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Verx Interis Amarr Modicus Dementis	Posted - 2008.12.02 17:36:00 - [1] After being in FW for a while, I came to realize one thing. It doesn't actually give money. There's the FW missions but the only ones that give any decent ISK require you to take a BS/CS/HAC/BC through 10-15 jumps of hostile lowsec. Not a good idea. Basically, there's no way to get money from being in the militia aside from methods that you don't need the militia for (mining alt, missions..). So what I propose: Bounties for the NPC's in hostiles plexes that are payed by the faction to the militia members. Meaning that only members of the Amarr or Caldari militia get bounties on Minmatar or Gallente NPCs. Likewise, only the Minmatar and Gallente get bounties from Amarr or Caldari NPCs. This prevents people from farming their own faction's plexes. I know they drop tags, but between collecting them and dividing the money, it becomes a huge hassle and isn't worth it. They don't even have to be large bounties, 50% of what a pirate NPC with similar strength would give would work fine. But it'd help in a lot of ways. Before someone tells me that you don't usually kill NPCs when you're plexing, well that's because there's almost no reason once you get the frigates and can keep speedtanking.. If they provided money that wasn't such a pain to get, then people would probably be killing the NPC's. -- Your bad loan management perfectly strikes the stock market, wrecking for -777.68 points.
ArmyOfMe 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.12.02 17:37:00 - [2] no, faction warfare is for pvp, not for making isk. if you want to make isk in FW then kill the other players and take the loot Originally by: deadmaus Because by the time we had calmed Plague down after he heard BoB were back in the vicinity it was too late to do anything
Verx Interis Amarr Modicus Dementis	Posted - 2008.12.02 17:43:00 - [3] Originally by: ArmyOfMe no, faction warfare is for pvp, not for making isk. if you want to make isk in FW then kill the other players and take the loot Very few people are actually able to live off loot drops alone. Never said it was for making ISK only, in fact I wonder what all the damn freeloaders in militia chat are doing since you can't make any more ISK in the militia. Basically, you have an extra risk (more things shooting at you) and no real reward for it. Kinda like lowsec. hmm. But in 0.0, for example, you have extra risk, the PvP and threat of attack, but you have nice juicy rats and Arkanor and stuff to make up for it. In FW you have a lot more people in lowsec after you and you're restricted to half of the current hisec, but you get no benefit from it except the extra targets. Most of the people who live in 0.0 do it for the PvP, but if rats were removed from 0.0 on the grounds that "You're in 0.0 to PvP anyway" I'm sure there would be uproar. -- Your bad loan management perfectly strikes the stock market, wrecking for -777.68 points.
Acedias Infusion.	Posted - 2008.12.02 17:44:00 - [4] Kill players Don't die Loot like a ninja
Verx Interis Amarr Modicus Dementis	Posted - 2008.12.02 17:50:00 - [5] Originally by: Acedias Kill players Don't die Loot like a ninja I could just go into any lowsec or 0.0 and do that without being in the Militia, and I wouldn't be restricted from going into 8 or 9 regions. -- Your bad loan management perfectly strikes the stock market, wrecking for -777.68 points.
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.12.02 18:09:00 - [6] Edited by: An Anarchyyt on 02/12/2008 18:09:34 Originally by: Verx Interis Originally by: Acedias Kill players Don't die Loot like a ninja I could just go into any lowsec or 0.0 and do that without being in the Militia, and I wouldn't be restricted from going into 8 or 9 regions. Okay, so then do that. But instead you decided to whine on the forums. Good show. Also ,saying "most of the people in 0.0 are there for the PvP" is a gross misstatement and only further underscores your inability to make a decent thread. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
NoNah	Posted - 2008.12.02 18:13:00 - [7] Originally by: Verx Interis Originally by: Acedias Kill players Don't die Loot like a ninja I could just go into any lowsec or 0.0 and do that without being in the Militia, and I wouldn't be restricted from going into 8 or 9 regions. Actually, doing that in lowsec will sooner rather than later mean that you can't go into 16 or 18 regions(using your figures). Parrots, commence! Postcount: 439835
Rainson Arrvax Minmatar Selectus Pravus Lupus	Posted - 2008.12.02 18:54:00 - [8] I tend to agree with you Verx. They aren't making it easy for a lot of people to join in on the fun. For a lot of folks replacing 100m isk isn't a big deal but for me it is. I don't think anyone is saying that FW should be a money making replacement (to mining, manufacturing, mission running, or piracy) but there needs to be some kind of way to take the edge off. As I've said before, I can't think of any other game where the price for failure in PvP is so high.
