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Jacob Mei
   |
Posted - 2008.11.20 03:18:00 -
[1]
A few weeks ago I was chatting with a fellow in corp channel about the removal of ghost training. He had the idea of essentially CCP offering a type of ETC that was in essance a super cheap ETC that would allow whatever skill he was training to continue to do so even if he wouldnt be allowed to log on.
I dont know if something like this has been discussed, but in these economicly troubling times paying say two or three dollars to CCP to have the right to continue training whatever skill I have training even if I cant play the rest of the game certainly would seem to be a fair middle ground. Anyway just a thought. |
Tatianna
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Posted - 2008.11.20 03:20:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Tatianna on 20/11/2008 03:20:41
If it does not bring in CCP alot more cash, it ain't gonna happen. |
Jacob Mei
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 03:23:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Tatianna
Edited by: Tatianna on 20/11/2008 03:20:41
If it does not bring in CCP alot more cash, it ain't gonna happen.
I would think it would bring in more cash for CCP to let players pay to "ghost train". |
Tatianna
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 03:24:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Jacob Mei
Originally by: Tatianna
Edited by: Tatianna on 20/11/2008 03:20:41
If it does not bring in CCP alot more cash, it ain't gonna happen.
I would think it would bring in more cash for CCP to let players pay to "ghost train".
Their idea for paying for ghost training is you pay them their monthly sub, and than train a long skill and don't log on. |
Jacob Mei
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 03:27:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Tatianna
Originally by: Jacob Mei
Originally by: Tatianna
Edited by: Tatianna on 20/11/2008 03:20:41
If it does not bring in CCP alot more cash, it ain't gonna happen.
I would think it would bring in more cash for CCP to let players pay to "ghost train".
Their idea for paying for ghost training is you pay them their monthly sub, and than train a long skill and don't log on.
Well think of this then, how many accounts did people have ghost training that they didnt renew? If CCP said "give us 3 bucks per account and you can just train those characters again" do you think people would go for it?
Im not advocating the idea but rather bringing to light an idea someone had that as far as I know wasnt mentioned on the forums. |
Opertone
Caldari
SIEGE.
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 03:28:00 -
[6]
unfair, i can't say how much i hate people with numerous alts, whom i can't beat. I like playing with main characters, but hate fighting really maxxed out ghost trained alts.
it gives too much advantage for other players, there is more than enough hardcore alts. |
Tatianna
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 03:29:00 -
[7]
They removed ghost training for a reason plain and simple...people were not paying for that long training time. Why would they turn around now and offer up something that still reduces their income for the same thing they just removed? |
Kylar Renpurs
Dusk Blade
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 03:30:00 -
[8]
Quote:
Well think of this then, how many accounts did people have ghost training that they didnt renew? If CCP said "give us 3 bucks per account and you can just train those characters again" do you think people would go for it?
None. They did it because it was free. If CCP removed it and said "pay a small fee if you still want to do it" the same drama bomb still would've been dropped by ghost trainers. |
Jacob Mei
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 03:33:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Kylar Renpurs
Quote:
Well think of this then, how many accounts did people have ghost training that they didnt renew? If CCP said "give us 3 bucks per account and you can just train those characters again" do you think people would go for it?
None. They did it because it was free. If CCP removed it and said "pay a small fee if you still want to do it" the same drama bomb still would've been dropped by ghost trainers.
I see your point though what I mean now as opposed to then. IE next week CCP came and said they were to introduce a 3 USD ETC to allow you to just train a character on an account. |
Jinx Barker
GFB Scientific
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 03:44:00 -
[10]
If you watch the fanfest video there is an interesting comment that can be heard as the devs at the table playing with Rubik's cubes and drinking beer. And the comment was along the lines of "marketing department is very interested in ... all things skill related."
In other words, why the hell would CCP and their bean counters accept 3 dollars, or 5 dollars, or 10 dollars a month for "inactive skill training," when they can charge the full amount?
Do not even dream of it, they want their money, and they want to make sure they get it... so move on. At some point we just need to let go, and grow up, I hated their lies, and their deceit, and the way they handled the whole affair, but, I just want to be there to say "I told you so" when things will start to go tit up.
So, be a good boy, and pay your subscriptions, after all, even CCP knows full well this game developed into the game of ALTs, and you got to pay for your ALTs training, even if you not use him for a while. |
Oftherocks
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 06:18:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Jinx Barker
If you watch the fanfest video there is an interesting comment that can be heard as the devs at the table playing with Rubik's cubes and drinking beer. And the comment was along the lines of "marketing department is very interested in ... all things skill related."
In other words, why the hell would CCP and their bean counters accept 3 dollars, or 5 dollars, or 10 dollars a month for "inactive skill training," when they can charge the full amount?
Do not even dream of it, they want their money, and they want to make sure they get it... so move on. At some point we just need to let go, and grow up, I hated their lies, and their deceit, and the way they handled the whole affair, but, I just want to be there to say "I told you so" when things will start to go tit up.
