable than me. |
emf
Amarr
Knights Of the Black Sun
|
Posted - 2008.11.21 16:33:00 -
[54]
Perhaps both of you could do the audit then. How do we get it started.
|
Catherine LeBatas
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.11.21 17:02:00 -
[55]
I'll reserve 300Mil, pending audit |
Amaandia
Third Return Inc.
Blue Sun Trust
|
Posted - 2008.11.22 16:07:00 -
[56]
Reserve 100m
|
libel brian
Amarr
Targeted Logistics and Manufacturing
|
Posted - 2008.11.23 00:10:00 -
[57]
plz reserve 1 bond @ 100 mil
|
emf
Amarr
Knights Of the Black Sun
|
Posted - 2008.11.23 03:34:00 -
[58]
Still trying to get a hold of kazzac, then we can get things started. He said that he would be able to do an audit over this weekend.
|
Kazzac Elentria
|
Posted - 2008.11.23 05:34:00 -
[59]
emf
I'll be available tomorrow, look for me in game in the afternoon. I'll have time set aside tomorrow and all day Monday.
Today my time was....interesting to say the least. |
Cheopis
One Stop Mining Shop
|
Posted - 2008.11.23 09:53:00 -
[60]
Two things:
1) I did not read the entire thread, but I did see that there was some danger of a lucky strike folding you almost immediately. Simple solution, limit stakes, or limit the odds/payouts. If the house has been having a run of bad luck, stop that activity for a while and figure out what is wrong.
2) Any gamblers should agree to submitting to an API audit by whoever is performing spotchecks, prior to any payout in excess of <x> isks, where <x> is a number found to be reasonable to you and your investors.
|
emf
Amarr
Knights Of the Black Sun
|
Posted - 2008.11.24 00:56:00 -
[61]
There is a maximum bet of 100 million.
Getting customers to submit to an API check could be an option, the logs of his play could also be audited.
Still waiting for the audit, profits are at around 4 bil now, payout would be at 10% if the bond had been running from last month.
|
Kazzac Elentria
|
Posted - 2008.11.24 02:45:00 -
[62]
Just to let everyone know that EMF has contacted me for a financial audit. Once we get things sorted (we've been playing evemail tag for the last few days ) I'll be presenting a full report within a day or two.
Lucky for everyone, it pays to be able to play at work  |
Bert Harringford
The Beer Barons
|
Posted - 2008.11.24 06:10:00 -
[63]
I'll reserve 10 bonds (1 bill), pending audit
|
Lord Gabe
|
Posted - 2008.11.24 10:06:00 -
[64]
I lose my internet tommorrow for upto 15 days as i'm transferring to a new ISP who do I send my ISK to..... also is there still any unreserved shares? which if i can get some sales through today I may purchase etc before i lose my connection.
|
Crassus Rose
|
Posted - 2008.11.24 15:43:00 -
[65]
Edited by: Crassus Rose on 24/11/2008 15:43:52
I would like to reserve 2 bonds for 200 million.
|
PaddyPaddy Nihildarnik
Gallente
aurorae pacificas
|
Posted - 2008.11.24 16:23:00 -
[66]
Originally by: cosmoray
Edited by: cosmoray on 18/11/2008 22:35:24
I have always thought about a casino, and I still like the idea. I would run it kind of like EOH who do a really good job.
I would have:
1. An external website
2. Trusted bankers who you deposit with, and they set up the chips on the account
3. Trusted payout mechanism when you want to cash out chips
4. ideally the banker would deposit cash in EBank
5. external auditors who could look at the game mechanics at ANY time to confirm to the customers that the games aren't rigged
6. All games fully transparent, in terms of rules and queries
7. Casino pays bankers to deposit/pay cash
8. Casino run as an IPO, with profits shared via divs - management fee
9. Have a free play chips area and when people want to start they contact a banker in Eve
10. Limit game size to avoid a massive run on a game.
Games to offer:
1. blackjack - 50M per hand limit - casino rules
2. Slots - different ISK plays from 1000ISk - 1M ISk per credit
3. Roulette - max 20M on 1 number - 700M payout by casino (35:1)
Now, I know nothing about designing/setting up a website but that is how I would run a Eve casino.
If someone came up with the casino like above I would happily bankrole it. I would be more than happy to set up a board like EBank with people who MD trust and be happy to have MD opinions on who should be on board, and I would float the casino via IPO with managment taking a fee, and owning some of the shares
This sounds like very reasonable advice.
Reserving 3 bonds (300mil) pending audit.
|
emf
Amarr
Knights Of the Black Sun
|
Posted - 2008.11.24 19:57:00 -
[67]
Thanks for rounding it off to 5b  . If it's ok with everyone I'll split it into 2 blocks of 5b so that we can start once the audit is finished?
|
Amaandia
Third Return Inc.
Blue Sun Trust
|
Posted - 2008.11.24 20:03:00 -
[68]
I'll take 4 more, so a total of 500m.
|
Banker Lucy
|
Posted - 2008.11.24 20:18:00 -
[69]
Lord gabe, there are still 44 more bonds.(4.4b) You could send the isk now but the coupon will only be calculated from the start of the first block. I am finally in contact with kazzac so this should launch by midweek if there are no delays from the reservations.
|
CornerStoner
|
Posted - 2008.11.24 21:46:00 -
[70]
Since there are plenty of bonds still available I'd like to up my reservation from 100m to 300m.
|
Lord Gabe
|
Posted - 2008.11.24 23:44:00 -
[71]
500m sent
|
Handelsschnucki
|
Posted - 2008.11.25 00:57:00 -
[72]
Im in for 500m.
|
Mickey Simon
Noir.
|
Posted - 2008.11.25 08:31:00 -
[73]
I'll reserve 1 bond please (100M) pending audit.
Meanwhile, on the other side of town . . . |
Kazzac Elentria
|
Posted - 2008.11.25 17:56:00 -
[74]
Reserved
*just posting an update that Im almost done with this audit (quite a bit of transactional information to process) and will be posting results tonight or first thing in the morning. |
emf
Amarr
Knights Of the Black Sun
|
Posted - 2008.11.26 21:31:00 -
[75]
Kazzac says he'll be done by today so I will issue bonds on saturday night US TZ. (29th November) Please send isk to Banker Lucy by then.
Bonds issued on saturday will be part of the first block. Second block will be issued when the rest of the bonds get reserved.
|
Elder Langley
Langley Trading and Holdings
|
Posted - 2008.11.26 22:21:00 -
[76]
Thank you for the update EMF.
I assume that if we wish to buy more bonds than we reserve that would not be a problem right?
|
emf
Amarr
Knights Of the Black Sun
|
Posted - 2008.11.26 22:51:00 -
[77]
Nope, I'll just launch it with whatever isk I've recieved on saturday night as the first block. The rest will be the second block.
|
Sandrila
|
Posted - 2008.11.26 22:58:00 -
[78]
so i take 2 bounds for 200 mios
pls evemail
this is my first transaction so need some help :)
|
Kazzac Elentria
|
Posted - 2008.11.27 01:56:00 -
[79]
Was contacted by EMF to perform an audit regarding his proposed launch and here are the results and information regarding the information provided to me.
