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El'essar Viocragh Minmatar Meltd0wn The Black Isle	Posted - 2008.11.25 22:58:00 - [1] Apocalypse, 8x Mega Beam Laser II, Aurora L 2x Energy Locus Rigs, 1x Tracking Enhancer II 3 Mods = 210km Optimal + 20km Falloff 1457 Volley, 225 DPS Rokh, 8x 425mm Railgun II, Spike L 1x Hybrid Locus Rig, 1x Tracking Computer / Optimal Script 2 Mods = 253km Optimal + 30km Falloff 1336 Volley, 194 DPS Megathron, 7x 425mm Railgun II, Spike L 2x Hybrid Locus Rigs, 1x Tracking Computer / Optimal Script, 1x Tracking Enhancer 4 Mods = 191km Optimal + 30km Falloff 1461 Volley, 212 DPS Maelstrom, 8x 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Tremor L 3x Projectile Locus Rigs, 4x Tracking Computer / Optimal Script, 4x Tracking Enhancer 11 Mods = 167km Optimal + 44km Falloff 2933 Volley, 230 DPS To go the ranges the other races can go, even with a setup as ridiculous as the one above, Minmatar have to fight in more than single falloff? At +-33% nominal dps? Seriously? The Megathron is still bearable, but what are we supposed to do with Maelstrom and Tempest? Reprocess? -- [17:47] <Mephysto> its dead, jim
Washell Olivaw	Posted - 2008.11.26 00:41:00 - [2] CCP does not attempt to maintain balance on a 2 attributes vs 2 attributes or even on a ship vs ship basis. E.g. a race' weak battleships may be balanced by having strong cruisers. Originally by: Signature Everybody has a photographic memory, some people just don't have film.
Roemy Schneider BINFORD	Posted - 2008.11.26 05:23:00 - [3] wanna include tempest HP, lock range, clip size, dps, cap, powergrid and stuff? the "extra" highslot for remote repping accounts for only so much - putting the gist back into logistics
El'essar Viocragh Minmatar Meltd0wn The Black Isle	Posted - 2008.11.26 05:46:00 - [4] Originally by: Washell Olivaw CCP does not attempt to maintain balance on a 2 attributes vs 2 attributes or even on a ship vs ship basis. E.g. a race' weak battleships may be balanced by having strong cruisers. So, you are saying, having the strongest EW and the only EW battleships should have been enough for Caldari and the Tier 3 battleship introduction was uncalled for, as other ships balanced the lack of a caldari direct damage fleet battleship? Right.... -- [17:47] <Mephysto> its dead, jim
Typhado3 Minmatar Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.11.26 06:43:00 - [5] Edited by: Typhado3 on 26/11/2008 06:46:29 Edited by: Typhado3 on 26/11/2008 06:45:14 while the poster above is right about it being more than 2 attributes I gotta agree that minmatar sniper ships suck atm. So what? every race is good at something while being bad at something else, my problem is the minmatar weren't always like this we used to have awesome sniper ships that where some of the best snipers and could do amazing alpha's. We seem to have slowly lost our sniper ability over the years, the problem i think is ccp don't have a good set goal or racial idea (beside speed) for what minmatar should be like. Look at recent patch it nerfed speed while boosting target painters, though I've always wanted minmatar to be good at ew I remember complaining heaps about minmatar having a sucky ew ages ago and ccp responded in a interview saying they thought that 'ew was a more gal/cal thing and they had no plans to change it' yet latest patch pushes our minmatar ew to be arguably the 2nd best of the ew. Another example is the maelstrom which makes a decent ship when setup with ac and going for kiting at close range, while being not so good but still workable as an arty boat. kinda strange considering it's stats push it towards being a sniper (slower speed, longer lock range), I think the main cause of this is it getting stuck with a shield boost bonus, cause all the other races got it, rather than something that could be useful for a fleet sniper bs. ccp fix mining agent missions % pls
Virgo I'Platonicus Ex Eventus Corpi	Posted - 2008.11.26 07:27:00 - [6] Edited by: Virgo I''Platonicus on 26/11/2008 07:27:32 Originally by: El'essar Viocragh Maelstrom, 8x 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Tremor L 3x Projectile Locus Rigs, 4x Tracking Computer / Optimal Script, 4x Tracking Enhancer 11 Mods = 167km Optimal + 44km Falloff 2933 Volley, 230 DPS Hm. As far as i can tell from your numbers, this thing gives out 1466.5 alpha at 211 km = 115 dps. Looks minny dps to me - high alpha, actually highest of all, while crap dps. Checks out. Highest DPS at 167km and keeps the first place in dps for a about 10km to 177 km. The ship can snipe but not best of all ships. As the minny ships are the lightest and most quick on their feet while having bonuses to tackling modules and speed, i believe giving them a dps boost would be overkill. If you're in for dps, look for amarr/gallente. Change the mubers to the way you would like them to be and we'll see where it gets us. V. <3
