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Bohr
   |
Posted - 2004.07.13 14:18:00 -
[121]
 Originally by: Gerome Doutrande
Every safespot should be able to be reached by hunters within 10 minutes. Class dismissed, thank you. 
Now why would i even consider making a safespot?
|
Bohr
|
Posted - 2004.07.13 14:18:00 -
[122]
Originally by: Gerome Doutrande
Every safespot should be able to be reached by hunters within 10 minutes. Class dismissed, thank you.
Now why would i even consider making a safespot?
|
Pychian Vanervi
|
Posted - 2004.07.13 14:22:00 -
[123]
Originally by: Bohr
Originally by: Gerome Doutrande
Every safespot should be able to be reached by hunters within 10 minutes. Class dismissed, thank you.
Now why would i even consider making a safespot?
I don't know maybe to hide your Battleship for 10 minute?
-----------------------------
It's all about the fortune and glory, fortune and glory!
|
Pychian Vanervi
|
Posted - 2004.07.13 14:22:00 -
[124]
Originally by: Bohr
Originally by: Gerome Doutrande
Every safespot should be able to be reached by hunters within 10 minutes. Class dismissed, thank you.
Now why would i even consider making a safespot?
I don't know maybe to hide your Battleship for 10 minute?
-----------------------------
It's all about the fortune and glory, fortune and glory!
|
Avon
|
Posted - 2004.07.13 14:23:00 -
[125]
As this has degenerated into personal insults I can only assume you have run out of valid points.
Therefore there is little point in continuting with this discussion.
______________________________________________
Never argue with idiots.
They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience. |
Avon
|
Posted - 2004.07.13 14:23:00 -
[126]
As this has degenerated into personal insults I can only assume you have run out of valid points.
Therefore there is little point in continuting with this discussion.
______________________________________________
Never argue with idiots.
They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience. |
Hematic
|
Posted - 2004.07.13 14:55:00 -
[127]
Quote:
If someone logs that means they warp away and dissapear. WHen they log back in they warp back to where they logged off. People are only going to be able to logoff near moons planets stations gates etc. There is going to be a higher risk in logging in. People who have patience will have a chance of catching people logging in. Which will make station and player owned structures more sought after the way it should be in my opinion. Logging in space will have a risk involved. There is no risk in safespotting. And saying there is a minimal chance of finding the safespot is very gracious considering how it is actually less then minimal. Almost nonexistant.
Please dont instul my intelligence here when you argue about safespots. You cant even deduct your own logics about the pro's and con's behind it. Get rid of safespots. Plain and simple. Its been said for the last eon. Get rid of dead space bookmarking if you arent going to make scanner worth anything.
Here's the deal you say that people who can't defend themselves in 0.0 deserve to die? Who are you again to make such a wide and assuming general statement like that? Oh right just another player like anyone else.
Ironic how you can't argue for their removal either. How about at least one 'actual' situation where safespots have ruined the concept of the game. Keep in mind that the example should outweigh all the pro's.
Pro's:
1) Provides a quick and easy way to go afk for a few.
2) Provides a rally point for an operation in the system in question.
3) Provides pinpoints to track down stuff in deep space. (meaning that their use helps to find other ones)
4) Provides a space to store secure cargos so they don't congest the normal warp-to areas.
5) Provides a space to store ammo for long-term engagments.
6) Provides a certain net of safety for 'near' defenseless mining parties.
7) Provides a triangulation point to be able to warp to objects from an alternate direction.
8) In the future would provide a relative safe area for mobile refinery and re-fitting.
What I think yours and others problem are with these safe spots is not in the safe spots. But rather in your inability overcome them. You feel you have them on the ropes or whatever and have an advantage and you can not exact that advantage. While I appreciate that could be frustrating it is part of online gaming that you can't always get what you want. (hmmm rolling stones anyone?)
A wise man once told me 'Intolerance is a sign of impotence' and you sure seem not able to tolerate their use.
|
Hematic
|
Posted - 2004.07.13 14:55:00 -
[128]
Quote:
If someone logs that means they warp away and dissapear. WHen they log back in they warp back to where they logged off. People are only going to be able to logoff near moons planets stations gates etc. There is going to be a higher risk in logging in. People who have patience will have a chance of catching people logging in. Which will make station and player owned structures more sought after the way it should be in my opinion. Logging in space will have a risk involved. There is no risk in safespotting. And saying there is a minimal chance of finding the safespot is very gracious considering how it is actually less then minimal. Almost nonexistant.