EMF provided 4 APIs for 4 accounts under his control. 1 full API specifically for the Banker Lucy (Casino CEO) and 3 limited for his remaining 3 accounts.
Account 1
Three toons
jhon robinson part of Knights of the Black Sun - Purchased in Sept of this year
Banker Lucy - CEO Alt for Casino CEO
sdfghh - throw away alt with no history
Account 2
Three toons
emf part of Knights of the Black Sun - OPs main
Harall - Industrial Alt with limited forum history
Asoka Veron - Industrial Alt with limited forum history
Account 3
Three toons
hps45 part of Knights of the Black Sun - PvP skirmish with no history
rehctackluh - Skirmish alt, limited training and nub corp
KOBS corp - Knights of the Black Sun recruitment history, POD accouncements, PVP banter
Account 4
Two toons
Akar StarSeeker part of the Knight of the Black Sun - Lengthy employment history, was a purchased character as of 3-31-08. Forum posts indicate this as it has zero history and then combat banter after the 3-31 date
Metal Freack - Throw away alt, no history
Knights of the Black Sun Corporation
16 member count
Was a Pirate Corporation operating out of 0.0 space
Has been involved in various alliances, nothing too note worthy
Now involved in Faction Warfare
Account Ledger
Given access to the transactional data from Account 1, and also the casino logs I spent some time pouring over the books looking for inconsistancies and or confirmations.
It is stated that Thatccp is operating as a joint partner. This is confirmed by early injections of isk into the bank account totalling 1.5b and 1.6b. There are later withdraws in the amounts of 1.7b and 800m as the banker account gains influx of operating capital from other sources (players depositing isk). So as it stands the partner is still owed 700m of capital according to the transactions I was given access to.
Also of note is transactional history regarding his main, EMF. There are very slow withdrawls in the amounts ranging from 525m to 100m. All totaled, at the end of the transaction log emf owes the banker 922m for the books to balance correctly regarding starting capital and operating capital during this test period. There is also activity at the end of the log regarding a donation of 1.9b isk to the Banker Lucy account and then a contract acceptance of 1.95b later from the Corporation Re-Tek. This was noted as a Dreadnaught purchase using casino profits by emf.
There are also various injections and withdrawls from some of his other toons on the various accounts, namely Akar Starseeker (owing 201m to the banker). Also noted is the throw away alt sdfghh has various transfers between it and emf.
As of this audit, the banker account only has 143k isk with the bulk of the isk being contracted away in the previous mentioned transfer from EMF to Bank to Re-Tek. However it should be noted that if you assume the personal purchases for the various toons plus the accidental payout from Video Poker (bug which has since been corrected) with an injection of 1b in capital, the casino was able to turn around and profit to the amount of 2b minus any outstanding liabilities that I may not be privy too and minus the outstanding liability to Thatccp.
The total profit amount would have been higher at 2.7b but there was an accidental overpay to a client during cashout.
I'd post the nitty gritty, but I'll let emf explain his numbers.
I have been told that once the Casino goes live, accounts will be zeroed out, all liabilities cashed out and transferred so that the operation starts with a zero account slate. The accounting looks funny because it seems emf was using any and all alts to either handle cash outs, or pay ins. |
Kazzac Elentria
|
Posted - 2008.11.27 01:56:00 -
[80]
I was given no access to the partner Thatccp and despite having a single Toon in the KOB corporation, it does not have jr accountant access so I was not privy to the corporate logs either.
There is residual account activity on the sdfghh alt with a number of purchases and transfers to his pvp alts, including 2 GTC sales. With the accounting information in front of me that I have access too it does not appear that any of this isk went to, or came from the actual casino operation. |
Kazzac Elentria
|
Posted - 2008.11.27 01:57:00 -
[81]
And on a more personal note... I hate the character limit on the forums. |
Banker Lucy
|
Posted - 2008.11.27 02:09:00 -
[82]
Thanks kazzac, bonds will be issued this saturday. Please send isk by then.
As kazzac has mentioned in his audit, the casino has made a profit of 2 billion isk in the week or so it has been operating. It would have made 700 million more if I had not made a mistake in the payout and another 1 billion isk or so more if video poker had not been broken.
However, most of the profits have been coming from one or two high rollers. Nonetheless, 13% payout (1.3 bil in profits a week) for the first month should be easy if things keep up.
|
Brock Nelson
Caldari
Flux Technologies Inc
|
Posted - 2008.11.27 02:51:00 -
[83]
I guess first pay out is end of Dec right?
I'm gonna send 200 mil (up 100 mil from my 100 mil reservation)
10% for Returning Customers |
Banker Lucy
|
Posted - 2008.11.27 03:00:00 -
[84]
Payout will be on the 29th of december, 29th of january and 1st of march.
|
Detaro Gantis
|
Posted - 2008.11.27 05:03:00 -
[85]
ISK sent. |
XrayZII
VXR Heavy Industries
|
Posted - 2008.11.27 06:35:00 -
[86]
reserving 5 bonds @500m.
pls convo so we can have a little chat :)
|
Cinta Verick
Amarr
4th Dimension Investments
|
Posted - 2008.11.27 08:23:00 -
[87]
ISK Sent - Good Luck
|
Garia666
Amarr
T.H.U.G L.I.F.E
White Core
|
Posted - 2008.11.27 15:29:00 -
[88]
any bonds lefT?
www.garia.net |
emf
Amarr
Knights Of the Black Sun
|
Posted - 2008.11.27 19:56:00 -
[89]
Yes, 28 left (2.8 bil)
|
Amon Rhar
InterGalatica Corp
|
Posted - 2008.11.27 20:21:00 -
[90]
Isk Sent.
|
Iyana Arienall
|
Posted - 2008.11.27 20:59:00 -
[91]
i would like to reserve 3 bonds for 300m pls
Cheers,
-Iyana
|
Syn Exec
Synergy Evolved
|
Posted - 2008.11.27 22:45:00 -
[92]
Reserve 3 bonds for me (300mill), please. I am out of town right now, with no access to eve-client, but will be back soon
|
Amon Rhar
InterGalatica Corp
|
Posted - 2008.11.28 03:42:00 -
[93]
Banke Lucy please refresh my name on the list of paid.
|
Banker Lucy
|
Posted - 2008.11.28 05:31:00 -
[94]
Sorry bout that. Still 22 bonds left.
|
Jamis Bakar
Shade Holding Corp
Shade Underworld
|
Posted - 2008.11.28 08:01:00 -
[95]
Will take 10 bonds.
|
Dregek
Pilots Of Honour
Axiom Empire
|
Posted - 2008.11.28 08:04:00 -
[96]
Edited by: Dregek on 28/11/2008 08:04:53
will take 2 bonds (200mil)
|
Garia666
Amarr
T.H.U.G L.I.F.E
White Core
|
Posted - 2008.11.28 12:25:00 -
[97]
Edited by: Garia666 on 28/11/2008 12:26:06
10 bonds then .. ill send it when i get back @ home..
www.garia.net |
Mickey Simon
Noir.
|
Posted - 2008.11.28 12:34:00 -
[98]
Isk sent.
