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Skira Ranos
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Posted - 2008.11.20 13:41:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Skira Ranos on 20/11/2008 13:45:19
THE CARDINAL RULES OF EVE PVP
1- THE FIRST RULE OF EVE PVP IS: Don't fly what you can't afford to lose.
This one seems obvious, but every day I see noobies and even friends and corp mates out hunting in ships that would cost more than their current wallet balance to replace.
2- THE SECOND RULE OF EVE PVP IS: DON'T FLY WHAT YOU CAN'T AFFORD TO LOSE!!
I'm really serious about that one. Why?
3- THE THIRD RULE OF EVE PVP IS: You WILL lose.
Often. The instant you decide you are going to use a ship to PvP, that ship is very very likely destined for destruction. Best to start pretending that it's already as good as gone; that way it will hurt less when it inevitably pops.
4- THE FOURTH RULE OF EVE PVP IS: Everyone (and everything) is out to get you.
The only people worthy of your trust in EVE are you friends and corp mates, and they are only worthy of trust because EVE would be a lonely place if you didn't trust someone. When you enter local, assume that everyone present is hunting you specifically. Don't take anyone's word for granted if you don't have to. And never, ever agree to a 1v1 unless you have enough backup waiting around to make your opponent pay if and when he decides to violate the duel and have his friends jump you. Speaking of which:
5- THE FIFTH RULE OF EVE PVP IS: Everything that can go wrong, will go wrong.
Always assume that: that 1v1 guy's friends WILL jump you (and they will bring a titan with them). There IS a hostile gatecamp on the other side of that gate. You are going to run out of ammo. The enemy will smartbomb all your drones. Always assume the worst, and you'll have a much better chance of being prepared when the worst comes to pass (and it will, often). Last but not least:
6: THE SIXTH RULE OF EVE PVP IS: It's a game, don't take it too seriously and HAVE FUN!
EVE is a dark, twisted, and serious game. However, the thing that we too often forget is that it is indeed a game. The reason we are playing EVE right now instead of doing the dishes or working on that report for bob at the office is that we want to enjoy ourselves. If EVE ever gets to be keyboard-breakingly anger inducing, you need to take a step back and a deep breath. It's a game; do your best, kick some ass, and try like hell not to get kicked back, but at the end of the day if you end up in your pod (or even in a clone vat) you have to remember to enjoy yourself anyway. Victory would not be so sweet without the challenges on the way.
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Skira Ranos
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Posted - 2008.11.20 13:43:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Skira Ranos on 20/11/2008 13:43:03
Oh forgot the explanation, sorry.
This is for an extensive piracy/pvp guide I'm writing at the moment, with a focus on new players.
Opinions? |
RedSplat
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.11.20 13:44:00 -
[3]
7.) Blobs.
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Gorki Andropov
FKL Combine
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Posted - 2008.11.20 13:44:00 -
[4]
7: THE SEVENTH RULE OF EVE PVP: you do not talk about EVE PvP
Hehehe :D |
Skira Ranos
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Posted - 2008.11.20 13:45:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: RedSplat
7.) Blobs.
Sarcasm/negativity duly noted. |
Goyda
Destry's Lounge
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Posted - 2008.11.20 14:04:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Skira Ranos
Originally by: RedSplat
7.) Blobs.
Sarcasm/negativity duly noted.
No this is true.
8) If a ship is in a belt in lowsec, it's a trap.
9) If you engage a ship and local starts to blow up, you've sprung the trap.
10) PAY ATTENTION to local !
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JafoPBCFR
One Stop Mining Shop
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Posted - 2008.11.20 14:05:00 -
[7]
I thought the first rule was..
"Never swim in hot oil coverd in bisquick?" |
Skira Ranos
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Posted - 2008.11.20 14:09:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Goyda
Originally by: Skira Ranos
Originally by: RedSplat
7.) Blobs.
Sarcasm/negativity duly noted.
No this is true.
8) If a ship is in a belt in lowsec, it's a trap.
9) If you engage a ship and local starts to blow up, you've sprung the trap.
10) PAY ATTENTION to local !
Well yeah, but 10 is more of a logical strategy than a rule, and 9 is not a rule at all, its a comment.
8 is blatantly untrue, as evidenced by my 10 kills in low sec belts over the last four days. |
eyesoftheworld
Caldari
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.11.20 14:10:00 -
[9]
The first rule is don;t swim untill 30 minutes after you've finished eating. |
Misina Arlath
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.11.20 14:14:00 -
[10]
Good and true rules, but EVE wouldn't be as much fun if everyone followed them.
