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Switching to Amarr ships, Worth it?

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Flybye Rex Tech Industries	Posted - 2008.12.04 00:20:00 - [1] So I've done plenty of months using Caldari ships in missions, but I really like how the Amarr ships look. I started going through the laser crystals and realized, the only damage they offer are EM and Thermal. Well daum. If I do any missions in Caldari space, am I seriously going to be that handicapped against the Guristas using lasers?
Snake Doctor MacroIntel United Corporations Against Macros	Posted - 2008.12.04 00:24:00 - [2] They are only worth it if you can fly T2 and shoot T2. You can get an Aba to permatank just about anything with decent skills, but you really want those t2 large if you're going to have any fun at all. The AF's are nice, but again, you need the T2 guns.
Digital Solaris	Posted - 2008.12.04 00:24:00 - [3] Well, it really depends on if you have have the skills to really support a sudden switch? Throw up your API or skill sheet. :)
Lab Technician2	Posted - 2008.12.04 00:27:00 - [4] Edited by: Lab Technician2 on 04/12/2008 00:28:08 Naa I really don't. I was thinking of slowly training laser skills, and finally jumping into an Amarr ship. I just really didn't know how far I have to go to be effective, or if its even worth it against Guristas. So if T2 is the answer, then so be it. :) Ooops. Wrong Char.
5pinDizzy Amarr Umpteenth Podding	Posted - 2008.12.04 00:29:00 - [5] Edited by: 5pinDizzy on 04/12/2008 00:33:48 At one time I'd have said that higher end Amarr ships like the Abaddon can do every mission around as fast as a standard Raven as you so pointed out but would be considerably slower on Guristas as you say while blitzing Blood Raider missions. With the not so long ago EM resistance nerf across the board and the very recent Caldari missile changes though. Amarr will now likely be doing every mission faster than all Caldari ships now except being about 20% slower on Guristas missions. Golem is probably still king DPS wise with the right fitting but It's going to be spending longer then any Amarr ship to take out frigates of which there can be as many as 3 dozen or more on some missions. Amarr will absolutely blitz Sansha and Bloodraider missions at high skill levels, but it's a lot of train, talking over 8 million + skillpoints in gunnery all specced towards lasers.
Xiaodown coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.12.04 00:35:00 - [6] Switching from Caldari to Amarr is somewhat difficult if you don't have the armor skills and secondary gunnery skills to support it. If you're galente spec'd it's not that hard, and if you're minnie, it's still difficult, but caldari to amarr is probably the hardest switch. It's tough to say, though. On the one hand, you really need to specialize to be good in the game, get your level V skills. On the other hand... if you don't cross train, you risk looking like a complete tard when your one specialization gets nerfed. But, for me - I'm training my gallente char to be amarr as well, so I'll have one char that's Caldari / Minnie and one char that's Gallente / Amarr, so i'm recession proof. Also, you might want to look at the amarr boats that don't rely on lasers, mainly I'm thinking about the curse. You could slip into a curse with a couple of months of training if you already can use, say, jammers and cerberii. ~X -- Sig under construction.
Flybye Rex Tech Industries	Posted - 2008.12.04 00:35:00 - [7] Wow, I only have about 800k skillpoints in missiles, and with the Raven, I find myself doing decently in LVL4s. I would need over 8mil in gunnery to do just as well with lasers against Guristas?
Xiaodown coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.12.04 00:38:00 - [8] Originally by: Flybye Wow, I only have about 800k skillpoints in missiles, and with the Raven, I find myself doing decently in LVL4s. I would need over 8mil in gunnery to do just as well with lasers against Guristas? Oh. If you only have 800k skillpoints in missiles, you can do basically anything you want; you're at the beginning of your career. -- Sig under construction.
5pinDizzy Amarr Umpteenth Podding	Posted - 2008.12.04 00:41:00 - [9] Edited by: 5pinDizzy on 04/12/2008 00:41:08 Originally by: Flybye Wow, I only have about 800k skillpoints in missiles, and with the Raven, I find myself doing decently in LVL4s. I would need over 8mil in gunnery to do just as well with lasers against Guristas? I checked the figures and I'd say 6 mill bare minimum in gunnery, without inclusion of support or armor skills or anything.