So, be a good boy, and pay your subscriptions, after all, even CCP knows full well this game developed into the game of ALTs, and you got to pay for your ALTs training, even if you not use him for a while.
Wow! You need to chill out dude, OP was just presenting an idea he thought might be a good compromise. |
Tortun Nahme
Minmatar
Umbra Synergy
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 06:20:00 -
[12]
this idea would work if it had more troll functionality, as in letting me post while subbed with a ghost etc
|
Gonada
Priory Of The Lemon
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.20 07:15:00 -
[13]
enough you cheap bastiges.
if you cant afford to pay for eve you cant afford to play eve |
Malcanis
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.11.20 09:20:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Tatianna
Originally by: Jacob Mei
Originally by: Tatianna
Edited by: Tatianna on 20/11/2008 03:20:41
If it does not bring in CCP alot more cash, it ain't gonna happen.
I would think it would bring in more cash for CCP to let players pay to "ghost train".
Their idea for paying for ghost training is you pay them their monthly sub, and than train a long skill and don't log on.
Wheras of course the reality is that accounts are just left to lapse.
|
Venkul Mul
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 09:37:00 -
[15]
Even if I haven't ever used ghost training it seem a interesting idea.
An alternative could be to pay an extra to train a second character on the same account. You would be still be only capable of logging 1 character for each account at the same time, but you could train a second character at the same time paying (for example) 5 extra dollars or euro. I never trained alts on my mains accounts as I strongly dislike nerfing the SP they get, but an option to pay to train the extra characters would be nice.
|
ouroboros trading
Gallente
Medics On Fire
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 09:42:00 -
[16]
people seem to have no idea how much it costs for a database entry to be modified... once per month? (exactly how does it work, is anything even modified?).
it was a feature advertised as a courtesy, then changed into a bug exploited as a loophole.
we are at war with ghost training.
we have always been at war with ghost training.
|
Tzar'rim
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 10:08:00 -
[17]
Originally by: ouroboros trading
people seem to have no idea how much it costs for a database entry to be modified... once per month? (exactly how does it work, is anything even modified?).
it was a feature advertised as a courtesy, then changed into a bug exploited as a loophole.
we are at war with ghost training.
we have always been at war with ghost training.
Wrong, it was a bug they couldn't solve and then told it to be a feature. Now they focussed on it and were able to squish the bug and thus they removed it.
Don't turn around logic to push your own agenda :) |
ouroboros trading
Gallente
Medics On Fire
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 10:18:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Tzar'rim
Originally by: ouroboros trading
people seem to have no idea how much it costs for a database entry to be modified... once per month? (exactly how does it work, is anything even modified?).
it was a feature advertised as a courtesy, then changed into a bug exploited as a loophole.
we are at war with ghost training.
we have always been at war with ghost training.
Wrong, it was a bug they couldn't solve and then told it to be a feature. Now they focussed on it and were able to squish the bug and thus they removed it.
Don't turn around logic to push your own agenda :)
only took them 3 years and as many excuses (in the same day) to remove it ;(
srsly demonising the playerbase as justification of removing what the vast majority of players only ever knew as a feature, and used thusly (not exploited as CCP put it) advertised by CCP numerous times not only in their player guide was a display of totally inept social manipulation - that of getting players to support you by demonising a group within the playerbase.
Of course eve online players are intelligent chaps & chapesses, seeing right though what was blatantly a money grab coinciding precisely with the world wide economic recession.
I have no agenda :) |
Tippia
Caldari
Raddick Explorations
BlackWater.
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 10:21:00 -
[19]
Originally by: ouroboros trading
advertised by CCP numerous times not only in their player guide
No, it was not "advertised" — it was described (and by a third party at that, not CCP).
The player guides describe fact, not intent. Now the facts have changed. |
ouroboros trading
Gallente
Medics On Fire
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 10:32:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: ouroboros trading
advertised by CCP numerous times not only in their player guide
No, it was not "advertised" ù it was described (and by a third party at that, not CCP).
The player guides describe fact, not intent. Now the facts have changed.
i'm sorry but no weasal-worded lawyering changes that if a games company descibes a mechanic in the player guide to be made use of, and used as a selling point of their product by people on CCP's payroll when interacting with new players, it becomes a feature. CCP did their level best to turn that 'fact' into a 'feature' 
nice try on blurring fact and intent though :) |
Tzar'rim
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 10:37:00 -
[21]
Your reasoning would have merit if CCP didn't have a history of turning bugs/problems into a feature. Features that are there not because they want them, but because they can't solve them.
They now can, so they do.
|
Zaknussem
Caldari
Intrum Industria
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 10:38:00 -
[22]
So when is CCP going to ride this train to the end station and remove all benefits from inactive accounts? Market orders, corp positions, science & industry jobs and accumulated Research Points?
