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solo pvp is dieng- changes to ecm or sentrys

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Rustok Cruor Frater Coalition Of Carebear Killers	Posted - 2008.11.25 20:45:00 - [1] yes yes before you go all like "buts its MMO" some of us actually like solo pvp i have played this game since 2003 and tried it all, and it seems CCP is gona allow solo pvp to die. i personally solo mostly and basicly only in lowsec vs pirates. but pvp now seems to me that pvp is develpoing into who has more falcons alts. mean i was allright with fighting couple bs and the falcon got a jam in once in a while, maybe on a crucial time, but lately all my deaths have been me sitting in a ship watching 3-7 falcons permajamming me 200km away. now this seems overpowered. u can just frak off and cloak when ever a threat comes close. now her is my proposal introduce dimishing returns on jamming, so u¦ll get jammed for 20 secons the first time then after each succesful jam the time u cant lock will slowly reach zero , but a jam will always break your lock, OR give sentrys more range so the falcon pilots actually have to watch out for something now when nanos are dead Rus
Daplat Mode Caldari Mean Corp	Posted - 2008.11.25 22:21:00 - [2] Sounds like you need to pick your fights a bit more carefully tbh. Of course your gonna lose if your trying to "solo" a couple of bs's and 3/7 falcons on a gate wtf is unbalanced about that other than the fight itself? Nobody I fly with is complaining about solo pvp or even small gang pvp at the moment. I think people just need to suck it up and fly.
Volky	Posted - 2008.11.25 22:30:00 - [3] Im so HAPPY to see this cos i pvp alone yes baby i do :) Yeah you kind need to look out cos more and more cowards get togheder to blow up single ship they think they are good hell no any tard can press F1 in 5 ppl gang. kepp it up dude solo is so much more rewarding at least when you kill something you know is you that did it not 4 of you're team mates. But is true that solo is harder and you need alot patiance and calm not to get you're self steemed by smack talk in local :) Gl to you and may we all be famous cos gancers don't got nothing to show for tbh at least i don't respect them.
Soporo Caldari	Posted - 2008.11.25 22:46:00 - [4] Duo (minimum) is the new solo.
Volky	Posted - 2008.11.25 22:54:00 - [5] If i can find 2vs1 again i take it all day friking now is more like 10 vs 1 :(
Ruri Dant Onorata Societa	Posted - 2008.11.25 23:50:00 - [6] I agree with OP, Dampeners, are either range or resolution. Turret destabilizers slow tracking but dont turn the guns off copletely so gives a chance vs semi stationary targets Energy Neuts give a chance to most ppl to fight back but not to who need cap to fire. Jammers break lock, preventing ALL extra ship activity, EVEN FRIENDLY, like close remote reps and all them friendly things, chance based may be, but a Falcon full antiracial will snipejam and close down 90% of enemies, easy it could do 2 with luck 3. Yeah yeah but ppl could fit ECCM, but if i have to plan to get jammed, and tank, and deal damage, and this and that it's impossible, if u in a small gang difersification is even more difficult, and if u are in solo, it's impossible! R
Joss Sparq Caldari ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.26 12:12:00 - [7] Originally by: Ruri Dant Yeah yeah but ppl could fit ECCM, but if i have to plan to get jammed, and tank, and deal damage, and this and that it's impossible, if u in a small gang difersification is even more difficult, and if u are in solo, it's impossible! R Yes, clearly the Falcon is a grave threat in solo PvP, what with having all those damage bonuses and high-slots for weapons.
Dasalt Istgut	Posted - 2008.11.26 12:31:00 - [8] Originally by: Rustok yes yes before you go all like "buts its MMO" some of us actually like solo pvp i have played this game since 2003 and tried it all, and it seems CCP is gona allow solo pvp to die. i personally solo mostly and basicly only in lowsec vs pirates. but pvp now seems to me that pvp is develpoing into who has more falcons alts. mean i was allright with fighting couple bs and the falcon got a jam in once in a while, maybe on a crucial time, but lately all my deaths have been me sitting in a ship watching 3-7 falcons permajamming me 200km away. now this seems overpowered. u can just frak off and cloak when ever a threat comes close. now her is my proposal introduce dimishing returns on jamming, so u¦ll get jammed for 20 secons the first time then after each succesful jam the time u cant lock will slowly reach zero , but a jam will always break your lock, OR give sentrys more range so the falcon pilots actually have to watch out for something now when nanos are dead Rus No you can't solo a group of enemy ships who aren't dumb. Replace falcon with griffin, rapier or brutix and the end result is still the same (you - dead).
