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LVL4 does not need a nerf, 0.0 needs a nerf

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TheEndofTheWorld Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.11.30 10:22:00 - [1] You can read a lot about 0.0 players complaining about lvl4 being too rewarding, with no real risk. But... When do you really die when ratting in 0.0? 1) when you are new 2) when you are afk in belt 3) when you are too confident Experienced 0.0 ratters die rarely if ever at all. ... mission runners die for the same reason. 0.0 has better rewards than highsec lvl4s, yet similar risk levels. either nerf 0.0 reward or make it riskier to rat in 0.0
techzer0 IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.11.30 10:23:00 - [2] Edited by: techzer0 on 30/11/2008 10:23:57 First Edit: And to keep the mods happy by not one word posting... OP fails. Hard. ------------ Originally by: Nexus Kinnon I could outgay you even without my pink tutu. >.>
Misanth RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE Black Legion.	Posted - 2008.11.30 10:23:00 - [3] Buff lowsec ratting, keep missioning in high/low/nullsec as it is, keep 0.0 as it is. Ta~da.
Karille Gallente Lordless	Posted - 2008.11.30 10:24:00 - [4] 2/10 For effort
Sonorra Baki Interstellar eXodus Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.30 10:25:00 - [5] failtroll fail This may not be work safe -Capsicum
techzer0 IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.11.30 10:25:00 - [6] Originally by: Misanth Buff lowsec ratting, keep missioning in high/low/nullsec as it is, keep 0.0 as it is. Ta~da. To be honest this would be wonderful... and give me something to do while waiting out my Global Criminal count.. ------------ Originally by: Nexus Kinnon I could outgay you even without my pink tutu. >.>
Misanth RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE Black Legion.	Posted - 2008.11.30 10:26:00 - [7] Originally by: Karille 2/10 For effort Meh, he's right you know, plus it's not aggravating what he's typing. If it's a troll, he's not very bright tbh. It IS impossible to lose ratting ships unless you're stupid or suck, and 0.0-ratting (in decent areas) pays alot better than high-sec missioning. And ofc, low- and nullsec missioning pays alot better. If he wants to troll he should at least put in something that isn't true and makes people argue about it.
Andres Talas	Posted - 2008.11.30 10:27:00 - [8] Originally by: TheEndofTheWorld You can read a lot about 0.0 players complaining about lvl4 being too rewarding, with no real risk. But... When do you really die when ratting in 0.0? 1) when you are new 2) when you are afk in belt 3) when you are too confident Experienced 0.0 ratters die rarely if ever at all. ... mission runners die for the same reason. 0.0 has better rewards than highsec lvl4s, yet similar risk levels. either nerf 0.0 reward or make it riskier to rat in 0.0 4. When you get warpjammed and a real-life neut starts wandering around the car park of your apartment. But yeah. I'm ratting in 0.0 in a T1.5 Vexor running tier 2 drones, then salvaging in a frigate. I should train up for BCs, but why bother ?
TheEndofTheWorld Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.11.30 10:28:00 - [9] Edited by: TheEndofTheWorld on 30/11/2008 10:29:41 Originally by: Sonorra Baki failtroll fail This is not a troll. Come on, this is serious, because 0.0 ratting is very safe thanks to local. YOU CANNOT KILL A 0.0 NPCER/MINER/COMPLEXER ETC IF HE IS WATCHING THE LOCAL CHANNEL. That is a problem and needs to be fixed. 0.0ers can whine about risk vs reward of lvl4s all day long, but they keep forgetting to ask themselves the question: how risky is it really for me to rat in 0.0?
Karille Gallente Lordless	Posted - 2008.11.30 10:30:00 - [10] Originally by: Misanth Originally by: Karille 2/10 For effort Meh, he's right you know, plus it's not aggravating what he's typing. If it's a troll, he's not very bright tbh. It IS impossible to lose ratting ships unless you're stupid or suck, and 0.0-ratting (in decent areas) pays alot better than high-sec missioning. And ofc, low- and nullsec missioning pays alot better. If he wants to troll he should at least put in something that isn't true and makes people argue about it. In 0.0 There is a higher probability of being attacked by a player, and you have to move the loot to empire to sell it. There are simple ways to mitigate both of these, but hiding leads to downtime and jump bridging or cynoing adds overhead cost. Since his post fails to account for this it is in fact a troll.
