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The hard way of life [in eve]

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Letelio Denmun	Posted - 2008.11.20 23:15:00 - [1] Dear readers, For quite some time now ive been a low sec pvper, or a pirate in some of your opinions. Although pvp against "innocent" targets in low sec is for some reason considerd low by many its the only thing I, and my corp enjoy doing. 0.0 dont and has not appealed to me, high sec got very boring very quickly and high sec pvp despite having its high points tended to be a whole lot of waiting for nothing to happen. But after so long of watching targets in low sec get away when they should have died i thought, what the hell, and decided to write this post, probaly not the first post you have read on the subject and I doubt it shall be the last either. One example that jumps to mind is earlier today a drake jumped in to me and two corp members. That is a battlecruiser sized ship that jumped in to three highly skilled, well fit battleships and it was quickly warp disrupted and webbed. Despite the fact that it was tackled in every way ccp has made it possible to tackle, the drake was still able to mwd back to the gate and jump out. The day that a battlecruiser can escape 3 battleships despite being webbed is the day I begin to think how can it be said eve is a hostile environment game. So much time wasted waiting for targets that have so many options of escaping, there is warp core stabs, after all when your in a small pvp group like I am then a heavy dictor isnt always avaible, hours of our time camping mite be wasted just because the guy that jumped in fit a wcs in his spare low slot. In my opinion the nerf to speed was no where near as bad as the nerf to webs, when some one jumps through a gate they are just 12-18km away from it. Fitting a mwd on to a battlecruiser or battleship would mean you could be back to the gate in as little as 12 secounds, even if you were webbed as soon as you uncloaked which isnt possible, now the new webs would just increase that time to 30 secounds. Ever tried killing a battleship in 30 secounds solo or with a small gang?? Sorry im kind of rambaling now, but seeing as my security status prevents me from earning isk via mission running or minning and the limitations of my current situation mean 0.0 is not a viable option then the only way me and my corp can make isk is though the killing off targets. Other methods of escaping that i think are silly include -Logging of, cloaking and warping, mwd speed running away from or back to the gate. It just ruins the game for people in a situation where killing people in low sec is all we can do and the only way we can earn isk. Thanks for reading, dont be to harsh in your responsies
SUAO Hazardous Flame	Posted - 2008.11.20 23:16:00 - [2] Edited by: SUAO on 20/11/2008 23:17:54 1st? edit 1. Fit a Scram 2. No MWD 3. ??? 4. Profit? Also, is there a point to this? Or did you just read my sig?
Apoctasy The Python Cartel	Posted - 2008.11.20 23:17:00 - [3] in before tl:dr Get an alt to do your hauling/missioning/isk making
Micheal Dietrich Caldari Terradyne Networks	Posted - 2008.11.20 23:20:00 - [4] Maybe I'm crazy but I thought with the last patch Scrambles disengaged MWD.
Letelio Denmun	Posted - 2008.11.20 23:20:00 - [5] Some people dont enjoy the high sec methods of earning isk, if these same people dont enjoy 0.0 either then low sec is one of the only other choices for them. As tempting as the easy sercure income of high sec life is, it is certainly no fun but what im trying to say seeing 1/2 the targets we catch some how get away just simply shouldnt happen.
Letelio Denmun	Posted - 2008.11.20 23:24:00 - [6] Mic your right there, but using a arazu/lach under sentry gun fire is nearly impossible especialy in the smaller gangs I fly with. As for using normal scrams if your sitting next to the gate by the time they come with in 9km of you its to late they are going to get back to it, mwd online or not.
Banana Torres Look Ma I did a Test	Posted - 2008.11.20 23:43:00 - [7] Originally by: Letelio Denmun but seeing as my security status prevents me from earning isk via mission running What!? They have removed missions from low sec? When did that happen?
Rivur'Tam Fatality.	Posted - 2008.11.20 23:49:00 - [8] 3 of you in gang = 2 with disrupters 1 with scram Also mwd+bump With the mass changes in qr, if your bs doing 759ms hits another bs it knocks it a HUGE distance Tonight my small gang stopped a thorax from getting back to the gate this way. Don't wine adapt and as for these new huge gates just don't camp them.
