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manfrog
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2008.11.28 23:11:00 -
[121]
Originally by: TheStarman I'm on sisi right now. Using a rokh, neutrons, a web, light drones, a Tech 2 afterburner, and light drones, and ratting more effectively than ever.
Adapt or die plz. Just because you have missile skills doesn't mean you can't train for a Ferox or Rokh.
a frigit can do lvl 4 missions that is not the problem it is PVP anything can run missions
...........
WoW that way ------->>>>
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Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
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Posted - 2008.11.28 23:13:00 -
[122]
Edited by: Pohbis on 28/11/2008 23:14:55
Originally by: Cambarus Given that the whole idea behind caldari ships is that they're better off in gang/fleet warfare sorta applies here.
There is no such grand idea behind Caldari, Caldari were shoehorned into that box because solo PvP requires midslots for tackle/web/speed and Caldari lack midslots due to their shield tanking.
There's a world of difference between having to sacrifice stacking nerfed damage mods in the lows because of armor tanking, and having to sacrifice tanking slots. A single missing tanking slot can break a setup. A missing damage mod slot is a lot less damaging to a setup, even less so because of diminishing returns on damage mods.
Tackle+EW+Tanking+Speed all in the mids is a nightmare for Caldari. Claiming that a 3rd or 4th damage mod in the lows makes up for that is laughable at best. Ignorant and trolling at worst.
I'm indifferent to the changes really, solo and PVP didn't mix that well with Caldari before QR, and doesn't mix that well after QR. A few ships are capable of it under the right conditions... but that statement was just too absurd not to rain on.
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Irida Mershkov
Gallente El Bastardos EVESpace
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Posted - 2008.11.28 23:25:00 -
[123]
Originally by: TheStarman rokh
You got your Rokh back then?
OP? Learn to adapt you whining little ***got. Missiles are fine, and now have to face reality that turret users have to do every day in PvP.
Think.
The good missile pilots are still wtfpwning, the crap ones are whining that they can't go:
"omg luk LOL iw iped ot that frig in one v0lley i mst b so hardcre!11one***gotry"
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Gamesguy
Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.11.28 23:46:00 -
[124]
Originally by: manfrog
Originally by: TheStarman I'm on sisi right now. Using a rokh, neutrons, a web, light drones, a Tech 2 afterburner, and light drones, and ratting more effectively than ever.
Adapt or die plz. Just because you have missile skills doesn't mean you can't train for a Ferox or Rokh.
a frigit can do lvl 4 missions that is not the problem it is PVP anything can run missions
Explain how Caldari was nerfed in pvp, with detailed arguments please.
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An Anarchyyt
Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.11.28 23:59:00 -
[125]
Originally by: Pohbis Edited by: Pohbis on 28/11/2008 23:20:53
Originally by: Cambarus Given that the whole idea behind caldari ships is that they're better off in gang/fleet warfare sorta applies here.
There is no such grand idea behind Caldari, Caldari were shoehorned into that box because solo PvP requires midslots for tackle/web/speed and Caldari lack midslots due to their shield tanking.
There's a world of difference between having to sacrifice stacking nerfed damage mods in the lows because of armor tanking, and having to sacrifice tanking slots. A single missing tanking slot can break a setup. A missing damage mod slot is a lot less damaging to a setup, even less so because of diminishing returns on damage mods.
Tackle+Tanking+Speed all in the mids is a nightmare for Caldari. Claiming that a 3rd or 4th damage mod in the lows makes up for that is laughable at best. Ignorant and trolling at worst.
I'm indifferent to the changes really, solo and PVP didn't mix that well with Caldari before QR, and doesn't mix that well after QR. A few ships are capable of it under the right conditions... but that statement was just too absurd not to rain on.
It's kinda like how armor tankers have to choose between tank or damage mods.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
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5pinDizzy
Amarr Umpteenth Podding
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Posted - 2008.11.29 00:03:00 -
[126]
Originally by: Karille
Originally by: 5pinDizzy
NO U!!1
Trying to have a discussion here.