There'd be alot less carebear tears if they all realized it was a game and they didn't fly what they couldn't afford to lose.
And there'd be alot less dead players if everyone assumed the worst 24/7 and warped to safe spots, out of the systems or cloaked everytime something showed up on local.
Then again, as long as there are humans, there will be idiots, so all is not lost. |
Skira Ranos
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Posted - 2008.11.20 14:25:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Skira Ranos on 20/11/2008 14:25:31
Originally by: Misina Arlath
Good and true rules, but EVE wouldn't be as much fun if everyone followed them.
There'd be alot less carebear tears if they all realized it was a game and they didn't fly what they couldn't afford to lose.
And there'd be alot less dead players if everyone assumed the worst 24/7 and warped to safe spots, out of the systems or cloaked everytime something showed up on local.
Then again, as long as there are humans, there will be idiots, so all is not lost.
Well yes, but by the same token the joy of hunting someone truely skilled should not be understated.
And yes, carebears will be carebears and will make stupid mistakes till the end of time. (luckily)
Glad you like. |
Artemis Rose
Sileo In Pacis
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Posted - 2008.11.20 16:02:00 -
[12]
11. Unless you have a 3 to 1 advantage, don't undock. Smack talk from the station instead |
Mal'ol Soddo
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Posted - 2008.11.20 16:11:00 -
[13]
12. No smoking. |
Plim
Gallente
Oursulaert Technology Institute
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Posted - 2008.11.20 16:33:00 -
[14]
13. Know your enemy.
Make sure you adequately use recon against whatever you are going to engage and develop tactics accordingly.
This in my opinion is the most important rule, unless you are looking for a game of chance.
When this rule is applied, you should not die to blobs. |
Skira Ranos
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Posted - 2008.11.20 16:40:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Plim
13. Know your enemy.
Make sure you adequately use recon against whatever you are going to engage and develop tactics accordingly.
This in my opinion is the most important rule, unless you are looking for a game of chance.
When this rule is applied, you should not die to blobs.
Truth.
Though in my guide, this is addressed in a different section, I might add it... |
Kehmor
Caldari
Malevolent Emo Herders
Obsidian Empire
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Posted - 2008.11.20 17:16:00 -
[16]
Those rules suck:
1) why not?
2) see 1
3)I actually win the majority of the time and always assume I will.
4) Not at all true, most people are reasonably trust worthy, you only hear about the ones who aren't.
5) If you fight like that, you will never get fights.
6) If you fight like that, you will never get fights.
7) The more time you spend gathering info, the more time they have to gain info on you.
8) You learn this through experience, telling people they should know it before they start pvping is pretty ******ed.
9) The only really solid rule you listed.
The main rule of pvp: Do it as much as possible, and you will become good at it. ***** footing around and following guides and rules will get you only so far, and not very.
-
Violence isn't the answer, it is the question.
The answer is yes. |
Tuberider
Caldari
Pothouse Cartel
IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2008.11.20 17:36:00 -
[17]
only 1 rule
undocking for pvp without a big bag of herb to keep you toasted, is suicide  |
Phenomena X
Galactic PeaceMaking
Talon Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.20 17:57:00 -
[18]
I was so [----] close to reading this thread.
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Skira Ranos
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Posted - 2008.11.20 18:52:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Kehmor
Those rules suck:
1) why not?
2) see 1
3)I actually win the majority of the time and always assume I will.
4) Not at all true, most people are reasonably trust worthy, you only hear about the ones who aren't.
5) If you fight like that, you will never get fights.
6) If you fight like that, you will never get fights.
7) The more time you spend gathering info, the more time they have to gain info on you.
8) You learn this through experience, telling people they should know it before they start pvping is pretty ******ed.
9) The only really solid rule you listed.
The main rule of pvp: Do it as much as possible, and you will become good at it. ***** footing around and following guides and rules will get you only so far, and not very.
Well theres two schools of thought about PvP.
One is that you should be skilled.
The other is to simply bring the biggest guns and the most skillpoints and/or the most people.
I proscribe to the former school of thought.
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LunaticWithCandy
Caldari
Gates of Valhalla
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Posted - 2008.11.20 19:48:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Misina Arlath
Good and true rules, but EVE wouldn't be as much fun if everyone followed them.
There'd be alot less carebear tears if they all realized it was a game and they didn't fly what they couldn't afford to lose.
And there'd be alot less dead players if everyone assumed the worst 24/7 and warped to safe spots, out of the systems or cloaked everytime something showed up on local.
Then again, as long as there are humans, there will be idiots, so all is not lost.