Karille Gallente Lordless	Posted - 2008.11.20 23:51:00 - [9] Yes, I do believe the bump is the answer. Sad it has to come to that, but it's fairly effective.
sableye principle of motion Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.11.20 23:55:00 - [10] and how many of your targets do you think should be allowed to get away? running is a good survival response in lots of situations in nature cause it works

gallentescout Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2008.11.21 00:00:00 - [11] Originally by: Letelio Denmun Mic your right there, but using a arazu/lach under sentry gun fire is nearly impossible especialy in the smaller gangs I fly with. As for using normal scrams if your sitting next to the gate by the time they come with in 9km of you its to late they are going to get back to it, mwd online or not. Scrambler is still the way to go now. A webbed drake with no MWD isn't going to cover the distance that fast...especially if you bump into him. As for the all the other stuff, I kind of understand but really you choose your method of play. Nobody is forcing you to camp gates and lower your sec status...and quite frankly it sucks as a general "PvP" mechanic. But then I can't feel too harsh towards the gankers because: a) it's human nature to want things easy. b) EVE actually doesn't offer that many ways of finding quality PvP. (and by 'PvP' I mean actual combat between players that tests the skill and/or intelligence of the opponent)
Haradgrim Tyrell Corp INTERDICTION	Posted - 2008.11.21 00:01:00 - [12] Edited by: Haradgrim on 21/11/2008 00:04:55 The new huge gates suck, especially those that go into 0.0 Some of the best pvp I've seen has been in systems like P3, Doril, 3f-. etc, etc, and as a result of the changes it has become very difficult to camp them without a huge gang because everything just gets away (because it appears 40km away from you and you need 4+ HIDs to fully cover the gates) -- Originally by: CCP Oveur Just donæt forget the reach-around.
Wendat Huron Stellar Solutions	Posted - 2008.11.21 01:44:00 - [13] Bring a HIC you hick! Delenda est achura.
Ticondrius Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.21 04:03:00 - [14] Originally by: Micheal Dietrich Maybe I'm crazy but I thought with the last patch Scrambles disengaged MWD. Only warp DISRUPTORS (you know, the 20km ones?). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- PROPOSAL: Good Bug Reporting Incentives MMORPG: Many Men Online Role Playing Girls
Alex Raptos Caldari The Firestorm Millennium	Posted - 2008.11.21 05:58:00 - [15] Edited by: Alex Raptos on 21/11/2008 05:58:15 Originally by: Ticondrius Originally by: Micheal Dietrich Maybe I'm crazy but I thought with the last patch Scrambles disengaged MWD. Only warp DISRUPTORS (you know, the 20km ones?). Hahaha, so wrong you are my friend. Its the 7.5km ones that Disrupt.
Malcanis Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.11.21 08:46:00 - [16] Originally by: Letelio Denmun Despite the fact that it was tackled in every way ccp has made it possible to tackle, the drake was still able to mwd Quoted the wrong in your post.
Daevonar Minmatar Starfish Operating Syndicate	Posted - 2008.11.21 09:11:00 - [17] Originally by: Letelio Denmun Some people dont enjoy the high sec methods of earning isk, if these same people dont enjoy 0.0 either then low sec is one of the only other choices for them. As tempting as the easy sercure income of high sec life is, it is certainly no fun but what im trying to say seeing 1/2 the targets we catch some how get away just simply shouldnt happen. I'm sorry but what you ar esaying is you dont feel that targets should get away? Wouldn't that be completely unfair on everyone else playing the game. I'm sorry but camping low sec gates should not be a guaranteed kill on everything that comes through. If only half are getting away I'd say your doing pretty well out of it.
Furb Killer Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.11.21 09:24:00 - [18] Summarized: Everyone who jumps in the OPs gatecamp should decloak, and then just stay waiting till he is destroyed. Preferably also dont warp your pod out, otherwise it is so hard to pod kill you.
Letelio Denmun	Posted - 2008.11.21 09:33:00 - [19] wendat if you had taken the time to read the post you would have seen the part about the gangs i fly in being to small to have a dic with us all the time. In reply to the warp scraming ideas you have mentioned i would like to say the following. When a mwd is offlined by a warp scram the targets ship doesnt just stop. It will take a drake a long time to go from 1200 ms to 100 and seeing as it will be at the most 9km from the gate by the time it gets scrammed then it still stands a great chance of making it back.
Ballistic CEO Looking For Fun Corp	Posted - 2008.11.21 09:35:00 - [20] The continued slow lingering death of low sec. In all honesty while it is sad on many levels its not really a surprise to see things getting harder for pirates is it? Its not like CCP have spent the last few years making things better and better for low sec people and suddenly decided to make your life hard. My advice, get that sec up and decide where abouts in hi-sec you want to operate.