Verx Interis Amarr Modicus Dementis	Posted - 2008.12.02 19:12:00 - [9] Edited by: Verx Interis on 02/12/2008 19:16:43 Originally by: An Anarchyyt Edited by: An Anarchyyt on 02/12/2008 18:09:34 Originally by: Verx Interis Originally by: Acedias Kill players Don't die Loot like a ninja I could just go into any lowsec or 0.0 and do that without being in the Militia, and I wouldn't be restricted from going into 8 or 9 regions. Okay, so then do that. But instead you decided to whine on the forums. Good show. Also ,saying "most of the people in 0.0 are there for the PvP" is a gross misstatement and only further underscores your inability to make a decent thread. When I've been in 0.0 almost everyone there is there for the PvP. A few people renting time/space, but the majority of pilots are there cause they want to pew pew. If you don't want to pew pew you never have to leave hisec and can do just fine. Unless you want to PvP of course. I was making a point that something is broken. Have you actually been in the Militia? When plexing, you have to sit around for 20-30 minutes doing nothing useful. The PvP provides, most likely, less At the same time, saying "Go do this instead" is a really stupid reply. Not everyone plays the game for the best option possible. Some people want to do something a certian way and would prefer if it didn't have broken aspects to it. Now let me ask again, have you ever actually been in one of the Militias? Originally by: NoNah Originally by: Verx Interis Originally by: Acedias Kill players Don't die Loot like a ninja I could just go into any lowsec or 0.0 and do that without being in the Militia, and I wouldn't be restricted from going into 8 or 9 regions. Actually, doing that in lowsec will sooner rather than later mean that you can't go into 16 or 18 regions(using your figures). True.. But it's possible to control sec status to some extent. No matter how many NPC's I kill, the Minmatar Navy won't let me in. Besides, I think sec status, as it is, has some issues as well but I've never been blinky so I can't say much. The issues are kind of related. Both are ways that give you risk and limitation without giving much reward in return. Originally by: Rainson Arrvax Edited by: Rainson Arrvax on 02/12/2008 19:06:29 I tend to agree with you Verx. They aren't making it easy for a lot of people to join in on the fun. For a lot of folks replacing 100m isk isn't a big deal but for me it is. I don't think anyone is saying that FW should be a money making replacement (to mining, manufacturing, mission running, or piracy) but there needs to be some kind of way to take the edge off. I came back to EVE specifically for the FW, after an almost 3 year absence. Its been a month now and I've had to decide whether to spend that time training PvP or money making. I chose PvP only to find that I couldn't keep up with the money flow. Now I'm faced with another month of training money making and another to improve my PvP points. I'm not sure I want to do that. I left EVE to begin with because I was bored. Now I need to spend more time hoping that it will be fun in the end? As I've said before, I can't think of any other game where the price for failure in PvP is so high. What's wrong with your ship, sans fittings, being replaced by your Faction? Make these replacements non-transferable if you want. But give me some ability to participate and some reason to fly a 200m isk special-purpose ship. Wasn't really what I suggested. Most corps replace ships anyway so the Faction doing it would be a bit silly. Just having bounties for plex rats would go a long way, and is all I'm asking for. -- Your bad loan management perfectly strikes the stock market, wrecking for -777.68 points.
