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ouroboros trading Gallente Medics On Fire	Posted - 2008.11.20 11:06:00 - [31] Originally by: Tippia i strawman peoples comments when i quote them because i know i have lost and can only spin my own lack of knowledge off as a form of knowledge in itself of course i don't realise how idiotic that is :) advertising it as a feature and countless times having ccp staff (not other players) tell players about itkinda counts. i win.
Tippia Caldari Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2008.11.20 11:07:00 - [32] Originally by: ouroboros trading advertising it as a feature and countless times having ccp staff (not other players) tell players about itkinda counts. Only if you can prove it. No sig for me, thankyouverymuch.
Furb Killer Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.11.20 11:10:00 - [33] It wasnt advertised, they mentioned it was possible. And now comes the shocking moment, it was possible. So i really dont see the problem. --------------------------------------------- Originally by: Neth'Rae Military experts are calling this a troll.
Mankirks Wife Caldari Space Furry Association	Posted - 2008.11.20 11:35:00 - [34] I always found ETC / Ghost training whines amusing. We all play a game that glorifies capitalism, then complain when CCP acts like they want all the money they can get out of it.
Tasty Bit Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE	Posted - 2008.11.20 11:38:00 - [35] Originally by: Opertone unfair, i can't say how much i hate people with numerous alts, whom i can't beat. I like playing with main characters, but hate fighting really maxxed out ghost trained alts. it gives too much advantage for other players, there is more than enough hardcore alts. I'm not telling you how to play the game, just highlighting other options available to you.
ouroboros trading Gallente Medics On Fire	Posted - 2008.11.20 11:42:00 - [36] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: ouroboros trading advertising it as a feature and countless times having ccp staff (not other players) tell players about itkinda counts. Only if you can prove it. let me begin. http://myeve.eve-online.com/updates/patchnotes.asp?patchlogID=99 note the green text at the bottom, reading; "On the Serenity server, skills no longer train when the owning account is deactivated. Tranquility is not affected by this change." whoa, so the fix existed years ago? neat. and it's pleasantly called a change not a bug fix. given you now know that the ~~fix~~change for this existed years ago yet was only implemented amidst a swathe of cash grabs and terrible excuses the players ripped apart, the inclusion of the ghost training feature in the new player section of the player guide (so pertaining to those on a trial account, not yet paying customers)... hang on, you still want me to waste my precious time finding quotes for you from ccp staff from the archives (not even sure i'd know how to do that in any time-efficient manner, if anyone cares to suggest a good method :)?)? I think i've done enough for now, your turn, stop trying to play chess by skipping every move
H Lecter Gallente The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2008.11.20 11:53:00 - [37] First to the OP - interesting idea, though I would not make use of it very often. I have one account and never suspended my subscription. Regarding CCP being an 'evil greedy' company - would it make you people happy if they went bankrupt and Eve became a piece of video game history? If this game is so flawed and the business practices are so unfair, I really wonder why you're still playing... That being said, the PR around the ghost training fix/change was really poor, but I tend to prefer a good game with bad PR over a bad game with good PR My opinion is purely personal and not related to my alliance
Tippia Caldari Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2008.11.20 11:55:00 - [38] Originally by: ouroboros trading http://myeve.eve-online.com/updates/patchnotes.asp?patchlogID=99 note the green text at the bottom, reading; "On the Serenity server, skills no longer train when the owning account is deactivated. Tranquility is not affected by this change." Yes? Where's the advertisement of a feature? Quote: given you now know that the ~~fix~~change for this existed years ago yet was only implemented amidst a swathe of cash grabs and terrible excuses the players ripped apart Yes? They finally found it a problem worth fixing. Where's the advertisement of a feature? Quote: the inclusion of the ghost training feature in the new player section of the player guide (so pertaining to those on a trial account, not yet paying customers)... Yes? It describe how the game worked at the time. Where's the advertisement of feature? Quote: hang on, you still want me to waste my precious time finding quotes for you from ccp staff from the archives? Since that's what you claim and thus what you need to prove, yes. Quote: I think i've done enough for now Ok, if you think so. You still haven't shown it advertised as a feature, nor have you shown CCP staff touting it as such. So if you want to prove your claim at a later point rather than now, please do. No sig for me, thankyouverymuch.
ouroboros trading Gallente Medics On Fire	Posted - 2008.11.20 11:56:00 - [39] stop skipping moves.