Meanwhile, on the other side of town . . . |
Garia666
Amarr
T.H.U.G L.I.F.E
White Core
|
Posted - 2008.11.28 12:42:00 -
[99]
all should be sold now
www.garia.net |
Icylce
SideOfEvil
|
Posted - 2008.11.28 13:56:00 -
[100]
Iskies sent
|
Catherine LeBatas
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.11.28 15:38:00 -
[101]
Funds transferred
|
Estrith
Rearden Steele
|
Posted - 2008.11.28 17:26:00 -
[102]
reserve 1 bond for me plz.
|
Banker Lucy
|
Posted - 2008.11.28 20:15:00 -
[103]
Sorry esrith, it's full. Don't send isk, I'll contact you if anyone drops out.
Full, don't send isk from this point unless you have reserved.******
Please resize signature to the maximum allowed filesize of 400 x 120 pixels. Navigator |
libel brian
Amarr
Targeted Logistics and Manufacturing
|
Posted - 2008.11.29 04:50:00 -
[104]
my reserve has been paid 100mil sent
|
Banker Lucy
|
Posted - 2008.11.30 02:03:00 -
[105]
Sorry, I must have forgotten to paste it.
Those who have reserved please pay up by tonight. 4 more hours, thanks.
|
libel brian
Amarr
Targeted Logistics and Manufacturing
|
Posted - 2008.11.30 02:55:00 -
[106]
TY for your quick reply
|
emf
Amarr
Knights Of the Black Sun
|
Posted - 2008.11.30 08:57:00 -
[107]
Bond is officially issued today. Payment in a month (29th december)
11 bonds were not paid for and are now open.
|
Syn Exec
Synergy Evolved
|
Posted - 2008.12.01 00:30:00 -
[108]
I am still abroad, but i've organized for a corpmate to pay for me. He will post here when he does, should be later today (US timezone)
Sorry for the delay
|
PaddyPaddy Nihildarnik
Gallente
aurorae pacificas
|
Posted - 2008.12.01 04:42:00 -
[109]
Sorry reserving/ paying for my original 3 shares + 3 more.
Total transfer 600mil (6 shares)
Was away at a vineyard festival all weekend. 
|
Banker Lucy
|
Posted - 2008.12.01 09:04:00 -
[110]
So that would leave 2 bonds?
|
Dregek
Pilots Of Honour
Axiom Empire
|
Posted - 2008.12.01 09:21:00 -
[111]
Edited by: Dregek on 01/12/2008 09:22:54
would like to purchase a 3rd bond please on top of the 2 i already have, isk sent
|
Giamilton
Synergy Evolved
Strength in Numbers.
|
Posted - 2008.12.01 16:50:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Syn Exec
Reserve 3 bonds for me (300mill), please. I am out of town right now, with no access to eve-client, but will be back soon
I am paying banker Lucy 300 mil on behalf of Syn Exec.
|
Banker Lucy
|
Posted - 2008.12.01 17:41:00 -
[113]
Edited by: Banker Lucy on 01/12/2008 17:45:38
So that leaves 1 bond.  Guess I'll just buy it myself. Thanks everyone, report will be on the 29th. Also create an account on www.evecasino.org if you want to keep track of profits, will get that working soon.
edit: Ooops, that's 2 bonds left which i'll buy myself.
|
Vherinda
Vherinda Trading
|
Posted - 2008.12.01 18:17:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Banker Lucy
Edited by: Banker Lucy on 01/12/2008 17:45:38
So that leaves 1 bond. Guess I'll just buy it myself. Thanks everyone, report will be on the 29th. Also create an account on www.evecasino.org if you want to keep track of profits, will get that working soon.
edit: Ooops, that's 2 bonds left which i'll buy myself.
can i have those two if you dont mind? :)
|
EBANK Ricdic
Eve-Tech Savings n Loans
|
Posted - 2008.12.02 04:49:00 -
[115]
Read here guys, your investments may be gone
|
Detaro Gantis
|
Posted - 2008.12.02 04:50:00 -
[116]
Edited by: Detaro Gantis on 02/12/2008 04:50:18
This makes me feel uneasy and needs to be sorted out.
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=920018&page=1#23 |
Brock Nelson
Caldari
Flux Technologies Inc
|
Posted - 2008.12.02 05:10:00 -
[117]
Edited by: Brock Nelson on 02/12/2008 05:10:03
Nice, who made the accusation? The third party auditor should verify that first before going public with this information.
10% for Returning Customers |
Ricdics
Tleilex Developments
|
Posted - 2008.12.02 05:49:00 -
[118]
Check that thread, just updated a short while ago.
A lot of the data can't be truly verified, but I got what I could.
Coupled with the fact that the website was offline directly following the event occurance would indicate it highly likely that this did transpire.
Even if the banker wasn't scamming, just teaching him a lesson I would still question him rigging the casino to prove a point which is very concerning. |
Kazzac Elentria
|
Posted - 2008.12.02 05:50:00 -
[119]
Coming in here to verify what Ricdic has said.
Originally by: Ricdics
Followup :
Screenshot
Obviously being a text based website it's incredibly easy to doctor this.
As per the above user it is correct that login to the site is no longer operational for anyone.
Chat Log
I requested Chorizo Chorizo provide this chatlog and email it to me after the screenshot wouldn't suffice. In his favor the chatlog had been sent to me within about 1.5 minutes of request.
Whilst again it could have been doctored it would have been done quite fast.
Finally, I was given Chorizo Chorizo full API data and I can confirm his claim that he has given up to 8-12b to Banker Lucy and EMF over the past few weeks in various transactions.
Having been given the API data for Banker Lucy during the audit that Chorizo deposited the amount listed above.
As stated in the audit report I was told by emf that all accounts would be settled before the start of actual business.
Obviously and unfortunately they have not.
I can say however, that the total winnings amount listed in the screenshot was NOT his balance on the casino website at the moment of the audit. It was a little over 3b as he had lost a sizable amount playing roulette.
Obviously the site could have been doctored as well, but as I stated earlier.. Im no code monkey. |
Brock Nelson
Caldari
Flux Technologies Inc
|
Posted - 2008.12.02 05:51:00 -
[120]
Disappointing.
Lucy needs to answer to these charges, because if players of the casino sees that the games are rigged then no profit will be coming in. Either way, distrust has already been placed on Eve Casino and I think that investment needs to be returned.
10% for Returning Customers |
Kazzac Elentria
|
Posted - 2008.12.02 05:53:00 -
[121]
I'd also like to state that I still have the casino txt logs for all games, chip adds, withdrawls |
Brock Nelson
Caldari
Flux Technologies Inc
|
Posted - 2008.12.02 05:55:00 -
[122]
Edited by: Brock Nelson on 02/12/2008 05:56:21
Seeing how Lucy/emf hasn't made the site for investors to review profit/loss, could you summarize them for us? Basically, I'm looking to see total income, total payout, net income/loss.