Raimo Gallente Wrath of Fenris	Posted - 2008.12.02 19:46:00 - [10] Edited by: Raimo on 02/12/2008 19:47:28 TBH FW having some LP/ ISK rewards for both PVP (make it so that killing one particular pilot can only benefit you once a day to discourage alt farming) and the PVE would be great in getting masses back to it... The rewards could also scale down with gang size to do double- duty of discouraging blobbing. Looting in FW is a little harder than the traditional pirate life, I think. Also, many folks fly T1 fit T1 ships because this very dilemma exists so there is a lot of crap loot... Most people pewing in 0.0 do it for region control, I gather, and that translates to ISK income to them or their corp. The FW LP/ ISK rewards would serve as a justifiable alternative to that, and I think even some would be great, it does not have to compare to LVL4 running but be a nice little extra on the side. ---
Po3tank Amarr Basgerin Pirate	Posted - 2008.12.02 19:48:00 - [11] First things first, make the pirate life actuly be profitable..becuse everyone knows pirates make enuff money off loot right?? Your signature is too large. Please resize it to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal
Armoured C Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2008.12.02 19:54:00 - [12] it not missions it a easy PVP focus you still have mission to do your isk making with in your home system ... you should have a good enough standing with the race in question to do level 4's FW is only a opening to PVP not isk making
Po3tank Amarr Basgerin Pirate	Posted - 2008.12.02 20:00:00 - [13] Quote: FW is only a opening to PVP not isk making neather is actul PVP...... Your signature is too large. Please resize it to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal
Armoured C Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2008.12.02 20:05:00 - [14] so why do people want FW to make isk aswell =/ or have i lost the point and it buried somewhere in the small forest of troll hell ?
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2008.12.02 20:21:00 - [15] Edited by: Crumplecorn on 02/12/2008 20:21:28 While the first two sentences of the OP made me laugh and brought any number of, eh, concise responses to mind, the idea of being able to get some (some) ISK out of the existing PvE elements of FW is a good one I think. No harm in making money from PvE, especially if you have to risk fights to do it. It provides a real motivation for people to go out and plex. Of course, a proper motivation, like some advantage to capturing systems, would be better. - DesuSigs
Cyprus Black Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.12.02 20:26:00 - [16] I say yes to this. Game content without rewards soon falls flat on its face. ___________________________________________________ The Escapist: EvE Online video review.
Jacque Custeau Knights of the Minmatar Republic	Posted - 2008.12.02 21:12:00 - [17] I guess everyone has their own problem with FW, mine is mainly the lack of fun. The faction that spams the most stabbed cloaked frigs in plexes seems to have the upper hand. Some changes I would like to see 1. More restrictions on ship types in plexes: If a plex allows battelships and command ships, then only those two ship types should be allowed. Frigates should not be allowed to go into these larger class plexes and speed tank the spawn, only to warp out quickly when someone shows up. 2. Factions should be able to contest sov in systems only one constellation at a time. Right now the 'front' is far too vast for some factions. Make it like Risk (the board game), in that one faction can only contest systems in constellations adjacent to ones they have already captured. This will focus existing forces to a more meaningful theatre of operations instead of running 14 jumps deep into enemy space to contest a system or 14 jumps in my space trying to undo the damage done. 3. The bunkers need more HP, and should have something like reinforced mode. Ok I was taking the **** with the last one, but if the first two are done I would return to FW. -------------------
Vall Kor Minmatar Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2008.12.02 21:45:00 - [18] I wished there was some reward (besides the loot). Maybe LP for ships/fittings instead of money. Or have the faction your fighting for replace lost ships with similar ships..Like insurance or something. Mission running is boring (nothing like running the SAME mission 10 times in a row), but it pays the bills. "Forbid a man to think for himself or to act for himself and you may add the joy of piracy and the zest of smuggling to his life." Elbert Hubbard
