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TheEndofTheWorld
Republic Military School
   |
Posted - 2008.11.30 10:22:00 -
[1]
You can read a lot about 0.0 players complaining about lvl4 being too rewarding, with no real risk.
But...
When do you really die when ratting in 0.0?
1) when you are new
2) when you are afk in belt
3) when you are too confident
Experienced 0.0 ratters die rarely if ever at all.
... mission runners die for the same reason.
0.0 has better rewards than highsec lvl4s, yet similar risk levels.
either nerf 0.0 reward or make it riskier to rat in 0.0
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techzer0
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2008.11.30 10:23:00 -
[2]
Edited by: techzer0 on 30/11/2008 10:23:57
First
Edit: And to keep the mods happy by not one word posting... OP fails. Hard.
------------
 Originally by: Nexus Kinnon
I could outgay you even without my pink tutu. >.>
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Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
Black Legion.
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Posted - 2008.11.30 10:23:00 -
[3]
Buff lowsec ratting, keep missioning in high/low/nullsec as it is, keep 0.0 as it is.
Ta~da.
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Karille
Gallente
Lordless
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Posted - 2008.11.30 10:24:00 -
[4]
2/10 For effort
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Sonorra Baki
Interstellar eXodus
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.30 10:25:00 -
[5]
failtroll fail
This may not be work safe  -Capsicum |
techzer0
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2008.11.30 10:25:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Misanth
Buff lowsec ratting, keep missioning in high/low/nullsec as it is, keep 0.0 as it is.
Ta~da.
To be honest this would be wonderful... and give me something to do while waiting out my Global Criminal count..
------------
Originally by: Nexus Kinnon
I could outgay you even without my pink tutu. >.>
|
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
Black Legion.
|
Posted - 2008.11.30 10:26:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Karille
2/10 For effort
Meh, he's right you know, plus it's not aggravating what he's typing. If it's a troll, he's not very bright tbh. It IS impossible to lose ratting ships unless you're stupid or suck, and 0.0-ratting (in decent areas) pays alot better than high-sec missioning. And ofc, low- and nullsec missioning pays alot better.
If he wants to troll he should at least put in something that isn't true and makes people argue about it. 
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Andres Talas
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Posted - 2008.11.30 10:27:00 -
[8]
Originally by: TheEndofTheWorld
You can read a lot about 0.0 players complaining about lvl4 being too rewarding, with no real risk.
But...
When do you really die when ratting in 0.0?
1) when you are new
2) when you are afk in belt
3) when you are too confident
Experienced 0.0 ratters die rarely if ever at all.
... mission runners die for the same reason.
0.0 has better rewards than highsec lvl4s, yet similar risk levels.
either nerf 0.0 reward or make it riskier to rat in 0.0
4. When you get warpjammed and a real-life neut starts wandering around the car park of your apartment.
But yeah. I'm ratting in 0.0 in a T1.5 Vexor running tier 2 drones, then salvaging in a frigate. I should train up for BCs, but why bother ?
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TheEndofTheWorld
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.11.30 10:28:00 -
[9]
Edited by: TheEndofTheWorld on 30/11/2008 10:29:41
Originally by: Sonorra Baki
failtroll fail
This is not a troll.
Come on, this is serious, because 0.0 ratting is very safe thanks to local.
YOU CANNOT KILL A 0.0 NPCER/MINER/COMPLEXER ETC IF HE IS WATCHING THE LOCAL CHANNEL. That is a problem and needs to be fixed.
0.0ers can whine about risk vs reward of lvl4s all day long, but they keep forgetting to ask themselves the question: how risky is it really for me to rat in 0.0?
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Karille
Gallente
Lordless
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Posted - 2008.11.30 10:30:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Misanth
Originally by: Karille
2/10 For effort
Meh, he's right you know, plus it's not aggravating what he's typing. If it's a troll, he's not very bright tbh. It IS impossible to lose ratting ships unless you're stupid or suck, and 0.0-ratting (in decent areas) pays alot better than high-sec missioning. And ofc, low- and nullsec missioning pays alot better.
If he wants to troll he should at least put in something that isn't true and makes people argue about it.
In 0.0 There is a higher probability of being attacked by a player, and you have to move the loot to empire to sell it. There are simple ways to mitigate both of these, but hiding leads to downtime and jump bridging or cynoing adds overhead cost.
Since his post fails to account for this it is in fact a troll.
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ShardowRhino
Caldari
Legion 0f The Damned
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Posted - 2008.11.30 10:32:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Misanth
Buff lowsec ratting, keep missioning in high/low/nullsec as it is, keep 0.0 as it is.
Ta~da.
this man speaks the truth. I know because its something ive mentioned several times.
seriously if people want a real challenge when they are ratting, go rat in low sec. tons of people looking for easy targets. at the same time you can pick off npcs worth jack.
most 0.0 ratters get popped because they were lazy or new and weren't sure where most hostiles will hit and what systems are generally to deep for them. 5+ jumps behind the front line + intel channels+ local = only idiots are going to get popped.
what the morons that are whining about L4s should be doing is inviting the carebears to join FW. the reason people want l4s nerfed is to try and force players to join alliances they wouldn't want to join otherwise.kinda sad if you think about having to pull carebears kicking and screaming to join you. get the pvers to pvp once in a while and get a taste of the rest of eve has to offer. give them a reason to spend some of that isk.
trying to get l4s nerfed is in no way going to get them to go out to 0.0. instead they will settle for the next most profitiable thing they can do in safety.
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techzer0
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
|
Posted - 2008.11.30 10:33:00 -
[12]
Originally by: TheEndofTheWorld
YOU CANNOT KILL A 0.0 NPCER/MINER/COMPLEXER ETC IF HE IS WATCHING THE LOCAL CHANNEL. That is a problem and needs to be fixed.
AFK cloak an alt in the ratters system 23/7. Risk and no reward...
Show me a highsec mission hub that has that without mass wardecs.
------------
Originally by: Nexus Kinnon
I could outgay you even without my pink tutu. >.>
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TheEndofTheWorld
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.11.30 10:35:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Karille
Originally by: Misanth
Originally by: Karille
2/10 For effort
Meh, he's right you know, plus it's not aggravating what he's typing. If it's a troll, he's not very bright tbh. It IS impossible to lose ratting ships unless you're stupid or suck, and 0.0-ratting (in decent areas) pays alot better than high-sec missioning. And ofc, low- and nullsec missioning pays alot better.
If he wants to troll he should at least put in something that isn't true and makes people argue about it.
In 0.0 There is a higher probability of being attacked by a player, and you have to move the loot to empire to sell it. There are simple ways to mitigate both of these, but hiding leads to downtime and jump bridging or cynoing adds overhead cost.