ShardowRhino Caldari Legion 0f The Damned	Posted - 2008.11.30 10:32:00 - [11] Originally by: Misanth Buff lowsec ratting, keep missioning in high/low/nullsec as it is, keep 0.0 as it is. Ta~da. this man speaks the truth. I know because its something ive mentioned several times. seriously if people want a real challenge when they are ratting, go rat in low sec. tons of people looking for easy targets. at the same time you can pick off npcs worth jack. most 0.0 ratters get popped because they were lazy or new and weren't sure where most hostiles will hit and what systems are generally to deep for them. 5+ jumps behind the front line + intel channels+ local = only idiots are going to get popped. what the morons that are whining about L4s should be doing is inviting the carebears to join FW. the reason people want l4s nerfed is to try and force players to join alliances they wouldn't want to join otherwise.kinda sad if you think about having to pull carebears kicking and screaming to join you. get the pvers to pvp once in a while and get a taste of the rest of eve has to offer. give them a reason to spend some of that isk. trying to get l4s nerfed is in no way going to get them to go out to 0.0. instead they will settle for the next most profitiable thing they can do in safety.
techzer0 IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.11.30 10:33:00 - [12] Originally by: TheEndofTheWorld YOU CANNOT KILL A 0.0 NPCER/MINER/COMPLEXER ETC IF HE IS WATCHING THE LOCAL CHANNEL. That is a problem and needs to be fixed. AFK cloak an alt in the ratters system 23/7. Risk and no reward... Show me a highsec mission hub that has that without mass wardecs. ------------ Originally by: Nexus Kinnon I could outgay you even without my pink tutu. >.>
TheEndofTheWorld Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.11.30 10:35:00 - [13] Originally by: Karille Originally by: Misanth Originally by: Karille 2/10 For effort Meh, he's right you know, plus it's not aggravating what he's typing. If it's a troll, he's not very bright tbh. It IS impossible to lose ratting ships unless you're stupid or suck, and 0.0-ratting (in decent areas) pays alot better than high-sec missioning. And ofc, low- and nullsec missioning pays alot better. If he wants to troll he should at least put in something that isn't true and makes people argue about it. In 0.0 There is a higher probability of being attacked by a player, and you have to move the loot to empire to sell it. There are simple ways to mitigate both of these, but hiding leads to downtime and jump bridging or cynoing adds overhead cost. Since his post fails to account for this it is in fact a troll. You do not get attacked in 0.0 unwillingly, if you have any idea what you are doing. That is the main problem, it ruins the risk vs reward of 0.0 1) Yes, roaming gangs to lower the ISK/h ratio, but not that badly, no more than -10% on a bad day. 2) Capital jumping/transporting loot is very very cheap.
Misanth RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE Black Legion.	Posted - 2008.11.30 10:35:00 - [14] Originally by: Karille In 0.0 There is a higher probability of being attacked by a player, and you have to move the loot to empire to sell it. There are simple ways to mitigate both of these, but hiding leads to downtime and jump bridging or cynoing adds overhead cost. Since his post fails to account for this it is in fact a troll. There's alot more variables than that, and should he post all of it, it'd be a massive wall of text and noone would read it. Another dimension is this; Originally by: techzer0 Originally by: TheEndofTheWorld YOU CANNOT KILL A 0.0 NPCER/MINER/COMPLEXER ETC IF HE IS WATCHING THE LOCAL CHANNEL. That is a problem and needs to be fixed. AFK cloak an alt in the ratters system 23/7. Risk and no reward... Show me a highsec mission hub that has that without mass wardecs. /sign
Kalintos Tyl Minmatar	Posted - 2008.11.30 10:37:00 - [15] motsu caldari raven achurs in state war academy are disagring Quote: It's not a good idea to place a Exotic Dancers in a Giant Secure Container. The Exotic Dancers will not survive intact, if transported in such a container.