Grarr Dexx Amarr Paxton Industries Paxton Federation	Posted - 2008.12.04 00:44:00 - [10] Originally by: 5pinDizzy Edited by: 5pinDizzy on 04/12/2008 00:41:08 Originally by: Flybye Wow, I only have about 800k skillpoints in missiles, and with the Raven, I find myself doing decently in LVL4s. I would need over 8mil in gunnery to do just as well with lasers against Guristas? I checked the figures and I'd say 6 mill bare minimum in gunnery, without inclusion of support or armor skills or anything. That's overshooting it. 2-3 million DEDICATED in gunnery is off to a good start, also a million in mechanic and atleast 2 million in the cap department. -----
Flybye Rex Tech Industries	Posted - 2008.12.04 00:46:00 - [11] Wow again. Well, I guess I have plenty of time to train for lasers then. Ya, I only got to 800k in missiles just to comfortably do lvl4s. I figured I'd slap 1 pulse on the Raven to help out with friggies. I guess lil by little the better he does, the more confident I will be in using lasers.
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.12.04 00:49:00 - [12] This is why Caldari are still considered easy mode especially as you can still get away with nub missile skills on a pve Raven. Long range: Cruise II Tach II Short range: Siege II Megapulse II However the return on maxing your sp investment clearly goes to Amarr. inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan
Dantes Revenge Caldari	Posted - 2008.12.04 01:08:00 - [13] The main problem with energy weapons is that they are quite skill intensive. On the other hand, they can be good at dealing out damage as long as EM/Thermal resists on the enemy are close to normal. If you are up against someone with high EM/Thermal resists specifically tanked to combat Amarr, you have a tough job on your hands. On the plus side for Amarr ships, you armour tank so having that base EM means you have a good start resist instead of starting at 0% with a shield tank. Abaddon and Apocalypse are great tankers but Energy weapons require high fitting reqs so a good tank means crappy firepower and vice versa. You've probably been used to both firepower and tank with a Raven but be prepared to sacrifice one for the other if you go to Amarr ships. Since the demise of the missiles, the Abaddon has increased in status as a good mission runners ship providing the gunnery skills are up to using energy weapons with any real decency. Gallente are still the favored mission runners ship though, they have a good tank and hybrid weapons don't need so many skills to be effective. As a caldari, you've probably already trained a certain amount of hybrid skills anyway. It might be easier for you to go over to Gallente ships until your energy weapon and armor tank skills are up to it. While flying Gallente, you'll be training armor tanking skills and then train Energy weapon skills before going to Amarr ships. By the end of it, you'll have the skills to use 4 of the 6 different weapons including the missiles you use now, both types of tank and three out of the 4 race's ships. It would only require projectile weapons and Minmatar ships skills to complete the set. -- There's a simple difference between kinky and perverted. Kinky is using a feather to get her in the mood. Perverted is using the whole chicken. All this has happened before and will happen again
Ania Tsaluan	Posted - 2008.12.04 01:23:00 - [14] A nice as Amarr ships are, they are, as everyone has said, skill intensive. In order to efficiently fly them, T2 guns, tank, cap modules are required. As are all of you cap skill at at least lv4, along with the associative skill to the ship (Amarr frigate/cruiser/battleship etc.) Be prepared to not have cap at first with an Abaddon, due to its lack of cap reduction on energy weapons. Apocalypse is a lot more forgiving, but loses some DPS. The abby/apoc debate is a thousand times done, so onward.nIf you do plan on getting into Amarr ship, be patient, and make sure to have good skills. Oh, and good luck, you'll need it
Flybye Rex Tech Industries	Posted - 2008.12.04 01:32:00 - [15] Edited by: Flybye on 04/12/2008 01:33:03 Hehe thanks. I'm sure I'll be pleased in the end. I can already "fly" a few of em. Just haven't made good use of em.
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2008.12.04 03:11:00 - [16] Amarr are really great. I'd train them up asap. Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam. Death of Virtue is Recruiting
Mikalya Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2008.12.04 03:34:00 - [17] I've got 4.9M in gunnery skills, everything on lasers and support. It still takes forever to kill Dire Guri cruiser-sized ships with Mega-pulses, even though I hit with every shot. Or at least it feels like it. Missiles are a lot easier than lasers if you are against Guristas and easier against guns vs. almost everything But I love the ships and decided 2 years ago I was going to be Amarr so I refuse to fly Caldari crap. I mean they are SO ugly....