Since his post fails to account for this it is in fact a troll.
You do not get attacked in 0.0 unwillingly, if you have any idea what you are doing. That is the main problem, it ruins the risk vs reward of 0.0
1) Yes, roaming gangs to lower the ISK/h ratio, but not that badly, no more than -10% on a bad day.
2) Capital jumping/transporting loot is very very cheap.
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Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
Black Legion.
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Posted - 2008.11.30 10:35:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Karille
In 0.0 There is a higher probability of being attacked by a player, and you have to move the loot to empire to sell it. There are simple ways to mitigate both of these, but hiding leads to downtime and jump bridging or cynoing adds overhead cost.
Since his post fails to account for this it is in fact a troll.
There's alot more variables than that, and should he post all of it, it'd be a massive wall of text and noone would read it.
Another dimension is this;
Originally by: techzer0
Originally by: TheEndofTheWorld
YOU CANNOT KILL A 0.0 NPCER/MINER/COMPLEXER ETC IF HE IS WATCHING THE LOCAL CHANNEL. That is a problem and needs to be fixed.
AFK cloak an alt in the ratters system 23/7. Risk and no reward...
Show me a highsec mission hub that has that without mass wardecs.
/sign
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Kalintos Tyl
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.11.30 10:37:00 -
[15]
motsu caldari raven achurs in state war academy are disagring
Quote:
It's not a good idea to place a Exotic Dancers in a Giant Secure Container. The Exotic Dancers will not survive intact, if transported in such a container.
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TheEndofTheWorld
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.11.30 10:37:00 -
[16]
Originally by: techzer0
Originally by: TheEndofTheWorld
YOU CANNOT KILL A 0.0 NPCER/MINER/COMPLEXER ETC IF HE IS WATCHING THE LOCAL CHANNEL. That is a problem and needs to be fixed.
AFK cloak an alt in the ratters system 23/7. Risk and no reward...
Show me a highsec mission hub that has that without mass wardecs.
Does not work, any half-decent alliance can do a
1) very decent trap
2) move to the next system
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Norwood Franskly
Minmatar
Fleet of the Damned
Dark Trinity Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.30 10:40:00 -
[17]
give me loyalty points for ratting...
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techzer0
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2008.11.30 10:44:00 -
[18]
Originally by: TheEndofTheWorld
Originally by: techzer0
Originally by: TheEndofTheWorld
YOU CANNOT KILL A 0.0 NPCER/MINER/COMPLEXER ETC IF HE IS WATCHING THE LOCAL CHANNEL. That is a problem and needs to be fixed.
AFK cloak an alt in the ratters system 23/7. Risk and no reward...
Show me a highsec mission hub that has that without mass wardecs.
Does not work, any half-decent alliance can do a
1) very decent trap
2) move to the next system
Yes, but it affects the solo players ratting in 0.0, of which a majority of highsec mission runners are solo players. I agree there is not much more risk/reward in either... but you're doing it wrong.
------------
Originally by: Nexus Kinnon
I could outgay you even without my pink tutu. >.>
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Holy Lowlander
Comply Or Die
G00DFELLAS
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Posted - 2008.11.30 10:47:00 -
[19]
lol this troll is fail.
and if it isn't a troll :
do empire carebears have to fight for their space ? NO.
do empire carebears have to watch local all the time ? NO.
do empire carebears have to bother with intel channels ? NO.
do empire carebears lose alot of isk ? NO , only costs they have is on ammo.
0.0 ratting is suposed to be better as highsec missionrunning , because 0.0 life is way more expensive , so either stop stop posting or try something before you say anything about it .
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TheEndofTheWorld
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.11.30 11:36:00 -
[20]
Edited by: TheEndofTheWorld on 30/11/2008 11:37:07
Originally by: Holy Lowlander
do empire carebears have to fight for their space ? NO.
do empire carebears have to watch local all the time ? NO.
do empire carebears have to bother with intel channels ? NO.
do empire carebears lose alot of isk ? NO , only costs they have is on ammo.
0.0 ratting is suposed to be better as highsec missionrunning , because 0.0 life is way more expensive , so either stop stop posting or try something before you say anything about it .
1. EVE 0.0 politics are fairly stagnant. I mean, goons have been where they are for 2 years, bob 3-4 years, NC 3-4 years? And in the end losing space is usually means you get to keep most of your assets, and rejoin/form as a new ally of another alliance in a different part of 0.0 and start again with no major financial losses.
2. Watching local is hard??? You don't even have to pay attention, you just have to leave local chat open and SS/POS the first moment you see a non-friendly.
3. Local will do good enough, if you aren't bothered to check intel channels, besides you can always be on alliance/corp TS, where they report hostiles and the like.
4. a lot of isk? most of the assets cannot be lost and there is no reasonable amount non-consensual pvp in 0.0 anymore. You can always dock up, cloak up, blob up and fight on CAOD now days.
And this topic is about something else, the risk & reward imbalance of 0.0.
0.0 is simply carebearland with a different name, and those 0.0 carebears some why think they are so much better than carebears in highsec.
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Durty Nell
Caldari
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.11.30 11:41:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Karille
Originally by: Misanth
Originally by: Karille
2/10 For effort
In 0.0 There is a higher probability of being attacked by a player, and you have to move the loot to empire to sell it. There are simple ways to mitigate both of these, but hiding leads to downtime and jump bridging or cynoing adds overhead cost.
Since his post fails to account for this it is in fact a troll.
YouÆre either not very smart or youÆre trolling the OP.
First of all what you say has a degree of truth in it but it is not the complete picture. There is no need to do any of the things you suggest are necessity. There is plenty of 0.0 NPC space to base out of, where anyone can mine, rat, produce and play the market. In fact many including myself have done so, very successfully for a long time.
Originally by: Norwood Franskly
give me loyalty points for ratting...
Give the OP faction/officer lewt worth billionsà
Originally by: Holy Lowlander
lol this troll is fail.
and if it isn't a troll :
do empire carebears have to fight for their space ? NO.
do empire carebears have to watch local all the time ? NO.
do empire carebears have to bother with intel channels ? NO.
do empire carebears lose alot of isk ? NO , only costs they have is on ammo.
ratting is suposed to be better as highsec missionrunning , because 0.0 life is way more expensive , so either stop stop posting or try something before you say anything about it .
You only have to fight for the space if youÆre leaders can convince you that their high end moons are worth your time and effort to control.
To questions 2 and 3. I would answer yes and no depending on wither NPCÆer is in a WardecÆd corp or not.
Finally the NPCÆer has about the same chance of loosing lots of ISK as a 0.0 dweller has. If they are stupid that must be expected, if not then it pretty much evens out.