Please dont instul my intelligence here when you argue about safespots. You cant even deduct your own logics about the pro's and con's behind it. Get rid of safespots. Plain and simple. Its been said for the last eon. Get rid of dead space bookmarking if you arent going to make scanner worth anything.
Here's the deal you say that people who can't defend themselves in 0.0 deserve to die? Who are you again to make such a wide and assuming general statement like that? Oh right just another player like anyone else.
Ironic how you can't argue for their removal either. How about at least one 'actual' situation where safespots have ruined the concept of the game. Keep in mind that the example should outweigh all the pro's.
Pro's:
1) Provides a quick and easy way to go afk for a few.
2) Provides a rally point for an operation in the system in question.
3) Provides pinpoints to track down stuff in deep space. (meaning that their use helps to find other ones)
4) Provides a space to store secure cargos so they don't congest the normal warp-to areas.
5) Provides a space to store ammo for long-term engagments.
6) Provides a certain net of safety for 'near' defenseless mining parties.
7) Provides a triangulation point to be able to warp to objects from an alternate direction.
8) In the future would provide a relative safe area for mobile refinery and re-fitting.
What I think yours and others problem are with these safe spots is not in the safe spots. But rather in your inability overcome them. You feel you have them on the ropes or whatever and have an advantage and you can not exact that advantage. While I appreciate that could be frustrating it is part of online gaming that you can't always get what you want. (hmmm rolling stones anyone?)
A wise man once told me 'Intolerance is a sign of impotence' and you sure seem not able to tolerate their use.
|
Sinist
|
Posted - 2004.07.13 16:07:00 -
[129]
You mean
Pro's:
1) Allows me to run in the heat of battle never to be found again.
2) Allows my ship to escape death 80% of the time.
3) Allows me and my friends free reign in places normally we would get smacked around like little girls, all becase we warped in with inties and made a whole bunch of safe spots.
4) System camping is never so easy because well all we have to do is safespot whenever we are outnumbered. we lack the skill to dock or jump out of system or to have escape routes.
5) It supports Anti PvPism
6) There is nothing like safespotting and creating a big blob of unfindable ships to make all those cower in fear whent hey look at map, and to make them never travel there again!
7) Oh yeah ban PvP. LETS PLAY HIDE AND GO SEEK INSTEAD!
Case Closed. Already made my point I dont like it.
|
Sinist
|
Posted - 2004.07.13 16:07:00 -
[130]
You mean
Pro's:
1) Allows me to run in the heat of battle never to be found again.
2) Allows my ship to escape death 80% of the time.
3) Allows me and my friends free reign in places normally we would get smacked around like little girls, all becase we warped in with inties and made a whole bunch of safe spots.
4) System camping is never so easy because well all we have to do is safespot whenever we are outnumbered. we lack the skill to dock or jump out of system or to have escape routes.
5) It supports Anti PvPism
6) There is nothing like safespotting and creating a big blob of unfindable ships to make all those cower in fear whent hey look at map, and to make them never travel there again!
7) Oh yeah ban PvP. LETS PLAY HIDE AND GO SEEK INSTEAD!
Case Closed. Already made my point I dont like it.
|
Clevinger
|
Posted - 2004.07.13 16:19:00 -
[131]
Originally by: Hematic
Quote:
If someone logs that means they warp away and dissapear. WHen they log back in they warp back to where they logged off. People are only going to be able to logoff near moons planets stations gates etc. There is going to be a higher risk in logging in. People who have patience will have a chance of catching people logging in. Which will make station and player owned structures more sought after the way it should be in my opinion. Logging in space will have a risk involved. There is no risk in safespotting. And saying there is a minimal chance of finding the safespot is very gracious considering how it is actually less then minimal. Almost nonexistant.
Please dont instul my intelligence here when you argue about safespots. You cant even deduct your own logics about the pro's and con's behind it. Get rid of safespots. Plain and simple. Its been said for the last eon. Get rid of dead space bookmarking if you arent going to make scanner worth anything.