Pohbis Neo T.E.C.H.	Posted - 2008.11.20 11:59:00 - [40] Originally by: Tzar'rim Wrong, it was a bug they couldn't solve and then told it to be a feature. Now they focussed on it and were able to squish the bug and thus they removed it. Don't turn around logic to push your own agenda :) Funny how that "bug" never existed on the Chinese server, which ran years side by side with the "buggy" Tranqulity-server. Don't defend CCP when you do just as bad a job as they do justifying the decision ;)
Tippia Caldari Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2008.11.20 11:59:00 - [41] Originally by: ouroboros trading stop skipping moves. Stop avoiding the question. No sig for me, thankyouverymuch.
ouroboros trading Gallente Medics On Fire	Posted - 2008.11.20 12:08:00 - [42] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: ouroboros trading stop skipping moves. Stop avoiding the question. Come now, i know you're simply employing typical smokescreen questioning that's typical of someone who's cornered, you've totally ignored the thrust of my arguement because it's backed up by evidence i spent too-long finding (that they knew how to easily change the system years ago but never). You'll simply slide round any piece of evidence i spend yet more time finding with the god-awful search tool. You're a troll who's method is that of time wasting, you make people waste time whilst investing very little of your own, i.e. skipping moves, moving the knight back and forth :) oh wait... I found a link to all the evidence :)
Jinx Barker GFB Scientific	Posted - 2008.11.20 12:42:00 - [43] Originally by: Zaknussem So when is CCP going to ride this train to the end station and remove all benefits from inactive accounts? Market orders, corp positions, science & industry jobs and accumulated Research Points? All of these will improve a character on an inactive account without CCP seeing a dime. The OP's idea is a good one, but CCP simply doesn't have what it takes to implement it. That would be my question as well, at this point, the inactive accounts should: Stop Accumulating RP All Market Orders Canceled Stop Building Jobs This would be fair, and would really make people who pay for their accounts benefit.
Tippia Caldari Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2008.11.20 13:07:00 - [44] Originally by: ouroboros trading Come now, i know you're simply employing typical smokescreen questioning that's typical of someone who's cornered No. I'm asking you to prove what you claim. Quote: you've totally ignored the thrust of my arguement because it's backed up by evidence i spent too-long finding (that they knew how to easily change the system years ago but never). The problem is that your evidence and your argument doesn't back up your claim. "Not fixing" ≠ "Advertising as a feature." Not fixing it simply means they didn't see it as a problem. Quote: You'll simply slide round any piece of evidence i spend yet more time finding with the god-awful search tool. Why would I, especially if it actually proves that they've advertised it as a feature? You'll notice that I've kept asking the same question and you have consistently failed to answer it. Try answering the question and see what happens… Quote: You're a troll who's method is that of time wasting, you make people waste time whilst investing very little of your own No, no and no, in that order. I'm just someone who enjoys facts. My method is to make you investigate and either be able to provide some backing for you claims, or find out that they're completely unfounded. I don't need to invest any time because I didn't make the claim to begin with — you did, so it's up to you to back it up.
Ibiza344	Posted - 2008.11.20 13:24:00 - [45] Originally by: Jinx Barker Do not even dream of it, they want their money, and they want to make sure they get it... so move on. At some point we just need to let go, and grow up, I hated their lies, and their deceit, and the way they handled the whole affair, but, I just want to be there to say "I told you so" when things will start to go tit up. So, be a good boy, and pay your subscriptions, after all, even CCP knows full well this game developed into the game of ALTs, and you got to pay for your ALTs training, even if you not use him for a while. No apparently they do not want my money. I will only pay the full price for accounts I can train AND play. I will not pay them $15 extra for just skill training. So with ghost training i put several accounts to rest. Just don't need them - i don't play them and am not going to pay full price for account that gets used for 20 minutes a month total. And practically everybody I have talked to in game said the same thing - that they will pay only for accounts that they are playing, not for accounts that were just training skills. In summary a lot of people are not finding it justified to fork out extra $15 a month just to change skills.