The OP has a point but of course itÆs a different story when we 0.0 PvPÆers are called out. We see posts like these calling the messenger a troll.
------
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KhaniKirai
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Posted - 2008.11.30 11:46:00 -
[22]
Originally by: TheEndofTheWorld
You can read a lot about 0.0 players complaining about lvl4 being too rewarding, with no real risk.
But...
When do you really die when ratting in 0.0?
1) when you are new
2) when you are afk in belt
3) when you are too confident
Experienced 0.0 ratters die rarely if ever at all.
... mission runners die for the same reason.
0.0 has better rewards than highsec lvl4s, yet similar risk levels.
either nerf 0.0 reward or make it riskier to rat in 0.0
You can read a lot about lvl 4 mission players complaining about 0.0 being too rewarding, with no real risk.
But...
When do you really die when doing lvl 4 missions?
1) when you are new
2) when you are afk in the mission
3) when you are too confident
Experienced lvl 4 missionplayers die rarely if ever at all.
... 0.0 belt runners die for the same reason.
lvl 4 has EASIER rewards than 0.0, yet WAY LOWER risk levels.
(Beside, what silly lvl 4 missioneers forget is: in 0.0 you dont have time for ratting that often. You have to get your isk to replace ships or invest in new ones, between the call to arms and defence or attack ops.)
either nerf lvl 4 reward or make it more worthwhile to rat in 0.0
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Typhado3
Minmatar
Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.11.30 11:55:00 -
[23]
... it's dt overwise I wouldn't respond to the troll
1. 0.0 you can't rat while hostiles in system (unless you like dieing), it's pretty hard to catch nano's or cloaked ships and anyone with a cloak can sneak into system and log off then log back on later to kill ratters so these guys are all over the place and there is nothing practical you can do to stop them.
2. there is limited number of belts in 0.0, you can squeeze as many mission runners onto a single agent as you want.
3. 0.0 you have to fight for you space which takes up time and isk. though a day of ratting can be more proffitable than a day of missioning the next day where you have to spend pvp'ign to keep your space kind screws your profit. If you aren't fighting for your space your either in crap space where your profit is **** or your a parasite in your alliance and if you aren't in an alliance you will lose your pos when you get jumped and ****d by the local big boys.
4. the market in 0.0 is much more expensive and the stations (if you are lucky enough to have one) are much further apart.
ccp fix mining agent missions % pls |
Cairn Metalhand
Swedish Aerospace Inc
G00DFELLAS
|
Posted - 2008.11.30 11:58:00 -
[24]
Originally by: TheEndofTheWorld
You can read a lot about 0.0 players complaining about lvl4 being too rewarding, with no real risk.
But...
When do you really die when ratting in 0.0?
1) when you are new
2) when you are afk in belt
3) when you are too confident
Experienced 0.0 ratters die rarely if ever at all.
... mission runners die for the same reason.
0.0 has better rewards than highsec lvl4s, yet similar risk levels.
either nerf 0.0 reward or make it riskier to rat in 0.0
So, if you take your CNR while in a noob corp and go to, ie, venal for some ratting, the chance of you dying is the same as if you go to Motsu for some lvl 4 missions?
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Durty Nell
Caldari
State War Academy
|
Posted - 2008.11.30 12:17:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Cairn Metalhand
Originally by: TheEndofTheWorld
So, if you take your CNR while in a noob corp and go to, ie, venal for some ratting, the chance of you dying is the same as if you go to Motsu for some lvl 4 missions?
There is exactly the same odds on loosing a CNR in æinsert 0.0 NPC regionÆ as there is in a lvl 4 mission hub in high sec unless the pilot in high sec is in an NPC corp. If the pilot is in an NPC corp they run the risk of the suicide gank which incidentally isnÆt a problem in 0.0, ergo >> if someone else is in local, '0.0', the pilot may loose CNR.
ThereÆs a bit of a difference when you think about it. There is no way the pilot can avoid the suicide gank in high sec, where as in 0.0 the pilot has the chance to escape as soon as they see local pop.
Your move!
------
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Calprimus
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
|
Posted - 2008.11.30 12:21:00 -
[26]
Originally by: ShardowRhino
Originally by: Misanth
Buff lowsec ratting, keep missioning in high/low/nullsec as it is, keep 0.0 as it is.
Ta~da.
this man speaks the truth. I know because its something ive mentioned several times.
seriously if people want a real challenge when they are ratting, go rat in low sec. tons of people looking for easy targets. at the same time you can pick off npcs worth jack.
most 0.0 ratters get popped because they were lazy or new and weren't sure where most hostiles will hit and what systems are generally to deep for them. 5+ jumps behind the front line + intel channels+ local = only idiots are going to get popped.
what the morons that are whining about L4s should be doing is inviting the carebears to join FW. the reason people want l4s nerfed is to try and force players to join alliances they wouldn't want to join otherwise.kinda sad if you think about having to pull carebears kicking and screaming to join you. get the pvers to pvp once in a while and get a taste of the rest of eve has to offer. give them a reason to spend some of that isk.
trying to get l4s nerfed is in no way going to get them to go out to 0.0. instead they will settle for the next most profitiable thing they can do in safety.
/thread
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Karentaki
Gallente
Fighting While Intoxicated
Intrepid Crossing
|
Posted - 2008.11.30 12:31:00 -
[27]
Stupid troll, but I'm going to bite anyway just in case this guy is for real.
Originally by: TheEndofTheWorld
You do not get attacked in 0.0 unwillingly, if you have any idea what you are doing. That is the main problem, it ruins the risk vs reward of 0.0
How about risk vs reward for L4 missions? ANYONE (even braindead people) can run L4 missions and not die. The fact that it takes more than 10 braincells and 2 fingers to rat safely in 0.0 proves that they are more dangerous. Also, your basic premise is wrong - you do NOT get more ISK ratting in 0.0 than you make running L4 missions, since you have to take into account the 'downtime' due to reds, empty belts, wars, logistics, and everything else needed to run a successful alliance. This argument is like comparing apples and oranges - they are two completely different aspects of the game, and while one can be done by any braindead sheep, the other takes at least a few people with some brains to make it work.
Quote:
EVE is like a sandbox with landmines. Deal with it.
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TheEndofTheWorld
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.11.30 12:39:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Cairn Metalhand
So, if you take your CNR while in a noob corp and go to, ie, venal for some ratting, the chance of you dying is the same as if you go to Motsu for some lvl 4 missions?
Besides putting in a little extra effort to get there (aka shuttle scout alt), yes. But this thread is more directed at 0.0 alliances who have everything handed to them on a silver plate.