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Infinity Enterprises	Posted - 2008.11.26 09:00:00 - [7] Originally by: Virgo I'Platonicus Edited by: Virgo I''Platonicus on 26/11/2008 07:27:32 Originally by: El'essar Viocragh Maelstrom, 8x 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Tremor L 3x Projectile Locus Rigs, 4x Tracking Computer / Optimal Script, 4x Tracking Enhancer 11 Mods = 167km Optimal + 44km Falloff 2933 Volley, 230 DPS Hm. As far as i can tell from your numbers, this thing gives out 1466.5 alpha at 211 km = 115 dps. Looks minny dps to me - high alpha, actually highest of all, while crap dps. Checks out. Highest DPS at 167km and keeps the first place in dps for a about 10km to 177 km. The ship can snipe but not best of all ships. As the minny ships are the lightest and most quick on their feet while having bonuses to tackling modules and speed, i believe giving them a dps boost would be overkill. If you're in for dps, look for amarr/gallente. Change the mubers to the way you would like them to be and we'll see where it gets us. V. you seems to miss the part where the ships needs 11 range mods to reach that "satisfactory" performacne you state :) Solving arties would be simple if CCP wanted. Really. Even keeping flavor.. Increase arties falloff 50%. Increase damage 33% and reduce rof 25% ( same final DPS). Would reduce the problem issue while keeping minmatar with some range disadvantage, would bring alpha strike back to play while keeping same dps. Would increase the time before reload. Very simple. ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
El'essar Viocragh Minmatar Meltd0wn The Black Isle	Posted - 2008.11.26 09:12:00 - [8] Originally by: Virgo I'Platonicus Hm. As far as i can tell from your numbers, this thing gives out 1466.5 alpha at 211 km = 115 dps. Looks minny dps to me - high alpha, actually highest of all, while crap dps. Checks out. Alpha is useless if you do not hit. Quote: Highest DPS at 167km and keeps the first place in dps for a about 10km to 177 km. The ship can snipe but not best of all ships. Remove the two rigs from the Apoc and you have 225dps at 171km optimal range. With only one range mod used while the Maelstrom has to use at leat 5 to get anywhere close. For 5dps advantage. Yeah right. Quote: As the minny ships are the lightest and most quick on their feet while having bonuses to tackling modules and speed, i believe giving them a dps boost would be overkill. Maelstrom Mass: 103,600,000 kg Inertia: 0.12 Velocity: 94m/s Abaddon Mass: 103,200,000 kg Inertia: 0.12 Velocity: 89m/s Not sure about the light, but indeed, we are 5m/s faster. I am not looking for the be-all, end-all of Sniper battleships. I am asking for the Minmatar battleships (at least one of them) to be viable again. Having to use twice as many modules for 35+km less optimal range is not countered by 14km more falloff. Going with your calculations, the statistical volley is about the same, the Maelstrom/Tempest simply have lower DPS. If your fleet has a lot of Minmatar pilots in it, you can't effectively go beyond 150km. If the other fleet has strong Caldari/Amarr participation, they simply pick you off with your 12%-something chance to hit at 220km. You brought a knife to a gunfight. Before locus rigs were re-stack nerfed, you needed 5 range modules on a Maelstrom to hit 198km optimal which left basically no slots for hitpoints besides a lone Damage Control II. It wasn't great but it was at least viable to some extent. -- [17:47] <Mephysto> its dead, jim
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Home 0f Bored Occultists	Posted - 2008.11.26 12:03:00 - [9] Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 26/11/2008 12:03:57 Originally by: El'essar Viocragh Originally by: Washell Olivaw CCP does not attempt to maintain balance on a 2 attributes vs 2 attributes or even on a ship vs ship basis. E.g. a race' weak battleships may be balanced by having strong cruisers. So, you are saying, having the strongest EW and the only EW battleships should have been enough for Caldari and the Tier 3 battleship introduction was uncalled for, as other ships balanced the lack of a caldari direct damage fleet battleship? Right.... Caldari have always the longest ranges and best ew but crap solo. Amarr have mediun range gank and tank but lack of mids. Gallente have active tank and close range gank and good tackle. Minmatar have capless weapons and utility highs good tackle and speed but less gank and tank. This is nothing new. You just picked the wrong race if you're not happy. ----------------------------------------- [Video] The Cruise