EVE is a lot less of a thrill if you don't put something on the line. The more you put on the line the more of a thrill it is, it's just like gambling, but unlike real life going for broke in EVE isn't really so bad.
---------------------
Master of Pants. |
Juan Ignacio
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Posted - 2008.11.20 20:35:00 -
[21]
pvp is overrated tbh .. just go and kill the dude .. no need rules just need a brain and some scouts lol
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Zero Speed
Ergo Abstergo
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Posted - 2008.11.20 20:47:00 -
[22]
1. If someone is unwilling to fight when odds are hugely not in their favour, they are chicken bear n00blars;
2. If you overkill someone, that's a GF;
3. If you get overkilled, that's lame and all of them who did that are n00b blobbers;
4. If you lose a ship, that was either to desync, lag or sploids
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Rajere
No Trademark
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Posted - 2008.11.20 21:06:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Kehmor
Those rules suck:
1) why not?
2) see 1
3)I actually win the majority of the time and always assume I will.
4) Not at all true, most people are reasonably trust worthy, you only hear about the ones who aren't.
5) If you fight like that, you will never get fights.
6) If you fight like that, you will never get fights.
7) The more time you spend gathering info, the more time they have to gain info on you.
8) You learn this through experience, telling people they should know it before they start pvping is pretty ******ed.
9) The only really solid rule you listed.
The main rule of pvp: Do it as much as possible, and you will become good at it. ***** footing around and following guides and rules will get you only so far, and not very.
Confirmed. If the OP is writing up some kind of guideline using those rules, it should be called the "carebears guide to avoiding pvp at all costs"
Here's the first couple of real rules for pvp:
1. Every single time you lose a ship, it is your fault. Absolutely no excuses.
2. EVERY SINGLE TIME YOU LOSE A SHIP, IT IS YOUR FAULT. ABSOLUTELY NO EXCUSES. Until you realize this you cannot better yourself as a pvper.
3. Never undock any ship you cannot afford to replace or make do without.
4. You will learn more from losing than you could ever learn from winning; however win or lose, you cannot learn from anything which does not challenge you.
5. Blobbing is not pvp, you will not learn the first thing about pvp by blobbing, regardless if you are steamrolling your opponents or reeling while your massive numbers advantage gets decimated every fight. Even if your statistics improve, it is not because you are learning or bettering your skills in pvp. You are merely memorizing the steps needed to fail (or to not fail as the case may be) via repetition.
--------------------------
NOTR
How to Fail at Eve
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Plim
Gallente
Oursulaert Technology Institute
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Posted - 2008.11.20 21:21:00 -
[24]
I accept all of what the OP has said, providing they are accepted as guides and not iron rules.
They don't in anyway preclude your from engaging in fights, they just provide things for you to consider before you do, so you can develop appropriate tactics. |
Ten Tron
Project Nemesis
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Posted - 2008.11.20 23:13:00 -
[25]
His name is Robert Paulson.
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dagley
Basement Innovations
Heretic Nation
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Posted - 2008.11.20 23:19:00 -
[26]
Edited by: dagley on 20/11/2008 23:19:33
Originally by: Goyda
Originally by: Skira Ranos
Originally by: RedSplat
10) PAY ATTENTION to local !
This rule should be #1 and is often the least followed rule
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Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2008.11.20 23:21:00 -
[27]
Expected a lame post and actually surprised, this post is awesome. Too many people going emo. Video game, it should be fun yeehaw.
These rules should be dictated to every new pod pilot tbh, so they will be ready for the carnage that awaits them. |
Cat Molina
Minmatar
Psychotic Inc.
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Posted - 2008.11.20 23:36:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Cat Molina on 20/11/2008 23:41:14
Originally by: Rajere
Originally by: Kehmor
Those rules suck:
1) why not?
2) see 1
3)I actually win the majority of the time and always assume I will.
4) Not at all true, most people are reasonably trust worthy, you only hear about the ones who aren't.
5) If you fight like that, you will never get fights.
6) If you fight like that, you will never get fights.
7) The more time you spend gathering info, the more time they have to gain info on you.
8) You learn this through experience, telling people they should know it before they start pvping is pretty ******ed.
9) The only really solid rule you listed.
The main rule of pvp: Do it as much as possible, and you will become good at it. ***** footing around and following guides and rules will get you only so far, and not very.
Confirmed. If the OP is writing up some kind of guideline using those rules, it should be called the "carebears guide to avoiding pvp at all costs"
Here's the first couple of real rules for pvp:
1. Every single time you lose a ship, it is your fault. Absolutely no excuses.
2. EVERY SINGLE TIME YOU LOSE A SHIP, IT IS YOUR FAULT. ABSOLUTELY NO EXCUSES. Until you realize this you cannot better yourself as a pvper.
