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Rustok Cruor Frater Coalition Of Carebear Killers	Posted - 2008.11.25 20:45:00 - [1] yes yes before you go all like "buts its MMO" some of us actually like solo pvp i have played this game since 2003 and tried it all, and it seems CCP is gona allow solo pvp to die. i personally solo mostly and basicly only in lowsec vs pirates. but pvp now seems to me that pvp is develpoing into who has more falcons alts. mean i was allright with fighting couple bs and the falcon got a jam in once in a while, maybe on a crucial time, but lately all my deaths have been me sitting in a ship watching 3-7 falcons permajamming me 200km away. now this seems overpowered. u can just frak off and cloak when ever a threat comes close. now her is my proposal introduce dimishing returns on jamming, so u¦ll get jammed for 20 secons the first time then after each succesful jam the time u cant lock will slowly reach zero , but a jam will always break your lock, OR give sentrys more range so the falcon pilots actually have to watch out for something now when nanos are dead Rus
Daplat Mode Caldari Mean Corp	Posted - 2008.11.25 22:21:00 - [2] Sounds like you need to pick your fights a bit more carefully tbh. Of course your gonna lose if your trying to "solo" a couple of bs's and 3/7 falcons on a gate wtf is unbalanced about that other than the fight itself? Nobody I fly with is complaining about solo pvp or even small gang pvp at the moment. I think people just need to suck it up and fly.
Volky	Posted - 2008.11.25 22:30:00 - [3] Im so HAPPY to see this cos i pvp alone yes baby i do :) Yeah you kind need to look out cos more and more cowards get togheder to blow up single ship they think they are good hell no any tard can press F1 in 5 ppl gang. kepp it up dude solo is so much more rewarding at least when you kill something you know is you that did it not 4 of you're team mates. But is true that solo is harder and you need alot patiance and calm not to get you're self steemed by smack talk in local :) Gl to you and may we all be famous cos gancers don't got nothing to show for tbh at least i don't respect them.
Soporo Caldari	Posted - 2008.11.25 22:46:00 - [4] Duo (minimum) is the new solo.
Volky	Posted - 2008.11.25 22:54:00 - [5] If i can find 2vs1 again i take it all day friking now is more like 10 vs 1 :(
Ruri Dant Onorata Societa	Posted - 2008.11.25 23:50:00 - [6] I agree with OP, Dampeners, are either range or resolution. Turret destabilizers slow tracking but dont turn the guns off copletely so gives a chance vs semi stationary targets Energy Neuts give a chance to most ppl to fight back but not to who need cap to fire. Jammers break lock, preventing ALL extra ship activity, EVEN FRIENDLY, like close remote reps and all them friendly things, chance based may be, but a Falcon full antiracial will snipejam and close down 90% of enemies, easy it could do 2 with luck 3. Yeah yeah but ppl could fit ECCM, but if i have to plan to get jammed, and tank, and deal damage, and this and that it's impossible, if u in a small gang difersification is even more difficult, and if u are in solo, it's impossible! R
Joss Sparq Caldari ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.26 12:12:00 - [7] Originally by: Ruri Dant Yeah yeah but ppl could fit ECCM, but if i have to plan to get jammed, and tank, and deal damage, and this and that it's impossible, if u in a small gang difersification is even more difficult, and if u are in solo, it's impossible! R Yes, clearly the Falcon is a grave threat in solo PvP, what with having all those damage bonuses and high-slots for weapons.
Dasalt Istgut	Posted - 2008.11.26 12:31:00 - [8] Originally by: Rustok yes yes before you go all like "buts its MMO" some of us actually like solo pvp i have played this game since 2003 and tried it all, and it seems CCP is gona allow solo pvp to die. i personally solo mostly and basicly only in lowsec vs pirates. but pvp now seems to me that pvp is develpoing into who has more falcons alts. mean i was allright with fighting couple bs and the falcon got a jam in once in a while, maybe on a crucial time, but lately all my deaths have been me sitting in a ship watching 3-7 falcons permajamming me 200km away. now this seems overpowered. u can just frak off and cloak when ever a threat comes close. now her is my proposal introduce dimishing returns on jamming, so u¦ll get jammed for 20 secons the first time then after each succesful jam the time u cant lock will slowly reach zero , but a jam will always break your lock, OR give sentrys more range so the falcon pilots actually have to watch out for something now when nanos are dead Rus No you can't solo a group of enemy ships who aren't dumb. Replace falcon with griffin, rapier or brutix and the end result is still the same (you - dead).