Originally by: Typhado3
... it's dt overwise I wouldn't respond to the troll
1. 0.0 you can't rat while hostiles in system (unless you like dieing), it's pretty hard to catch nano's or cloaked ships and anyone with a cloak can sneak into system and log off then log back on later to kill ratters so these guys are all over the place and there is nothing practical you can do to stop them.
2. there is limited number of belts in 0.0, you can squeeze as many mission runners onto a single agent as you want.
3. 0.0 you have to fight for you space which takes up time and isk. though a day of ratting can be more proffitable than a day of missioning the next day where you have to spend pvp'ign to keep your space kind screws your profit. If you aren't fighting for your space your either in crap space where your profit is **** or your a parasite in your alliance and if you aren't in an alliance you will lose your pos when you get jumped and ****d by the local big boys.
4. the market in 0.0 is much more expensive and the stations (if you are lucky enough to have one) are much further apart.
1. change systems, make a trap, very easy. Also, the reverse also applies, those roaming gangs cannot catch the 0.0 carebears, and it has come to the point where there is almost no player side threat for 0.0 carebearing.
2. add in mining, moon mining, exploration...
3. again, most of the alliances get by with little to no fighting at all, and on top of that, losing space generally has very little financial consequences. Defense mechanisms have been made faar to strong, and losing stations does not destroy all of your poses/assets etc.
4. Capital hauling....
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Esmenet
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.11.30 13:00:00 -
[29]
Lol try living in 0.0 once "Theendoftheworld".
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Megamina
Delta-Fr
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Posted - 2008.11.30 13:52:00 -
[30]
Yet the OP has forgotten the very basic idea behind higher rewards in 0.0..
CCP wants you to go t0.0, to fight, to pvp for you dear -1.xx nber ratting system... Don't forget Eve is a pvp focused game, not a carebear pve game. When you'll understand this simple basic fact then you would stop whining for nothing...
Besides of that, your arguments are pure fail since it doesn't take into consideration the obvious fact you must reach the 0.0 ratting system and fight for it if necessary. Moreover, who in game loses the most ships ? the miners ? no ; the pve player ? no again... the 0.0 based alliance are the most prolific when it comes to lost ships and to carry on those huge battles with hundreds of kills in one night you need a good income... |
Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.11.30 13:57:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Sidus Isaacs on 30/11/2008 13:57:44
CCP is actually planning NPC AI. So yeah, changes will come to missions and 0.0 rats soon enough ^^ |
Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
|
Posted - 2008.11.30 14:15:00 -
[32]
The extra reward is for not relying on NPCs watching your back.
If it was really worth it, more people would be out there. You nerf the things that everyone is doing, not the things a minority are doing. Failtroll etc. |
Tasty Bit
Gallente
UNITED STAR SYNDICATE
|
Posted - 2008.11.30 14:27:00 -
[33]
Why not just reduce Eve to 1 security level (arbitrarily assigned by CCCP), and remove every ship except 1.
There, issue addressed. Next? |
Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
|
Posted - 2008.11.30 14:30:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Tasty Bit
Why not just reduce Eve to 1 security level (arbitrarily assigned by CCCP), and remove every ship except 1.
There, issue addressed. Next?
I think they would actually have the game balance themselves. |
5pinDizzy
Amarr
Umpteenth Podding
|
Posted - 2008.11.30 14:52:00 -
[35]
You fail hard OP, nullsec is fine, just listen to all the alliance members and their alts in this thr... oh wait...
Maybe some of the majority are still in highsec because like me, they were in an alliance and yeah it was very profitable, but you were a complete tool for them and the the hours I spent on joining nullsec fleet pvp was some of the most unimaginably boring times of my life.
Hence I'm never going back, full of backstabbing *****s anyway. Occasional nullsec roams with a dash of lowsec piracy and an occasional empire wardec is where the fun is at anyway OP. Leave the powerplayers to their toys in nullsec out way.
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DownTwisTeD
|
Posted - 2008.11.30 14:59:00 -
[36]
since we are on the 00 pet peeve topic, i hate the aggression time of 30 seconds on 00 system gates since when is 00 space low sec huh?
i ask what law is there in a lawless town with no sheriff in it.
what great genius came up with the idea of a aggression time on a 00 system date huh?
SHOT HIM..
A feaken 00 system is not a LOW SEC system...OK!  |
5pinDizzy
Amarr
Umpteenth Podding
|
Posted - 2008.11.30 15:23:00 -
[37]
Edited by: 5pinDizzy on 30/11/2008 15:25:26
I've asked that before Downtwisted, makes no sense to me either.
I think the answer I got last time was "Shuttup, that's why"
Although this argument isn't quite as strong, you could also sorta argue aswell why concord increase your sec status and pay out bounties to you for playing the lone ranger outside empire space. |
Liranan
M'8'S
Frontal Impact
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Posted - 2008.11.30 15:41:00 -
[38]
LOL thread!! |
Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
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Posted - 2008.11.30 15:54:00 -
[39]
Originally by: 5pinDizzy
I've asked that before Downtwisted, makes no sense to me either.
I think the answer I got last time was "Shuttup, that's why"
It's a necessary mechanic to prevent gatehugging as a free invulnerability button and to make players who engage in PvP commit to fighting when they decide to shoot
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Dantes Revenge
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.11.30 16:02:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Dantes Revenge on 30/11/2008 16:02:33
Originally by: DownTwisTeD
since we are on the 00 pet peeve topic, i hate the aggression time of 30 seconds on 00 system gates since when is 00 space low sec huh?
i ask what law is there in a lawless town with no sheriff in it.
Because, even though there's no sheriff, the law still applies. Using your analogy, every country village with no police station should be completely free of laws. Gates are comtrolled by computers, those computers were programmed to do certain things, irrespective of sec of the system they are in. So even though the cops are not around to act on it, the alarms still go off.
Also, as 5pindizzy pointed out, you are happy to get bounties for rats in 0.0 but whine when the law mechanics are not in your favour. And then you call highsec carebears the whiners
Edit: Grammar
--
There's a simple difference between kinky and perverted. Kinky is using a feather to get her in the mood. Perverted is using the whole chicken.
All this has happened before and will happen again |
Gankbear
Amarr
Gankbears
|
Posted - 2008.11.30 16:22:00 -
[41]
Has captain carebear OP ever even been to 0.0?????
Why 0.0 ratting should be more rewarding than Empire carebearing
1: You have zero chance of being killed outside the door of your own station in a enemy bubble camp.
2: you have zero chance of jumping into a enemey gatecamp bubble going to the next system.
3: logistics - everything in 0.0 costs more and is harder to get. Even with good logistics it can take a week or so to put together a fit that takes 5 minutes to buy in jita
4: PVP - pure and simple 99 percent of carebears suffer ZERO losses to PVP, ratting in 0.0 is the only realistic way for residents to make back the losses defending their home space.