Atomos Darksun Quantum Industries RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.12.04 03:46:00 - [18] Get an Ishtar. You'll never look back. Originally by: Amoxin My vent is talking to me in a devil voice... CONVERT TO LINKIFICATION! http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameb
Dechmeister	Posted - 2008.12.04 04:50:00 - [19] Originally by: Mikalya I've got 4.9M in gunnery skills, everything on lasers and support. It still takes forever to kill Dire Guri cruiser-sized ships with Mega-pulses, even though I hit with every shot. Or at least it feels like it. Missiles are a lot easier than lasers if you are against Guristas and easier against guns vs. almost everything But I love the ships and decided 2 years ago I was going to be Amarr so I refuse to fly Caldari crap. I mean they are SO ugly.... T2 cruisers now take forever for a purely KIN spewing cruise missile boat as well, the only thing that eats them for breakfast is my Domi al; maxed sentry damage & rigged Gardes II are pure evil lol (especially using 3x Omnis )
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.12.04 05:34:00 - [20] paladin/nightmare have damn near the best killspeed for missions.... that is unless you are shooting angels or gruistas (hmm maybe serpentis). I think there are enough mercs/drones/blood/sansha missions in caldari space that it is not a bad idea to train amarr, but for sure I would not want to only have amarr for the other missions.
Zephyr Rengate Caldari Wrath of Fenris	Posted - 2008.12.04 05:44:00 - [21] Originally by: Atomos Darksun Get an Ishtar. You'll never look back. huh?
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.12.04 05:48:00 - [22] Originally by: Zephyr Rengate Originally by: Atomos Darksun Get an Ishtar. You'll never look back. huh? ishtar has some great drone dps, but meh, it isn't hard to pump out more damage, and boy do I like moar damage, in something else, like a paladin, raven, domi, typhoon, ect.
SpaceBall 7 Heaven's Avatars Void.	Posted - 2008.12.04 05:50:00 - [23] better start training now. long time no see flybye =)
Valan Gen Tec	Posted - 2008.12.04 07:28:00 - [24] I was speced for Amarr T2 before Caldari T2 even when it wasn't fashionable. Amarr have some awesome ships and have done for a long time. The Abaddon with a full slave set has a ridiculous tank. However I find it a pain in the ass and slow going against the wrong enemy for the reason you identified. With missiles you can still change out damage types. With decent medium drone skills missioning in a Raven is still lazy mode. /start sig I love old characters that post 'I've beeen playing the game four years' when I know their account has been sold on. /end sig
Phantom Slave Amarr JUDGE DREAD Inc. Tygris Alliance	Posted - 2008.12.04 07:30:00 - [25] If you're truly changing to Amarr because of how ships look, then welcome! Amarrian ship designs are the #1 reason I started playing Amarr, and the reason I'll never switch to anything else. Sure we can only do EM/Therm damage, but it doesn't stop us all too often in PvE. Takes a wee bit longer for some missions, but not a whole lot longer. Besides, you never have to reload your ammo (aside from T2 and faction crystals) and it only takes a couple of seconds to switch crystal type for range. I think the benefits equal out the drawbacks. ____________________ My main IS my alt. Confused yet?
Norwood Franskly Minmatar Fleet of the Damned Dark Trinity Alliance	Posted - 2008.12.04 07:35:00 - [26] A corp mate started Caldari trained Amarr, flies a Nightmare for missions, probably the best PVE ship in the game (I think it's faster then Golem). If you like the ships then go for it.
Valan Gen Tec	Posted - 2008.12.04 07:37:00 - [27] Originally by: Norwood Franskly A corp mate started Caldari trained Amarr, flies a Nightmare for missions, probably the best PVE ship in the game (I think it's faster then Golem). If you like the ships then go for it. Yeh a faction fitted Nightmare is awesome but you don't get to undock it without being ganked. I'm just getting some L4 agent access for industrial reasons and I have a Zealot at HAC lvl 5 steaming through lvl3s. /start sig I love old characters that post 'I've beeen playing the game four years' when I know their account has been sold on. /end sig
Cairn Metalhand Swedish Aerospace Inc G00DFELLAS	Posted - 2008.12.04 08:15:00 - [28] Go for it! As long as you don't give up halfway there with a bunch of half trained skills. Personally i maxed minmatar and then went for caldari (only 2-3 weeks for minmatar to cross) and im now working on Amarr. I think caldari is the worst race at crosstraining tho since they are pretty much the only shield tankers and missile spammers. Starting out with minmatar gives you the best of all worlds
Malcanis Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.12.04 08:45:00 - [29] Originally by: Xiaodown Switching from Caldari to Amarr is somewhat difficult if you don't have the armor skills and secondary gunnery skills to support it. If you're galente spec'd it's not that hard, and if you're minnie, it's still difficult, but caldari to amarr is probably the hardest switch. ~X For PvE, yes.Ironically, Caldari to Amarr for PvP is probably the easiest switch.