Typhado3 Minmatar Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.11.26 13:00:00 - [10] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 26/11/2008 12:03:57 Originally by: El'essar Viocragh Originally by: Washell Olivaw CCP does not attempt to maintain balance on a 2 attributes vs 2 attributes or even on a ship vs ship basis. E.g. a race' weak battleships may be balanced by having strong cruisers. So, you are saying, having the strongest EW and the only EW battleships should have been enough for Caldari and the Tier 3 battleship introduction was uncalled for, as other ships balanced the lack of a caldari direct damage fleet battleship? Right.... Caldari have always the longest ranges and best ew but crap solo. Amarr have mediun range gank and tank but lack of mids. Gallente have active tank and close range gank and good tackle. Minmatar have capless weapons and utility highs good tackle and speed but less gank and tank. This is nothing new. You just picked the wrong race if you're not happy. caldari have capless weapons and raven has as many utility slots as the tempest, scorp has 6 utility slots like the domi (which is imo the most flexible ship). While minmatar are the best tacklers with ships like the rapier in a lot of cases any ship with a point will do and there will be no difference. Also the best of the tacklers the heavy dictors all perform decent with none of them being a clear winner. ccp fix mining agent missions % pls

Nian Banks Minmatar Berserkers of Aesir	Posted - 2008.11.26 13:36:00 - [11] Edited by: Nian Banks on 26/11/2008 13:40:26 Projectile weapons have fundinental flaws, if ccp cared at all about the problems minmatar have highlighted for years, then they wouldn't keep nerfing them, directly or indirectly. To fix projectiles tho, two simple fixes are needded. 1: 0 reload time. Adds about 5% dps over long fights and adds utility with easy ammo swapping. 2: add an equal % range bonus to falloff on all optimal boosting modules and a falloff bonus to depleted uranium.
El'essar Viocragh Minmatar Meltd0wn The Black Isle	Posted - 2008.11.26 16:40:00 - [12] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Caldari have always the longest ranges and best ew but crap solo. Amarr have mediun range gank and tank but lack of mids. Gallente have active tank and close range gank and good tackle. Minmatar have capless weapons and utility highs good tackle and speed but less gank and tank. This is nothing new. You just picked the wrong race if you're not happy. Before I started playing Eve, Caldari were effectively excluded from BS Fleet warfare outside of the Scorpion because no rail platform existed. The tier 3 battleships were at least partially introduced because of this (that's my understanding at least). When I joined Eve, Apocs were the red headed stepchildren of BS fleets because it simply had too many problems to be viable. The Amarrian players did a good job campaigning for it, and it became a viable, arguably one of the best, sniper BS. I might be wrong, but I think you were part of that campaign too. Now, due to an accumulation of various different changes to the game, the Minmatar BS aren't viable fleet bs anymore. Exactly why should I be consent with that, and not campaign for a change, like the Amarrians did? -- [17:47] <Mephysto> its dead, jim
Koyama Ise Caldari Equestrian Knight Order of Lolicon	Posted - 2008.11.27 01:50:00 - [13] The problem here is the CCP design I believe wants Minmatar to snipe in falloff which in-itself is pretty stupid. And with that design model even if it is silly it would work better if it was easier to increase falloff. But yeah Minmatar doesn't seem to do the Sniping thing well
Laice Caldari Judicial Blade Novus Aevum	Posted - 2008.11.27 04:01:00 - [14] my 2 isk, if every race were the same, if every tier 3 battleship were the same, etc, it would be boring as hell, there would be no variation in fights at all. The beautiful thing about this is it forces 2 sniping ships to move, or if you fancy a sniping ship, you have 4 posibilities to choose from suiting you taste. You would need to incorporate every variable of every ship to show the true results. I mean hell the rokh has optimal range bonusses, the other ships have something different. Its different, and thats what i love about this game at times :) The mael and tempest both have their advantages over other ships in different setups if you look for them. Regards Laice