5: Residency costs. Whether you hold sov or not it COSTS ISK to live in 0.0. you are either paying rent to a landlord or paying for your POS fuelling and a large enough cap fleet to defend it. You don't think people in 0.0 just sit round knitting scarves do you??
6: lockdown time. On Any given sunday you will lose a good percentage of your ratting time to PVP lockdown due to roaming gangs or fleet battles in your area making it unsafe to undock any good ratting ship.
7: Risk of ship loss. Csrebear mission runners can fully fit for rats with zero risk. nullsec ratters usually have to gimp fit for semi PVP, if you stop ratting and cloak/warp to safe/dock everytime a red warps in you would get less isk/hour than doing L1's in empire.
and double fail for hiding behind a lamers NPC corp proving carebears won't PVP!!!
-----------------------------
Gankbears Sarcasm hits fail thread for 249 lolcatz causing it to be locked. CCP Mitnal laid the final blow.
|
Core Researcher
|
Posted - 2008.11.30 16:54:00 -
[42]
Originally by: TheEndofTheWorld
0.0 has better rewards than highsec lvl4s, yet similar risk levels.
less risk tbh.
Its notable that the first 4 posters after the OP are all from 0.0 alliances and all for some reason are eager to show that the OP is wrong.
Uncanny.
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Grarr Dexx
Amarr
Paxton Industries
Paxton Federation
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Posted - 2008.11.30 17:18:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Core Researcher
Originally by: TheEndofTheWorld
0.0 has better rewards than highsec lvl4s, yet similar risk levels.
less risk tbh.
Its notable that the first 4 posters after the OP are all from 0.0 alliances and all for some reason are eager to show that the OP is wrong.
Uncanny.
Funny. You try going to a good 0.0 pocket with rewarding rats, in a 0.0 alliance, and see how long you last without showing up for any defensive of offensive activities.
-----
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Dantes Revenge
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.11.30 17:20:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Gankbear
Has captain carebear OP ever even been to 0.0?????
Why 0.0 ratting should be more rewarding than Empire carebearing
Let's also look at the flipside.
Quote:
1: You have zero chance of being killed outside the door of your own station in a enemy bubble camp.
If you play in Highsec in a player corp, you cannot defend your own systems with bubble camps against enemies who have wardecced you. Lowsec - The same and also there's no mechanic that allows you to "seal off" huge areas for your carebears to rat in.
Quote:
2: you have zero chance of jumping into a enemey gatecamp bubble going to the next system.
Same answer since it's essentially the same problem.
Quote:
Loistics - everything in 0.0 costs more and is harder to get. Even with good logistics it can take a week or so to put together a fit that takes 5 minutes to buy in jita
I'll give you that one.
Quote:
PVP - pure and simple 99 percent of carebears suffer ZERO losses to PVP, ratting in 0.0 is the only realistic way for residents to make back the losses defending their home space.
Hmmmm... So PVP in lowsec is non existant is it? Wardecs in highsec don't actually exists? Interesting... Also, there's no mechanic in lowsec to defend your home systems. Sov doesn't exist there so you can have an enemy POS in your own system and not even know about it. There are no mechanics at all in highsec to allow NBSI to stop alt spies roaming your home system during a wardec.
Quote:
5: Residency costs. Whether you hold sov or not it COSTS ISK to live in 0.0. you are either paying rent to a landlord or paying for your POS fuelling and a large enough cap fleet to defend it. You don't think people in 0.0 just sit round knitting scarves do you??
And players in lowsec sit around when they have a POS in lowsec? Again, no Sov means no warning when enemy corps put a POS in the same system as you. No cyno jammers means any enemy with a cap ship or black ops can cyno in or even bring a few friends through a jump portal. Both lowsec and highsec require extra costs in the form of charters so it's actually more expensive to have a POS in Empire.
Quote:
6: lockdown time. On Any given sunday you will lose a good percentage of your ratting time to PVP lockdown due to roaming gangs or fleet battles in your area making it unsafe to undock any good ratting ship.
Can't see any difference to lowsec or highsec during a wardec at all. Apart from the lack of defeseability due to Sov.
Quote:
7: Risk of ship loss. Csrebear mission runners can fully fit for rats with zero risk. nullsec ratters usually have to gimp fit for semi PVP, if you stop ratting and cloak/warp to safe/dock everytime a red warps in you would get less isk/hour than doing L1's in empire.
During a wardec or in lowsec the same applies.
Quote:
and double fail for hiding behind a lamers NPC corp proving carebears won't PVP!!!
And double fail for you for not realising that you can still do FW in NPC corps. In fact, due to standings and trying to get everyone above a certain level to get the corp level up, It practically demands it. This also does not detract form the fact that in lowsec, anyone is a target whether they are in a NPC corp or not so lowsec ratting/mission running is just as hazardous.
Overall, due to Sov and bubbles in nullsec, lowsec mission running and ratting is more hazardous than nullsec. With Sov and bubbles, you have several defences to prevent entry by an enemy. If you're in a player corp in highsec during a wardec, the same applies but with even less defence since you can't gank neuts who may be spies for the enemy.
--
There's a simple difference between kinky and perverted. Kinky is using a feather to get her in the mood. Perverted is using the whole chicken.
All this has happened before and will happen again |
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2008.11.30 17:24:00 -
[45]
Originally by: TheEndofTheWorld
You can read a lot about 0.0 players complaining about lvl4 being too rewarding, with no real risk.
But...
When do you really die when ratting in 0.0?
1) when you are new
2) when you are afk in belt
3) when you are too confident
Experienced 0.0 ratters die rarely if ever at all.
... mission runners die for the same reason.
0.0 has better rewards than highsec lvl4s, yet similar risk levels.
either nerf 0.0 reward or make it riskier to rat in 0.0
Oh look, a troll. Shoo. Back under your bridge.
--
249km locking? |
Soporo
Caldari
The Graduates
Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2008.11.30 17:57:00 -
[46]
Op's premise is wrong. It's not 0.0 folks that whine about level 4's, it's LowSuck pies who want more targets.
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Cat Molina
Minmatar
Psychotic Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.11.30 19:41:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Soporo
Op's premise is wrong. It's not 0.0 folks that whine about level 4's, it's LowSuck pies who want more targets.
I'm curious... when they get rid of T1 module drops from missions, do you think they'll also remove them from 0.0 belt rats?
Do you think, eventually, that hauler spawns will be a thing of the past?
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Apoctasy
Fluffy Muffins
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Posted - 2008.11.30 19:47:00 -
[48]
1/10
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Andres Talas
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Posted - 2008.11.30 23:07:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Gankbear
Has captain carebear OP ever even been to 0.0?????