Malcanis Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.12.04 08:57:00 - [30] Originally by: Bellum Eternus Amarr are really great. I'd train them up asap. Yeah, if he starts now, he'll be done just in time for the whiners to get them nerfed.
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2008.12.04 09:08:00 - [31] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Bellum Eternus Amarr are really great. I'd train them up asap. Yeah, if he starts now, he'll be done just in time for the whiners to get them nerfed. If that happens, my plan will be complete. Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam. Death of Virtue is Recruiting
Sheriff Jones Amarr Clinical Experiment	Posted - 2008.12.04 09:16:00 - [32] Every ships(can i say it like that? ) have problems, it's not worth changing if you think you're heading for easy street. It takes training, learning, more training, more skills, more iskies, some more skills, some training and some learning to get them to work. But when they work... My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
Tippia Caldari Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2008.12.04 09:34:00 - [33] …of course, there is a second advantage to going from Caldari to Amarr: Sansha ships. No sig for me, thankyouverymuch.
Terianna Eri Amarr Scrutari	Posted - 2008.12.04 09:35:00 - [34] Amarr are really great, both for PVE and PVP. for PVP you can check other threads, and I'll say this about amarr PVE: Level 1 and 2 missions: These are pretty easy regardless of what ship you use, and if you really want to use an Amarr ship while doing these, I recommend the Arbitrator. The arbitrator, as a drone cruiser, actually can dish out damage of any type with its drone bay and it's in general a good ship. Level 3 missions: I can't think of an Amarr ship offhand that would do guristas / angel heavy lvl 3 missions easily, except maybe a HAM sacrilege, which somewhat lacks range. I ended up using a drake for all lvl 3 missions anyway, just for the range. (For laser-friendly level 3s, I hear Zealots clean up pretty well) Level 4 missions: Amarr actually have a few really great ships for lvl 4 missioning. As long as you're not against guristas or angels, an Apocalypse will burn through anything just fine with Pulse and it has the range to hit pretty much everything too. Pretty much needs T2 pulse for this though so that you can use Scorch. Some people have said that lasers aren't so good against Serpentis - I have found this to be inaccurate; lasers burn through them just fine, it just takes a teensy bit longer. Without T2 guns you can use an Apocalypse with beams (if you want to be careful) or an Abaddon with beams (if you want to gank tank missions), since the Abaddon puts out very nice damage with, say, modulated megabeams. Some people have said that they can do Angel missions in the above ships as well, as long as they're not too hard - low-bounty Angel BS melt to 900+ laser DPS pretty quickly, in any case. I've never bothered, since angel missions give me a reason to break out the Maelstrom. I'm not 100% sure about the resists on Guristas, but recently I tried bringing out a full gank Tachyon abaddon (with a corp mate to tank for me in a phobos) into a Mordus Headhunters, and it performed better than I could ever have guessed. Tachs just hit hard, if you have a ship that can support them... which brings us to the two very high-end Amarr mission boats, the Paladin and the Nightmare, both of which have the fitting and bonuses to make use of Tachyons. I can't yet fly these ships but given that my Tachyon abaddon melts everything and my Apocalypse tanks everything sufficiently well, combining the two ships via the Paladin seems like it'll be awesome. The Nightmare is basically the Paladin, except vertical, shield tanking, and without the looting bonuses. The above information applies mostly to missions against the factions lasers are traditionally weak against - angels, guristas, and to some extent serpentis. A well-skilled laser boat will tear through a sansha, blood raider, drone, or mercenary mission with hilarious speed. __________________________________ Originally by: Arthur Frayn How much to ruin all your holes, luv?