Dasalt Istgut	Posted - 2008.11.26 12:33:00 - [9] Originally by: Ruri Dant I agree with OP, Dampeners, are either range or resolution. Turret destabilizers slow tracking but dont turn the guns off copletely so gives a chance vs semi stationary targets Energy Neuts give a chance to most ppl to fight back but not to who need cap to fire. Jammers break lock, preventing ALL extra ship activity, EVEN FRIENDLY, like close remote reps and all them friendly things, chance based may be, but a Falcon full antiracial will snipejam and close down 90% of enemies, easy it could do 2 with luck 3. Yeah yeah but ppl could fit ECCM, but if i have to plan to get jammed, and tank, and deal damage, and this and that it's impossible, if u in a small gang difersification is even more difficult, and if u are in solo, it's impossible! R If there was a solo ship that could do everything, we'd all fly it. Except those of us that were smart would do it in gangs. You can't have both "balance" and "solo ships that can counter everyone" at the same time.
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2008.11.26 12:40:00 - [10] The low-sec pirates using Falcons is the real problem, Falcons in Fleet warfare is not so bad as you generally have ships to deal with them. A change I support more than others is to tweak the range of ECM. The 200km+ is a leftover from a time when ships to counter jamming were going 6-10k/s. Swap the optimal and fall-off stats for ECM modules to bring the ECM ships in line with the other eWar platforms. It is practically impossible to 'choose' a good fight as the jammers are unaffiliated neutrals, often still in NPC corps so checking info gives no clue. For low-sec until ECM is tweaked; Increase gate sentries range to max. targeting, 250km .. if a neutral Falcon chooses to engage he can have the privilege of taking his rightful place in the aggression cue for the guns. I don't think people still use snipers to grief so it shouldn't be an issue for most pirates.
Dasalt Istgut	Posted - 2008.11.26 12:52:00 - [11] Originally by: Hirana Yoshida The low-sec pirates using Falcons is the real problem, Falcons in Fleet warfare is not so bad as you generally have ships to deal with them. A change I support more than others is to tweak the range of ECM. The 200km+ is a leftover from a time when ships to counter jamming were going 6-10k/s. Swap the optimal and fall-off stats for ECM modules to bring the ECM ships in line with the other eWar platforms. It is practically impossible to 'choose' a good fight as the jammers are unaffiliated neutrals, often still in NPC corps so checking info gives no clue. For low-sec until ECM is tweaked; Increase gate sentries range to max. targeting, 250km .. if a neutral Falcon chooses to engage he can have the privilege of taking his rightful place in the aggression cue for the guns. I don't think people still use snipers to grief so it shouldn't be an issue for most pirates. Fly in a gang and have one person fly an ECCM fitted scorpion. Takes all of two weeks to train for. Problem solved. People just need to get it into their head that engaging multiple hostiles solo = death.
The Tzar Malicious Intentions	Posted - 2008.11.26 13:29:00 - [12] Edited by: The Tzar on 26/11/2008 13:29:34 Originally by: Rustok OR give sentrys more range so the falcon pilots actually have to watch out for something now when nanos are dead Rus Give falcon pilots 'something to watch out for'??!! Give them drones, stats so that it is not necessary to ENTIRELY fit the ship for ECM..., you know like the other recons and more mids such that they can buffer without gimping their one defence to survive maybe two volleys from your new sentries. edit: spelling __________________________________________ 'Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear intelligent until they speak' __________________________________________
Rustok Cruor Frater Coalition Of Carebear Killers	Posted - 2008.11.26 17:00:00 - [13] since i dont know how to quote. to dasalt, in the majority of the fights if they had replaced the falcon with something else they most likely would have lost 1-2 more ships but the end result is my death ofc. But having one or more ships sitting cloaked 200km+ from sentry guns not having to sacrifice any medslots for a tank while all other ships that are gona camp lowsec have to sacrifice slots for tanking, no other ship class can do that and its unballanced imo. falcon serves its purpose in 0.0 fleet fights where this extreem range is required sometimes. and to that ECCM my ship of choice has only 3 medslots not giving much room for eccm. but then again i have been in my tempest with dual ECCM overloaded and still getting jammed by light ecm drones maybe bad luck. giving sentrys more range would most likely sort this out.
H Lecter Gallente The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2008.11.26 17:56:00 - [14] Originally by: Rustok giving sentrys more range would most likely sort this out. So non-flashy ppl could jam flashies at losec gates while the flashies could not return the favour..? Looking at your corp name I'm surprised to hear such an idea from you. My opinion is purely personal and not related to my alliance
Lord Morgo LEGI0N	Posted - 2008.11.26 18:26:00 - [15] As somebody else who enjoys solo pvp when able, I have to agree with a lot of what others have put above. There should be no single "solo-pvp" vessel, or we'd all fly it. You can't blame a pilot for either 1. Having friends or 2. flying a falcon. Something else that was ranged was reducing the effective range of an ecm boat, which again I think is a good idea. If it misses a cycle, it should be within range for the now un-jammed ship to return fire. Now I don't mean blaster range, but maybe 50-60k instead of the seemingly standard 100k. my two cents.