TheEndofTheWorld Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.11.30 10:37:00 - [16] Originally by: techzer0 Originally by: TheEndofTheWorld YOU CANNOT KILL A 0.0 NPCER/MINER/COMPLEXER ETC IF HE IS WATCHING THE LOCAL CHANNEL. That is a problem and needs to be fixed. AFK cloak an alt in the ratters system 23/7. Risk and no reward... Show me a highsec mission hub that has that without mass wardecs. Does not work, any half-decent alliance can do a 1) very decent trap 2) move to the next system
Norwood Franskly Minmatar Fleet of the Damned Dark Trinity Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.30 10:40:00 - [17] give me loyalty points for ratting...
techzer0 IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.11.30 10:44:00 - [18] Originally by: TheEndofTheWorld Originally by: techzer0 Originally by: TheEndofTheWorld YOU CANNOT KILL A 0.0 NPCER/MINER/COMPLEXER ETC IF HE IS WATCHING THE LOCAL CHANNEL. That is a problem and needs to be fixed. AFK cloak an alt in the ratters system 23/7. Risk and no reward... Show me a highsec mission hub that has that without mass wardecs. Does not work, any half-decent alliance can do a 1) very decent trap 2) move to the next system Yes, but it affects the solo players ratting in 0.0, of which a majority of highsec mission runners are solo players. I agree there is not much more risk/reward in either... but you're doing it wrong. ------------ Originally by: Nexus Kinnon I could outgay you even without my pink tutu. >.>
Holy Lowlander Comply Or Die G00DFELLAS	Posted - 2008.11.30 10:47:00 - [19] lol this troll is fail. and if it isn't a troll : do empire carebears have to fight for their space ? NO. do empire carebears have to watch local all the time ? NO. do empire carebears have to bother with intel channels ? NO. do empire carebears lose alot of isk ? NO , only costs they have is on ammo. 0.0 ratting is suposed to be better as highsec missionrunning , because 0.0 life is way more expensive , so either stop stop posting or try something before you say anything about it .
TheEndofTheWorld Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.11.30 11:36:00 - [20] Edited by: TheEndofTheWorld on 30/11/2008 11:37:07 Originally by: Holy Lowlander do empire carebears have to fight for their space ? NO. do empire carebears have to watch local all the time ? NO. do empire carebears have to bother with intel channels ? NO. do empire carebears lose alot of isk ? NO , only costs they have is on ammo. 0.0 ratting is suposed to be better as highsec missionrunning , because 0.0 life is way more expensive , so either stop stop posting or try something before you say anything about it . 1. EVE 0.0 politics are fairly stagnant. I mean, goons have been where they are for 2 years, bob 3-4 years, NC 3-4 years? And in the end losing space is usually means you get to keep most of your assets, and rejoin/form as a new ally of another alliance in a different part of 0.0 and start again with no major financial losses. 2. Watching local is hard??? You don't even have to pay attention, you just have to leave local chat open and SS/POS the first moment you see a non-friendly. 3. Local will do good enough, if you aren't bothered to check intel channels, besides you can always be on alliance/corp TS, where they report hostiles and the like. 4. a lot of isk? most of the assets cannot be lost and there is no reasonable amount non-consensual pvp in 0.0 anymore. You can always dock up, cloak up, blob up and fight on CAOD now days. And this topic is about something else, the risk & reward imbalance of 0.0. 0.0 is simply carebearland with a different name, and those 0.0 carebears some why think they are so much better than carebears in highsec.
Durty Nell Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.11.30 11:41:00 - [21] Originally by: Karille Originally by: Misanth Originally by: Karille 2/10 For effort In 0.0 There is a higher probability of being attacked by a player, and you have to move the loot to empire to sell it. There are simple ways to mitigate both of these, but hiding leads to downtime and jump bridging or cynoing adds overhead cost. Since his post fails to account for this it is in fact a troll. YouÆre either not very smart or youÆre trolling the OP. First of all what you say has a degree of truth in it but it is not the complete picture. There is no need to do any of the things you suggest are necessity. There is plenty of 0.0 NPC space to base out of, where anyone