10% for Returning Customers |
Kazzac Elentria
|
Posted - 2008.12.02 06:10:00 -
[123]
With the person in specific I'll just go ahead and post it, since its pretty short and Im amazed I still have access to it. (second thing I tried after API data once I saw this thread blow up)
Sun 23 Nov 08 19:45:57 -0600 Changed: chorizo chorizo500000000 withdraw:
Mon 24 Nov 08 13:12:56 -0600 Changed: chorizo chorizo220000000 withdraw:
Wed 26 Nov 08 14:39:03 -0600 Changed: chorizo chorizo900000000 withdraw:
Wed 26 Nov 08 14:51:42 -0600 Changed: chorizo chorizo800000000 withdraw:
Wed 26 Nov 08 14:53:37 -0600 Changed: chorizo chorizo140000000 withdraw:
Thu 27 Nov 08 16:46:47 -0600 Changed: chorizo chorizo1500000000 withdraw:
Thu 27 Nov 08 16:53:28 -0600 Changed: chorizo chorizo-5670000000 withdraw:
Fri 28 Nov 08 14:06:25 -0600 Changed: chorizo chorizo1500000000 withdraw:
Fri 28 Nov 08 14:16:12 -0600 Changed: chorizo chorizo400000000 withdraw:
Fri 28 Nov 08 14:20:07 -0600 Changed: chorizo chorizo1000000000 withdraw:
Fri 28 Nov 08 14:35:54 -0600 Changed: chorizo chorizo600000000 withdraw:
Fri 28 Nov 08 14:48:15 -0600 Changed: chorizo chorizo1000000000 withdraw:
Fri 28 Nov 08 14:52:48 -0600 Changed: chorizo chorizo1500000000 withdraw:
Fri 28 Nov 08 14:55:08 -0600 Changed: chorizo chorizo2000000000 withdraw:
Fri 28 Nov 08 15:00:28 -0600 Changed: chorizo chorizo1800000000 withdraw:
Fri 28 Nov 08 15:20:00 -0600 Changed: chorizo chorizo130000000 withdraw:
Sun 30 Nov 08 17:37:18 -0600 Changed: chorizo chorizo400000000 withdraw:
Mon 01 Dec 08 11:53:02 -0600 Changed: chorizo chorizo800000000 withdraw:
Mon 01 Dec 08 12:13:22 -0600 Changed: chorizo chorizo800000000 withdraw:
Mon 01 Dec 08 22:37:20 -0600 Changed: chorizo chorizo-12060000000 withdraw:
I think I posted what information I was given on the 27th.... so I'm guessing that 5b withdrawal amount is the zero account move that I never got to see.
I'll let EMF explain anything before I start posting the game logs. |
Kazzac Elentria
|
Posted - 2008.12.02 06:13:00 -
[124]
Originally by: Brock Nelson
Edited by: Brock Nelson on 02/12/2008 05:56:21
Seeing how Lucy/emf hasn't made the site for investors to review profit/loss, could you summarize them for us? Basically, I'm looking to see total income, total payout, net income/loss.
I forgot to mention that the video poker data is worthless, there was an obvious payout bug, that appeared to be fixed the day before I finished my audit according to my original game logs.
The roulette was tracking close to the standard 48% with a 2% house advantage while blackjack while slightly higher than the norm of what 36% in casinos now, was still on track to turn a profit.
Remember, I had zero access to the actual code from the website.
...so yeah with that posted Im off to smoke a cig, go to bed, and hope things clear okay in the morning. |
Garia666
Amarr
T.H.U.G L.I.F.E
White Core
|
Posted - 2008.12.02 13:01:00 -
[125]
so did we get robbed?
www.garia.net |
Atheana Vernius
Minmatar
Tectrian Ventures
|
Posted - 2008.12.02 14:02:00 -
[126]
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=938654
An acusation of the scam
An optimist may see a light where there is none, but why must the pessimist always run to blow it out?
Rene Descartes |
XrayZII
VXR Heavy Industries
|
Posted - 2008.12.02 20:41:00 -
[127]
Originally by: Garia666
so did we get robbed?
seems so if not proven otherwise 
|
cosmoray
Cosmoray Construction
|
Posted - 2008.12.02 21:02:00 -
[128]
Now I have no idea if this is a SCAM or not, but the biggest concern over launching a casino is trust.
1. Trust that the games are FAIR
2. Trust that the banker/teller will accept ISK and deposit into the account and payout when requested.
EOH (poker) does an awesome job of this and runs an excellent service. The one advantage for Poker is that it is third party software and can't be rigged (hopefully).
The only way a casino will run is with people handling the ISK can be trusted, as such Kazzac and others volunteered to partner with the casino.
I am not sure whether this will turn into a SCAM or not, but the trust issue has been broken so I can't see how the casino will survive?
|
Damien Jax
Chaos Faction
|
Posted - 2008.12.02 21:04:00 -
[129]
Seems to me like the owner of the casino figured out that they're losing money, decided to ask for more and closed up shop with all of your hard earned isk...
Perhaps they should have run tests on their games first to see if they'd be profitable. While generally the house always wins, enormous payouts can eat away those profits quickly.
|
Kazzac Elentria
|
Posted - 2008.12.02 21:29:00 -
[130]
Im not holding it to a scam yet, payouts were made to players (non related by any connection I could find through corporate history, evesearch) through the initial history of the casino and generally speaking barring a complete total run and failure on the RNG it would make a profit
I'll wait to see where it goes.. EMF I would suggest that you use someone other than me if you want to verify that payouts have been made to players since the start of the casino. I don't want my hands tainted at all. |
Damien Jax
Chaos Faction
|
Posted - 2008.12.02 21:49:00 -
[131]
Kazzac,
Can you find out how much isk was taken in and how much isk was paid out? From the way the payouts were going on that thread in the events forum, it looked like he was spitting out isk left and right and was running low on capital (hence this thread). I won't call it a scam either, but I won't be investing anything as well.
|
Kazzac Elentria
|
Posted - 2008.12.02 21:52:00 -
[132]
Info is at home, so it'll have to wait till tomorrow. |
Jacque Custeau
Knights of the Minmatar Republic
|
Posted - 2008.12.03 01:22:00 -
[133]
My alts and myself don't own any bonds, but I hope the community has grown to the point where we can tell the difference between a scam and a failed business. If the business failed, I hope they follow procedures similar to Chapter 7 and liquidate to pay off what they can to their debtors. If not, then it could be a scam.
-------------------
|
Amon Rhar
InterGalatica Corp
|
Posted - 2008.12.03 04:57:00 -
[134]
Edited by: Amon Rhar on 03/12/2008 05:00:00
I hope that is not a farce, it would be very bad for us all.
I have noticed that Banker Lucy has been very little in the game, provided that such reports appeared.
|
PaddyPaddy Nihildarnik
Gallente
aurorae pacificas
|
Posted - 2008.12.03 07:22:00 -
[135]
As a stakeholder (600mil) in this I would just like for all those who are already throwing around the term "SCAM" to think carefully about what they put down here. As noted before this project will only succeed if given enough trust. Perhaps Im gullible but lets give EMF/ Banker Lucy a grace period to actually defend him/her self before we start throwning around such a volatile word.
Working in Hotel management and hospitality for over 9 years in RL I can tell you that if anything, a self confessed problem gambler is far less trustworthy at this point then someone trying to run a virtual casino.
I await EMF's reply to this situation.