Dasalt Istgut	Posted - 2008.11.26 12:33:00 - [9] Originally by: Ruri Dant I agree with OP, Dampeners, are either range or resolution. Turret destabilizers slow tracking but dont turn the guns off copletely so gives a chance vs semi stationary targets Energy Neuts give a chance to most ppl to fight back but not to who need cap to fire. Jammers break lock, preventing ALL extra ship activity, EVEN FRIENDLY, like close remote reps and all them friendly things, chance based may be, but a Falcon full antiracial will snipejam and close down 90% of enemies, easy it could do 2 with luck 3. Yeah yeah but ppl could fit ECCM, but if i have to plan to get jammed, and tank, and deal damage, and this and that it's impossible, if u in a small gang difersification is even more difficult, and if u are in solo, it's impossible! R If there was a solo ship that could do everything, we'd all fly it. Except those of us that were smart would do it in gangs. You can't have both "balance" and "solo ships that can counter everyone" at the same time.
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2008.11.26 12:40:00 - [10] The low-sec pirates using Falcons is the real problem, Falcons in Fleet warfare is not so bad as you generally have ships to deal with them. A change I support more than others is to tweak the range of ECM. The 200km+ is a leftover from a time when ships to counter jamming were going 6-10k/s. Swap the optimal and fall-off stats for ECM modules to bring the ECM ships in line with the other eWar platforms. It is practically impossible to 'choose' a good fight as the jammers are unaffiliated neutrals, often still in NPC corps so checking info gives no clue. For low-sec until ECM is tweaked; Increase gate sentries range to max. targeting, 250km .. if a neutral Falcon chooses to engage he can have the privilege of taking his rightful place in the aggression cue for the guns. I don't think people still use snipers to grief so it shouldn't be an issue for most pirates.
Dasalt Istgut	Posted - 2008.11.26 12:52:00 - [11] Originally by: Hirana Yoshida The low-sec pirates using Falcons is the real problem, Falcons in Fleet warfare is not so bad as you generally have ships to deal with them. A change I support more than others is to tweak the range of ECM. The 200km+ is a leftover from a time when ships to counter jamming were going 6-10k/s. Swap the optimal and fall-off stats for ECM modules to bring the ECM ships in line with the other eWar platforms. It is practically impossible to 'choose' a good fight as the jammers are unaffiliated neutrals, often still in NPC corps so checking info gives no clue. For low-sec until ECM is tweaked; Increase gate sentries range to max. targeting, 250km .. if a neutral Falcon chooses to engage he can have the privilege of taking his rightful place in the aggression cue for the guns. I don't think people still use snipers to grief so it shouldn't be an issue for most pirates. Fly in a gang and have one person fly an ECCM fitted scorpion. Takes all of two weeks to train for. Problem solved. People just need to get it into their head that engaging multiple hostiles solo = death.