can mine, rat, produce and play the market. In fact many including myself have done so, very successfully for a long time. Originally by: Norwood Franskly give me loyalty points for ratting... Give the OP faction/officer lewt worth billionsà Originally by: Holy Lowlander lol this troll is fail. and if it isn't a troll : do empire carebears have to fight for their space ? NO. do empire carebears have to watch local all the time ? NO. do empire carebears have to bother with intel channels ? NO. do empire carebears lose alot of isk ? NO , only costs they have is on ammo. ratting is suposed to be better as highsec missionrunning , because 0.0 life is way more expensive , so either stop stop posting or try something before you say anything about it . You only have to fight for the space if youÆre leaders can convince you that their high end moons are worth your time and effort to control. To questions 2 and 3. I would answer yes and no depending on wither NPCÆer is in a WardecÆd corp or not. Finally the NPCÆer has about the same chance of loosing lots of ISK as a 0.0 dweller has. If they are stupid that must be expected, if not then it pretty much evens out. The OP has a point but of course itÆs a different story when we 0.0 PvPÆers are called out. We see posts like these calling the messenger a troll. ------
KhaniKirai	Posted - 2008.11.30 11:46:00 - [22] Originally by: TheEndofTheWorld You can read a lot about 0.0 players complaining about lvl4 being too rewarding, with no real risk. But... When do you really die when ratting in 0.0? 1) when you are new 2) when you are afk in belt 3) when you are too confident Experienced 0.0 ratters die rarely if ever at all. ... mission runners die for the same reason. 0.0 has better rewards than highsec lvl4s, yet similar risk levels. either nerf 0.0 reward or make it riskier to rat in 0.0 You can read a lot about lvl 4 mission players complaining about 0.0 being too rewarding, with no real risk. But... When do you really die when doing lvl 4 missions? 1) when you are new 2) when you are afk in the mission 3) when you are too confident Experienced lvl 4 missionplayers die rarely if ever at all. ... 0.0 belt runners die for the same reason. lvl 4 has EASIER rewards than 0.0, yet WAY LOWER risk levels. (Beside, what silly lvl 4 missioneers forget is: in 0.0 you dont have time for ratting that often. You have to get your isk to replace ships or invest in new ones, between the call to arms and defence or attack ops.) either nerf lvl 4 reward or make it more worthwhile to rat in 0.0
Typhado3 Minmatar Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.11.30 11:55:00 - [23] ... it's dt overwise I wouldn't respond to the troll 1. 0.0 you can't rat while hostiles in system (unless you like dieing), it's pretty hard to catch nano's or cloaked ships and anyone with a cloak can sneak into system and log off then log back on later to kill ratters so these guys are all over the place and there is nothing practical you can do to stop them. 2. there is limited number of belts in 0.0, you can squeeze as many mission runners onto a single agent as you want. 3. 0.0 you have to fight for you space which takes up time and isk. though a day of ratting can be more proffitable than a day of missioning the next day where you have to spend pvp'ign to keep your space kind screws your profit. If you aren't fighting for your space your either in crap space where your profit is ** or your a parasite in your alliance and if you aren't in an alliance you will lose your pos when you get jumped and **d by the local big boys. 4. the market in 0.0 is much more expensive and the stations (if you are lucky enough to have one) are much further apart. ccp fix mining agent missions % pls
Cairn Metalhand Swedish Aerospace Inc G00DFELLAS	Posted - 2008.11.30 11:58:00 - [24] Originally by: TheEndofTheWorld You can read a lot about 0.0 players complaining about lvl4 being too rewarding, with no real risk. But... When do you really die when ratting in 0.0? 1) when you are new 2) when you are afk in belt 3) when you are too confident Experienced 0.0 ratters die rarely if ever at all. ... mission runners die for the same reason. 0.0 has better rewards than highsec lvl4s, yet similar risk levels. either nerf 0.0 reward or make it riskier to rat in 0.0 So, if you take your CNR while in a noob corp and go to, ie, venal for some ratting, the chance of you dying is the same as if you go to Motsu for some lvl 4 missions?