Valan Gen Tec	Posted - 2008.12.04 09:39:00 - [35] My path was basic Caldari basic Gallente (hybrids cross over) basic Amarr (armor tanking crossover) Advanced Amarr (missiles and electronics swap over) Advanced Caldari Advanced Gallente. Somewhere in there you train projectiles and all of a sudden you're fully Minmatar speced as well lol. Concentrate on core skills lets face it the difference in races is a ship type and gun type. HAC, Recon, Interceptors etc, Nav, engineering, electronics are generic and hence improve every ship you fly. It takes patience but suddenly you hit a sweet spot and everything becomes easier. /start sig I love old characters that post 'I've beeen playing the game four years' when I know their account has been sold on. /end sig
Will1892 Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.12.04 12:06:00 - [36] I am caldari and bought an amarr toon overpriced for three reasons: 1) The ships look really cool 2) I really wanted lasors and the toon had good gunnery skills 3) Amarr are really good for pvp AND pve (citing abaddon). Tbh I am very glad that I did. It will be a hard switch between caldari and amarr but its really worth it.
Dantes Revenge Caldari	Posted - 2008.12.04 12:23:00 - [37] Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton paladin/nightmare have damn near the best killspeed for missions.... that is unless you are shooting angels or gruistas (hmm maybe serpentis). I think there are enough mercs/drones/blood/sansha missions in caldari space that it is not a bad idea to train amarr, but for sure I would not want to only have amarr for the other missions. Paladdin are nice but almost useless against the Gisti BS. Lack of Kinetic damage means Gisti ships are hard to kill at best. Using a missile or blaster boat was about the only way to get around this but now, it's limited to blasters due to the missile nerfs if you want to complete the mission in any decent time frame. -- There's a simple difference between kinky and perverted. Kinky is using a feather to get her in the mood. Perverted is using the whole chicken. All this has happened before and will happen again
Sergeant Spot Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.12.04 13:49:00 - [38] Edited by: Sergeant Spot on 04/12/2008 13:50:47 Eventually cross training to a 2nd race is very worth it. Do NOT cross train to a new race to soon. But once you've got one down reasonably well, opening a 2nd is wise. Like many, I started using Caldari missile ships (back when plain old Tech 1 Kestrels could fire Cruise missiles, and assuming a missile could catch a target, it ALWAYS hit for full damage....). But even then, I saw the Nerf bat swinging around, so started training Amarr. This was long before the Rohk was even a dream, and then, as now, gun ships are prefered in PvP. If you are concerned that "My race sucks", you will always hate Eve, so quit now, and save yourself the pain. Play nice while you butcher each other.
NeoTheo Dark Materials	Posted - 2008.12.04 14:20:00 - [39] all is well in the world of the golden wang.
Flybye Rex Tech Industries	Posted - 2008.12.04 14:45:00 - [40] Thanks for all the responses, guys! Yes, I'm mostly considering Amarr due to their designs. The Raven has been a nice work horse, but will be nice to switch it up every once in a while to get a different feeling. And it's interesting that many have brought up the Nightmare, as it's one of the ships I'm considering for PvE since it makes a perfect cross over vehicle with shield and laser capability. Oh, and whats up Spaceball 7!!
Hyveres Caldari	Posted - 2008.12.04 14:58:00 - [41] If you come from caldari battleships your first stop should just be a nightmare while pushing up gunnery , then getting armour and cap skills on top for the true amarr ship as time passes. "Subtlety is a thing for philosophy, not combat. If you're going to kill someone, you might as well kill them a whole lot." - Vulcan Raven, The Last Days Of Foxhound
Ruciza Minmatar The Feminists	Posted - 2008.12.04 17:47:00 - [42] ... and then you notice that most people fly armor omni buffertanks, and that Minmatar exist.