Doctor Penguin Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.11.20 13:42:00 - [46] Obo, I worry that you're accusing people of being trolls when you responded to one of my posts with "That's what your girlfiend said." Ghost Training was never a feature. It was something the devs could not be bothered to put on TQ because the very few people who used it didn't harm the game. Large amounts of GT was creating a network of alts to avoid character progression (which is my personal reason) and cheat money out of CCP. Go find another p2p MMO that lets you do this. Oh wait! You can't. ________________________________________________
Ibiza344	Posted - 2008.11.20 14:20:00 - [47] Originally by: Doctor Penguin Go find another p2p MMO that lets you do this. Oh wait! You can't. It is a silly argument to say that because other games don't provide what EVE does means that we should cut it out from EVE too.
Ranger 1 Amarr Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.11.20 14:43:00 - [48] Edited by: Ranger 1 on 20/11/2008 14:45:30 All aboard the fail train... next stop: Last Month. All other logical arguments aside, with your proposal this simple fact remains. I have two accounts and pay a total of $30 for the two of them a month. You have two accounts. One is full and one is training only. You pay a total of $18 a month. 6 months later you switch your training account to a full account (to play, trade, whatever.) Now lets compare, what do we both have? We both have two accounts with 6 months of training on them each. If we go head to head, we are on equal footing as far as skills go. The only difference is you paid a fraction of the price I did. Oh hell no. ===== * Your signature image is broken. Please use one that works - Fallout
Meili Noziroh	Posted - 2008.11.20 14:47:00 - [49] Edited by: Meili Noziroh on 20/11/2008 14:47:58 Originally by: Ranger 1 Now lets compare, what do we both have? We both have two accounts with 6 months of training on them each. If we go head to head, we are on equal footing as far as skills go. The only difference is you paid a fraction of the price I did. Oh hell no. You forget you also had a hauler, scout, cyno-alt, tackler, spy, salvager or whatever else you used the account for, for those 6 months.
Ranger 1 Amarr Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.11.20 14:55:00 - [50] Originally by: Meili Noziroh Edited by: Meili Noziroh on 20/11/2008 14:47:58 Originally by: Ranger 1 Now lets compare, what do we both have? We both have two accounts with 6 months of training on them each. If we go head to head, we are on equal footing as far as skills go. The only difference is you paid a fraction of the price I did. Oh hell no. You forget you also had a hauler, scout, cyno-alt, tackler, spy, salvager or whatever else you used the account for, for those 6 months. No I did not forget that. My point is that 6 months later, Shazam, you suddenly have all of those as well... for a fraction of the price. If you can't understand that, you probably never will. ===== * Now I know how George Washington felt when Napoleon bombed him at Pearl Harbor. - Beast Boy
ouroboros trading Gallente Medics On Fire	Posted - 2008.11.20 15:04:00 - [51] Originally by: Ranger 1 Originally by: Meili Noziroh Edited by: Meili Noziroh on 20/11/2008 14:47:58 Originally by: Ranger 1 Now lets compare, what do we both have? We both have two accounts with 6 months of training on them each. If we go head to head, we are on equal footing as far as skills go. The only difference is you paid a fraction of the price I did. Oh hell no. You forget you also had a hauler, scout, cyno-alt, tackler, spy, salvager or whatever else you used the account for, for those 6 months. No I did not forget that. My point is that 6 months later, Shazam, you suddenly have all of those as well... for a fraction of the price. If you can't understand that, you probably never will. when the brain eating aliens from outer-space invade, you'll be safe.