All of these will improve a character on an inactive account without CCP seeing a dime.
The OP's idea is a good one, but CCP simply doesn't have what it takes to implement it. |
Berious
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 10:41:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Jinx Barker
If you watch the fanfest video there is an interesting comment that can be heard as the devs at the table playing with Rubik's cubes and drinking beer. And the comment was along the lines of "marketing department is very interested in ... all things skill related."
That should make anyone nervous. I'm sure some bean counter has already had the bright idea of selling skillpoints for cash.
|
ouroboros trading
Gallente
Medics On Fire
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 10:44:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Tzar'rim
Your reasoning would have merit if CCP didn't have a history of turning bugs/problems into a feature. Features that are there not because they want them, but because they can't solve them.
They now can, so they do.
what other bugs/problems have they used to sell their product in the past? Were they also allowed to persist for years?
|
Washell Olivaw
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Posted - 2008.11.20 10:46:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Tzar'rim
Wrong, it was a bug they couldn't solve and then told it to be a feature. Now they focussed on it and were able to squish the bug and thus they removed it.
Don't turn around logic to push your own agenda :)
It was fixed by the china team 3 years ago without effort. They didn't copy the fix back then because ghost training was only used sporadically. These days, people were designing their training plans around it, which was a bit too much too swallow.
Originally by: Signature
Everybody has a photographic memory, some people just don't have film.
|
Tippia
Caldari
Raddick Explorations
BlackWater.
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 10:46:00 -
[26]
Originally by: ouroboros trading
i'm sorry but no weasal-worded lawyering changes that if a games company descibes a mechanic in the player guide to be made use of, and used as a selling point of their product by people on CCP's payroll when interacting with new players
I've never seen it being used as a selling point — the player guide certainly does not apply for the reasons mentioned.
Quote:
nice try on blurring fact and intent though
I think you've got the two of us confused. That's what you're trying to do — I'm keeping the separate.
No sig for me, thankyouverymuch. |
ouroboros trading
Gallente
Medics On Fire
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 10:51:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Berious
Originally by: Jinx Barker
If you watch the fanfest video there is an interesting comment that can be heard as the devs at the table playing with Rubik's cubes and drinking beer. And the comment was along the lines of "marketing department is very interested in ... all things skill related."
That should make anyone nervous. I'm sure some bean counter has already had the bright idea of selling skillpoints for cash.
/crystal ball
Intelligence Downloads In Optimal Time (or IDIOT for short); players can now enjoy, thanks to the IDIOT scheme, an increased rate of skillpoint accumulation for only an additional $5 per month.
|
ouroboros trading
Gallente
Medics On Fire
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 10:53:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Tippia
I've never seen it being used as a selling point
likewise, there is no deforestation of the amazon basin because i cannot hear it. |
Tippia
Caldari
Raddick Explorations
BlackWater.
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 10:59:00 -
[29]
Originally by: ouroboros trading
Originally by: Tippia
I've never seen it being used as a selling point
To bad I can't prove it, so I'll use irrelevant comparisons instead.
Yes, but it would be nice if you could prove it though, wouldn't it? I have yet to see anyone actually produce something that shows CCP using ghost training as a selling point. |
ouroboros trading
Gallente
Medics On Fire
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 11:02:00 -
[30]
let's cancel the tournament as well while we're at it. something tons of eve players enjoy, something other mmos manage quite well. nah, cost's too much they'll say but subscriber numbers are up?!
oh wait they already did. and eve TV. and they've called adding one ship and some buggy features an expansion . well it does have it's own name and log in screen.
methinks the bean counters are firmly in charge already :) |
ouroboros trading
Gallente
Medics On Fire
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 11:06:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Tippia
i strawman peoples comments when i quote them because i know i have lost and can only spin my own lack of knowledge off as a form of knowledge in itself of course i don't realise how idiotic that is :)
advertising it as a feature and countless times having ccp staff (not other players) tell players about itkinda counts. i win.
|
Tippia
Caldari
Raddick Explorations
BlackWater.
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 11:07:00 -
[32]
Originally by: ouroboros trading
advertising it as a feature and countless times having ccp staff (not other players) tell players about itkinda counts.
Only if you can prove it.
No sig for me, thankyouverymuch. |
Furb Killer
Gallente
The Scope
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 11:10:00 -
[33]
It wasnt advertised, they mentioned it was possible. And now comes the shocking moment, it was possible. So i really dont see the problem.
---------------------------------------------
Originally by: Neth'Rae
Military experts are calling this a troll.
|
Mankirks Wife
Caldari
Space Furry Association
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 11:35:00 -
[34]
I always found ETC / Ghost training whines amusing. We all play a game that glorifies capitalism, then complain when CCP acts like they want all the money they can get out of it.  |
Tasty Bit
Gallente
UNITED STAR SYNDICATE
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 11:38:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Opertone
unfair, i can't say how much i hate people with numerous alts, whom i can't beat. I like playing with main characters, but hate fighting really maxxed out ghost trained alts.
it gives too much advantage for other players, there is more than enough hardcore alts.