Then maybe you should listen to the other side.
What other side?
"Use railguns instead!"?
"Don't use missiles at all!"?
"They are fine because I have stuck 5 target painters on and they work fine!"?
Look at the consensus on the forums.
Everyone agrees Caldari can have some horrible disadvantages in PVP.
Now a long overdue PVE nerf has inevitably translated over to a further PVP nerf.
Not everything they changed is bad but Stealth Bombers were made BROKEN.
So what if they tested it before?
They've got several thousand testing it now. But I guess you're right, CCP tested it, they are perfect and never have bugs and imbalances, especially after 5 years right?
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TheStarman
Caldari Deep Space Ventures
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Posted - 2008.11.29 00:04:00 -
[127]
Originally by: Irida Mershkov
Originally by: TheStarman rokh
You got your Rokh back then?
OP? Learn to adapt you whining little ***got. Missiles are fine, and now have to face reality that turret users have to do every day in PvP.
Think.
The good missile pilots are still wtfpwning, the crap ones are whining that they can't go:
"omg luk LOL iw iped ot that frig in one v0lley i mst b so hardcre!11one***gotry"
I actually logged on to a fitted rokh. It was the day before I lost my last one actually.
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Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
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Posted - 2008.11.29 00:05:00 -
[128]
Edited by: Pohbis on 29/11/2008 00:06:07
Originally by: An Anarchyyt
Originally by: Pohbis Edited by: Pohbis on 28/11/2008 23:20:53
Originally by: Cambarus Given that the whole idea behind caldari ships is that they're better off in gang/fleet warfare sorta applies here.
There is no such grand idea behind Caldari, Caldari were shoehorned into that box because solo PvP requires midslots for tackle/web/speed and Caldari lack midslots due to their shield tanking.
There's a world of difference between having to sacrifice stacking nerfed damage mods in the lows because of armor tanking, and having to sacrifice tanking slots. A single missing tanking slot can break a setup. A missing damage mod slot is a lot less damaging to a setup, even less so because of diminishing returns on damage mods.
Tackle+Tanking+Speed all in the mids is a nightmare for Caldari. Claiming that a 3rd or 4th damage mod in the lows makes up for that is laughable at best. Ignorant and trolling at worst.
I'm indifferent to the changes really, solo and PVP didn't mix that well with Caldari before QR, and doesn't mix that well after QR. A few ships are capable of it under the right conditions... but that statement was just too absurd not to rain on.
It's kinda like how armor tankers have to choose between tank or damage mods.
[Post] . . [Your head]
There, bolded the part your should try and comprehend.
If you want to skim and post a one-liner, please make it funny, or at least relevant.
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An Anarchyyt
Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.11.29 00:07:00 -
[129]
Edited by: An Anarchyyt on 29/11/2008 00:08:57
Originally by: Pohbis
Originally by: An Anarchyyt
Originally by: Pohbis Edited by: Pohbis on 28/11/2008 23:20:53
Originally by: Cambarus Given that the whole idea behind caldari ships is that they're better off in gang/fleet warfare sorta applies here.
There is no such grand idea behind Caldari, Caldari were shoehorned into that box because solo PvP requires midslots for tackle/web/speed and Caldari lack midslots due to their shield tanking.
There's a world of difference between having to sacrifice stacking nerfed damage mods in the lows because of armor tanking, and having to sacrifice tanking slots. A single missing tanking slot can break a setup. A missing damage mod slot is a lot less damaging to a setup, even less so because of diminishing returns on damage mods.
Tackle+Tanking+Speed all in the mids is a nightmare for Caldari. Claiming that a 3rd or 4th damage mod in the lows makes up for that is laughable at best. Ignorant and trolling at worst.
I'm indifferent to the changes really, solo and PVP didn't mix that well with Caldari before QR, and doesn't mix that well after QR. A few ships are capable of it under the right conditions... but that statement was just too absurd not to rain on.