Nian Banks Minmatar Berserkers of Aesir	Posted - 2008.11.27 06:09:00 - [15] Originally by: Laice my 2 isk, if every race were the same, if every tier 3 battleship were the same, etc, it would be boring as hell, there would be no variation in fights at all. The beautiful thing about this is it forces 2 sniping ships to move, or if you fancy a sniping ship, you have 4 posibilities to choose from suiting you taste. You would need to incorporate every variable of every ship to show the true results. I mean hell the rokh has optimal range bonusses, the other ships have something different. Its different, and thats what i love about this game at times :) The mael and tempest both have their advantages over other ships in different setups if you look for them. Regards Laice Oh the ship stats are fine, its the weapons that need a big buff. Tho looking at the mael, actually look at all minmatar and galente ships with the repair bonuses, even tho all stats are balanced for each tier, when caldari and amarr have the 5%/lvl resist bonus, that ships tanking bonus is considerably better than the 7.5% repair bonus. All stats are well balanced but the tanking bonuses aren't. Its another thing that isn't compensated for with stats, CCP just twiddle their thumbs and mumble something about the 5%resist/lvl and the 7.5%repair/lvl bonuses are equal and balanced. Which they aren't. If you ignore things like this then you start to get the imbalances going, and let me remind you that people are training lvl5 skills that give just 2% to the effectiveness of something, because 2% is an advantage and any advantage is desirable. If CCP considers something balanced which isn't and bases a ship design on that imbalance then the ship itself will be imbalanced in comparison to their counterparts. No matter what some philosophical bloody thespian tries to say on their proverbial soap box, ships of equal tiers must be balanced or theres something amiss. Personally I believe CCP leaves these problems so that people must train the flavour of the month, whatever the race is, just to keep people training, because people would realise how limited the game can be if you don't need to cross train. I will naturally restate that projectile weapons need a boost, not a huge one but there are things that are amiss, and falloff giving modules are one of the problems.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Home 0f Bored Occultists	Posted - 2008.11.27 10:19:00 - [16] Originally by: Typhado3 caldari have capless weapons and raven has as many utility slots as the tempest, scorp has 6 utility slots like the domi (which is imo the most flexible ship). While minmatar are the best tacklers with ships like the rapier in a lot of cases any ship with a point will do and there will be no difference. Also the best of the tacklers the heavy dictors all perform decent with none of them being a clear winner. Yes but caldari capless weapons are not instant damage. Scorp is an EW ship, so what. Domi is versitile but it depends on drones.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Home 0f Bored Occultists	Posted - 2008.11.27 10:23:00 - [17] Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 27/11/2008 10:23:38 Originally by: El'essar Viocragh Before I started playing Eve, Caldari were effectively excluded from BS Fleet warfare outside of the Scorpion because no rail platform existed. The tier 3 battleships were at least partially introduced because of this (that's my understanding at least). When I joined Eve, Apocs were the red headed stepchildren of BS fleets because it simply had too many problems to be viable. The Amarrian players did a good job campaigning for it, and it became a viable, arguably one of the best, sniper BS. I might be wrong, but I think you were part of that campaign too. Now, due to an accumulation of various different changes to the game, the Minmatar BS aren't viable fleet bs anymore. Exactly why should I be consent with that, and not campaign for a change, like the Amarrians did? Now rail platforms do exist. :-) Apoc was given a role because it was outperformed by the geddon in every way. And what exactly has caldari having rail platforms + apoc getting a role to do with minmatar BS getting worse? They are still the same, the tempest can still snipe just fine. No one will say "oh we lost that battle because we had 2 guys in tempests instead of apocs/rokhs" or "you can bring a tempest, it can't snipe anymore". What is the problem? All other races are not making a huge deal about minmatars huge set of solo ships, superior tackling ships and speed. You knew the racial perks of each race and tbh 99% of the whines are only because of people picking the wrong race and trying to shoe horn it into another role.