I'm not telling you how to play the game, just highlighting other options available to you. |
ouroboros trading
Gallente
Medics On Fire
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 11:42:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: ouroboros trading
advertising it as a feature and countless times having ccp staff (not other players) tell players about itkinda counts.
Only if you can prove it.
let me begin.
http://myeve.eve-online.com/updates/patchnotes.asp?patchlogID=99
note the green text at the bottom, reading; "On the Serenity server, skills no longer train when the owning account is deactivated. Tranquility is not affected by this change."
whoa, so the fix existed years ago? neat. and it's pleasantly called a change not a bug fix.
given you now know that the fixchange for this existed years ago yet was only implemented amidst a swathe of cash grabs and terrible excuses the players ripped apart, the inclusion of the ghost training feature in the new player section of the player guide (so pertaining to those on a trial account, not yet paying customers)...
hang on, you still want me to waste my precious time finding quotes for you from ccp staff from the archives (not even sure i'd know how to do that in any time-efficient manner, if anyone cares to suggest a good method :)?)? I think i've done enough for now, your turn, stop trying to play chess by skipping every move  |
H Lecter
Gallente
The Black Rabbits
The Gurlstas Associates
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 11:53:00 -
[37]
First to the OP - interesting idea, though I would not make use of it very often. I have one account and never suspended my subscription.
Regarding CCP being an 'evil greedy' company - would it make you people happy if they went bankrupt and Eve became a piece of video game history? If this game is so flawed and the business practices are so unfair, I really wonder why you're still playing...
That being said, the PR around the ghost training fix/change was really poor, but I tend to prefer a good game with bad PR over a bad game with good PR 
My opinion is purely personal and not related to my alliance |
Tippia
Caldari
Raddick Explorations
BlackWater.
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 11:55:00 -
[38]
Originally by: ouroboros trading
http://myeve.eve-online.com/updates/patchnotes.asp?patchlogID=99
note the green text at the bottom, reading; "On the Serenity server, skills no longer train when the owning account is deactivated. Tranquility is not affected by this change."
Yes? Where's the advertisement of a feature?
Quote:
given you now know that the fixchange for this existed years ago yet was only implemented amidst a swathe of cash grabs and terrible excuses the players ripped apart
Yes? They finally found it a problem worth fixing. Where's the advertisement of a feature?
Quote:
the inclusion of the ghost training feature in the new player section of the player guide (so pertaining to those on a trial account, not yet paying customers)...
Yes? It describe how the game worked at the time. Where's the advertisement of feature?
Quote:
hang on, you still want me to waste my precious time finding quotes for you from ccp staff from the archives?
Since that's what you claim and thus what you need to prove, yes.
Quote:
I think i've done enough for now
Ok, if you think so. You still haven't shown it advertised as a feature, nor have you shown CCP staff touting it as such.
So if you want to prove your claim at a later point rather than now, please do.
No sig for me, thankyouverymuch. |
ouroboros trading
Gallente
Medics On Fire
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 11:56:00 -
[39]
stop skipping moves.
|
Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 11:59:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Tzar'rim
Wrong, it was a bug they couldn't solve and then told it to be a feature. Now they focussed on it and were able to squish the bug and thus they removed it.
Don't turn around logic to push your own agenda :)
Funny how that "bug" never existed on the Chinese server, which ran years side by side with the "buggy" Tranqulity-server.
Don't defend CCP when you do just as bad a job as they do justifying the decision ;)
|
Tippia
Caldari
Raddick Explorations
BlackWater.
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 11:59:00 -
[41]
Originally by: ouroboros trading
stop skipping moves.
Stop avoiding the question.
No sig for me, thankyouverymuch. |
ouroboros trading
Gallente
Medics On Fire
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 12:08:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: ouroboros trading
stop skipping moves.
Stop avoiding the question.
Come now, i know you're simply employing typical smokescreen questioning that's typical of someone who's cornered, you've totally ignored the thrust of my arguement because it's backed up by evidence i spent too-long finding (that they knew how to easily change the system years ago but never). You'll simply slide round any piece of evidence i spend yet more time finding with the god-awful search tool.
You're a troll who's method is that of time wasting, you make people waste time whilst investing very little of your own, i.e. skipping moves, moving the knight back and forth :)
oh wait... I found a link to all the evidence :) |
Jinx Barker
GFB Scientific
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 12:42:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Zaknussem
So when is CCP going to ride this train to the end station and remove all benefits from inactive accounts? Market orders, corp positions, science & industry jobs and accumulated Research Points?
All of these will improve a character on an inactive account without CCP seeing a dime.
The OP's idea is a good one, but CCP simply doesn't have what it takes to implement it.