The Tzar Malicious Intentions	Posted - 2008.11.26 13:29:00 - [12] Edited by: The Tzar on 26/11/2008 13:29:34 Originally by: Rustok OR give sentrys more range so the falcon pilots actually have to watch out for something now when nanos are dead Rus Give falcon pilots 'something to watch out for'??!! Give them drones, stats so that it is not necessary to ENTIRELY fit the ship for ECM..., you know like the other recons and more mids such that they can buffer without gimping their one defence to survive maybe two volleys from your new sentries. edit: spelling __________________________________________ 'Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear intelligent until they speak' __________________________________________
Rustok Cruor Frater Coalition Of Carebear Killers	Posted - 2008.11.26 17:00:00 - [13] since i dont know how to quote. to dasalt, in the majority of the fights if they had replaced the falcon with something else they most likely would have lost 1-2 more ships but the end result is my death ofc. But having one or more ships sitting cloaked 200km+ from sentry guns not having to sacrifice any medslots for a tank while all other ships that are gona camp lowsec have to sacrifice slots for tanking, no other ship class can do that and its unballanced imo. falcon serves its purpose in 0.0 fleet fights where this extreem range is required sometimes. and to that ECCM my ship of choice has only 3 medslots not giving much room for eccm. but then again i have been in my tempest with dual ECCM overloaded and still getting jammed by light ecm drones maybe bad luck. giving sentrys more range would most likely sort this out.
H Lecter Gallente The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2008.11.26 17:56:00 - [14] Originally by: Rustok giving sentrys more range would most likely sort this out. So non-flashy ppl could jam flashies at losec gates while the flashies could not return the favour..? Looking at your corp name I'm surprised to hear such an idea from you. My opinion is purely personal and not related to my alliance
Lord Morgo LEGI0N	Posted - 2008.11.26 18:26:00 - [15] As somebody else who enjoys solo pvp when able, I have to agree with a lot of what others have put above. There should be no single "solo-pvp" vessel, or we'd all fly it. You can't blame a pilot for either 1. Having friends or 2. flying a falcon. Something else that was ranged was reducing the effective range of an ecm boat, which again I think is a good idea. If it misses a cycle, it should be within range for the now un-jammed ship to return fire. Now I don't mean blaster range, but maybe 50-60k instead of the seemingly standard 100k. my two cents.
Lilith Velkor Minmatar DEATH'S LEGION	Posted - 2008.11.26 20:14:00 - [16] tbh, just be glad you're only fighting pirates, at least they have to rig their falcons for range and cant use ecm strength
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Home 0f Bored Occultists	Posted - 2008.11.26 22:19:00 - [17] Originally by: Lilith Velkor tbh, just be glad you're only fighting pirates, at least they have to rig their falcons for range and cant use ecm strength So what? Lows are 3x ecm str mods. You don't need the str rigs, only range. ----------------------------------------- [Video] The Cruise
atiJ sdrawkcaB	Posted - 2008.11.26 22:41:00 - [18] I've had zero 1v1 fights in the last 3 weeks. I don't consider ganking a shuttle or a pod a fight. Solo PVP is dead because you can't solo a gang and people have stopped trying. People run from a fight if they're alone - and it's the smart thing to do. Can't blame 'em. Would be nice if there was a deuling mechanism where you could warp off to a random place and fight someone without ANY interference, but that still wouldn't fix the basic problem.
SheriffFruitfly Caldari	Posted - 2008.11.27 00:21:00 - [19] I've only ever seen people talk about this mythical thing "solo pvp". __________________________________________________________
Lilith Velkor Minmatar DEATH'S LEGION	Posted - 2008.11.27 02:58:00 - [20] Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 27/11/2008 03:00:10 Originally by: Lyria Skydancer So what? Lows are 3x ecm str mods. You don't need the str rigs, only range. You'd be surprised how many people fit a 1600mm plate on their falcons. An estimate, but I'd say 2/3 of the falcons that end on battleclinic use the augmentor rigs
Ka Jolo The Tuskers	Posted - 2008.11.27 04:13:00 - [21] As someone who frequently gets in solo fights, and knows plenty of others who do the same, I'm trying to figure out what's behind the repeated "solo PvP is dead" claims. Does believing that make you feel better about yourself for ganging up? Are you stuck on one or two kinds of PvP where solo fights are indeed a relic of the past? One thing's for sure: when lots of pilots are doing PvP solo, it seems silly to claim "solo PvP is dead."