Durty Nell Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.11.30 12:17:00 - [25] Originally by: Cairn Metalhand Originally by: TheEndofTheWorld So, if you take your CNR while in a noob corp and go to, ie, venal for some ratting, the chance of you dying is the same as if you go to Motsu for some lvl 4 missions? There is exactly the same odds on loosing a CNR in æinsert 0.0 NPC regionÆ as there is in a lvl 4 mission hub in high sec unless the pilot in high sec is in an NPC corp. If the pilot is in an NPC corp they run the risk of the suicide gank which incidentally isnÆt a problem in 0.0, ergo >> if someone else is in local, '0.0', the pilot may loose CNR. ThereÆs a bit of a difference when you think about it. There is no way the pilot can avoid the suicide gank in high sec, where as in 0.0 the pilot has the chance to escape as soon as they see local pop. Your move! ------
Calprimus Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.11.30 12:21:00 - [26] Originally by: ShardowRhino Originally by: Misanth Buff lowsec ratting, keep missioning in high/low/nullsec as it is, keep 0.0 as it is. Ta~da. this man speaks the truth. I know because its something ive mentioned several times. seriously if people want a real challenge when they are ratting, go rat in low sec. tons of people looking for easy targets. at the same time you can pick off npcs worth jack. most 0.0 ratters get popped because they were lazy or new and weren't sure where most hostiles will hit and what systems are generally to deep for them. 5+ jumps behind the front line + intel channels+ local = only idiots are going to get popped. what the morons that are whining about L4s should be doing is inviting the carebears to join FW. the reason people want l4s nerfed is to try and force players to join alliances they wouldn't want to join otherwise.kinda sad if you think about having to pull carebears kicking and screaming to join you. get the pvers to pvp once in a while and get a taste of the rest of eve has to offer. give them a reason to spend some of that isk. trying to get l4s nerfed is in no way going to get them to go out to 0.0. instead they will settle for the next most profitiable thing they can do in safety. /thread
Karentaki Gallente Fighting While Intoxicated Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.11.30 12:31:00 - [27] Stupid troll, but I'm going to bite anyway just in case this guy is for real. Originally by: TheEndofTheWorld You do not get attacked in 0.0 unwillingly, if you have any idea what you are doing. That is the main problem, it ruins the risk vs reward of 0.0 How about risk vs reward for L4 missions? ANYONE (even braindead people) can run L4 missions and not die. The fact that it takes more than 10 braincells and 2 fingers to rat safely in 0.0 proves that they are more dangerous. Also, your basic premise is wrong - you do NOT get more ISK ratting in 0.0 than you make running L4 missions, since you have to take into account the 'downtime' due to reds, empty belts, wars, logistics, and everything else needed to run a successful alliance. This argument is like comparing apples and oranges - they are two completely different aspects of the game, and while one can be done by any braindead sheep, the other takes at least a few people with some brains to make it work. Quote: EVE is like a sandbox with landmines. Deal with it.
TheEndofTheWorld Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.11.30 12:39:00 - [28] Originally by: Cairn Metalhand So, if you take your CNR while in a noob corp and go to, ie, venal for some ratting, the chance of you dying is the same as if you go to Motsu for some lvl 4 missions? Besides putting in a little extra effort to get there (aka shuttle scout alt), yes. But this thread is more directed at 0.0 alliances who have everything handed to them on a silver plate. Originally by: Typhado3 ... it's dt overwise I wouldn't respond to the troll 1. 0.0 you can't rat while hostiles in system (unless you like dieing), it's pretty hard to catch nano's or cloaked ships and anyone with a cloak can sneak into system and log off then log back on later to kill ratters so these guys are all over the place and there is nothing practical you can do to stop them. 2. there is limited number of belts in 0.0, you can squeeze as many mission runners onto a single agent as you want. 3. 0.0 you have to fight for you space which takes up time and isk. though a day of ratting can be more proffitable than a day of missioning the next day where you have to spend pvp'ign to keep your space kind screws your profit. If you aren't fighting for your space your either in crap space where your profit is ** or your a parasite in your alliance and if you aren't in an alliance you will lose your pos when you get jumped and **d by the local big boys. 4. the market in 0.0 is much more expensive and the stations (if you are lucky enough to have one) are much further apart. 1. change systems, make a trap, very easy. Also, the reverse also applies, those roaming gangs cannot catch the 0.0 carebears, and it has come to the point where there is almost no player side threat for 0.0 carebearing. 2. add in mining, moon mining, exploration... 3. again, most of the alliances get by with little to no fighting at all, and on top of that, losing space generally has very little financial consequences. Defense mechanisms have been made faar to strong, and losing stations does not destroy all of your poses/assets etc. 4. Capital hauling....
Esmenet Gallente	Posted - 2008.11.30 13:00:00 - [29] Lol try living in 0.0 once "Theendoftheworld".
Megamina Delta-Fr	Posted - 2008.11.30 13:52:00 - [30] Yet the OP has forgotten the very basic idea behind higher rewards in 0.0.. CCP wants you to go t0.0, to fight, to pvp for you dear -1.xx nber ratting system... Don't forget Eve is a pvp focused game, not a carebear pve game. When you'll understand this simple basic fact then you would stop whining for nothing... Besides of that, your arguments are pure fail since it doesn't take into consideration the obvious fact you must reach the 0.0 ratting system and fight for it if necessary. Moreover, who in game loses the most ships ? the miners ? no ; the pve player ? no again... the 0.0 based alliance are the most prolific when it comes to lost ships and to carry on those huge battles with hundreds of kills in one night you need a good income...

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