Eluhaf	Posted - 2008.12.02 21:47:00 - [19] The sad thing is that all these suggestions were made as soon as FW was sprung onto the players on the test server, and have been continued as long as FW has been in exisitance while the only change to FW was to make ranks harder to obtain (really the only rational reason to plex). Yet CCP continues to maintain that FW is central to its development efforts. In addition to ISK rewards should make it so you have to kill the NPCs to capture the point (end the stabbed, cloaked frig plexers). To make fights more viable, each faction should have a seperate gate and warp in so the first into the plex doesn't have such a huge advantage. I would also argue that plexs should have warp scrambling batteries/NPCs. If plexes are meant to be the PVE content that drives PVP, they you need to have incentives and mechanisms get people in, and hold them in for a fight. CCP keeps saying they want to encourage small gang PVP, yet FW mechanisms either encourage 1-2 frig gangs that intentionally avoid PVP or blobs and/or pirates (that would have been in low sec anyways) that aren't concerned with the plexs so are really just in FW for the free war dec.\ But of ocurse as all threads on FW, this will be ignored as the devs clearly understand the game better than the players, and "PVP for lulz" is clearly enough of a reason for them.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2008.12.02 21:58:00 - [20] Originally by: Eluhaf plexs should have warp scrambling batteries I like this. - DesuSigs
soldieroffortune 258 Gallente Trinity Council.	Posted - 2008.12.02 22:12:00 - [21] Originally by: Verx Interis After being in FW for a while, I came to realize one thing. It doesn't actually give money. There's the FW missions but the only ones that give any decent ISK require you to take a BS/CS/HAC/BC through 10-15 jumps of hostile lowsec. Not a good idea. Basically, there's no way to get money from being in the militia aside from methods that you don't need the militia for (mining alt, missions..). So what I propose: Bounties for the NPC's in hostiles plexes that are payed by the faction to the militia members. Meaning that only members of the Amarr or Caldari militia get bounties on Minmatar or Gallente NPCs. Likewise, only the Minmatar and Gallente get bounties from Amarr or Caldari NPCs. This prevents people from farming their own faction's plexes. I know they drop tags, but between collecting them and dividing the money, it becomes a huge hassle and isn't worth it. They don't even have to be large bounties, 50% of what a pirate NPC with similar strength would give would work fine. But it'd help in a lot of ways. Before someone tells me that you don't usually kill NPCs when you're plexing, well that's because there's almost no reason once you get the frigates and can keep speedtanking.. If they provided money that wasn't such a pain to get, then people would probably be killing the NPC's. ok, plain and simple op, FW wasnt designed for making money, but by defintion, an easy introduction into pvp, and a little tool for the roleplayers (kind of like myself) to have a little fun as well if anything, they need to add more aesthetics to FW, not like making moeny, but actually give non monetary benefits for FW, and making their lives easier if they take that system for example denying station services to enemy milita having NPC assitance at the control bunker on a spawn timer or seomthing a few other things, like no sentry aggro for attacking neutrals, still taking a sec hit, but just not having to deal with the sentries, when you have to kill that stupid npc noob corp alt that you konw is spying things of THAT nature are what they need to add, and i may re-join it, as im sure many others would as well just do what i did when i was in the milita, run missions for two or three days to make a bit of isk, then go pew pew with the isk you made, rinse, repeat Originally by: soldieroffortune 258 "*Eve is about making yourself richer while making the other guy poorer*"
Tatianna	Posted - 2008.12.02 22:13:00 - [22] This thread needs to get moved to game suggestions.
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2008.12.02 22:29:00 - [23] I had always envisioned FW to be a device where by players would be PAID by the various factions and mercenaries to go to war for them against their opposing factions. I thought it would be epic and grand and have far reaching impact on the galactic map as systems changed hands and the galaxy was reshaped with tens of thousands of players flocking to FW to make ISK and wage war. Instead we have noobie PVP lite. Lame. Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam. Death of Virtue is Recruiting
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.12.02 22:44:00 - [24] Jebus just fit out a crap load of insured t1 fit cruisers and have at it. [Vexor, fw suicide t1 fit] Magnetic Field Stabilizer I Magnetic Field Stabilizer I Tracking Enhancer I Tracking Enhancer I Warp Disruptor I Stasis Webifier I 10MN MicroWarpdrive I 200mm Railgun I, Iron Charge M 200mm Railgun I, Iron Charge M 200mm Railgun I, Iron Charge M 200mm Railgun I, Iron Charge M [empty high slot] [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] Bouncer I x3 Warrior I x5 250 dps at 45km and will make you isk with platinum insurance in some markets. (same for all the other ships) also, [Celestis, fw suicide ew t1 fit] Ballistic Control System I Ballistic Control System I Tracking Enhancer I Remote Sensor Dampener I, Targeting Range Dampening Remote Sensor Dampener I, Targeting Range Dampening Warp Disruptor I Stasis Webifier I 10MN MicroWarpdrive I Heavy Missile Launcher I, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher I, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile 200mm Railgun I, Iron Charge M 200mm Railgun I, Iron Charge M [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] Valkyrie I x3 Warrior I x2 150dps at 40km further more, [Omen, fw suicide t1 fit] Tracking Enhancer I Tracking Enhancer I Basic Tracking Enhancer Heat Sink I Heat Sink I 10MN MicroWarpdrive I Warp Disruptor I Stasis Webifier I Focused Medium Beam Laser I, Microwave M Focused Medium Beam Laser I, Microwave M Focused Medium Beam Laser I, Microwave M Focused Medium Beam Laser I, Microwave M Focused Medium Beam Laser I, Microwave M [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] Warrior II x3 136 dps at 38km in addition, [Arbitrator, fw ew suicide t1 fit] Tracking Enhancer I Tracking Enhancer I Ballistic Control System I Ballistic Control System I 10MN MicroWarpdrive I Warp Disruptor I Stasis Webifier I Tracking Disruptor I Heavy Beam Laser I, Microwave M Heavy Beam Laser I, Microwave M Heavy Missile Launcher I, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile [empty high slot] [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] Bouncer I x2 Valkyrie I x5 192dps at 42km continuing on, [Blackbird, fw suicide t1 fit] Signal Distortion Amplifier I Signal Distortion Amplifier I ECM - Multispectral Jammer I ECM - Multispectral Jammer I ECM - Multispectral Jammer I ECM - Multispectral Jammer I ECM - Multispectral Jammer I 10MN MicroWarpdrive I Heavy Missile Launcher I, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher I, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher I, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile 200mm Railgun I, Iron Charge M [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] 70dps at 78km with the ew all the way out to 90km rolling along, [Caracal, fw suicide t1 fit] Ballistic Control System I Ballistic Control System I 10MN MicroWarpdrive I Warp Disruptor I Stasis Webifier I Target Painter I Remote Sensor Dampener I, Targeting Range Dampening Heavy Missile Launcher I, Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher I, Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher I, Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher I, Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher I, Scourge Heavy Missile [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] Warrior I x2 172dps at 110km will it ever end? [Moa, fw suicide t1 fit] Magnetic Field Stabilizer I Magnetic Field Stabilizer I Magnetic Field Stabilizer I Power Diagnostic System I 10MN MicroWarpdrive I Warp Disruptor I Stasis Webifier I Target Painter I Heavy Missile Launcher I, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher I, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile 200mm Railgun I, Tungsten Charge M 200mm Railgun I, Tungsten Charge M 200mm Railgun I, Tungsten Charge M 200mm Railgun I, Tungsten Charge M [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] Warrior I x3 138dps at 44km Now go run a level 4 mission and pew pew the rest of the night. inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan
Verx Interis Amarr Modicus Dementis	Posted - 2008.12.02 23:25:00 - [25] Edited by: Verx Interis on 02/12/2008 23:29:08 Originally by: Zeba words I'd rather fly what I want to fly, not suicide ship just because its the only economical option. The basic issue here is that we have a 10-30 minute period where any number of people are vulnerable in multiple ways and get no real reward for it. Killing the NPC's would be a nice addition. AFAIK you can't be cloaked while capping a plex but it'd end the soloing ceptors and stuff like that. Besides, if you get a good price in bounty payout from the plexes, people would be more willing to kill the NPC's. Basically it comes down to the fact that there's a game mechanic with risk and penalties and no reward. Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: Eluhaf plexs should have warp scrambling batteries I like this. Yes. Originally by: Jacque Custeau I guess everyone has their own problem with FW, mine is mainly the lack of fun. The faction that spams the most stabbed cloaked frigs in plexes seems to have the upper hand. Some changes I would like to see 1. More restrictions on ship types in plexes: If a plex allows battelships and command ships, then only those two ship types should be allowed. Frigates should not be allowed to go into these larger class plexes and speed tank the spawn, only to warp out quickly when someone shows up. 2. Factions should be able to contest sov in systems only one constellation at a time. Right now the 'front' is far too vast for some factions. Make it like Risk (the board game), in that one faction can only contest systems in constellations adjacent to ones they have already captured. This will focus existing forces to a more meaningful theatre of operations instead of running 14 jumps deep into enemy space to contest a system or 14 jumps in my space trying to undo the damage done. 3. The bunkers need more HP, and should have something like reinforced mode. Ok I was taking the **** with the last one, but if the first two are done I would return to FW. No on 1, maybe on 2, and yes on 3. This is semi-unrelated but.. Can we PLEASE have a militia mail? Really whats so hard about it to implement? -- Your bad loan management perfectly strikes the stock market, wrecking for -777.68 points.