That would be my question as well, at this point, the inactive accounts should:
Stop Accumulating RP
All Market Orders Canceled
Stop Building Jobs
This would be fair, and would really make people who pay for their accounts benefit.
|
Tippia
Caldari
Raddick Explorations
BlackWater.
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 13:07:00 -
[44]
Originally by: ouroboros trading
Come now, i know you're simply employing typical smokescreen questioning that's typical of someone who's cornered
No. I'm asking you to prove what you claim.
Quote:
you've totally ignored the thrust of my arguement because it's backed up by evidence i spent too-long finding (that they knew how to easily change the system years ago but never).
The problem is that your evidence and your argument doesn't back up your claim. "Not fixing" ≠ "Advertising as a feature." Not fixing it simply means they didn't see it as a problem.
Quote:
You'll simply slide round any piece of evidence i spend yet more time finding with the god-awful search tool.
Why would I, especially if it actually proves that they've advertised it as a feature? You'll notice that I've kept asking the same question and you have consistently failed to answer it. Try answering the question and see what happens…
Quote:
You're a troll who's method is that of time wasting, you make people waste time whilst investing very little of your own
No, no and no, in that order. I'm just someone who enjoys facts. My method is to make you investigate and either be able to provide some backing for you claims, or find out that they're completely unfounded. I don't need to invest any time because I didn't make the claim to begin with — you did, so it's up to you to back it up. |
Ibiza344
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 13:24:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Jinx Barker
Do not even dream of it, they want their money, and they want to make sure they get it... so move on. At some point we just need to let go, and grow up, I hated their lies, and their deceit, and the way they handled the whole affair, but, I just want to be there to say "I told you so" when things will start to go tit up.
So, be a good boy, and pay your subscriptions, after all, even CCP knows full well this game developed into the game of ALTs, and you got to pay for your ALTs training, even if you not use him for a while.
No apparently they do not want my money. I will only pay the full price for accounts I can train AND play. I will not pay them $15 extra for just skill training. So with ghost training i put several accounts to rest. Just don't need them - i don't play them and am not going to pay full price for account that gets used for 20 minutes a month total.
And practically everybody I have talked to in game said the same thing - that they will pay only for accounts that they are playing, not for accounts that were just training skills. In summary a lot of people are not finding it justified to fork out extra $15 a month just to change skills.
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Doctor Penguin
Amarr
Imperial Academy
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 13:42:00 -
[46]
Obo, I worry that you're accusing people of being trolls when you responded to one of my posts with "That's what your girlfiend said."
Ghost Training was never a feature. It was something the devs could not be bothered to put on TQ because the very few people who used it didn't harm the game. Large amounts of GT was creating a network of alts to avoid character progression (which is my personal reason) and cheat money out of CCP.
Go find another p2p MMO that lets you do this. Oh wait! You can't.
________________________________________________
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Ibiza344
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 14:20:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Doctor Penguin
Go find another p2p MMO that lets you do this. Oh wait! You can't.
It is a silly argument to say that because other games don't provide what EVE does means that we should cut it out from EVE too.
|
Ranger 1
Amarr
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 14:43:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Ranger 1 on 20/11/2008 14:45:30
All aboard the fail train... next stop: Last Month.
All other logical arguments aside, with your proposal this simple fact remains.
I have two accounts and pay a total of $30 for the two of them a month.
You have two accounts. One is full and one is training only. You pay a total of $18 a month.
6 months later you switch your training account to a full account (to play, trade, whatever.)
Now lets compare, what do we both have?
We both have two accounts with 6 months of training on them each. If we go head to head, we are on equal footing as far as skills go.
The only difference is you paid a fraction of the price I did.
Oh hell no.
=====
* Your signature image is broken. Please use one that works - Fallout |
Meili Noziroh
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 14:47:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Meili Noziroh on 20/11/2008 14:47:58
Originally by: Ranger 1
Now lets compare, what do we both have?
We both have two accounts with 6 months of training on them each. If we go head to head, we are on equal footing as far as skills go.
The only difference is you paid a fraction of the price I did.
Oh hell no.
You forget you also had a hauler, scout, cyno-alt, tackler, spy, salvager or whatever else you used the account for, for those 6 months.
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Ranger 1
Amarr
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 14:55:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Meili Noziroh
Edited by: Meili Noziroh on 20/11/2008 14:47:58
Originally by: Ranger 1
Now lets compare, what do we both have?
We both have two accounts with 6 months of training on them each. If we go head to head, we are on equal footing as far as skills go.
The only difference is you paid a fraction of the price I did.
Oh hell no.
You forget you also had a hauler, scout, cyno-alt, tackler, spy, salvager or whatever else you used the account for, for those 6 months.
No I did not forget that. My point is that 6 months later, Shazam, you suddenly have all of those as well... for a fraction of the price.
If you can't understand that, you probably never will.