Why 0.0 ratting should be more rewarding than Empire carebearing
2: you have zero chance of jumping into a enemey gatecamp bubble going to the next system.
3: logistics - everything in 0.0 costs more and is harder to get. Even with good logistics it can take a week or so to put together a fit that takes 5 minutes to buy in jita
4: PVP - pure and simple 99 percent of carebears suffer ZERO losses to PVP, ratting in 0.0 is the only realistic way for residents to make back the losses defending their home space.
5: Residency costs. Whether you hold sov or not it COSTS ISK to live in 0.0. you are either paying rent to a landlord or paying for your POS fuelling and a large enough cap fleet to defend it. You don't think people in 0.0 just sit round knitting scarves do you??
6: lockdown time. On Any given sunday you will lose a good percentage of your ratting time to PVP lockdown due to roaming gangs or fleet battles in your area making it unsafe to undock any good ratting ship.
7: Risk of ship loss. Csrebear mission runners can fully fit for rats with zero risk. nullsec ratters usually have to gimp fit for semi PVP, if you stop ratting and cloak/warp to safe/dock everytime a red warps in you would get less isk/hour than doing L1's in empire.
and double fail for hiding behind a lamers NPC corp proving carebears won't PVP!!!
Whole bunch of completely untrue crap.
2. Intel channels. Know em, love em. Map showing pilots inn space - know it, love it.
3. True, but not particularily relevant. Ammo is a remarkably low cost on a per-rat basis. Or, use lazors.
4. So completely untrue it isnt funny. You cant rat enough to make back serious PvP losses (ie a dread). Learn2market, learn2moon react or learn2flycheapships.
5. CVA run NRDS, and FDN did. Be prepared to spend some time in a defense gang, and no-one will care that you brought a cheap EWar cruiser. Kugutsmen is quoting PL doco that puts rental costs at 5m a month per member of a renting corp in Fountain, and that includes an intel channel.
6. You dont need a *good* ship to rat in 0.0 - you just need an adequate one. Sure, it's marginally slower but the occasional losses hurt less.
7. Completely untrue. I can make circa 2m an hour running L1s in Empire, and circa 5m an hour ratting in 0.0 in my trusty "uh oh, there's 2 battleships, next belt" Vexor
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Xiaodown
coracao ardente
Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2008.12.01 00:22:00 -
[50]
Originally by: TheEndofTheWorld
Originally by: Karille
Originally by: Misanth
Originally by: Karille
2/10 For effort
Meh, he's right you know, plus it's not aggravating what he's typing. If it's a troll, he's not very bright tbh. It IS impossible to lose ratting ships unless you're stupid or suck, and 0.0-ratting (in decent areas) pays alot better than high-sec missioning. And ofc, low- and nullsec missioning pays alot better.
If he wants to troll he should at least put in something that isn't true and makes people argue about it.
In 0.0 There is a higher probability of being attacked by a player, and you have to move the loot to empire to sell it. There are simple ways to mitigate both of these, but hiding leads to downtime and jump bridging or cynoing adds overhead cost.
Since his post fails to account for this it is in fact a troll.
You do not get attacked in 0.0 unwillingly, if you have any idea what you are doing. That is the main problem, it ruins the risk vs reward of 0.0
1) Yes, roaming gangs to lower the ISK/h ratio, but not that badly, no more than -10% on a bad day.
2) Capital jumping/transporting loot is very very cheap.
Of course.
Because there are no rats that warp scramble you.
Because the likelihood of getting attacked in a lvl4 mission hub is just as high as in 0.0.
And lastly, as a clue to those of you who don't live in 0.0 - most of it is completely empty and entirely worthless. There's probably, what, 5,000 0.0 systems in eve? probably less than 500 are worth fighting over. You can very easily travel 20 jumps in 0.0 and never see another soul. Because all those systems with true sec status of -0.1 ~ -0.7 are pretty much worthless unless they have a top-end moon. And as a cruel joke to those who want to rat, most of the -1.0 systems have like 2 belts and an ice field.
0.0 isn't the rich lush paradise that people seem to think it is. There aren't iskies laying around waiting to be picked up. 90% of it is worthless and yet carries the same risk as the 10%.
--
Sig under construction.
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Flavia Clio
Ero Guro
DEFI4NT
|
Posted - 2008.12.01 00:31:00 -
[51]
O.O ratting is the easy part. Living there is the hard part.
Market is crap, 1 or 2 stations within 10 jumps to dock at. Loot is **** usually if you luck into a decent drop, then you have to haul it to empire to sell it.
Good thing about 0.0 is it isn't empire.
One thing I would like to see is low sec rats get a bounty boost. Right now there is no incentive to rat in low sec. Reward vs risk isn't there.
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Roy Batty68
Caldari
Immortal Dead
|
Posted - 2008.12.01 01:05:00 -
[52]
It's TheEndofTheWorld as we know it
It's TheEndofTheWorld as we know it
It's The...
...It's TheEndofTheWorld as we know it
And I feel fine
Ok song, I suppose. Kind of annoying though. Gets in your head for hours. 
----
≡v≡ |
Gorefacer
Caldari
Resurrection
Skunk-Works
|
Posted - 2008.12.01 01:08:00 -
[53]
Any excellent ratting space will be contested. Any contested space will take resources and time to conquer/secure/defend. You may be a pilot in an alliance that doesn't do your fair share of the fighting. OR maybe your alliance doesn't do it's fair share of fighting for the coalition it's part of. Either way if your getting easy ISK ratting and losing or risking a minimum in return you are either a moocher or part of a mooching entity.
Your perspective doesn't take the larger picture into account. Your confusing your ignorant narrow view with fact and stating it as such.
Don't believe me? Start your own alliance, go after lucrative ratting space in 0.0. Come back and tell us how easy it is to take that space, how easy it is to keep that space, how little it costs to keep that space, and how much time you have to rat in that space.
There is no risk when you reap the reward of 0.0 after someone else has put the effort into it. If your talking about ratting in "hostile" space, then I also disagree as you have to move around and have a logistic pipeline. When you account for needing alts and cap ships and still run the risk of getting snagged at any time there is no way you can compare it to the ease of high security mission running.
It's not that you can't rat almost anywhere in the game and make a profit, just that it takes more risk preparation and thought than doing high sec missions.
Though I would be fine with making 0.0 ratting riskier, depending on the way it's done.
"You can't reason someone out of a belief they haven't reasoned themselves into" - Prometheus |
Faife
Noctiscion
|
Posted - 2008.12.01 01:31:00 -
[54]
0.0 is safer because you don't have to worry about war decs and gate guns.
sound. |
Olleybear
The Graduates
Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2008.12.01 01:34:00 -
[55]
Here we go again.