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.12.03 00:04:00 - [26] Originally by: Verx Interis Edited by: Verx Interis on 02/12/2008 23:29:08 Originally by: Zeba words I'd rather fly what I want to fly, not suicide ship just because its the only economical option. The basic issue here is that we have a 10-30 minute period where any number of people are vulnerable in multiple ways and get no real reward for it. Killing the NPC's would be a nice addition. AFAIK you can't be cloaked while capping a plex but it'd end the soloing ceptors and stuff like that. Besides, if you get a good price in bounty payout from the plexes, people would be more willing to kill the NPC's. Basically it comes down to the fact that there's a game mechanic with risk and penalties and no reward. Was just listing those ships specifically for their usefulness to a mixed sp fw gang and the fact that you make isk when you go boom in them instead of losing it. By all means do fly what you want even up to t2 if you wish but don't be suprised if the rewards don't keep up with a t2 budget. Remember that fw is moastly about attracting mission running newbs for some basic pew pewing and not rich established pvpers from low sec or 0.0 trying to turn it into some form of 'proper' sov based fleet action with the attendant expense. Hell if fw was changed to be profitable then you would see all the newbs getting shut out as the big boys fight over the isk. Saying that I would like to see some sweeping changes to the gameplay mechanics but that has nothing to do with how much isk is to be made from fw. inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan
Kessiaan Minmatar Army of One	Posted - 2008.12.03 00:14:00 - [27] I've also been in FW a while, and I can agree with the OP's sentiments, though not his methods. Personally I feel any reward from FW should be tied to occupancy and not usable outside of FW - there's already many threads on this so I won't go into huge amounts of detail, but you get the idea. The only exception I could maybe see is LP rewards for plexing. But that could cause it's own set of issues since if you split the LP rewards it discourages the kind of impromptu fleet action that (IMO) makes plexing fun atm, but if you don't you risk devauling the LPs. Either way I don't think yet another ISK faucet in Eve is the way to go. You can make some ISK on the side doing FW just ratting in 0.1 systems when the plexes and/or targets are slow, and if you salvage the plex wrecks you can make a bit of ISK that way. And whoever said small ships should be disallowed from bigger plexes 'cause speed tanking obviously hasn't done a plex post-QR.
Mr Ignitious R.E.C.O.N. The Firm.	Posted - 2008.12.03 01:50:00 - [28] All this thread is telling me is that carebears are finally realizing that even in a structured "sanctioned" manner, PvP is not a livable profession and just screams to me that PvP and piracy should get a little boost in lucrativeness. More loot dropped maybe. I was in support of a more legitimate ransoming system because as is now most just say "you'd kill me anyways." I miss Garmon =(
Verx Interis Amarr Modicus Dementis	Posted - 2008.12.03 02:18:00 - [29] Edited by: Verx Interis on 03/12/2008 02:19:15 Originally by: Mr Ignitious All this thread is telling me is that carebears are finally realizing that even in a structured "sanctioned" manner, PvP is not a livable profession and just screams to me that PvP and piracy should get a little boost in lucrativeness. More loot dropped maybe. I was in support of a more legitimate ransoming system because as is now most just say "you'd kill me anyways." Well I'd like to think I'm not a carebear and my year of living in lowsec/0.0 and pew pewing should be a testimony to that. Tbh I don't think true carebears are going to ever understand PvP. Real carebears will be too afraid of losing ISK to join FW. Industrial players who aren't carebears (many of those) most likely live in a 0.0 alliance and fight for it as well as doing their industry stuff. But yes I do agree that PvP alone at this point is not enough to live off of. The issue here extends to the issue surrounding Piracy, in the fact that loot/salvage alone doesn't really give anything worthwhile, and if you Yarr for any serious length of time you're going to be cut off from hisec, just like if you FW you get cut off from half of hisec. -- Your bad loan management perfectly strikes the stock market, wrecking for -777.68 points.
Titan Pilot Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.12.03 03:13:00 - [30] Verx raises a very interesting point. The only way FW is going to attract and retain good quality PVP is to make it lucrative. Most fights are blobs on a gate. Half of FW fleets end up bickering about who gets what loot. Then you have ppl just in FW so they can ninja rat the wrecks without being agro'd Bottom line is ship kills should pay a LP bonus.

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