It's kinda like how armor tankers have to choose between tank or damage mods.
[Post] . . [Your head]
There, bolded the part your should try and comprehend.
If you want to skim and post a one-liner, please make it funny, or at least relevant.
That's because your post is incredibly stupid. How about you learn how to make a ship where one module doesn't make or break your entire ship?
Now, since apparently you are too stupid to actually understand, I'm gonna put it in one sentence for you:
All the tackling and tanking in the world won't help you if you can't put out the DPS to kill what you're fighting. What are you going to do? Bore him to death until he Ctrl+Qs while scrammed and all his modules turn off?
Perhaps next you should follow up with a whine about how capitals can't use gates, or there are no bubbles in empire.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
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Faife
Noctiscion
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Posted - 2008.11.29 00:10:00 -
[130]
Originally by: Zivoril Remember those who say all is fine are a Minority!
Those WHO say Missles were destroyed are a MAJORITY!
just another part of the 'minority' that thinks missiles are better now
o/ --
i am a humble and inefficient ammo to dps converter |
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Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
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Posted - 2008.11.29 00:14:00 -
[131]
Edited by: Pohbis on 29/11/2008 00:14:03
Originally by: An Anarchyyt All the tackling and tanking in the world won't help you if you can't put out the DPS to kill what you're fighting.
Yeah, a bit of insults and a naive comeback. Doing your ticker proud.
Have fun bringing down the hurt in your +10% dmg ship while your target can web and scram you, or, decide to disengage at will.
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An Anarchyyt
Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.11.29 00:16:00 -
[132]
Originally by: Pohbis Edited by: Pohbis on 29/11/2008 00:14:03
Originally by: An Anarchyyt All the tackling and tanking in the world won't help you if you can't put out the DPS to kill what you're fighting.
Yeah, a bit of insults and a naive comeback. Doing your ticker proud.
Have fun bringing down the hurt in your +10% dmg ship while your target can web and scram you, or, decide to disengage at will.
Everyone knows Goons can't win a fight, in fact, just the other day all our ships were destroyed, being picked off by the enemy at will, while we killed no more than a single cruiser.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
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Gorefacer
Caldari Resurrection Skunk-Works
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Posted - 2008.11.29 01:14:00 -
[133]
Originally by: manfrog
Originally by: Gorefacer
Originally by: Core Researcher Someone really needs to go to the killboards and check all these pilots that claim to be missile pilots out, lots and lots of BS itt.
Missiles are broken.
http://killboard.rez-corp.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=11797
http://killboard.rez-corp.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=11799
http://killboard.rez-corp.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=11793
http://killboard.rez-corp.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=11792
http://killboard.rez-corp.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=11790
http://killboard.rez-corp.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=11742
http://killboard.rez-corp.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=11723
http://killboard.rez-corp.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=11719
http://killboard.rez-corp.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=11724
http://killboard.rez-corp.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=11732
Just a small collection of post patch KMs from a Raven pilot.
I've been slacking and haven't PVPed as much as I'd have liked - I'm sure there are plenty out there with much much more.
As Gypsio said - needed the target webbed and painted before - still do after QR patch. Still doing damage like I have since the torp buff.
Also I can't tell if the OP is a troll or if he just is ignorant of the basic workings of this game. Guess that makes it a good troll if it is one.
lol I have plenty of KM's too but take that raven to a 1 vs 1 have fun... tip don't use what you can't replace :)
heck watch 2 intys take you down in 10 min while you sit there un able to do any damage watching your torps just chase em around lol to funny
My Ravens cost about as much to replace as a stealth bomber. I can and do replace them all the time.
I don't 1 vs 1 in my Raven and didn't before QR patch either.
Inty's may be able to do that if they catch me solo, although last time I did get caught by one 1 on 1. I heavy neuted him and hit him with 5x warrior IIs. He warped off and I continued on my way.