Lilith Velkor Minmatar DEATH'S LEGION	Posted - 2008.11.26 20:14:00 - [16] tbh, just be glad you're only fighting pirates, at least they have to rig their falcons for range and cant use ecm strength
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Home 0f Bored Occultists	Posted - 2008.11.26 22:19:00 - [17] Originally by: Lilith Velkor tbh, just be glad you're only fighting pirates, at least they have to rig their falcons for range and cant use ecm strength So what? Lows are 3x ecm str mods. You don't need the str rigs, only range. ----------------------------------------- [Video] The Cruise
atiJ sdrawkcaB	Posted - 2008.11.26 22:41:00 - [18] I've had zero 1v1 fights in the last 3 weeks. I don't consider ganking a shuttle or a pod a fight. Solo PVP is dead because you can't solo a gang and people have stopped trying. People run from a fight if they're alone - and it's the smart thing to do. Can't blame 'em. Would be nice if there was a deuling mechanism where you could warp off to a random place and fight someone without ANY interference, but that still wouldn't fix the basic problem.
SheriffFruitfly Caldari	Posted - 2008.11.27 00:21:00 - [19] I've only ever seen people talk about this mythical thing "solo pvp". __________________________________________________________
Lilith Velkor Minmatar DEATH'S LEGION	Posted - 2008.11.27 02:58:00 - [20] Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 27/11/2008 03:00:10 Originally by: Lyria Skydancer So what? Lows are 3x ecm str mods. You don't need the str rigs, only range. You'd be surprised how many people fit a 1600mm plate on their falcons. An estimate, but I'd say 2/3 of the falcons that end on battleclinic use the augmentor rigs
Ka Jolo The Tuskers	Posted - 2008.11.27 04:13:00 - [21] As someone who frequently gets in solo fights, and knows plenty of others who do the same, I'm trying to figure out what's behind the repeated "solo PvP is dead" claims. Does believing that make you feel better about yourself for ganging up? Are you stuck on one or two kinds of PvP where solo fights are indeed a relic of the past? One thing's for sure: when lots of pilots are doing PvP solo, it seems silly to claim "solo PvP is dead."
King Rothgar	Posted - 2008.11.27 09:04:00 - [22] Solo PvP is not dead, go to a trade/mission hub, war dec every corp in sight, have fun. You will get the occasional group who will actually pin you in the station and smack you for not sticking around for a 16 vs 1 fight, but most of the time you can pluck off single players. Some are good, some are not and regardless of skill some will willingly come and fight you 1 vs 1 while others obvlivious to their surroundings get ganked. Solo in low sec is a bad idea unless you are in a cloaked ship. So get a cloaked ship and be patient. Many kills can be had in a recon if you pick your targets carefully. It is true ECM makes life difficult, but deal with it. It can be overcome. I typically fit an ECCM on my pvp ships, it doesn't remove solo tackle, tank or gank. But it does make me damn near jam proof in a BS to all but the most dedicated jammers. Besides, drones deal with blackbirds and their t2 friends just fine. And those ships do laughable dps, so alone they are rather harmless.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Home 0f Bored Occultists	Posted - 2008.11.27 10:15:00 - [23] Originally by: Lilith Velkor Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 27/11/2008 03:00:10 Originally by: Lyria Skydancer So what? Lows are 3x ecm str mods. You don't need the str rigs, only range. You'd be surprised how many people fit a 1600mm plate on their falcons. An estimate, but I'd say 2/3 of the falcons that end on battleclinic use the augmentor rigs Low sec falcons do not fit plates. Low sec falcons are pretty much invincible if you dont make a mistake. The falcons on battleclinic death mails are therefor either 0.0 fleet falcons or fail low sec falcons.
Telvar Hooligans Of War	Posted - 2008.11.27 11:01:00 - [24] Originally by: H Lecter Originally by: Rustok giving sentrys more range would most likely sort this out. So non-flashy ppl could jam flashies at losec gates while the flashies could not return the favour..? Looking at your corp name I'm surprised to hear such an idea from you. God forbid that ships need to fit a tank while engaging at a gate. Wheres the challenge or enjoyment of always having a win/win situation.