King Rothgar	Posted - 2008.11.27 09:04:00 - [22] Solo PvP is not dead, go to a trade/mission hub, war dec every corp in sight, have fun. You will get the occasional group who will actually pin you in the station and smack you for not sticking around for a 16 vs 1 fight, but most of the time you can pluck off single players. Some are good, some are not and regardless of skill some will willingly come and fight you 1 vs 1 while others obvlivious to their surroundings get ganked. Solo in low sec is a bad idea unless you are in a cloaked ship. So get a cloaked ship and be patient. Many kills can be had in a recon if you pick your targets carefully. It is true ECM makes life difficult, but deal with it. It can be overcome. I typically fit an ECCM on my pvp ships, it doesn't remove solo tackle, tank or gank. But it does make me damn near jam proof in a BS to all but the most dedicated jammers. Besides, drones deal with blackbirds and their t2 friends just fine. And those ships do laughable dps, so alone they are rather harmless.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Home 0f Bored Occultists	Posted - 2008.11.27 10:15:00 - [23] Originally by: Lilith Velkor Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 27/11/2008 03:00:10 Originally by: Lyria Skydancer So what? Lows are 3x ecm str mods. You don't need the str rigs, only range. You'd be surprised how many people fit a 1600mm plate on their falcons. An estimate, but I'd say 2/3 of the falcons that end on battleclinic use the augmentor rigs Low sec falcons do not fit plates. Low sec falcons are pretty much invincible if you dont make a mistake. The falcons on battleclinic death mails are therefor either 0.0 fleet falcons or fail low sec falcons.
Telvar Hooligans Of War	Posted - 2008.11.27 11:01:00 - [24] Originally by: H Lecter Originally by: Rustok giving sentrys more range would most likely sort this out. So non-flashy ppl could jam flashies at losec gates while the flashies could not return the favour..? Looking at your corp name I'm surprised to hear such an idea from you. God forbid that ships need to fit a tank while engaging at a gate. Wheres the challenge or enjoyment of always having a win/win situation.
Dihania Gallente SniggWaffe	Posted - 2008.11.27 12:23:00 - [25] Edited by: Dihania on 27/11/2008 12:38:04 1. Solo PVP has been in a bad state for much longer than when QR came out. 2. Even so it was and is still possible. 3. With the changes to speed, missiles and rest of the stuff I believe Solo PVP is much more doable now than before QR. AFs are more reliable and small ships in general. Fast cruisers and HACs are still fast compared to the other ships. Changes to Web and Scrambler give a new dimension to combat. Using Web with the Scrambler makes many trying to re-approach the gate very sad. You never know if the other ship has a Disruptor or a Scrambler. Etc. Soloing is not dieing. Edit: Falcons have been powerful for a long time now but any interceptor going that way makes them run. All you need is a fast ship and the Falcon warps out. Engaging multiple targets while you are alone, sorry, but it is only natural for the odds to be against you. If you are alone and fight multiple targets, one o them being a Falcon, you lost from the start. It does not matter if there are other Falcons there. And it is not only the Falcon, it is also the Griffin or any ECMing ship, but then again it is also any neutralizing ship. Even if you are buffer tanked and your weapons use no cap, for you to move at any speed higher than normal or use a Web or a Disruptor or any other module that requires cap will be impossible. The outcome si the same, you die. The very same happens when you go against multiple targets from which one (or more) is a logistics. The odds are very much against you. What do you do, you go for the damage dealer, the logistic or the support ? If you for the logistic, chances are they put on more damage into you by the time you killed the logistic and this is if the logistic is unable to get out and come back into the fight. If you go for anything else other than the logistic you are obviously dead. See where the problem lies here ? Those who where going for fast ships in gangs now go for ships that can supplement in some way their previous survival rate. Also a gang is a gang, was a gang, will be a gang. One versus many was, is and will be a pita. Nothing has changed to kill solo, solo is more viable now, because people have not yet found the FOTM and it just may be that the FOTM is in fact FOTMS. [hrhr] Sniggwaffe is recruiting. Visit channel "join sniggwaffe" in game.