Perhaps some form of security to be held by a third party might be in order, even for say 33% of invested isk. Im sure a few successful days on the casino floor should be able to cover this.
|
CornerStoner
|
Posted - 2008.12.03 07:47:00 -
[136]
If this turns out to be a scam the damage done to future IPOs of this type will hurt more than the ISK lost by investors. Reactions based IPOs are pretty much dead since this 40bil scam.
I would give it another day or two before we write this off.
|
Frenden Dax
Dax Acquisitions
|
Posted - 2008.12.03 07:50:00 -
[137]
The fact that emf/Lucy hasn't posted here once is disconcerting; while I won't stamp it as a scam until tomorrow night, the prospect looks rather grim.
|
Brock Nelson
Caldari
Flux Technologies Inc
|
Posted - 2008.12.03 10:20:00 -
[138]
Emf's been on the game couple of times and had adequate chance of posting in this thread.
Like it or not people, this a scam.
10% for Returning Customers |
emf
Amarr
Knights Of the Black Sun
|
Posted - 2008.12.03 18:11:00 -
[139]
I have not posted because I don't know what to say... I don't want to make things worse. This is not a scam and I will be trying to keep the casino running, however do not expect the first payout to be more than 6%.
|
Kazzac Elentria
|
Posted - 2008.12.03 18:30:00 -
[140]
Originally by: emf
I have not posted because I don't know what to say... I don't want to make things worse. This is not a scam and I will be trying to keep the casino running, however do not expect the first payout to be more than 6%.
Like in the Event thread, get a third party API check to verify things and all will be well with the world. |
PaddyPaddy Nihildarnik
Gallente
aurorae pacificas
|
Posted - 2008.12.04 00:52:00 -
[141]
Originally by: Kazzac Elentria
Originally by: emf
I have not posted because I don't know what to say... I don't want to make things worse. This is not a scam and I will be trying to keep the casino running, however do not expect the first payout to be more than 6%.
Like in the Event thread, get a third party API check to verify things and all will be well with the world.
Im hoping you could get either an Ebank rep or perhaps Chribba to do this.
As for not posting thats certainly a black mark against your name, again. This thread is not the events thread. You are not only dealing with potential customers but also your investors. Even a group eve mail explaining that "the problem was being looked into" would have been sufficient to cool alot of heads.
As it is silence will only prolong and manifest the concerns of your investor group. If this is not a scam then I suggest giving people more security, such as my afor mentioned idea of a third party held security bond of 33% invested isk or the immediate option of withdrawing their investment pending investigation of the allegation.
Fact of the matter is that you would at least want to consider ONE of these options. Failure to do so, in my eyes at least, would continue to make this look like a crooked deal or a shoddy run operation.
|
Ricdic
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.12.04 01:28:00 -
[142]
I don't have time to chase this issue up. I have advised Chorizo I will no longer be dealing with it. Anyone else who wants to deal with both parties to determine what truly happened is welcome to do so. |
Damien Jax
Chaos Faction
|
Posted - 2008.12.04 03:42:00 -
[143]
I'd be willing to do a second audit on what's going on and analyze the transactions. Free of charge.
|
Brock Nelson
Caldari
Flux Technologies Inc
|
Posted - 2008.12.04 04:39:00 -
[144]
And you are...? No offense but I never heard of you. Besides, I'm happy with Kazzac being the auditor, no need for a second one.
10% for Returning Customers |
Ricdic
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.12.04 05:42:00 -
[145]
It's not a second audit that needs doing, mediation between the two parties is required to determine what happened. |
Grendell
Technologies Unlimited
|
Posted - 2008.12.04 06:24:00 -
[146]
I check this thread like every hour lol, just thought I'd post and say hello
|
Kazzac Elentria
|
Posted - 2008.12.04 13:27:00 -
[147]
Originally by: Ricdic
It's not a second audit that needs doing, mediation between the two parties is required to determine what happened.
The accuser has tried to contact me in game, I've given out my personal addy so we'll see where it goes.
To be frank, I'm leaning towards EMF with this one. His accounting methods in handling the payments with the Casino were goofy (in handling payments with all toons on every account) but to be honest this was well before the launch and during the discussion phase of his offering when looking at the dates. And finally the numbers added up in the end. |
Damien Jax
Chaos Faction
|
Posted - 2008.12.04 14:55:00 -
[148]
Originally by: Brock Nelson
And you are...? No offense but I never heard of you. Besides, I'm happy with Kazzac being the auditor, no need for a second one.
I realize that, that's why I said I'd do it for free. It never hurts to get my feet wet and start doing it. I didn't invest in this offering, so I really have nothing to gain either way other than it'll give me a chance to offer something to the investors.
|
Ricdic
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.12.04 14:58:00 -
[149]
It should really be easy to determine:
1) Did the guy win that much cash? Yes/No? (verified both parties?)
2) Did the guy request full withdrawal? Yes/No? (verified both parties?)
3) Was the withdrawal actioned? Yes/No? (verified API key either party)
But I think the whole gambling ban thing is going to complicate this whole issue, hopefully points 1-3 above will resolve it but I don't like your chances Kaz 
|
Kazzac Elentria
|
Posted - 2008.12.04 15:04:00 -
[150]
Originally by: Ricdic
It should really be easy to determine:
1) Did the guy win that much cash? Yes/No? (verified both parties?)
2) Did the guy request full withdrawal? Yes/No? (verified both parties?)
3) Was the withdrawal actioned? Yes/No? (verified API key either party)
But I think the whole gambling ban thing is going to complicate this whole issue, hopefully points 1-3 above will resolve it but I don't like your chances Kaz
Wouldn't be the first time I've put a foot in my mouth |
Grendell
Technologies Unlimited
|
Posted - 2008.12.04 17:58:00 -
[151]
Originally by: Ricdic
It should really be easy to determine:
1) Did the guy win that much cash? Yes/No? (verified both parties?)
2) Did the guy request full withdrawal? Yes/No? (verified both parties?)
3) Was the withdrawal actioned? Yes/No? (verified API key either party)
But I think the whole gambling ban thing is going to complicate this whole issue, hopefully points 1-3 above will resolve it but I don't like your chances Kaz
Gambling ban?
I miss something
|
Elder Langley
Langley Trading and Holdings
|
Posted - 2008.12.04 18:02:00 -
[152]
Edited by: Elder Langley on 04/12/2008 18:03:22
I was thinking the same...
Edit: I hope Ricdic is talking about the accuser asking to be banned from the site.
|
Ricdic
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.12.04 18:17:00 -
[153]
Originally by: Elder Langley
Edit: I hope Ricdic is talking about the accuser asking to be banned from the site.
Correct, what else would I have been talking about? |
cosmoray
Cosmoray Construction
|
Posted - 2008.12.04 18:26:00 -
[154]
Originally by: Ricdic
Originally by: Elder Langley
Edit: I hope Ricdic is talking about the accuser asking to be banned from the site.
Correct, what else would I have been talking about?
Slight panic, thought for a minute that poker would be stopped. Where have all the poker players gone, the site seems empty, sigh...
|
Grendell
Technologies Unlimited
|
Posted - 2008.12.04 18:51:00 -
[155]
Originally by: Ricdic
Originally by: Elder Langley
Edit: I hope Ricdic is talking about the accuser asking to be banned from the site.
Correct, what else would I have been talking about?
oh you're cruel to make me panic like that lol!