Dihania Gallente SniggWaffe	Posted - 2008.11.27 12:23:00 - [25] Edited by: Dihania on 27/11/2008 12:38:04 1. Solo PVP has been in a bad state for much longer than when QR came out. 2. Even so it was and is still possible. 3. With the changes to speed, missiles and rest of the stuff I believe Solo PVP is much more doable now than before QR. AFs are more reliable and small ships in general. Fast cruisers and HACs are still fast compared to the other ships. Changes to Web and Scrambler give a new dimension to combat. Using Web with the Scrambler makes many trying to re-approach the gate very sad. You never know if the other ship has a Disruptor or a Scrambler. Etc. Soloing is not dieing. Edit: Falcons have been powerful for a long time now but any interceptor going that way makes them run. All you need is a fast ship and the Falcon warps out. Engaging multiple targets while you are alone, sorry, but it is only natural for the odds to be against you. If you are alone and fight multiple targets, one o them being a Falcon, you lost from the start. It does not matter if there are other Falcons there. And it is not only the Falcon, it is also the Griffin or any ECMing ship, but then again it is also any neutralizing ship. Even if you are buffer tanked and your weapons use no cap, for you to move at any speed higher than normal or use a Web or a Disruptor or any other module that requires cap will be impossible. The outcome si the same, you die. The very same happens when you go against multiple targets from which one (or more) is a logistics. The odds are very much against you. What do you do, you go for the damage dealer, the logistic or the support ? If you for the logistic, chances are they put on more damage into you by the time you killed the logistic and this is if the logistic is unable to get out and come back into the fight. If you go for anything else other than the logistic you are obviously dead. See where the problem lies here ? Those who where going for fast ships in gangs now go for ships that can supplement in some way their previous survival rate. Also a gang is a gang, was a gang, will be a gang. One versus many was, is and will be a pita. Nothing has changed to kill solo, solo is more viable now, because people have not yet found the FOTM and it just may be that the FOTM is in fact FOTMS. [hrhr] Sniggwaffe is recruiting. Visit channel "join sniggwaffe" in game.
Baudolino Gallente Royal Crimson Lancers	Posted - 2008.11.27 12:24:00 - [26] as of today ECM is out of touch with the game in general. In the days of hi-octane, high speed maneuvers you could be on top of a falcon in 10 sec or even less. Quite often the falcon wouldn`t even register someone was approaching until it was too late.. heavy interdictors seemed to me to be the perfect anti falcon ship as they could nano on top of the falcon and drop a bubble- giving people the chance to come in and gank him. With todays crap speed and falcons still jamming from 150-200km it`s just not possible to get on top of them. Scripts seem to be a good solution.. on the other hand.. CCP has, in my opinion severaly damaged the game with recent changes to combat and speed- not only for the reasons of further debilitating solo and small gang PvP, or making the falcon more powerfull or several other reasons which i`ll not get into at this point- but they`re also making the game very focused on short range combat.. medium and long range has always been weak, but they`re further removing it as engagement opportunities. CCP better sit down and have a major rethink soon- and please.... do it with players who actually know the game and understand how the different aspects of it mesh..
Dihania Gallente SniggWaffe	Posted - 2008.11.27 12:47:00 - [27] Have you ever considered: * replacing the HIC with an Interceptor ? * using your own ECM ship(s) ? * remote sensor dampners, useless you say? ha :) * how about a cloacker ? You can counter a Falcon easy and since everybody knows today that when engaging there will be one, it is simple to just be prepared all the time. [hrhr] Sniggwaffe is recruiting. Visit channel "join sniggwaffe" in game.
Zankii	Posted - 2008.11.27 13:07:00 - [28] jammed by falcon hmm I expect too be perma-jammed solo by falcon. but i still havent figured out why gallente ( drone spec race) recons have same drone bay as minmator and amarr recons have larger drone bay and a drone dmg bonus seems like maybe should be otherway around.
Arazel Chainfire Dissolution Of Eternity Ethikos Trade Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.27 18:11:00 - [29] Let me make this quite clear to everyone Solo PvP is NOT 1v1 Solo PvP is 1v several The biggest problem is getting that several people to actually attack when they don't have overwhelming numbers. I will happily take 1v5 odds as long as there isn't a falcon or other ecm ship on the other side - yes, i'll probably get destroyed, but i'll take 1 or 2 of them with me, and if I'm lucky, I might even come out of it with a few hull hp's left. That is what solo pvp is. We aren't complaining because we're outnumbered - heck, being outnumbered just adds to the fun. What we're complaining about is the inability to kill anything, heck, even engage anything without being jammed to hell and back or being so outnumbered that we can't even kill a frigging frigate before they take us out. To people who say that a falcon won't permajam you - sure he won't, if he has more targets than just you. But that kinda means that you aren't solo - any falcon, even using the wrong kind of racial jammers, can permajam 1 enemy ship, even if he is fitting eccm. What we would like is something so that we have the chance to kill something before we're popped ourselves. And yes, I do think that even when outnumbered 5 to 1 I should be able to pop a cruiser (t1 or t2) in my battleship before I go down. -Arazel Originally by: Tsanse Kinske Mutual Incomprehension is one of the Four Horsemen of most internet arguments, I guess, along with Unfettered Hostility, Overwhelming Vagueness, and Lack of Evidence.