ouroboros trading Gallente Medics On Fire	Posted - 2008.11.20 15:07:00 - [52] Originally by: Ibiza344 Originally by: Doctor Penguin Go find another p2p MMO that lets you do this. Oh wait! You can't. It is a silly argument to say that because other games don't provide what EVE does means that we should cut it out from EVE too. indeed they've all gone into nonsensical negative reasoning territory, which is the level that the popular axiom "don't argue with idiots, they only bring you down to their level.." refers to ^_^
Praytell	Posted - 2008.11.20 15:07:00 - [53] Edited by: Praytell on 20/11/2008 15:12:31 Honestly, I don't care who you are, everyone has Ghost trained in the EVE career atleast once. Unless you are rich and can afford to pay every month or play on yearly subscriptions. I'm tired of this bull crap about people hating Ghost Training and how unfair it is when they know they have used it. Ex. Pay check doesnt look to pretty at the end of the month you have to put something aside, guess what? It's EVE and you hate it but somethings got to give... last day of your subscription comes up and your like "Crap I really need to train something..." In turn you pick the longest skill possible and in another turn you are a GHOST TRAINER... So shut your whinning, "Its so unfair" mouths. You know your all guilty even me.
Chelone Ministry of War	Posted - 2008.11.20 21:40:00 - [54] Originally by: Ibiza344 I will only pay the full price for accounts I can train AND play. I will not pay them $15 extra for just skill training. So with ghost training i put several accounts to rest. Just don't need them - i don't play them and am not going to pay full price for account that gets used for 20 minutes a month total. Exactly. But the stupid trolls on this forum won't listen to this very basic and obvious logic. Cheaper skill-train accounts is an excellent idea. Which is why it won't happen. Oh, and they got rid of Eve Tournament? Eve is dead. You've heard it here first.
Karille Gallente Lordless	Posted - 2008.11.20 21:46:00 - [55] I ghost trained the crap out of Gal BS 5, but I can easily see why they removed it. From the things I've seen the devs/marketing say I don't think there's a chance that they'd like the OP's idea though.
Tippia Caldari Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2008.11.20 21:50:00 - [56] Originally by: Chelone Eve is dead. You've heard it here first. No. I heard it first the first time I visited these forums. From what I hear, that goes for everyone who's ever visited them. ≡v≡ died in 2003. No sig for me, thankyouverymuch.
Ticondrius Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.20 21:56:00 - [57] I like this idea. Yes, CCP wouldn't get as much as if someone was paying a full sub, but think of all the accounts laying unused now because of the removal of Ghost Training? That's revenue they wouldn't otherwise have. From a business perspective, they might lose some normal subs to the ghost training gtc, but they might also regain a number of subs to the ghost training ETC, evening it out. Result? Happy users, and no or better change in revenue for CCP. :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- PROPOSAL: Good Bug Reporting Incentives MMORPG: Many Men Online Role Playing Girls
Chelone Ministry of War	Posted - 2008.11.20 22:01:00 - [58] Edited by: Chelone on 20/11/2008 22:03:32 Originally by: Tippia ≡v≡ died in 2003. More like 2006 I'd say. Whenever it became a capital ship game. Oh, it's still moving though, but it's kind of like weekend at bernies...
Nakimoto Caldari Unnatural Growth Apotheosis of Virtue	Posted - 2008.11.20 22:20:00 - [59] super solution allow training of 2 toons per account. everyone keeps an alt but still pays for the sub. Bigger bonus to true alt accounts paying for subs.
Jacob Mei	Posted - 2008.11.20 23:00:00 - [60] This community has some serious issues it needs to work out. Somehow after bringing up an idea that someone else proposed that I thought interesting I seem to have been accused of being a cheapskate (I have three accounts and pay for two of them with real cash btw) and for the most part this thread has devolved into another ôoh they shouldnÆt have removed ghost training in the first placeö topic. I myself have never let any of my accounts lapse (though the bank has blocked payment a few times due to them interpreting the payment intervals as a potential theft) so what the loss of ghost training has not effected me directly I simply thought that: 1. The idea of a ghost training ETC was an interesting idea that deserved to be brought to the attention of the community. 2. That it might be financially viable to CCP to meet those who used ghost training half way, IE have them pay just to allow the current skill they were training to continue and nothing else. In any can please get back to the topic that I created as opposed to the complaining that the thread has devolved into?

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