Your next poker game, your rake is being doubled!
|
Handelsschnucki
|
Posted - 2008.12.05 13:50:00 -
[156]
Originally by: cosmoray
Originally by: Ricdic
Originally by: Elder Langley
Edit: I hope Ricdic is talking about the accuser asking to be banned from the site.
Correct, what else would I have been talking about?
Slight panic, thought for a minute that poker would be stopped. Where have all the poker players gone, the site seems empty, sigh...
God, that gave me a heart attack too. Imagine ring games might never go up again ...
|
Dregek
Pilots Of Honour
Axiom Empire
|
Posted - 2008.12.06 00:14:00 -
[157]
so is this a scam or not?
|
Brock Nelson
Caldari
Flux Technologies Inc
|
Posted - 2008.12.06 00:58:00 -
[158]
Not up yet.
10% for Returning Customers |
Damien Jax
Chaos Faction
|
Posted - 2008.12.06 18:47:00 -
[159]
What's the status on this? Seems like we kinda got side tracked here.
|
Kazzac Elentria
|
Posted - 2008.12.06 18:49:00 -
[160]
Originally by: Damien Jax
What's the status on this? Seems like we kinda got side tracked here.
Accuser gave me their API information, downloaded it and unfortunately RL issues along with more pressing matters (corp and personal business in game) have caused a delay.
EMF, if you could get in touch with me out of game. |
Garia666
Amarr
T.H.U.G L.I.F.E
White Core
|
Posted - 2008.12.08 02:05:00 -
[161]
so what now? we still wai tfor our first pay out.. or did we lose out isk?
www.garia.net |
Mickey Simon
Noir.
|
Posted - 2008.12.08 11:10:00 -
[162]
Originally by: Garia666
so what now? we still wai tfor our first pay out.. or did we lose out isk?
No idea, but a bit of communication given the data that's been aired wouldn't go astray . . .
Meanwhile, on the other side of town . . . |
Garia666
Amarr
T.H.U.G L.I.F.E
White Core
|
Posted - 2008.12.08 20:27:00 -
[163]
i recieved corp shares tough..
www.garia.net |
Brock Nelson
Caldari
Flux Technologies Inc
|
Posted - 2008.12.09 00:35:00 -
[164]
So...is Emf ever going to respond in this thread. It's been almost a week and that's adequate enough time to post something other than "Don't worry guys, I'll post something here later" I've seen him log into the game couple of times and during those time in the game, he couldn't bother to come around to this?
10% for Returning Customers |
Mickey Simon
Noir.
|
Posted - 2008.12.10 17:27:00 -
[165]
I've just sent an eve-mail to emf informing him that I believe the majority of investors would be keen on an update, and that it's in everyones interest for him to do so.
Here's hoping he reads said mail and does update us all.
Meanwhile, on the other side of town . . . |
CornerStoner
|
Posted - 2008.12.10 17:31:00 -
[166]
Originally by: Mickey Simon
I've just sent an eve-mail to emf informing him that I believe the majority of investors would be keen on an update, and that it's in everyones interest for him to do so.
Here's hoping he reads said mail and does update us all.
I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you. Allthough he might have started out with the best intentions I fear this has failed and our investment is a loss. I hope he proves me wrong.
|
Mickey Simon
Noir.
|
Posted - 2008.12.10 19:19:00 -
[167]
Originally by: CornerStoner
I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you. Allthough he might have started out with the best intentions I fear this has failed and our investment is a loss. I hope he proves me wrong.
To be honest, I don't really mind.
What I do mind though, is that the communication throughout this venture has been less than expected, and far from desirable.
Meanwhile, on the other side of town . . . |
Kazzac Elentria
|
Posted - 2008.12.10 20:08:00 -
[168]
Just updating that unless EMF can explain the following in detail regarding the issue at hand, I'd be writing this off.
Chorizo gave me his API access, figured I'd update with what I see so far. Pretty much just confirming what Ricdic posted in the Event thread.
The Transaction data goes back to the 24th of Nov from which it starts with BakerLucy depositing 150m to Chorizo
From there CHorizo deposits more isk totaling 1.6b on the 26th of Nov
Banker Lucy then deposits 5.6b to Chorizo on the 27th
On the 28th Chorizo then deposits a total of 9.3b in a series of transactions over the course of an hour
EMF then transfers 200m to Chorizo on the 29th
Chorizo then deposits 1.6b on the 1st of December
EMF sends the last transaction in the amount of 1.6b
So reading into this, based on the previous information I had. It would appear that isk was sent, and lost over a period time until the proverbial **** hit the fan on the 1st of December. At which point there is serious contention over that final 1.6b and how it was used what winnings were made off it, etc..
So read into that what you will. Unless EMF can come into this thread and explain what is going on, Im going to write this one off. |
cosmoray
Cosmoray Construction
|
Posted - 2008.12.11 03:46:00 -
[169]
This will be annoying if it ends in fail/scam.
I really liked the idea of the casino, but it needed to be run in conjunction with a trusted 3rd party.
Joins low sec POS's level of investment category.
|
Mickey Simon
Noir.
|
Posted - 2008.12.11 07:53:00 -
[170]
Originally by: cosmoray
This will be annoying if it ends in fail/scam.
Perhaps, but for me personally if it is a failure, it paves the way for me to make my own EVE Casino, and to do it properly.
Meanwhile, on the other side of town . . . |
Garia666
Amarr
T.H.U.G L.I.F.E
White Core
|
Posted - 2008.12.11 16:15:00 -
[171]
So anything we can do in the mean time?
if its a scam i dont mind but i would like to know so i can move on. ( And cry like a baby..)
as my 1st investment was a fraud.
and as sure will be my last .
www.garia.net |
CornerStoner
|
Posted - 2008.12.11 16:28:00 -
[172]
Originally by: Garia666
So anything we can do in the mean time?
if its a scam i dont mind but i would like to know so i can move on. ( And cry like a baby..)
as my 1st investment was a fraud.
and as sure will be my last .
Don't make the mistake of judging everyone by the actions of a few. Investments here can provide you with some nice passive income and they aren't all scams. Everyone here has invested in a scam or two so don't feel alone. Choose carefully and don't ever invest what you don't want to lose.
|
Xabier
THE SORORITY
CODE RED ALLIANCE
|
Posted - 2008.12.11 16:42:00 -
[173]
Edited by: Xabier on 11/12/2008 16:43:45
Originally by: cosmoray
This will be annoying if it ends in fail/scam.
I really liked the idea of the casino, but it needed to be run in conjunction with a trusted 3rd party.
Joins low sec POS's level of investment category.
What I find annoying about the whole thing is issues like this were brought up when EMF was fishing to see if there was interest in the concept.
Clearly he obviously didn't care enough in the first place to listen to the initial feedback.
I guess you won't know if its a scam until he fails to pay dividends as obviously has no intention of posting publicly, also its safe to say that even if he pays a dividend its likely to fail regardless due to the damage caused by loss of trust, this loss of trust has only increased over time due to the lack of communication.
Personally if I were you I'd read back through his posts on this thread and read between the lines.