LVL 4's are da uber isk making machin!!! Keal and Nurf it!
or
0.0 are da uber isk making machin....
You get the picture.
Both have their places for the different types of playstyles of the Eve gaming community. Neither are the bane of the other.
This horse we have beating on over the years is so far beyond dead that we've crushed the bleached bones of the horse into a fine powder by continuing to hit it.
Oh, and if it weren't for rich carebears running level 4 missions, who would buy that Gisti B-Type X-Large shield booster from you 0.0 plex runners? Those things are useless in 0.0 PVP when you have 10 red BS's primaring you.
Hi sec relys on 0.0 for the really good faction/officer mods, hi end minerals, while 0.0 relys on Hi sec to sell minerals/mods, pos fuel, bpo's, tech II mods........
Both are interconnected with the other. |
masternerdguy
|
Posted - 2008.12.01 01:36:00 -
[56]
ok then.....
in a hi sec level 4 mission these are your risks:
not aligning fast enough
being warp scrammed
in 0.0 these are your potential risks (i was in bruce when goons were camping us big time and these are very damaging)
getting ganked in 0.0 by an enemy fleet
dying to the rat (rare, but it happens)
not aligning fast enough
if ur in a carrier ratting you may get attacked cuz you drew attention 2 urself
extended risks of 0.0 ratting:
not being able to rat decreases ur cash flow
low cash flow == bad time pvping
enough said |
Miss Peaches
|
Posted - 2008.12.01 05:05:00 -
[57]
Ive been playing this game for 2 years and low security still boggles my mind. Other then having level 5 missions (fairly new btw), the only other purpose for low security seems to be to just join some random empire systems together. Other then that, low sec is useless- obivously its fun to "pirate" and kill some random haulers, frieghters that like to jump in unscouted that are heading for 0.0 heaven. Other then that I dont really get the point of it.
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Durty Nell
Caldari
State War Academy
|
Posted - 2008.12.01 09:22:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Olleybear
Here we go again.
LVL 4's are da uber isk making machin!!! Keal and Nurf it!
or
0.0 are da uber isk making machin....
You get the picture.
Both have their places for the different types of playstyles of the Eve gaming community. Neither are the bane of the other.
This horse we have beating on over the years is so far beyond dead that we've crushed the bleached bones of the horse into a fine powder by continuing to hit it.
Oh, and if it weren't for rich carebears running level 4 missions, who would buy that Gisti B-Type X-Large shield booster from you 0.0 plex runners? Those things are useless in 0.0 PVP when you have 10 red BS's primaring you.
Hi sec relys on 0.0 for the really good faction/officer mods, hi end minerals, while 0.0 relys on Hi sec to sell minerals/mods, pos fuel, bpo's, tech II mods........
Both are interconnected with the other.
The smartest most insightful post in this thread by far.
YouÆre absolutely spot on mate. Both high sec lvl 4 mission runners and 0.0 dwellers are inter connected like a pair of conjoined twins. In spite of these two very different game playing microcosms there is no way to separate either without one or the other dieing or worst still also killing off other avenues of game play.
YouÆre also spot on with your analogy of the æDead HorseÆ though I must admit it did raise a chortle. The discussion has been done to death over the years yet still people feel the need to revisit it time and time again, even after CCP have commented publicly on the delicate balance of the system and the possible pitfalls of tinkering with it.
------
|
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CCP Applebabe
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Posted - 2008.12.01 09:59:00 -
[59]
Moved to " Missions & Complexes" forum.
Applebabe
Community Representative
CCP Games, EVE Online
Email / Netfang |
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Reangorette Bianie
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Posted - 2008.12.01 12:06:00 -
[60]
0.0 is so great, its just all of EVE, not at all like hi sec. I can kill npc's.....
wait.....
kill npc's? .....
I'm supposed to be killing players!!!!!.......
Remove NPC's from lo sec...............(they corrupt the nul sec ethos)
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TheEndofTheWorld
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.12.01 13:15:00 -
[61]
Edited by: TheEndofTheWorld on 01/12/2008 13:16:27
This topic has nothing to do with lvl4, missions or complexes. I genuinely wonder why this thread was moved... it is all about 0.0 players.
0.0 players blame lvl4s for being carebears, yet in the end, 0.0 is hardly the cold harsh space it should be. 0.0 alliances are nearly immune to small gang roaming and the only way to force people to fight is to bring mega blobs and shoot poses(very fun) and that does NOT DESTROY them financially, they just pack up their stuff and escape and keep 90%+ of their assets, possibly even retake the station in future OR just call your 10000 friends and blob up as the defenders have plenty of time to play with the defense mechanisms.
nerf highsec lvl4s AND(!) nerf
1. local
2. outposts (make them destructible or damageable)
3. undo capital hp boosts
4. remove strontium from poses (might need a few other gameplay changes as well, to stop dread/bs blobs from killing towers too fast)
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echip
|
Posted - 2008.12.01 14:08:00 -
[62]
nerf lvl 4"s nerf lvl 4"s is all you are hearing when ppl seem to be forgeting 0.0 er's have lvl 5"s that they can do i mean ive got lvl 4 nd 5 missions in lo sec and 0.0 that i cant go do beccause i dont want to go there and do them because i dont want to lose a 300 mil t2 fitted bs if you want lvl 4 "s in o.o tthen they need to move some lvl 5 "s to high sec for us mission runners to do if its that bad out there then leave come to high sec run a crap load of missions make your isk then go back stop complaining about it you went to o.o on your own knowing there was nothing to do out there so its your fault dont get me wrong there should be lvl 4 missions out there for yallto do but if they nerf lvl 4 missions to 0.0 and leave us misson runners hear in high sec with only lvl 3 to lvl 1 i will cancal my subsciption to eve why dont you complain to them about just putting lvl 4 missions out there so that way you have lvl 4 missions out there and lvl 4 missins in high sec there problem solved
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Reangorette Bianie
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Posted - 2008.12.01 17:05:00 -
[63]
Originally by: TheEndofTheWorld
Edited by: TheEndofTheWorld on 01/12/2008 13:16:27
This topic has nothing to do with lvl4, missions or complexes. I genuinely wonder why this thread was moved... it is all about 0.0 players.