Lilith Velkor Minmatar DEATH'S LEGION Red Box.	Posted - 2008.11.28 01:04:00 - [30] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Low sec falcons do not fit plates. Low sec falcons are pretty much invincible if you dont make a mistake. The falcons on battleclinic death mails are therefor either 0.0 fleet falcons or fail low sec falcons. Pirates will always fit projector rigs ofc, but in my experience they're generally not as heavy on ewar, compared to carebear blobs engaging flashies or (faction) wartargets that tend to have half the fleet in falcons (most of those fit plates+augmentors). I'd not even say its a fail fit, people just go for the plate since it gives the bigger buffer compared with a LSE, and those that dont need the range and actually worry about their missing SDA fit the augmentors. You obviously get about the same or even a bit better performance from 3 SDA and one less jammer, plus the nice range ontop when going with a LSE and projectors, besides a 15k something buffer is crappy anyway. A real fail fit would be 3 SDAs and augmentor rigs tho, as you gain almost nothing from the rigs.
Darkeen Gallente	Posted - 2008.11.28 01:09:00 - [31] Originally by: Rustok yes yes before you go all like "buts its MMO" some of us actually like solo pvp I agree. Ppl who dont need to realise that MMORPG doesnt mean 300 v 1 at a gatecamp or Ganking.. MMORPG means 1v1, 5v5 or any other numbers, which CAN mean 300 v 1 but to have the Gank as the sole means of PvP is qute ridiculous... I'd prefer to Solo PvP before joining gang ops but I cant do that (you can trust anyone). I'll have to go with shootouts with corp mates in corp alliance run 0.0 space... I wouldnt trust anyone/anywhere else... Regards, Jason Brisbane
Caesar Khan	Posted - 2008.11.28 09:04:00 - [32] Another thing that is a problem with "1 vs 1" fights is that you can be sure that in a duel your oponent has a friend or alt wich he has fleeted and it is giving him the extra bonuses he needs to defeat you. This way his alt/friend aids him without being aggro.He doesnt even have to be in the same corp so he is basicly "invicible" in local chat. This ofcourse is more valid when it comes to 1 vs 1 duels. In my eyes this is cheating,but hey,in love and war everything goes they say. P.S I read some posts about arranging pvp tournaments some times and i would suggest taking precautions to avoid this kind of "cheating".
Ghengis Prawn	Posted - 2008.11.28 14:29:00 - [33] Originally by: Rustok yes yes before you go all like "buts its MMO" some of us actually like solo pvp i have played this game since 2003 and tried it all, and it seems CCP is gona allow solo pvp to die. ... OR give sentrys more range so the falcon pilots actually have to watch out for something now when nanos are dead Rus People always blame CCP for everything, it's not their fault. It's like an arms race. I have 2 ships, you get 3 ships. So next time I bring 4 ships, then form an alliance, and everyone brings 100 ships. The expanding population of EVE is what's killing solo PvP, and the natural human tendency to avoid a fair fight. I agree with giving sentries more range. And ECCM needs a boost, not a huge one, but a significant bump in sensor strength. Also, having an ECCM mod that adds an absolute amount rather than a percentage would be nice so that cruiser sized ships can get a good bonus. A semi-cheap rig to grant good ECM resistance would be cool too.
Terra Mikael Private Nuisance	Posted - 2008.11.29 07:42:00 - [34] Edited by: Terra Mikael on 29/11/2008 07:47:05 solo pvp isn't dead. You just need 10-15 solo pilots to fleet together in order to be viable edit: go for recons or interceptors if you want solo ability. Choose you targets wisely and know their capacities. This tutorial should be helpful if viewed metaphorically. Remember, knowing is half the battle. ________________________________ Originally by: Korovyov You WIN! And by win, I mean suck horse manure.