Xabiers Capital Bond #1
Xabiers Capital Bond #2
|
cosmoray
Cosmoray Construction
|
Posted - 2008.12.11 17:57:00 -
[174]
Kind of academic to me, as I would of only invested if EMF had taken up Kazzac's offer of running the payment side.
Doesn't matter if Casino is alive or dead now, no one will touch it to play. What money he has left is now gone.
|
Kazzac Elentria
|
Posted - 2008.12.11 18:44:00 -
[175]
Originally by: cosmoray
Kind of academic to me, as I would of only invested if EMF had taken up Kazzac's offer of running the payment side.
Doesn't matter if Casino is alive or dead now, no one will touch it to play. What money he has left is now gone.
This was the straw the broke the camels back for me. I've tried to taken a stance during auditing that I won't judge, I won't try to be a salesmen either but I won't judge. I'll present the information that I've found and let those that see it make their own decisions based on what I've presented.
Obviously that doesn't work in this enviroment. Red flags should have went up on everyones radar the minute you read that I noticed he was using all toons to handle incoming and outgoing isk. That isk was contracted directly out for a dread purchase, etc...
So from now on for any audit I'm going to be a mean son of a ***** and make sure I let my opinion be known in addition to the information I've found. |
Garia666
Amarr
T.H.U.G L.I.F.E
White Core
|
Posted - 2008.12.12 08:36:00 -
[176]
Originally by: Kazzac Elentria
Originally by: cosmoray
Kind of academic to me, as I would of only invested if EMF had taken up Kazzac's offer of running the payment side.
Doesn't matter if Casino is alive or dead now, no one will touch it to play. What money he has left is now gone.
This was the straw the broke the camels back for me. I've tried to taken a stance during auditing that I won't judge, I won't try to be a salesmen either but I won't judge. I'll present the information that I've found and let those that see it make their own decisions based on what I've presented.
Obviously that doesn't work in this enviroment. Red flags should have went up on everyones radar the minute you read that I noticed he was using all toons to handle incoming and outgoing isk. That isk was contracted directly out for a dread purchase, etc...
So from now on for any audit I'm going to be a mean son of a ***** and make sure I let my opinion be known in addition to the information I've found.
yeah nice to bad it costed meh 1 bill tough :P
anyway your work is apreciated m8. nothing personal. .
www.garia.net |
SiJira
|
Posted - 2008.12.12 16:49:00 -
[177]
so the game went on a random streak paying out more than someone put in a few times too many and the ipo owner gave up because it was easier? it makes no sense to invest in anyone else considering the time it takes yourself to make 10 percent a month - it takes more time researching the ipos
Trashed sig, Shark was here |
Feryal Sky
|
Posted - 2008.12.12 17:07:00 -
[178]
Originally by: SiJira
so the game went on a random streak paying out more than someone put in a few times too many and the ipo owner gave up because it was easier? it makes no sense to invest in anyone else considering the time it takes yourself to make 10 percent a month - it takes more time researching the ipos
Grandma is right.
|
Damien Jax
Industrial Research College Ltd
|
Posted - 2008.12.12 17:18:00 -
[179]
A Casino is still a viable business opportunity in EVE. Unfortunately, this one was poorly designed and not run properly. I'm sure it'll leave a bad taste in everyone's mouths for some time to come. The failure was on EMF's part for not making the game more favorable to the house. Using 1 deck on blackjack is an example. Another problem were the lack of max bets, the way the house wins is by you playing many times.
If I bet 1 billion and won on one hand in blackjack, I'd take my money and run. However, if I were forced to bet only 50m at a time, it'd force me to play more if I wanted more. Thus, the house will usually win because now there are more chances for the house to win small amounts a large number of times. Spread that out among many players and the house wins in the long-run.
Lets face it, it was poorly designed and executed. If I knew how to integrate the eve API, I'd set up a casino in a heartbeat.
|
Jayyne Cobb
|
Posted - 2008.12.14 20:40:00 -
[180]
Edited by: Jayyne Cobb on 14/12/2008 20:41:31
I guess I was scammed too. F you, banker lucy. KOS.
|
Ivar Strahm
|
Posted - 2008.12.16 22:52:00 -
[181]
Given that it has been about two weeks since emf/Banker Lucy have made any attempt at public communication in this or his events thread, yet he has been active both in game and in other areas of the forums since then, is there any reason not to write off this casino/offering as a scam? Have any of the other involved parties had success in reaching him or sorting any of this mess out?
Mind you, I did not invest in this venture, but I am keeping records on the various IPOs and players here for the purposes of future investment.
|
GenXS
|
Posted - 2008.12.22 11:42:00 -
[182]
Edited by: GenXS on 22/12/2008 11:44:27
Hilarious.. i check into google for some statistics on slotmachines and find this wacky story :)
Well not to worry. Eve Games is launching fun events where we can. We're new but willing and trustworthy. Our plan to start a casino is 1 day old so i guess i should have read up first hehe.
Our idea is to start the casino small with own capital. We'll close down when we're broke though but hope we won't get that far based up on the limits we'll play.
Have fun with our nutty beta version (serious.. its nutty ;)
casino.eve-games.org
|
GenXS
|
Posted - 2008.12.27 04:10:00 -
[183]
Our little casino is now in demo mode. 10M free isk to play with during the demo. Not many games yet but we're working on that. Feedback much appreciated as we're hoping to become a fun filled casino.
http://casino.eve-games.org
|
ingenting
20th Legion
Southern Cross Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.12.27 05:12:00 -
[184]
Originally by: GenXS
said stuff
you dont belong in here. go 
_________________
- "Welcome to EVE, remember to insu *BAAOOM*... Told you, newb." |
Owndaworld
|
Posted - 2009.01.01 07:16:00 -
[185]
Any news from Banker Lucy, for the first month interest ? |
G'kek
|
Posted - 2009.01.01 07:26:00 -
[186]
I suggest reading the thread. Looks like Banker did a runner after someone hit the jackpot.
|
Owndaworld
|
Posted - 2009.01.01 07:28:00 -
[187]
SCAMMED ! F*** :(
Thx for the information.
|
Frenden Dax
Dax Acquisitions
|
Posted - 2009.01.01 07:49:00 -
[188]
Originally by: Owndaworld
Any news from Banker Lucy, for the first month interest ?
Up until you asked this question, I wasn't 100% sure that he scammed. I figured that he could be soldiering on while not giving a hoot about damage control. Since he's missed his dividend deadline by a couple days now, I'm finally sure.
Scam.
|
Mitabear
|
Posted - 2009.01.02 03:34:00 -
[189]
Edited by: Mitabear on 02/01/2009 03:37:50
Just an FYI, ThatCPP, EMF and another alt lost 3 dreads out of 4 to Solstice Systems Development Concourse shortly after this bond request was posted.
I have toons in SSDC that were involved in the destroying of those dreads.
All three dreads were replaced and back in action in the Amamake area within a week.
Check the SSDC killboard for confimation.