3. Never undock any ship you cannot afford to replace or make do without.
4. You will learn more from losing than you could ever learn from winning; however win or lose, you cannot learn from anything which does not challenge you.
5. Blobbing is not pvp, you will not learn the first thing about pvp by blobbing, regardless if you are steamrolling your opponents or reeling while your massive numbers advantage gets decimated every fight. Even if your statistics improve, it is not because you are learning or bettering your skills in pvp. You are merely memorizing the steps needed to fail (or to not fail as the case may be) via repetition.
Good ones, full of Win. Here's some more:
Fit to win. If you expect to lose your ship, you generally do. Many battles are won or lost before the first shot is fired... attitude and belief is everything.
Choose your battles. If it looks ugly... don't bite. Move on and find something that looks better.
Watch out for traps. But don't become so paranoid over traps that you refuse to engage when the odds are in your favor. (These two points sound like they conflict each other; they really don't. The difference is understanding that a situation might be a trap, and being ready for the unexpected to happen.)
Trust your instincts. That first gut feeling you have about a target generally turns out to be the correct one.
Learn to shrug off ship losses. No one wins every fight, and sooner or later even the best pilots end up in a pod. New pilots will get killed a lot. This is how you learn how to PvP. And if you get butthurt about losing a ship, you'll be less inclined to get back out there.
Learn from your losses! Don't just say "Meh, he was older. Got my ass kicked." Figure out how he did it. Look up his stats (losses and kills with that ship) on Battleclinic. Determine his age , make a guess about his training, and create a character in EFT. Plug in his loadout. See the battle from his eyes.
EDIt: Never walk away from a loss without understanding what when wrong.
And never underestimate the power of a friendly eve-mail. You'd be surprised how many people, after kicking my ass, were willing to share advice and tactics on the fight.
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Skira Ranos
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Posted - 2008.11.20 23:46:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Skira Ranos on 20/11/2008 23:46:54
Originally by: Rajere
Originally by: Kehmor
Those rules suck:
1) why not?
2) see 1
3)I actually win the majority of the time and always assume I will.
4) Not at all true, most people are reasonably trust worthy, you only hear about the ones who aren't.
5) If you fight like that, you will never get fights.
6) If you fight like that, you will never get fights.
7) The more time you spend gathering info, the more time they have to gain info on you.
8) You learn this through experience, telling people they should know it before they start pvping is pretty ******ed.
9) The only really solid rule you listed.
The main rule of pvp: Do it as much as possible, and you will become good at it. ***** footing around and following guides and rules will get you only so far, and not very.
Confirmed. If the OP is writing up some kind of guideline using those rules, it should be called the "carebears guide to avoiding pvp at all costs"
Here's the first couple of real rules for pvp:
1. Every single time you lose a ship, it is your fault. Absolutely no excuses.
2. EVERY SINGLE TIME YOU LOSE A SHIP, IT IS YOUR FAULT. ABSOLUTELY NO EXCUSES. Until you realize this you cannot better yourself as a pvper.
3. Never undock any ship you cannot afford to replace or make do without.
4. You will learn more from losing than you could ever learn from winning; however win or lose, you cannot learn from anything which does not challenge you.
5. Blobbing is not pvp, you will not learn the first thing about pvp by blobbing, regardless if you are steamrolling your opponents or reeling while your massive numbers advantage gets decimated every fight. Even if your statistics improve, it is not because you are learning or bettering your skills in pvp. You are merely memorizing the steps needed to fail (or to not fail as the case may be) via repetition.
I agree completely with 1-4. I don't see at all how they are incompatible with that I've written. Perhaps I should rewrite one and two so that its more clear that I meant exactly what you wrote: "3. Never undock any ship you cannot afford to replace or make do without." I would like to point out that my list is indeed more guidelines than rules; they are good things to keep in mind, not reasons to be paralyzed with fear and never undock. I also don't see how these rules are at all "carebears guide to avoiding pvp at all costs". They were written by me, a pirate who has been yarring (extremely successfully) since 2005 (hint: this isn't my first character), with the intent of educated the less experienced as to how not to end up owned. Your rules 1 and 2 are very, very true. Likely, it is your fault for not being cautious and thoughtful as outlined above. |
Skira Ranos
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Posted - 2008.11.20 23:47:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Vaal Erit
Expected a lame post and actually surprised, this post is awesome. Too many people going emo. Video game, it should be fun yeehaw.
These rules should be dictated to every new pod pilot tbh, so they will be ready for the carnage that awaits them.
Thanks. =) |
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