=====
* Now I know how George Washington felt when Napoleon bombed him at Pearl Harbor. - Beast Boy |
ouroboros trading
Gallente
Medics On Fire
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 15:04:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Ranger 1
Originally by: Meili Noziroh
Edited by: Meili Noziroh on 20/11/2008 14:47:58
Originally by: Ranger 1
Now lets compare, what do we both have?
We both have two accounts with 6 months of training on them each. If we go head to head, we are on equal footing as far as skills go.
The only difference is you paid a fraction of the price I did.
Oh hell no.
You forget you also had a hauler, scout, cyno-alt, tackler, spy, salvager or whatever else you used the account for, for those 6 months.
No I did not forget that. My point is that 6 months later, Shazam, you suddenly have all of those as well... for a fraction of the price.
If you can't understand that, you probably never will.
when the brain eating aliens from outer-space invade, you'll be safe.
|
ouroboros trading
Gallente
Medics On Fire
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 15:07:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Ibiza344
Originally by: Doctor Penguin
Go find another p2p MMO that lets you do this. Oh wait! You can't.
It is a silly argument to say that because other games don't provide what EVE does means that we should cut it out from EVE too.
indeed they've all gone into nonsensical negative reasoning territory, which is the level that the popular axiom "don't argue with idiots, they only bring you down to their level.." refers to ^_^ |
Praytell
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 15:07:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Praytell on 20/11/2008 15:12:31
Honestly, I don't care who you are, everyone has Ghost trained in the EVE career atleast once. Unless you are rich and can afford to pay every month or play on yearly subscriptions. I'm tired of this bull crap about people hating Ghost Training and how unfair it is when they know they have used it. Ex. Pay check doesnt look to pretty at the end of the month you have to put something aside, guess what? It's EVE and you hate it but somethings got to give... last day of your subscription comes up and your like "Crap I really need to train something..." In turn you pick the longest skill possible and in another turn you are a GHOST TRAINER...
So shut your whinning, "Its so unfair" mouths. You know your all guilty even me.
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Chelone
Ministry of War
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 21:40:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Ibiza344
I will only pay the full price for accounts I can train AND play. I will not pay them $15 extra for just skill training. So with ghost training i put several accounts to rest. Just don't need them - i don't play them and am not going to pay full price for account that gets used for 20 minutes a month total.
Exactly. But the stupid trolls on this forum won't listen to this very basic and obvious logic. Cheaper skill-train accounts is an excellent idea. Which is why it won't happen.
Oh, and they got rid of Eve Tournament? Eve is dead. You've heard it here first. 
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Karille
Gallente
Lordless
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 21:46:00 -
[55]
I ghost trained the crap out of Gal BS 5, but I can easily see why they removed it.
From the things I've seen the devs/marketing say I don't think there's a chance that they'd like the OP's idea though.
|
Tippia
Caldari
Raddick Explorations
BlackWater.
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 21:50:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Chelone
Eve is dead. You've heard it here first.
No. I heard it first the first time I visited these forums. From what I hear, that goes for everyone who's ever visited them.
≡v≡ died in 2003.
No sig for me, thankyouverymuch. |
Ticondrius
Southern Cross Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 21:56:00 -
[57]
I like this idea. Yes, CCP wouldn't get as much as if someone was paying a full sub, but think of all the accounts laying unused now because of the removal of Ghost Training? That's revenue they wouldn't otherwise have. From a business perspective, they might lose some normal subs to the ghost training gtc, but they might also regain a number of subs to the ghost training ETC, evening it out. Result? Happy users, and no or better change in revenue for CCP. :)
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
PROPOSAL: Good Bug Reporting Incentives
MMORPG: Many Men Online Role Playing Girls |
Chelone
Ministry of War
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 22:01:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Chelone on 20/11/2008 22:03:32
Originally by: Tippia
≡v≡ died in 2003.
More like 2006 I'd say. Whenever it became a capital ship game. Oh, it's still moving though, but it's kind of like weekend at bernies... |
Nakimoto
Caldari
Unnatural Growth
Apotheosis of Virtue
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 22:20:00 -
[59]
super solution allow training of 2 toons per account. everyone keeps an alt but still pays for the sub. Bigger bonus to true alt accounts paying for subs. |
Jacob Mei
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 23:00:00 -
[60]
This community has some serious issues it needs to work out. Somehow after bringing up an idea that someone else proposed that I thought interesting I seem to have been accused of being a cheapskate (I have three accounts and pay for two of them with real cash btw) and for the most part this thread has devolved into another ôoh they shouldnÆt have removed ghost training in the first placeö topic.
I myself have never let any of my accounts lapse (though the bank has blocked payment a few times due to them interpreting the payment intervals as a potential theft) so what the loss of ghost training has not effected me directly I simply thought that:
1. The idea of a ghost training ETC was an interesting idea that deserved to be brought to the attention of the community.