Here's the deal you say that people who can't defend themselves in 0.0 deserve to die? Who are you again to make such a wide and assuming general statement like that? Oh right just another player like anyone else.
Ironic how you can't argue for their removal either. How about at least one 'actual' situation where safespots have ruined the concept of the game. Keep in mind that the example should outweigh all the pro's.
Pro's:
1) Provides a quick and easy way to go afk for a few.
2) Provides a rally point for an operation in the system in question.
3) Provides pinpoints to track down stuff in deep space. (meaning that their use helps to find other ones)
4) Provides a space to store secure cargos so they don't congest the normal warp-to areas.
5) Provides a space to store ammo for long-term engagments.
6) Provides a certain net of safety for 'near' defenseless mining parties.
7) Provides a triangulation point to be able to warp to objects from an alternate direction.
8) In the future would provide a relative safe area for mobile refinery and re-fitting.
What I think yours and others problem are with these safe spots is not in the safe spots. But rather in your inability overcome them. You feel you have them on the ropes or whatever and have an advantage and you can not exact that advantage. While I appreciate that could be frustrating it is part of online gaming that you can't always get what you want. (hmmm rolling stones anyone?)
A wise man once told me 'Intolerance is a sign of impotence' and you sure seem not able to tolerate their use.
1) Log out then if you need to go away from the keyboard and are not able to dock in a station.
2,4,5 & 7) Generally people who are arguing against safespots aren't suggesting that you should remove the ability to bookmark places in dead space. What most people do want is a relatively simple and effective method of tracking down objects that are at dead space spots. Therefore you should still be able to do the things you mention in those points.
3) Properly made safe spots are not trackable through any method.
6) If you want to mine in 0.0 space then you need to have sufficient forces to ensure the security of the operation and not rely on weaknesses and oversights in the game mechanics. Eve is a non-consensual P v.P combat game in 0.0 space. If people aren't willing to adapt to the challenges and problems that poses then go back to empire or find another game.
8) There are going to be sentry guns introduced along with other equipment to help corps protect their POSs. I just don't see fun or challenge in being able to deploy POSs at unreachable dead space areas.
|
Clevinger
|
Posted - 2004.07.13 16:19:00 -
[132]
Originally by: Hematic
Quote:
If someone logs that means they warp away and dissapear. WHen they log back in they warp back to where they logged off. People are only going to be able to logoff near moons planets stations gates etc. There is going to be a higher risk in logging in. People who have patience will have a chance of catching people logging in. Which will make station and player owned structures more sought after the way it should be in my opinion. Logging in space will have a risk involved. There is no risk in safespotting. And saying there is a minimal chance of finding the safespot is very gracious considering how it is actually less then minimal. Almost nonexistant.
Please dont instul my intelligence here when you argue about safespots. You cant even deduct your own logics about the pro's and con's behind it. Get rid of safespots. Plain and simple. Its been said for the last eon. Get rid of dead space bookmarking if you arent going to make scanner worth anything.
Here's the deal you say that people who can't defend themselves in 0.0 deserve to die? Who are you again to make such a wide and assuming general statement like that? Oh right just another player like anyone else.
Ironic how you can't argue for their removal either. How about at least one 'actual' situation where safespots have ruined the concept of the game. Keep in mind that the example should outweigh all the pro's.
Pro's:
1) Provides a quick and easy way to go afk for a few.
2) Provides a rally point for an operation in the system in question.
3) Provides pinpoints to track down stuff in deep space. (meaning that their use helps to find other ones)
4) Provides a space to store secure cargos so they don't congest the normal warp-to areas.
5) Provides a space to store ammo for long-term engagments.
6) Provides a certain net of safety for 'near' defenseless mining parties.
7) Provides a triangulation point to be able to warp to objects from an alternate direction.
8) In the future would provide a relative safe area for mobile refinery and re-fitting.
What I think yours and others problem are with these safe spots is not in the safe spots. But rather in your inability overcome them. You feel you have them on the ropes or whatever and have an advantage and you can not exact that advantage. While I appreciate that could be frustrating it is part of online gaming that you can't always get what you want. (hmmm rolling stones anyone?)