I don't fly the Raven with torps to kill intys.
"You can't reason someone out of a belief they haven't reasoned themselves into" - Prometheus |
Armoured C
Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2008.11.29 02:40:00 -
[134]
wait is the op still blabbering on
if you dont like it dont get hit by the nightelf on the way out !!!!
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Elise Randolph
Slacker Industries
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Posted - 2008.11.29 02:41:00 -
[135]
It's me, I'm the Drake in the OP. ----------
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Montross 0
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Posted - 2008.11.29 02:44:00 -
[136]
Lol. Fail.
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scorp3
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Posted - 2008.11.29 03:52:00 -
[137]
I have one question to the large gun users...Rails ect. Are you guys still insta popping frigs in missions.
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D'ceet
Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2008.11.29 04:18:00 -
[138]
the only bad thing is i have to use more missiles to kill rats. not a big deal tbh.
Originally by: Popperr
I resent the insinuation that we have intelligence, artificial or otherwise.
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Y Berion
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.11.29 05:33:00 -
[139]
Originally by: Armoured C payback is a biatch , enjoy your nano nerf you lazy caldari scumbags
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ShadowGod56
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Posted - 2008.11.29 05:56:00 -
[140]
the OP isn't even Caldari and he try to be our voice
GTFO you tweeker
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Shogun Archer
Gallente Brotherhood of Soban
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Posted - 2008.11.29 06:11:00 -
[141]
Edited by: Shogun Archer on 29/11/2008 06:12:17 OP reminds me of this guy. Mr. Furious... He's a super hero that gets ANGRY, then nothing happens.
Linkage
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Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service
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Posted - 2008.11.29 06:59:00 -
[142]
Originally by: Pohbis
Originally by: Cambarus ...
There is no such grand idea behind Caldari, Caldari were shoehorned into that box because solo PvP requires midslots for tackle/web/speed and Caldari lack midslots due to their shield tanking.
Tackle+Tanking+Speed all in the mids is a nightmare for Caldari. Claiming that a 3rd or 4th damage mod in the lows makes up for that is laughable at best. Ignorant and trolling at worst.
I'm indifferent to the changes really, solo and PVP didn't mix that well with Caldari before QR, and doesn't mix that well after QR. A few ships are capable of it under the right conditions... but that statement was just too absurd not to rain on.
Caldari were "shoehorned" into that position because most of their ships perform well at what they do, but lack the versatility needed to gank,tank and tackle at the same time. It's most definitely a fair tradeoff, and giving caldari the ability to tackle and tank would make them immensely overpowered.
Some examples (I'll only mention missiles here): Raven: Puts out equal DPS to a megathron, at greater range with an equal buffer, AND it has utility slots, but it needs a buddy to tackle. ONOES!
Rook/falcon: Neither of these ships have ANY solo-pvp viability. That means they're useless, right? Right?
TBH I'm not familiar enough with the cerb to comment on it, in solo or small gang pvp.
Quote:
Tackle+Tanking+Speed all in the mids is a nightmare for Caldari. Claiming that a 3rd or 4th damage mod in the lows makes up for that is laughable at best. Ignorant and trolling at worst.
Tackle+tanking+speed is not what caldari ships are built to do. Don't believe me? The proof is in the freaking slot layouts. The role you say caldari ships got forced into by the players I say was the design philosophy of the devs, and while there are certain aspects of caldari that I would like to see buffed, that most certainly does NOT mean that caldari should be made into a clone of gallente/amarr/matari. You want to rally for something? Bug CCP to up the damage of HAMs and rockets to blaster levels, equal DPS at greater ranges but the need for someone else to tackle sounds awesome to me. And as for one or 2 extra damage mods making a big difference goes, when a ship is built with the glass cannon philosophy it DOES make a difference, especially for ships like the deimos and astarte.