2. That it might be financially viable to CCP to meet those who used ghost training half way, IE have them pay just to allow the current skill they were training to continue and nothing else.
In any can please get back to the topic that I created as opposed to the complaining that the thread has devolved into?
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Helios III
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 23:37:00 -
[61]
OP: Yep this seems like a good idea to me. I have only ever had one account myself, but I think I would be willing to pay a few dollars per month to have another character training skills up.
Ouro: What are you even complaining about? I honestly don't understand what your beef with CCP is... you talk about a 'swathe of cash grabs' by them, what are these exactly? Also, just to be clear, you totally failed to prove your point about CCP advertising ghost training as a feature. Keep pwning him Tippia. |
Dr NAthan
|
Posted - 2008.11.21 03:39:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Gonada
enough you cheap bastiges.
if you cant afford to pay for eve you cant afford to play eve
Just had to be one idiot who did not understand what people are on about and reduce it down to money...I can afford 10s of EvE account if I wanted, question is why would you want to?
This is all about fun and having 2 characters + in my eyes defeats the point of why you play, just taking the game too far and taking it too serious, 1 account each would encourage people to group more, I.E carebears and PvPers.
I refuse to pay for another account because if it has come to the point where people NEED to have more than 1 then CCP need to take a look at the future of the game.
Now if someone had 2 accounts but those 2 accounts could not interact with each other or people could not dual client then that IMO would be ok, I mean where does it stop? I bet some people have a stupid amount of accounts lol, and if it is not for the means to make REAL money then it has to be said....it's pathetic. |
Berious
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2008.11.21 04:17:00 -
[63]
My neckbeard is better groomed than your neckbeard.
|
Ranger 1
Amarr
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2008.11.21 05:53:00 -
[64]
Originally by: ouroboros trading
Originally by: Ranger 1
Originally by: Meili Noziroh
Edited by: Meili Noziroh on 20/11/2008 14:47:58
Originally by: Ranger 1
Now lets compare, what do we both have?
We both have two accounts with 6 months of training on them each. If we go head to head, we are on equal footing as far as skills go.
The only difference is you paid a fraction of the price I did.
Oh hell no.
You forget you also had a hauler, scout, cyno-alt, tackler, spy, salvager or whatever else you used the account for, for those 6 months.
No I did not forget that. My point is that 6 months later, Shazam, you suddenly have all of those as well... for a fraction of the price.
If you can't understand that, you probably never will.
when the brain eating aliens from outer-space invade, you'll be safe.
Thank you for your useful and insightful contribution to this thread.
Lets put this in more practical terms.
You and I both have a main character that is the breadwinner industrial character, we also have a second account for a PVP skilled character.
I play and pay for both accounts.
You play your main and keep training the PVP account to use if you happen to get into a war.
At the end of that year we both have an account with a decently skilled industrialist to keep the isk flowing. About that time we become involved in a war with each other so you upgrade your second account to full status. After the war you'll down grade the PVP account again to keep training.
What do we have? We both have two equally trained characters. Your industry and your PVP characters are equal in every way to my own.
The difference? You paid a LOT less than I did.
In the original proposal you can keep 5 accounts training for the same price as the 1 account that I actually play.
See the problem now?
The ways that this proposal could be exploited are many and varied, but lets not delve into waters to deep.
I'm not even going to go into CCP's viewpoint on their game other than to say they made the game to be played, not to be a training simulator. They could probably make a bit more money in the short run if they did as the OP proposes, right up until people got fed up with it and stopped playing.
Pay for the account or accounts you can afford, and quit looking for a cheap way to get a leg up over the others that do exactly that.
=====
* Now I know how George Washington felt when Napoleon bombed him at Pearl Harbor. - Beast Boy |
Wet Ferret
|
Posted - 2008.11.21 06:37:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Ranger 1
*stuff*
ISK is just as powerful as SP, so you are much better off than the dude who only actively played with one account (provided you actually did something with your alt to help out, and if you didn't then why weren't you ghost training since it was available to everyone?)
But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started. |
cragz
Caldari
CaldaCorp
Quantum Star Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.11.21 07:46:00 -
[66]
This isnt a bad Idea really, but what you have to remember like others have already said , why would CCP want $3 a month when they can have $34 ?
After all, firstly and foremost this is a BUSINESS .. SO revenue and profits will always come before the customer regardless of wethers there SERVICE is affordable or not.
This is why it makes me laff when people here say "Its only a game" because that isnt totally true is it ?
Oh and one last thought... IF you really want CCP to apply changes to the services and prices you need unity from all the player / customers and it would probably take a mass boycott of there services or a significant dent in revenue for them to even comtemplate making these changes. ( this is probably why 30 day GTC's are back via the plex cards)
1. Business Needs
2. Profit & Revenue
3. Customer ( yep were at the bottom of the prority list lol )
Oh and can I just assure people who read my post that this is not a rant ... im in a much better mood today 
|
Venkul Mul
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.11.21 09:13:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Jinx Barker
That would be my question as well, at this point, the inactive accounts should:
Stop Accumulating RP
Yes. It give a income for 0 cost so it is reasonable.