A wise man once told me 'Intolerance is a sign of impotence' and you sure seem not able to tolerate their use.
1) Log out then if you need to go away from the keyboard and are not able to dock in a station.
2,4,5 & 7) Generally people who are arguing against safespots aren't suggesting that you should remove the ability to bookmark places in dead space. What most people do want is a relatively simple and effective method of tracking down objects that are at dead space spots. Therefore you should still be able to do the things you mention in those points.
3) Properly made safe spots are not trackable through any method.
6) If you want to mine in 0.0 space then you need to have sufficient forces to ensure the security of the operation and not rely on weaknesses and oversights in the game mechanics. Eve is a non-consensual P v.P combat game in 0.0 space. If people aren't willing to adapt to the challenges and problems that poses then go back to empire or find another game.
8) There are going to be sentry guns introduced along with other equipment to help corps protect their POSs. I just don't see fun or challenge in being able to deploy POSs at unreachable dead space areas.
|
Pathfinda75
|
Posted - 2004.07.13 16:33:00 -
[133]
Yup....remove safespots.
Then drop the pirate ratings "open season" down from -5.0 to -2.0. Sorry, but once you hit -2.0 you've picked your career path.
Will that happen? 
Until then leave safespots alone.
|
Pathfinda75
|
Posted - 2004.07.13 16:33:00 -
[134]
Yup....remove safespots.
Then drop the pirate ratings "open season" down from -5.0 to -2.0. Sorry, but once you hit -2.0 you've picked your career path.
Will that happen?
Until then leave safespots alone.
|
Avon
|
Posted - 2004.07.13 16:59:00 -
[135]
The point I am trying to make is that getting rid of safespots will do nothing. All it will mean is will people who would use a safespot will just log instead.
You still can't fight them.
You are going to be just as unhappy if people log, and you'll be back here *****ing about that.
If you have a system locked down properly it doesn't matter if people log or use a safespot, they won't get out.
If you can't secure a system properly then you really shouldn't advertise the fact here.
______________________________________________
Never argue with idiots.
They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience. |
Avon
|
Posted - 2004.07.13 16:59:00 -
[136]
The point I am trying to make is that getting rid of safespots will do nothing. All it will mean is will people who would use a safespot will just log instead.
You still can't fight them.
You are going to be just as unhappy if people log, and you'll be back here *****ing about that.
If you have a system locked down properly it doesn't matter if people log or use a safespot, they won't get out.
If you can't secure a system properly then you really shouldn't advertise the fact here.
______________________________________________
Never argue with idiots.
They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience. |
Sinist
|
Posted - 2004.07.13 17:14:00 -
[137]
Please try and see the logic. There will be greater chance of killing people without safespots. In the example of a camped system at least if a person is logged on we know to look at moons, belts gates or stations etc. We dont have to cover millions of square misles of space going 500km/s which would take about 500 years.
When you are camping for example and 10 ships warp into system, instead of warping into deadspace to avoid being killed you either have to goto the station if there is one and dock, or goto a moon etc. and either hide or logout. At least now the one's who were suppsoed to win have a better chance of trakcing you or cutting off your route of escape. GASP NOT TACTICS. NO. That would be Bad. Down with PvP right? Cmon please. For the good of the game stop arguiing.
Besides you need to start getting good at defending moons and gates because when Shiva comes, the majority of the combat will be attacking and defending moons. Not playing warp tag with fleets 10 time syour size from safespot to enemy to safespot to enemy. And one day you might be in a situation where your enemy goes into deadspace and camps out in a system you want to take over. You would want them to fight right? Take away their mechanics inw hich they can avoid the fight. Make system conquering viable.
|
Sinist
|
Posted - 2004.07.13 17:14:00 -
[138]
Please try and see the logic. There will be greater chance of killing people without safespots. In the example of a camped system at least if a person is logged on we know to look at moons, belts gates or stations etc. We dont have to cover millions of square misles of space going 500km/s which would take about 500 years.