Selene Dukat Gallente Strix Armaments and Defence	Posted - 2008.11.29 09:26:00 - [35] Let me make sure I'm getting this right... A bunch of people are complaining that solo pvp is dead, but then in their examples, they are complaining about losing to a gang of ships? Why can't my one ship take out three??? DAMN YOU ECM!!! That doesn't seem to make much sense.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Home 0f Bored Occultists	Posted - 2008.11.29 10:20:00 - [36] Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 29/11/2008 10:21:01 Originally by: Selene Dukat Let me make sure I'm getting this right... A bunch of people are complaining that solo pvp is dead, but then in their examples, they are complaining about losing to a gang of ships? Why can't my one ship take out three??? DAMN YOU ECM!!! That doesn't seem to make much sense. Why? Because I can kill your solo BS in a ceptor + my falcon. This is what solo pvpers complain about. Falcons decloaking from nowhere and totally tilting the table even with a crappy fleet. What we want is to be able to shoot back. It is ok if we lose but we want to have a shot at shooting something while we go down. It is not about winning, it is about being able to fight. You really don't see a problem with falcons? ----------------------------------------- [Video] The Cruise
Myra2007 Perkone	Posted - 2008.11.29 22:53:00 - [37] Higher sentry range so that outlaws can't use falcons on you but you on them? That will certainly fix solo pvp. Originally by: kublai That said, the "i'm a girl who plays your computer game and i'm not that ugly" has always been a certain winner in the mmo world, and I don't see this principle faltering any time soo
Lilith Velkor Minmatar DEATH'S LEGION Red Box.	Posted - 2008.11.30 01:02:00 - [38] You'd have to nerf ecm into complete uselessness if you dont want it to decide the outcome of solo vs many engagements. It would have to be that weak that a blackbird or griffin with decent skills/fitting misses more cycles if focusing on a single target than he hits, not gonna happen. Keep in mind they can always refit with the proper racial ecm for your ship type if there is a station available, so basically even a nerfed-to-hell ecm ship will prolly still break your solo fun.
Jmanis Catharg Caldari Dusk Blade	Posted - 2008.11.30 02:55:00 - [39] ECM Sentries on lowsec gates --- Originally by: CCP Mitnal I went to the forums for special powers and all I got was a dancing padlock and a banhammer.
I SoStoned	Posted - 2008.11.30 06:12:00 - [40] LOL! Sentries doing random ECM, and interdiction by default... LOL Station sentries should also prevent capitals from engaging in combat unless first attacked. Anyway... Roving in a group and you know the other guys have ECM? Take a Raven, use FoF cruise. Take a Domi, spit out drones and tank. Take a Typhoon, do both. Take a couple speedy fast tacklers. A crow/flycatcher/cerberus with FoF lights zooming out to the falcon is a sure way to send it packing. Take some other cloakers. A pilgrim decloaking 10k off and loosing drones is a falcon's worst nightmare...
Muad' Dib Gallente Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2008.12.04 07:58:00 - [41] Edited by: Muad'' Dib on 04/12/2008 08:02:31 Originally by: Rustok yes yes before you go all like "buts its MMO" some of us actually like solo pvp i have played this game since 2003 and tried it all, and it seems CCP is gona allow solo pvp to die. i personally solo mostly and basicly only in lowsec vs pirates. but pvp now seems to me that pvp is develpoing into who has more falcons alts. mean i was allright with fighting couple bs and the falcon got a jam in once in a while, maybe on a crucial time, but lately all my deaths have been me sitting in a ship watching 3-7 falcons permajamming me 200km away. now this seems overpowered. u can just frak off and cloak when ever a threat comes close. now her is my proposal introduce dimishing returns on jamming, so u¦ll get jammed for 20 secons the first time then after each succesful jam the time u cant lock will slowly reach zero , but a jam will always break your lock, OR give sentrys more range so the falcon pilots actually have to watch out for something now when nanos are dead Rus If you mess with ECM ranges, than you screw pirates even more. Right now pirates can use Falcons, only 150km+ from the gate, while everyone else can just warp at 100km and jam to their heart's delight, without the need for jamm spots; pirates need to have jam spots whereever they go. If Falcons either lose ECM range without the sentries themselves losing range, or if sentries gain range outright, then pirates will have it impossible to run Falcons, unless they dedicate all 3 lows to a passive armor tank and they sit within 2-3km of the bs's for RR, which would reduce Falcon jamming effectiveness considerably. I understand your beef, but think about it for a while. PS: Ever try fighting an ECM war on a Jita 4-4 model station as a pirate ? You have only one spot from which you can jam, while their friends can just warp in everywhere and do it without worries. --- I smack just for myself. * Your signature file is to large. Please note: we do not allow signature files larger than 24000 bytes - Fallout
StoreSlem Minmatar 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.12.04 11:55:00 - [42] Falcon pirates crying because sentries might shoot them? 250km range sentries would be great. Falcons would need a buffer tank and half-awake pilots like any other pirate in the gatecamp. What's the deal, you guys could even skip the projector rigs then.
Johncrab Minmatar XBeyond	Posted - 2008.12.04 13:10:00 - [43] Nerf ecm, yes, in fact, just remove it from game. Only form of ew that totally ruins the fun factor in pvp. But sentry guns are fine. I love to pvp solo or only with 1 or 2 friends. Think if you have the right skills and fly the right ship, you can actually pvp solo all the time.