Originally by: Jinx Barker
All Market Orders Canceled
Stop Building Jobs
No on both: they both require resources to be started and don't require any activity even from a active player.
Originally by: Jinx Barker
This would be fair, and would really make people who pay for their accounts benefit.
The fairness part is valid for the RP, but not for the sell orders or build jobs. They both require isk and resources (the minerals or the items to sell) to be started, so cancelling them will be a net loss for the player, even if its account did lapse for events independent from his will (problems with the credit card payment on CCP side, as has happened several times or simply connection problems as sometime happens).
To add problems, for build jobs it would require the return of the construction materials in the player hangar, something that cancelled jobs today don't do.
Not changing that would start a incredible quantity of petitions every time the subscription was lapsed for reasons not dependant from the player.
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Angelmar
|
Posted - 2008.11.21 09:30:00 -
[68]
I did not renew two alt accts following the Ghost Training Nerf.
I'd be willing to pay a reduced price to "ghost train" though.
Can't speak for everyone, but CCP is losing revenue from my inactive accts.
|
Karille
Gallente
Lordless
|
Posted - 2008.11.21 09:46:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Angelmar
I did not renew two alt accts following the Ghost Training Nerf.
I'd be willing to pay a reduced price to "ghost train" though.
Can't speak for everyone, but CCP is losing revenue from my inactive accts.
They've already done the math and don't care about that, c/d?
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Dianalexia
|
Posted - 2008.11.21 11:58:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Ranger 1
stuff...
I have several problems with your arguments:
1. It's idiotic to ask for other people to pay more. Instead you should ask to pay less for your accounts, just like the others do (that's if you care about your money ofc).
2. You pay for entertainment, not for skill training. If you pay just for training skills then you might have Obsessive-compulsive disorder  .
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Sgt Blade
Caldari
Veto.
Veto Corp
|
Posted - 2008.11.21 12:18:00 -
[71]
1. Pay cheap subscription to ghost train lots of alts
2. Sell those alts
3. ???
4. Profit |
Slade Trillgon
Masuat'aa Matari
Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2008.11.21 12:47:00 -
[72]
If this was to go through the way to prevent the scenario Ranger 1 pointed out how about having the training on the unactive paid accounts train at their base skill point level? No bonus from learning skills or implants.
Slade
|
Ranger 1
Amarr
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2008.11.21 14:14:00 -
[73]
Edited by: Ranger 1 on 21/11/2008 14:14:41
Quote:
1. It's idiotic to ask for other people to pay more. Instead you should ask to pay less for your accounts, just like the others do (that's if you care about your money ofc).
I expect to pay the price I agreed upon for my gaming experience. I don't expect special deals, or 1/5 cost training. If CCP throws out a special deal, I'd rather expect it to make good sense and be one that is not easily exploited.
Quote:
2. You pay for entertainment, not for skill training. If you pay just for training skills then you might have Obsessive-compulsive disorder
Thank you for making my point for me, I could not have said it better myself.
|
Jacob Mei
|
Posted - 2008.11.21 17:58:00 -
[74]
Originally by: cragz
This isnt a bad Idea really, but what you have to remember like others have already said , why would CCP want $3 a month when they can have $34 ?
After all, firstly and foremost this is a BUSINESS .. SO revenue and profits will always come before the customer regardless of wethers there SERVICE is affordable or not.
This is why it makes me laff when people here say "Its only a game" because that isnt totally true is it ?
Oh and one last thought... IF you really want CCP to apply changes to the services and prices you need unity from all the player / customers and it would probably take a mass boycott of there services or a significant dent in revenue for them to even comtemplate making these changes. ( this is probably why 30 day GTC's are back via the plex cards)
1. Business Needs
2. Profit & Revenue
3. Customer ( yep were at the bottom of the prority list lol )
Oh and can I just assure people who read my post that this is not a rant ... im in a much better mood today
Oh I agree completely it is a buisness first and foremost but I have to wonder exactly how many accounts are currently unsubbed because ghost training was removed and how much money CCP could recieve by telling players to kick them a 5er to just resume training on those accounts for a month or so.
Granted there is a large number of things that could be done with a Ghost training ETC but based on all the complaints and the way the GT issue was handled this might help CCP save some face.
I mean, for arguement sake if there are 250k subs and 50k of them were GT'ing but had to stop, if CCP were to impliment something like this that would be an additional 250k USD bring brought in monthly as opposed to not being brought in at all.
Again, CCP is a buisness out to to make money, nothing wrong with that, but if CCP were to do something like this in these economicly troubling times it would help both them and their players continue to enjoy eve in the way they like to.
--------------------------------
To borrow a phrase:
Players who post are like stars, there are bright ones and those who are dim.
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