0.0 players blame lvl4s for being carebears, yet in the end, 0.0 is hardly the cold harsh space it should be. 0.0 alliances are nearly immune to small gang roaming and the only way to force people to fight is to bring mega blobs and shoot poses(very fun) and that does NOT DESTROY them financially, they just pack up their stuff and escape and keep 90%+ of their assets, possibly even retake the station in future OR just call your 10000 friends and blob up as the defenders have plenty of time to play with the defense mechanisms.
nerf highsec lvl4s AND(!) nerf
1. local
2. outposts (make them destructible or damageable)
3. undo capital hp boosts
4. remove strontium from poses (might need a few other gameplay changes as well, to stop dread/bs blobs from killing towers too fast)
Here, here. Time for an end to nul sec babying! and time to see them as "regressive."
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Lysianna
Celestial Janissaries
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.12.02 20:36:00 -
[64]
One thing people forget though... We fought to get these systems under our control. We conquered and now enforce a rule on them. We have to police them, monitor and ensure the safety of citizens.
You don't just go in 0.0 sec and claim a system your home... You waste alot of ISK, fight alot of wars and the up keep requires more then 2 or 3 missions per night. We're talking trillions of ISK here. Constant devotion and work...
So for the people living in 0.0, understand that they work very hard to keep their space like that. IF they can't survive a small roaming gang then they can't hold a sov on a sys. Now if we're defending our system, we're not making ISK, where burning it in order to survive one more day. In empire, you can spend 30 weeks doing missions without any consequences. In 0.0, if everyone just ratted around, we would get our butt kicked pretty damn fast.
We earned the right to have easy rats to kill :)
The folks that randomly go in low sec to hunt well they are at risk. It's NBSI pretty much everywhere in EVE. So they deserve the ISK as much as you do in empire.
________________________________________________
Lysianna Hazumason
Celestial Janissaries
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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AtheistOfDoom
|
Posted - 2008.12.03 00:48:00 -
[65]
Originally by: techzer0
And to keep the mods happy by not one word posting... OP fails. Hard.
seriously. HARD
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Killer Gandry
Caldari
Red Horizon Inc
|
Posted - 2008.12.03 12:05:00 -
[66]
Edited by: Killer Gandry on 03/12/2008 12:04:49
Originally by: Lysianna
One thing people forget though... We fought to get these systems under our control.
Beg to differ, more then 50% of the people posting stuff like that haven't been playing during the phase this space got fought for, they joined way after that or just after that and are hardly in a position to blur out stuff like that.
About the whole lvl 4 issue I can be quit short.
Everyone pays for their account and everyone wants his or her own thing to do, some in 0.0, some in low sec and some want to fly in high sec.
None of them should get punished for doing the things they do just because another group cries wolf.
Everyone wants to play EVE to have some passtime from real life and to have some fun but to shout to get someone his or her specific part of the game to get nerfed because you think it's not fair you are actually asking for diminishing of another players game enjoyment.
And earning the rights for easy rats to kill, some get that by dilligent work, some by joining after the hard part is done.
Same applies for lvl 4 missions in some way.
The first deadspace missions were something completely new a few years ago and there were people at the frontlines figuring out tactics and setups which now other people use.
Do lvl 4's get easier over time? Yes they do
Does ratting in Sov 0.0 space get easier the harsher you brought it under your control? Yes it does.
So hop off of the bandwagon about nerfing if you have no clue at all what your actually asking about.
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Lysianna
Celestial Janissaries
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.12.03 14:32:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Lysianna on 03/12/2008 14:33:11
edited... pointless to reply.
________________________________________________
Lysianna Hazumason
Celestial Janissaries
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Tasko Pal
Heron Corporation
|
Posted - 2008.12.05 05:14:00 -
[68]
Edited by: Tasko Pal on 05/12/2008 05:15:02
Originally by: Killer Gandry
Edited by: Killer Gandry on 03/12/2008 12:04:49
Originally by: Lysianna
One thing people forget though... We fought to get these systems under our control.
Beg to differ, more then 50% of the people posting stuff like that haven't been playing during the phase this space got fought for, they joined way after that or just after that and are hardly in a position to blur out stuff like that.
Sorry, don't buy it. Someone keeps the space safe and it takes a lot of work that you ignore. I think a better solution is to move level 4's to low sec and pirate the hell out of the carebears so that risk in line with reward for level 4 missions.  More seriously, not much of anything whined about here is going to change and it's a bit annoying that some troll thinks it's cute to play devil's advocate with an issue that won't go away.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
|
Posted - 2008.12.05 08:42:00 -
[69]
highsec agents can support 100s of players, 0.0 ratting can support what, 2-3 at a time per system? and a bunch of 0.0 has rats that are of the quality that running level 4s would definitely be a better use of time.
as for reward, level 4s are better imo. although I was living out of a pos, with not the best logistics system in place for collecting loot. that and level 4s give lp.
now If I could get consistent officer/faction spawns
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Trigos Trilobi
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.12.05 09:46:00 -
[70]
To keep with the spirit of the game, missions need to be made into a contested instead of infinite resource.
Say, agents offer a limited list of missions, each removed from the list once someone accepts them. At certain intervals, based on agent quality, the agent adds a new mission to his list (perhaps up to some maximum). The mission reward increases the longer it takes until someone accepts the mission.
Suddenly the system rewards smart and diligent players instead of afk dual boxing, there's a pvp element introduced both in finding the agents with good rewards before someone else does and the sort of auction ('hmm pick this mission now for 10m or wait until it's 15m and risk someone else picking it') and of course a whole new ship/fit considerations (bs for fast completion times or something more agile to cut down the time spent moving from agent to agent) and new trading opportunities since loot scatters around more.
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Lord Zoran
House of Tempers
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Posted - 2008.12.05 13:24:00 -
[71]
pffftt....
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chatgris
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Posted - 2008.12.05 13:30:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Trigos Trilobi
To keep with the spirit of the game, missions need to be made into a contested instead of infinite resource.
Say, agents offer a limited list of missions, each removed from the list once someone accepts them. At certain intervals, based on agent quality, the agent adds a new mission to his list (perhaps up to some maximum). The mission reward increases the longer it takes until someone accepts the mission.
Suddenly the system rewards smart and diligent players instead of afk dual boxing, there's a pvp element introduced both in finding the agents with good rewards before someone else does and the sort of auction ('hmm pick this mission now for 10m or wait until it's 15m and risk someone else picking it') and of course a whole new ship/fit considerations (bs for fast completion times or something more agile to cut down the time spent moving from agent to agent) and new trading opportunities since loot scatters around more.
No no no no! If you have to do something to missions, please nerf the rewards instead. I PvE because when I have a few precious spare hours, I can jump right in, blow stuff up, have fun, and leave (with my one account! no scout alts needed). No hassle, no time spent twiddling my thumbs flying around trying to find a mission (and by the time I do, I might have to log off).
That being said, (being a pretty hardcore carebear), I don't think 0.0 or high sec need a nerf.
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