Vall Kor Minmatar Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2008.12.04 15:41:00 - [44] I gave up on trying to find 1v1 battles.. Every time i thought I had a 1v1 it's always turned into a 3 or 4 v 1... Blob or die seems to be the way to go. "Forbid a man to think for himself or to act for himself and you may add the joy of piracy and the zest of smuggling to his life." Elbert Hubbard
Lilith Velkor Minmatar DEATH'S LEGION Red Box.	Posted - 2008.12.04 19:17:00 - [45] Originally by: StoreSlem Falcon pirates crying because sentries might shoot them? 250km range sentries would be great. Falcons would need a buffer tank and half-awake pilots like any other pirate in the gatecamp. What's the deal, you guys could even skip the projector rigs then. So, basically you dont like pirates bringing falcons to the fight too? Don't like the idea, as it is mostly the non-pirates that bring half the fleet in falcons anyway...
StoreSlem Minmatar 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.12.04 19:48:00 - [46] No I think pirates using falcons is okay. I just don't think there is a reason they should be able to operate in near complete safety without any thought given to tanking. They can fit buffer tanks or be part of a remote rep setup like all other pirates.
Lilith Velkor Minmatar DEATH'S LEGION Red Box.	Posted - 2008.12.05 03:14:00 - [47] Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 05/12/2008 03:18:44 So you already have the advantage of being able to deploy a falcon in one step, and thats still not enough? The 150km minimum distance is already enough penalty, it is far too easy to hide behind sentry guns anyway on the solo / small group level. And dont tell me your falcon sitting at 100km is tanked to hell and back because it'll get shot any second.
StoreSlem Minmatar 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.12.05 11:04:00 - [48] Originally by: Lilith Velkor Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 05/12/2008 03:18:44 So you already have the advantage of being able to deploy a falcon in one step, and thats still not enough? The 150km minimum distance is already enough penalty, it is far too easy to hide behind sentry guns anyway on the solo / small group level. And dont tell me your falcon sitting at 100km is tanked to hell and back because it'll get shot any second. Not having very high hopes for this discussion seeing your last replies probably being some very poor straw-man lulz, but I'll reiterate for you again just in case it was the reading comprehension: FALCONS SHOULD NOT RETAIN 100% EFFICIENCY WHILE EVADING THE PENALTIES OF GLOBAL CRIMINAL FLAG FALCONS SHOULD NOT RETAIN 100% EFFICIENCY WHILE EVADING THE PENALTIES OF GLOBAL CRIMINAL FLAG FALCONS SHOULD NOT RETAIN 100% EFFICIENCY WHILE EVADING THE PENALTIES OF GLOBAL CRIMINAL FLAG FALCONS SHOULD NOT RETAIN 100% EFFICIENCY WHILE EVADING THE PENALTIES OF GLOBAL CRIMINAL FLAG FALCONS SHOULD NOT RETAIN 100% EFFICIENCY WHILE EVADING THE PENALTIES OF GLOBAL CRIMINAL FLAG
waruiushiro	Posted - 2008.12.05 13:35:00 - [49] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 29/11/2008 10:21:01 Originally by: Selene Dukat Let me make sure I'm getting this right... A bunch of people are complaining that solo pvp is dead, but then in their examples, they are complaining about losing to a gang of ships? Why can't my one ship take out three??? DAMN YOU ECM!!! That doesn't seem to make much sense. Why? Because I can kill your solo BS in a ceptor + my falcon. This is what solo pvpers complain about. Falcons decloaking from nowhere and totally tilting the table even with a crappy fleet. What we want is to be able to shoot back. It is ok if we lose but we want to have a shot at shooting something while we go down. It is not about winning, it is about being able to fight. You really don't see a problem with falcons? I love it when Falcon pilots complain about Falcons. Agreed though, there should be a way to shoot back. I'm sure it's been suggested before, but we need a way to manually aim and fire the guns. If you're jammed and someone's just sitting there blasting away at you, then you should be able to take control of your turrets, line em up in your sights and start blasting back. Seriously, being able to do this would eliminate a lot of the complaints over being jammed... it would at least allow you to do something.