Seishi Maru Infinity Enterprises Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.27 10:45:00 - [18] Edited by: Seishi Maru on 27/11/2008 10:47:53 I know you are not that stupid to not grasp it. But anyway will make it clearer. With the t2 ammo nerf sniping range of all were reduced. BUt all kept able to reach useful range. Except minmatar ships. Mimatar had alpha strike advantage.. completely neutralized by the 2 HP buffs since inception of snipers. The introduction of rokhs and apocs pushed far far further the range of engagement to a range where minmatar ships re worthless. The introduction of scripts made low slots mroe important to snipe than medium slots . Comapre slot layouts of tempest vs gallente and ammar.... (rokh does not suffer because already has the longest lock range and longest base range, so a single module of each type is enough). Only a blind, or stupid, or troll would not see how minmatr were comparatively NERFED on sniper role since RMR. but i am sure pretty much no one is that stupid, that leaves you to be a troll.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2008.11.27 10:45:00 - [19] I do not see why their should be such huge differences of effectiveness between BS snipers tbh. I understand that their are differances in dmg types and how the dps is attained. ie: minmatar high alpha but slow rof and gallente faster rof but lower alpha, but the range, dps and tracking should all be similar for correctly fitted sniper BS or as we can see some races will not have a worthwhile sniper BS while other will excel at it. Or at the very least they should have other worthwhile uses instead of just being pointless to fly.
Roemy Schneider BINFORD	Posted - 2008.11.27 11:28:00 - [20] boost 1200mm arties i.e. boost their optimals beyond those of 1400mm. keep the lower damage mod (almost 25% after all), tone down the tracking if you must. let that be the arty option/flavor like... this [Tempest, New Setup 1] Reactor Control Unit II Damage Control II 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II 100MN MicroWarpdrive II Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 Sensor Booster II Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range 1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Tremor L 1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Tremor L 1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Tremor L 1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Tremor L 1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Tremor L 1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Tremor L Large Remote Armor Repair System II Large Remote Armor Repair System II Trimark Armor Pump I Trimark Armor Pump I Trimark Armor Pump I shooting roughly as far as this [Apocalypse, New Setup 1] Reactor Control Unit II Power Diagnostic System II 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Internal Force Field Array I Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II 100MN MicroWarpdrive II Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L Large 'Solace' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction Trimark Armor Pump I Trimark Armor Pump I Trimark Armor Pump I - putting the gist back into logistics

Tnam Caldari Mortis Angelus The Church.	Posted - 2008.11.27 11:35:00 - [21] To be honest, I think everyone just snipes from too far away. I don't agree that 1200 arties should be changed much because I think they have a role in different situations, either on specifically mid range ships or for ratting. Really the main thing is that tracking mods should affect fall-off and optimal, especially now that tracking disruptors do that. If you really want to go for max range just don't fly maelstrom's and tempests, if 200km is the magic number for people then eat a booster....