Scam comes to mind here.
|
Veinnail
Solstice Systems Development Concourse
|
Posted - 2009.01.02 05:29:00 -
[190]
Originally by: Mitabear
Just an FYI, ThatCPP, EMF and another alt lost 3 dreads out of 4 to Solstice Systems Development Concourse
confirmed
SSDC HOME|||SSDC WANTS YOU |
Admrial Cane
|
Posted - 2009.01.15 19:27:00 -
[191]
well is an eve casino cheating ? |
ShadowandLight
Amarr
Hammer Of Light
Libertas Fidelitas
|
Posted - 2009.01.16 01:40:00 -
[192]
this seemed like a good idea, i might steal it
except the fact that its seemingly a scam??
|
G'kek
|
Posted - 2009.01.16 10:11:00 -
[193]
Originally by: ShadowandLight
this seemed like a good idea, i might steal it
except the fact that its seemingly a scam??
I do believe that if you use the perceptive ability that your eyes endow you with that you can actually find out information using your optical sensors rather than relying on others. |
Damien Jax
Industrial Research College Ltd
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Posted - 2009.01.16 14:13:00 -
[194]
An EVE casino is still a very viable and lucritive idea. I know there's one other corp currently trying to get one set up (but I think it's more betting on outside events than actual gambling games).
There's a couple of things you need to be successful (I won't get into the infrastructure needs):
1.) A large enough bankroll to cover payments should you lose money at first so that you dno't have to close shop.
2.) Games that provide a house advantage (which should be all games depending on how you set it up, which brings me to point 3).
3.) The law of large numbers - the more times you make someone play, the better chance you have to win (again, depending on the game and how it's set up). To do this, you need to impose max bet limits. The reason this failed is because someone scored a jackpot and there wasn't enough money to cover the payment without damaging the casio's ability to operate.
So lets say you set up a blackjack game. To get a house advantage and to actually make money over the long term, you'd need to do a few things (I'm not a gambling expert, but here's how I see how the house wins):
1.) Impose a max bet of say 5mil so that at most, the house won't lose more than 5 mil each hand.
2.) Use multiple decks to prevent card counting (especially since you can write a script to do it for you).
So the gambler may win a few at first and build up some good winnings. However, the more times they play, the better chances the house has at winning in the long run. Understanding the psychology of gamblers should be considered as well. True, some gamblers will make some money then run. However, most gamblers will make some money then get greedy and go for more. THen they get in a hole and figure they want to at least win their money back. They then get into a bigger hole as they continue to play.
A casino operation isn't simple by far. There's some other things you need to consider as well. That is, how are you going to attract and keep players? If a majority of your gamblers lose money, what's to encourage them to return and try it again? In vegas they do comps (they also have shiny lights and attractions that help to keep bringing people back). Anyway, if you can set up a good infrastructure and do some simulation tests on it (to actually see if you'd make money) and can prove it profitable, I'm sure you wont' have a problem getting funding. |
cosmoray
Cosmoray Construction
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Posted - 2009.01.16 15:24:00 -
[195]
Edited by: cosmoray on 16/01/2009 15:23:51
Still best idea for a casino, is a wager matching service like betfair.
Software matches to gamblers you want to bet on an event. The site takes a small escrow handling fee (5%).
e.g.
1. I set up account with service deposit 1B
2. I set up a bet that Eagles win playoff vs cardinals this weekend for 100M.
3. Gambler 2 with account wants to bet 100M on Cardinals.
4. Software matches us, and takes escrow cut.
5. 195M ISk paid to winners account.
Could also be done with partial bets.
1. I wager 500M on Eagles
2. gambler 2 wages 100M on cardinals
3. Gambler 3 wages 250M on cardinals
4. gambler 4 wages 150M on cardinals
5. Software matches me to the 3 gamblers
Casino can't lose as its an escrow service.
IF SOMEONE CAN CODE THIS CONTACT ME, AS I WOULD BANKROLL THIS IDEA.CODER WOULD GET 50% OF BUSINESS |
MailDeadDrop
Globaltech Industries
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Posted - 2009.01.16 16:48:00 -
[196]
Originally by: cosmoray
Still best idea for a casino, is a wager matching service like betfair.
Software matches to gamblers you want to bet on an event. The site takes a small escrow handling fee (5%).
cosmoray, I was under the impression that CCP hf had already stated that in-game wagering on out-of-game events was not permitted. If so, I think that would put a rather significant risk on such a business venture.
MDD |
cosmoray
Cosmoray Construction
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Posted - 2009.01.16 18:13:00 -
[197]
Originally by: MailDeadDrop
Originally by: cosmoray
Still best idea for a casino, is a wager matching service like betfair.
Software matches to gamblers you want to bet on an event. The site takes a small escrow handling fee (5%).
cosmoray, I was under the impression that CCP hf had already stated that in-game wagering on out-of-game events was not permitted. If so, I think that would put a rather significant risk on such a business venture.
MDD
No you can use ISK for this. many casinos and other games exist.
It would not be done with IGB, but set up as an external site. You would give ISK and get credits on the site. For cash out ISK would be paid back in game.
Not against EULA I think?
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Shavana
Made in Canada
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Posted - 2009.01.16 18:35:00 -
[198]
Real money pays for website which in turn earns you isk.
Seems like a way to buy ISK without buying it directly from ISK farmers...
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Astarte Nosferatu
Minmatar
Abrivianius Manufacturing Corporation
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Posted - 2009.01.16 18:36:00 -
[199]
Originally by: cosmoray
No you can use ISK for this. many casinos and other games exist.
It would not be done with IGB, but set up as an external site. You would give ISK and get credits on the site. For cash out ISK would be paid back in game.
Not against EULA I think?
He's talking about waging with isk, ingame, on out of game events. Like setting up an IGB site where you can bet on when the president of the US will get assassinated, or who will win whatever sports match.
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MailDeadDrop
Globaltech Industries
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Posted - 2009.01.16 19:23:00 -
[200]
Right. I think CCP hf draws a line between wagering in games of chance (roulette, lotteries) or skill (poker), versus wagering on events like those listed above (which are neither chance nor skill, but that's neither here nor there). I'm trying to find evidence to support my admittedly vague recollection.
MDD |
Damien Jax
Industrial Research College Ltd
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Posted - 2009.01.16 20:30:00 -
[201]
Cosmo,
What should someone do if there's no other betters for the other team? I guess they win nothing then? Also, if one team has 100m in bets on it, and the other has 50m in bets, if the person with 50m in bets wins, do they get the 100m (minus escrow of course)?
I know how to code it.... in excel... just not in PHP or ASP. I should really learn how to code in that. |
cosmoray
Cosmoray Construction
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Posted - 2009.01.16 23:17:00 -
[202]
Originally by: Damien Jax
Cosmo,
What should someone do if there's no other betters for the other team? I guess they win nothing then? Also, if one team has 100m in bets on it, and the other has 50m in bets, if the person with 50m in bets wins, do they get the 100m (minus escrow of course)?
I know how to code it.... in excel... just not in PHP or ASP. I should really learn how to code in that.
If no one accepts a bet, then money is returned or remains in account.
If gambler 1 bets 100M, and gambler 2 puts 50M against it the 2x50M bets will match.
Gambler 1 will still have 50M of bets waiting to be accepted.
Theoretically, Gambler A could put 5B ISk on Eagles winning this weekend.
Then 30 gamblers could put bets against the 5B but can't go over.
The idea is to match total amount of bets on one side vs other side.
If it is too difficult to code, then a gambler could just place a bet and someone else could accept it. |
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