When you are camping for example and 10 ships warp into system, instead of warping into deadspace to avoid being killed you either have to goto the station if there is one and dock, or goto a moon etc. and either hide or logout. At least now the one's who were suppsoed to win have a better chance of trakcing you or cutting off your route of escape. GASP NOT TACTICS. NO. That would be Bad. Down with PvP right? Cmon please. For the good of the game stop arguiing.
Besides you need to start getting good at defending moons and gates because when Shiva comes, the majority of the combat will be attacking and defending moons. Not playing warp tag with fleets 10 time syour size from safespot to enemy to safespot to enemy. And one day you might be in a situation where your enemy goes into deadspace and camps out in a system you want to take over. You would want them to fight right? Take away their mechanics inw hich they can avoid the fight. Make system conquering viable.
|
Lims Kragma
|
Posted - 2004.07.13 17:24:00 -
[139]
ALL safespots can be found within a couple of hours... it's just a question of wether its worth going to find it. Nuff said.
2004.09.07 00:12:19combatYour True Sansha Tachyon Beam Laser perfectly strikes Medium Secure Container [MASS], wrecking for 1685.3 damage.
Your True Sansha Tachyon Beam Laser perfectly strikes Medium Secure Container [MASS], wrecking for 1685.3 damage. |
Lims Kragma
|
Posted - 2004.07.13 17:24:00 -
[140]
ALL safespots can be found within a couple of hours... it's just a question of wether its worth going to find it. Nuff said.
2004.09.07 00:12:19combatYour True Sansha Tachyon Beam Laser perfectly strikes Medium Secure Container [MASS], wrecking for 1685.3 damage.
Your True Sansha Tachyon Beam Laser perfectly strikes Medium Secure Container [MASS], wrecking for 1685.3 damage. |
Earthan
|
Posted - 2004.07.13 17:29:00 -
[141]
I really really dont see how the below solution could hurt anyone beside making the game more fun:
1-keep safespots.
2- Bring ways that can track any safespot within 5 minutes max.
What we get is:
1- You still can escape from a combat and not be followed immediately.
2-You still can log off before the enemy gets you.
3- You still can survey a system with enemy forces by warping from safespot to safespot, moving all time.But you got to move and there is risk.
3- No more lame siting at safesopt in system with 50 enemy ships with no risk.
Imho these are good solutions, maybe not solving all issues but making the game better.
Stars, stars like dust, all around me.... |
Earthan
|
Posted - 2004.07.13 17:29:00 -
[142]
I really really dont see how the below solution could hurt anyone beside making the game more fun:
1-keep safespots.
2- Bring ways that can track any safespot within 5 minutes max.
What we get is:
1- You still can escape from a combat and not be followed immediately.
2-You still can log off before the enemy gets you.
3- You still can survey a system with enemy forces by warping from safespot to safespot, moving all time.But you got to move and there is risk.
3- No more lame siting at safesopt in system with 50 enemy ships with no risk.
Imho these are good solutions, maybe not solving all issues but making the game better.
Stars, stars like dust, all around me.... |
Earthan
|
Posted - 2004.07.13 17:30:00 -
[143]
Originally by: Lims Kragma
ALL safespots can be found within a couple of hours... it's just a question of wether its worth going to find it. Nuff said.
Thats great track a safespot 3 hours just to see you r enemy log out.Great idea.
Stars, stars like dust, all around me.... |
Earthan
|
Posted - 2004.07.13 17:30:00 -
[144]
Originally by: Lims Kragma
ALL safespots can be found within a couple of hours... it's just a question of wether its worth going to find it. Nuff said.
Thats great track a safespot 3 hours just to see you r enemy log out.Great idea.
Stars, stars like dust, all around me.... |
Joshua Calvert
|
Posted - 2004.07.13 17:32:00 -
[145]
Originally by: Earthan
I really really dont see how the below solution could hurt anyone beside making the game more fun:
1-keep safespots.
2- Bring ways that can track any safespot within 5 minutes max.
What we get is:
1- You still can escape from a combat and not be followed immediately.
2-You still can log off before the enemy gets you.
3- You still can survey a system with enemy forces by warping from safespot to safespot, moving all time.But you got to move and there is risk.
3- No more lame siting at safesopt in system with 50 enemy ships with no risk.
Imho these are good solutions, maybe not solving all issues but making the game better.