Typhado3 Minmatar Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.11.27 11:49:00 - [22] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer cut quote stuff for size Now rail platforms do exist. :-) Apoc was given a role because it was outperformed by the geddon in every way. And what exactly has caldari having rail platforms + apoc getting a role to do with minmatar BS getting worse? They are still the same, the tempest can still snipe just fine. No one will say "oh we lost that battle because we had 2 guys in tempests instead of apocs/rokhs" or "you can bring a tempest, it can't snipe anymore". What is the problem? All other races are not making a huge deal about minmatars huge set of solo ships, superior tackling ships and speed. You knew the racial perks of each race and tbh 99% of the whines are only because of people picking the wrong race and trying to shoe horn it into another role. 1. it's been mentioned a few times in this thread already but minmatar where good at sniping once it's less of a case of me choosing the wrong race and more of ccp changing what the races are about. For reference when i started this game the longest sniper bs's where the typhoon and the raven and the tempest's alpha made it one of the best snipers. 2. their are plenty of caldari pilots and gallente bs pilots complaining about not being able to solo. The option of just switching races to the race that fits my style more now is kinda unappealing since they could just get shuffled around changing what their role is. At least ore ships don't get shuffled around all that much =s ccp fix mining agent missions % pls
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Home 0f Bored Occultists	Posted - 2008.11.27 11:58:00 - [23] Originally by: Typhado3 1. it's been mentioned a few times in this thread already but minmatar where good at sniping once it's less of a case of me choosing the wrong race and more of ccp changing what the races are about. For reference when i started this game the longest sniper bs's where the typhoon and the raven and the tempest's alpha made it one of the best snipers. 2. their are plenty of caldari pilots and gallente bs pilots complaining about not being able to solo. The option of just switching races to the race that fits my style more now is kinda unappealing since they could just get shuffled around changing what their role is. At least ore ships don't get shuffled around all that much =s 1. Yeah back then geddons had 8 heatsinks and dominated everything from short to mid range. Do I get to whine that they dont dominate anymore? The general idea of each race is still there. For a long time caldari have been THE fleet race because of EW and long range. Youre talking about 5 years ago. Bit too far back eh? 2. What? Gallente have the best solo ships in eve. I really don't know what you're on about here. ----------------------------------------- [Video] The Cruise
sliver 0xD exiles. The Kadeshi	Posted - 2008.11.27 12:03:00 - [24] size doesn't matter it's how you wield it. anyway the tempest increase dps should be nice. your point of view is only from a solo sniper perspective. in a gang you are always at 150km to 200km. --- Somebody needs a hug!
CrestoftheStars Recreation Of The World	Posted - 2008.11.27 14:10:00 - [25] am i the only one seeing that you have TWICE the volley dmg which is the most importent thing in a sniper ?? (beside having a decend range, which is quite useless since they can just warp to the point they have set up close to you) ___________________________________________ Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of himself without that law is both. For a wounded
lebrata Hedion University	Posted - 2008.11.27 14:19:00 - [26] Originally by: CrestoftheStars am i the only one seeing that you have TWICE the volley dmg which is the most importent thing in a sniper ?? (beside having a decend range, which is quite useless since they can just warp to the point they have set up close to you) Stop posting.
Seishi Maru Infinity Enterprises Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.27 14:33:00 - [27] Originally by: CrestoftheStars am i the only one seeing that you have TWICE the volley dmg which is the most importent thing in a sniper ?? (beside having a decend range, which is quite useless since they can just warp to the point they have set up close to you) Volley damage is irrelevant in large fights where target is insta-popped even by the lowest alpha battleships. Alpha strike is only a very minor advantage. Inferior to range, tracking , DPS and damage over time, its only more important than the also useless "don't need cap to fire" (because in fleet fights you spend not much time firing because or you die of you get stuck reloading ammo for 10 minutes). To alpha strike be useful, the difference would have to be raised a LOT! To something like 50% more base damage (compensated with rof of course) than its now. The make 1200mm long range weapons with smaller damage is also a cool idea, because add variety.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Home 0f Bored Occultists	Posted - 2008.11.27 14:37:00 - [28] Originally by: Seishi Maru To alpha strike be useful, the difference would have to be raised a LOT! To something like 50% more base damage (compensated with rof of course) than its now. You and many are missing the point. Yes it is true that alpha strike would need a huge boost to be noticed on ONE SINGLE ship, yes. What you're forgetting is that if you would put together a fleet of high alpha strikers, that it would be a huge advantage with todays alpha strike even. ----------------------------------------- [Video] The Cruise
Cpt Cosmic	Posted - 2008.11.27 15:09:00 - [29] and now take the tempest into comparision with 1400mm sniper setup =D buff tempest ^^
Murina The Scope	Posted - 2008.11.27 15:45:00 - [30] I remember outbreak had tactics of flyby warpins at extreme range against hostile blobs, they would land way over 200km away with a good sized squad of ships and while aligning back out lock melt a ship with a couple of volleys then warp off, rinse and repeat. And now ships are slower it should be even easier for relatively small squads of 200km snipers to pick off single BS and bc and get away. I had a great time doing it and it was always fun to see the ppl we were shooting screaming in local about sticking around for "fair fights" especially considering we had 20 or so ships and they normally had a few hundred....... POST NERF PVP SKILLS: "shall we engage?" "hmmm how many ships do they have?" "more than us" "lets not bother then" "WOW great job FC!!!!" ".................



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