And while I'm on that subject: Fix Blasters. You wanna whine about a whole weapon system being broken? ALL of the gallente blaster boats are in dire need of some loving. After the speed nerf the glass cannons that are the deimos, astarte and even the megathron took HUGE hits in their effectiveness. You know why so few are complaining? Because the nerf doesn't show up as a number on eft. Navy mega STILL costs less then the CNR (though the price gap has closed a bit). Why do you think that is? QQ Caldari missile whiners, this is the first real nerf you've felt in years. The Gallente have been dealing with several severe nerfs for almost 2 years now, and the amarr before that. The minmatar have been dealing with nerfs this whole time and you don't see them complain nearly as much
If missiles in their current state bother you that much, train something else (putting all of your eggs in one basket is bad mmkay?), and if the thought of training something else bothers you that much, quit. Will missiles get buffed? Yes, eventually. Until then either learn to use missiles the way they're currently intended to be used (with friends) or use something else.
Gah now I've gone off and spent the last god knows how long ranting I'm going to bed, there are several reasons for which I might be inclined to stay up past 2 in the morning, but arguing with people over the internet most certainly is not one of them. |
Vikarion
Caldari White Rose Society
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Posted - 2008.11.29 07:23:00 -
[143]
Originally by: ShadowGod56 the OP isn't even Caldari and he try to be our voice
GTFO you tweeker
Well, I am Caldari, and some of the missile classes do suck for PvP. But that's ok, I trained lasers!
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SSgt Sniper
Gallente MAIDS
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Posted - 2008.11.29 07:40:00 -
[144]
it's probably been said to death at this point but:
When you're flying a ship with turret bonuses, shouldn't you you know, use turrets? ------- CEO of Maids. No I didn't pick the name. I've grown rather fond of it though.Poor PR in progress!
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Vikarion
Caldari White Rose Society
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Posted - 2008.11.29 07:42:00 -
[145]
Originally by: SSgt Sniper it's probably been said to death at this point but:
When you're flying a ship with turret bonuses, shouldn't you you know, use turrets?
Yes.
Of course, some ships have no bonuses to turret OR missiles. Not that that's really relevant.
Oh, and sometimes the drawbacks of the weapon the ship is meant for make using a different system better.
There are caveats to everything, I guess.
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Senmia
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.11.29 07:49:00 -
[146]
Originally by: scorp3 I have one question to the large gun users...Rails ect. Are you guys still insta popping frigs in missions.
Yes. Sometimes. When their transversal is low enough.
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Vikarion
Caldari White Rose Society
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Posted - 2008.11.29 07:53:00 -
[147]
Originally by: Senmia
Originally by: scorp3 I have one question to the large gun users...Rails ect. Are you guys still insta popping frigs in missions.
Yes. Sometimes. When their transversal is low enough.
As a laser guy, the answer is an unqualified "yes".
Train laserz!
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manfrog
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2008.11.29 08:04:00 -
[148]
Edited by: manfrog on 29/11/2008 08:14:56 Edited by: manfrog on 29/11/2008 08:14:10 07:59:59 Combat Your Juggernaut Javelin Torpedo hits Riffter , doing 4.9 damage.
oh what a joke this is
20 * 6 120 torps and never hit armor what a joke and I had not rist mods on just a civ shild booster
a rail boat would have insta poped it for sure
lol
...........
WoW that way ------->>>>
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Furb Killer
Gallente Paxton Industries Paxton Federation
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Posted - 2008.11.29 08:27:00 -
[149]
A railboat can instapop frigs which are far away. Close range they will do 0.0 damage to frigs. If they arent moving like 90% of the raven pilots, they also will do barely dps to orbitting cruisers. ---------------------------------------------
Originally by: Neth'Rae Military experts are calling this a troll.
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Sonisha
Minmatar Immortal Kings
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Posted - 2008.11.29 14:45:00 -
[150]
Basically, Adapt. When minmatar guns were nerfed beyond use, changed to lasers, and hybrids. When missiles were good, trained up all missiles. Learn to use others, that way you Always have another choice. Simple.
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