People will just take option 2, every single time.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Joshua Calvert
|
Posted - 2004.07.13 17:32:00 -
[146]
Originally by: Earthan
I really really dont see how the below solution could hurt anyone beside making the game more fun:
1-keep safespots.
2- Bring ways that can track any safespot within 5 minutes max.
What we get is:
1- You still can escape from a combat and not be followed immediately.
2-You still can log off before the enemy gets you.
3- You still can survey a system with enemy forces by warping from safespot to safespot, moving all time.But you got to move and there is risk.
3- No more lame siting at safesopt in system with 50 enemy ships with no risk.
Imho these are good solutions, maybe not solving all issues but making the game better.
People will just take option 2, every single time.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Clevinger
|
Posted - 2004.07.13 17:42:00 -
[147]
Originally by: Avon
The point I am trying to make is that getting rid of safespots will do nothing. All it will mean is will people who would use a safespot will just log instead.
You still can't fight them.
You are going to be just as unhappy if people log, and you'll be back here *****ing about that.
If you have a system locked down properly it doesn't matter if people log or use a safespot, they won't get out.
If you can't secure a system properly then you really shouldn't advertise the fact here.
Safespots and logging out to avoid combat both need to be addressed. Oveur has in fact made a blog today addressing problems caused by the current log in/log out tactics: http://myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp.
|
Clevinger
|
Posted - 2004.07.13 17:42:00 -
[148]
Originally by: Avon
The point I am trying to make is that getting rid of safespots will do nothing. All it will mean is will people who would use a safespot will just log instead.
You still can't fight them.
You are going to be just as unhappy if people log, and you'll be back here *****ing about that.
If you have a system locked down properly it doesn't matter if people log or use a safespot, they won't get out.
If you can't secure a system properly then you really shouldn't advertise the fact here.
Safespots and logging out to avoid combat both need to be addressed. Oveur has in fact made a blog today addressing problems caused by the current log in/log out tactics: http://myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp.
|
Mr nStuff
|
Posted - 2004.07.13 17:58:00 -
[149]
Originally by: Sinist
And if CCP are the ones who invented CNTRL + Space function then CCP are the ones who can disable it. In your world programming isnt reversible though huh...
Check this out. Now this guy wants to get rid of the ability to stop and cancel warp.
BTW:.. Remove safespots, people will just warp to moons and cloak. Then what will be your new argument? Please tell...
Space is vast.. Losing track of a ship is very viable.. In the end CCP will please everybody.. That means they will most likely ALWAYS have some way of allowing a player in a system w/o a station, some form of protection or place to hide affectively.
Safespots are the equivalent of logging out. Sorta.. Except that you get to stay online, change your skills, evemail people, talk smack in local, ect.
áSince there is a block option. I will never ever see your argument about safespots. Since the player could just log off anyways..
Deal... What is it you guys say.. Err.. Stop fricken whining already..
5 R&D Agents, 10months, Zero BPO Offers..
Onboard navigational [Planetary Avoidance] computer.
My account will be suspended at the end of the current play period.
Expires on 19. September 2004 |
Mr nStuff
|
Posted - 2004.07.13 17:58:00 -
[150]
Originally by: Sinist
And if CCP are the ones who invented CNTRL + Space function then CCP are the ones who can disable it. In your world programming isnt reversible though huh...
Check this out. Now this guy wants to get rid of the ability to stop and cancel warp.
BTW:.. Remove safespots, people will just warp to moons and cloak. Then what will be your new argument? Please tell...
Space is vast.. Losing track of a ship is very viable.. In the end CCP will please everybody.. That means they will most likely ALWAYS have some way of allowing a player in a system w/o a station, some form of protection or place to hide affectively.
Safespots are the equivalent of logging out. Sorta.. Except that you get to stay online, change your skills, evemail people, talk smack in local, ect.
áSince there is a block option. I will never ever see your argument about safespots. Since the player could just log off anyways..
Deal... What is it you guys say.. Err.. Stop fricken whining already..
5 R&D Agents, 10months, Zero BPO Offers..
Onboard navigational [Planetary Avoidance] computer.
My account will be suspended at the end of the current play period.
Expires on 19. September 2004 |
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