Muad' Dib Gallente Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2008.12.05 14:33:00 - [50] Edited by: Muad'' Dib on 05/12/2008 14:38:22 Edited by: Muad'' Dib on 05/12/2008 14:36:08 Originally by: StoreSlem No I think pirates using falcons is okay. I just don't think there is a reason they should be able to operate in near complete safety without any thought given to tanking. They can fit buffer tanks or be part of a remote rep setup like all other pirates. Feel free to post a Falcon setup that ca tank sentries + 500-1000 dps being thrown at him and that can still jamm effectively ... and i'm not talking frigate class. Originally by: StoreSlem Originally by: Lilith Velkor Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 05/12/2008 03:18:44 So you already have the advantage of being able to deploy a falcon in one step, and thats still not enough? The 150km minimum distance is already enough penalty, it is far too easy to hide behind sentry guns anyway on the solo / small group level. And dont tell me your falcon sitting at 100km is tanked to hell and back because it'll get shot any second. Not having very high hopes for this discussion seeing your last replies probably being some very poor straw-man lulz, but I'll reiterate for you again just in case it was the reading comprehension: FALCONS SHOULD NOT RETAIN 100% EFFICIENCY WHILE EVADING THE PENALTIES OF GLOBAL CRIMINAL FLAG FALCONS SHOULD NOT RETAIN 100% EFFICIENCY WHILE EVADING THE PENALTIES OF GLOBAL CRIMINAL FLAG FALCONS SHOULD NOT RETAIN 100% EFFICIENCY WHILE EVADING THE PENALTIES OF GLOBAL CRIMINAL FLAG FALCONS SHOULD NOT RETAIN 100% EFFICIENCY WHILE EVADING THE PENALTIES OF GLOBAL CRIMINAL FLAG FALCONS SHOULD NOT RETAIN 100% EFFICIENCY WHILE EVADING THE PENALTIES OF GLOBAL CRIMINAL FLAG Pirate falcons get GCC and in some station/gate models it's very hard to use them - long range jamming 5 would really help here, while non-pirate falcons can be anywhere around the gate/station with no fear of sentry gun agro .. and this is not enough for anti-pirates already. Pirate falcons should be punished even further by not letting them stay on the gate for more than 1-2 cycles or by completely killing their power - in the case RR would be used. Your really bright m8 ... better stick with your 0.0 stuff. As for shooting back, there are 3 bs's out there that can reach out and touch a Falcon at his 'impossible range' and 2 hacs, not to mention the anti-falcon falcons. You won't kill him, but he will be warping in and out most of the times, cutting his efficiency to almost nothing. --- I smack just for myself. * Your signature file is to large. Please note: we do not allow signature files larger than 24000 bytes - Fallout
Crellion Art of War Exalted.	Posted - 2008.12.05 16:47:00 - [51] Pirate and non pirate means nothing.Its a technical argument. All he is telling you is that the role of the Falcon is such that combined with it's range it means that it can initiate criminal activvity at gate fights with no penalty whatsover, when the nature of such fights usually is that the initiator has to deal with the sentries... Thats all... He might be right or wrong but if you demonstrably fail to grasp his point dont presume to say either way tbh... Arguably my opinions represent to an extent the opinions of my alliance and in particular circumstances give rise to a valid "casus belli" claim.
zombiedeadhead Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2008.12.06 00:07:00 - [52] Solo PvP isn't dying, its making the other poor bastard die
Lilith Velkor Minmatar DEATH'S LEGION Red Box.	Posted - 2008.12.06 04:39:00 - [53] Originally by: Crellion All he is telling you is that the role of the Falcon is such that combined with it's range it means that it can initiate criminal activvity at gate fights with no penalty whatsover, when the nature of such fights usually is that the initiator has to deal with the sentries... It gets its criminal flag like any other ship. Its outside the sentries range, thats all. Tbh, I'd think there is a purpose those things dont shoot that far, you really think destroying sniping as collateral damage is worth that? Considering it wouldnt change anything at all in the bigger scheme of things, as falcons can a) recloak after jamming before the sentries even lock em (works with any force recon btw) b) ignore sentries completely if they time their agression right. Quote: Thats all... He might be right or wrong but if you demonstrably fail to grasp his point dont presume to say either way tbh... What he wants is pretty clear, I was talking about the terrible balance shift for the small gangs his idea would imply. Right now there is equal chance for either groups, increased sentry range would mean pirates could neither use ecm or snipers.
Lusian	Posted - 2008.12.06 23:14:00 - [54] Originally by: Terra Mikael Edited by: Terra Mikael on 29/11/2008 07:47:05 solo pvp isn't dead. You just need 10-15 solo pilots to fleet together in order to be viable edit: go for recons or interceptors if you want solo ability. Choose you targets wisely and know their capacities. This tutorial should be helpful if viewed metaphorically. Remember, knowing is half the battle. The best advice i have seen for solo PvP.
ViperVenom Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2008.12.07 05:07:00 - [55] Solo im not sure if i ever hear of that.... But yes Falcons and BB mean doom in combat now a days. --Yarring in a system near you--
Zalmoxes Haita de lupi THORN Alliance	Posted - 2008.12.07 21:17:00 - [56] if anyone want's to solo pvp just log on the test server, you can have quite a bit of fun there as for tq, you can always solo pvp, all you have to do is fly a ship you can afford to lose and don't engage just any target. since all ships have strong and weak points all you need to do is hunt your pray, but then if you just want a plain 1vs1 fight move to sisi.

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