Baudolino Gallente Royal Crimson Lancers	Posted - 2008.11.27 12:24:00 - [26] as of today ECM is out of touch with the game in general. In the days of hi-octane, high speed maneuvers you could be on top of a falcon in 10 sec or even less. Quite often the falcon wouldn`t even register someone was approaching until it was too late.. heavy interdictors seemed to me to be the perfect anti falcon ship as they could nano on top of the falcon and drop a bubble- giving people the chance to come in and gank him. With todays crap speed and falcons still jamming from 150-200km it`s just not possible to get on top of them. Scripts seem to be a good solution.. on the other hand.. CCP has, in my opinion severaly damaged the game with recent changes to combat and speed- not only for the reasons of further debilitating solo and small gang PvP, or making the falcon more powerfull or several other reasons which i`ll not get into at this point- but they`re also making the game very focused on short range combat.. medium and long range has always been weak, but they`re further removing it as engagement opportunities. CCP better sit down and have a major rethink soon- and please.... do it with players who actually know the game and understand how the different aspects of it mesh..
Dihania Gallente SniggWaffe	Posted - 2008.11.27 12:47:00 - [27] Have you ever considered: * replacing the HIC with an Interceptor ? * using your own ECM ship(s) ? * remote sensor dampners, useless you say? ha :) * how about a cloacker ? You can counter a Falcon easy and since everybody knows today that when engaging there will be one, it is simple to just be prepared all the time. [hrhr] Sniggwaffe is recruiting. Visit channel "join sniggwaffe" in game.
Zankii	Posted - 2008.11.27 13:07:00 - [28] jammed by falcon hmm I expect too be perma-jammed solo by falcon. but i still havent figured out why gallente ( drone spec race) recons have same drone bay as minmator and amarr recons have larger drone bay and a drone dmg bonus seems like maybe should be otherway around.
Arazel Chainfire Dissolution Of Eternity Ethikos Trade Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.27 18:11:00 - [29] Let me make this quite clear to everyone Solo PvP is NOT 1v1 Solo PvP is 1v several The biggest problem is getting that several people to actually attack when they don't have overwhelming numbers. I will happily take 1v5 odds as long as there isn't a falcon or other ecm ship on the other side - yes, i'll probably get destroyed, but i'll take 1 or 2 of them with me, and if I'm lucky, I might even come out of it with a few hull hp's left. That is what solo pvp is. We aren't complaining because we're outnumbered - heck, being outnumbered just adds to the fun. What we're complaining about is the inability to kill anything, heck, even engage anything without being jammed to hell and back or being so outnumbered that we can't even kill a frigging frigate before they take us out. To people who say that a falcon won't permajam you - sure he won't, if he has more targets than just you. But that kinda means that you aren't solo - any falcon, even using the wrong kind of racial jammers, can permajam 1 enemy ship, even if he is fitting eccm. What we would like is something so that we have the chance to kill something before we're popped ourselves. And yes, I do think that even when outnumbered 5 to 1 I should be able to pop a cruiser (t1 or t2) in my battleship before I go down. -Arazel Originally by: Tsanse Kinske Mutual Incomprehension is one of the Four Horsemen of most internet arguments, I guess, along with Unfettered Hostility, Overwhelming Vagueness, and Lack of Evidence.
Lilith Velkor Minmatar DEATH'S LEGION Red Box.	Posted - 2008.11.28 01:04:00 - [30] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Low sec falcons do not fit plates. Low sec falcons are pretty much invincible if you dont make a mistake. The falcons on battleclinic death mails are therefor either 0.0 fleet falcons or fail low sec falcons. Pirates will always fit projector rigs ofc, but in my experience they're generally not as heavy on ewar, compared to carebear blobs engaging flashies or (faction) wartargets that tend to have half the fleet in falcons (most of those fit plates+augmentors). I'd not even say its a fail fit, people just go for the plate since it gives the bigger buffer compared with a LSE, and those that dont need the range and actually worry about their missing SDA fit the augmentors. You obviously get about the same or even a bit better performance from 3 SDA and one less jammer, plus the nice range ontop when going with a LSE and projectors, besides a 15k something buffer is crappy anyway. A real fail fit would be 3 SDAs and augmentor rigs tho, as you gain almost nothing from the rigs.

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