Pesky LaRue Minmatar	Posted - 2008.11.21 09:42:00 - [21] so, gatecamping in low-sec (not PVP by ANY stretch of the imagination) isn't as easy as you think it should be? the barrel's too big for the fish? sniff, sniff. i'm really welling for you up over here.
Letelio Denmun	Posted - 2008.11.21 09:46:00 - [22] was waiting for some one to insult pirates i guess you have a bad experience in low sec recently. Not that this is the point of this post but gate camping is very hard and very risky, these days its not even worth the risk unless you sitting in a 20 man gang because otherwise there is so many ways people can evade you. Just because we dont want to sit in the massive gangs does that mean we are less entitled to killing targets.
Pesky LaRue Minmatar	Posted - 2008.11.21 09:53:00 - [23] Originally by: Letelio Denmun was waiting for some one to insult pirates i guess you have a bad experience in low sec recently. Not that this is the point of this post but gate camping is very hard and very risky, these days its not even worth the risk unless you sitting in a 20 man gang because otherwise there is so many ways people can evade you. Just because we dont want to sit in the massive gangs does that mean we are less entitled to killing targets. nope, haven't had a "bad experience" in low-sec for a long time, it's just beyond me how you (or anyone else) considers it PvP. you want us to feel bad because it's become harder for you to jump people and now, sniff sniff, there's not enough profit in it for you anymore? you might be a pirate, but being a gatecamper makes you a PvPer about as much as handing out cash from behind a piece of glass makes you a banker. you wanna kill targets in low-sec, that's just dandy with me - there are enough miners and mission-runners out there for you to nab - but my sympathy for you not being able to jump people at gates is extremely limited. ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++
Letelio Denmun	Posted - 2008.11.21 09:59:00 - [24] Player verses Player comes in many shapes and forms. It is not just new players in haulers and civilian fit cruisers that we have to fight, if you think that is the case then i think you mite need to learn some more before commenting. But you seem to have the view of many thinking for some reason gate camping is not real pvp, no idea where this idea was born I guess it just shows how little you actually know.
Malcanis Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.11.21 10:03:00 - [25] Originally by: Letelio Denmun Player verses Player comes in many shapes and forms. It is not just new players in haulers and civilian fit cruisers that we have to fight, if you think that is the case then i think you mite need to learn some more before commenting. But you seem to have the view of many thinking for some reason gate camping is not real pvp, no idea where this idea was born I guess it just shows how little you actually know. Well look at it this way: when there is a chance of being able to escape a camp, more people will take that chance.
Letelio Denmun	Posted - 2008.11.21 10:07:00 - [26] hehe good point i guess, but still its a bit over done where if people fit a certain mod or use a certain tactic they are almost certainly going to escape, shouldn't the game involve risks and chances??
Hooch Flux Caldari	Posted - 2008.11.21 10:08:00 - [27] Originally by: Letelio Denmun Just because we dont want to sit in the massive gangs does that mean we are less entitled to killing targets. In this case it would appear it does!
Mal'ol Soddo	Posted - 2008.11.21 10:22:00 - [28] Originally by: Letelio Denmun hehe good point i guess, but still its a bit over done where if people fit a certain mod or use a certain tactic they are almost certainly going to escape, shouldn't the game involve risks and chances?? Well, the risk of being in low sec is that you can't use an inty to tackle without instant pop. That gives people in low sec the chance to escape! Seems to be working this whole risk/chance thing!
Letelio Denmun	Posted - 2008.11.21 10:40:00 - [29] What i meant is if a guy with a wcs jumps in to a one of us with a point he gets away for definite. If a speed fit, cruiser sized battle cruiser even battleship sized ship jumps in he is more than likely going to make it back to the gate, in fact he almost definitely will. If some one jumps in and logs off in 1 minute they will defiantly get away. If some one jumps in with the correct fit to cloak, alling, warp then he will defiantly get away. Theres no risk or chances for them. Maybe if we were in a 20 man gate camp with rapiers and heavy dictors with remote sensor boosting and 15'000 dps ready to be fired at a target then we would get most those kills. But we are not and the new things ccp do to the server make it harder yet for us to get the few kills that fly our way.
OK USA	Posted - 2008.11.21 10:40:00 - [30] Originally by: Micheal Dietrich Maybe I'm crazy but I thought with the last patch Scrambles disengaged MWD. Maybe I'm crazy but I thought that it's kind of hard to tackle people with a scram in a battleship when they jump through a gate.



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