Cobra Ball Caldari The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.	Posted - 2008.12.04 18:35:00 - [43] Edited by: Cobra Ball on 04/12/2008 18:37:43 Yeah, this character started her life as a caldari. I trainer her so she could run level 4s. But i love pvp and i realized that missles were meh for it. So I decided to train Amarr. I know, its FOTM but i love the way their ships look. That and i started training for it in May. Anyway, just to let you know, I started with Training T2 guns all the way up to large pulse/beams. That took me around 3 months alone. Next, i trained my armor skills, That took another month. Ofcourse its not just enough to get to T2. There are other support skills in gunnery, especially controlled burst that really need to be skilled. so that is a week or so to get them to IV Next, Amarr needs good cap skills to shine. So luckily, i had many of the engineering skills needed for that except energy management V - that took me another two weeks. After all that, you still can't fly a ship yet. So here comes trainig for frigates, cruisers, Battlecruiser and battleships. That will take quite a long time, expecially if you want to fly recons, interceptors, AF, or any other T2 ships. So my point is not to scare you away from cross training, just be aware that to fly another race well, you will be training a lot of stuff that won't give immediate results. Good luck
Terianna Eri Amarr Scrutari	Posted - 2008.12.04 18:47:00 - [44] Originally by: Ruciza ... and then you notice that most people fly armor omni buffertanks, and that Minmatar exist. Because flying ships with shield buffer and maybe a few resist mods is something people just don't do... ...also, Gallente/Amarr/Caldari T2 exists, and EM is kind of fantastically good against them. I've never had a problem with the damage output of my guns __________________________________ Originally by: Arthur Frayn How much to ruin all your holes, luv?
maralt Minmatar The seers of truth	Posted - 2008.12.04 18:53:00 - [45] Best dmg to range ratio in the game by a massive amount as far as BS are concerned and also the best anti small support ships = amaar ftw.
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.12.04 18:56:00 - [46] If you like how a ship looks/feels, then it is not a mistake to train for them. This is internet spaceships. Style is important. If however, you feel you should be switching because they are 'better', or 'popular' then this is an error. Chasing the 'best thing' is doomed to always be late. You will suffer against Guristas with lasers, but not as badly as you would against Angels. Ideally doing missions vs. Sanshas/Blood raiders is what you want. But you may actually find your amarr standings are ok if you have good Caldari standings. -- 249km locking?
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.12.04 20:27:00 - [47] Originally by: Terianna Eri Level 3 missions: I can't think of an Amarr ship offhand that would do guristas / angel heavy lvl 3 missions easily, except maybe a HAM sacrilege, which somewhat lacks range. I ended up using a drake for all lvl 3 missions anyway, just for the range. (For laser-friendly level 3s, I hear Zealots clean up pretty well) Actually, I've recently used a Zealot with much success in level 3 missions. The blistering gun firepower might not be as spectacular against guristas/angels as it is against sansa/blood/drones but it's more than enough to get the job done. The main difference I see is even with standard MF and 3 heat sinks it takes a second shot to down most frigates and perhaps 2 extra volleys to kill cruisers. It's a substantial increase in time required to run a mission but it's hardly damning. For level 4's though, pretty much the only option is to turn down the angels/guristas missions if you're flying a laser ship. Thanks to their incredibly high firepower output, an amarrian ship CAN run a level 4 mission against these rats but it's painfully slow going.
Katja Shade	Posted - 2008.12.04 20:34:00 - [48] Have Caldari, want Amarr? There is an obvious choice in a certain faction BS that makes exceptionally fine use of both skillsets.
Haradgrim Tyrell Corp INTERDICTION	Posted - 2008.12.04 20:34:00 - [49] if the only things you need to cross train are guns and the ship skills then I would do it. If you have no gunnery skills and no armor tanking skills (i.e. not even hull upgrades to V) then I would hold off until you do. -- Originally by: CCP Oveur Just donæt forget the reach-around.
Cheyenne Shadowborn Caldari Noob Much Inc.	Posted - 2008.12.04 20:35:00 - [50] Originally by: Sheriff Jones Every ships(can i say it like that? ) No --
Atomos Darksun Quantum Industries RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.12.04 21:51:00 - [51] Edited by: Atomos Darksun on 04/12/2008 21:51:38 Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton Originally by: Zephyr Rengate Originally by: Atomos Darksun Get an Ishtar. You'll never look back. huh? ishtar has some great drone dps, but meh, it isn't hard to pump out more damage, and boy do I like moar damage, in something else, like a paladin, raven, domi, typhoon, ect. There's doing damage, and then there's actually hitting things. Originally by: Amoxin My vent is talking to me in a devil voice... CONVERT TO LINKIFICATION! http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameb
Felix Dzerzhinsky Caldari Wreckless Abandon G00DFELLAS	Posted - 2008.12.04 21:56:00 - [52] Of you are only going to PvE - then no, its not worth it. If you plant to do pvp also, then yes, its worth working up the Amarr side of things ---- ECCM is a Counter-measure not a defense.
Stab Wounds Caldari State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.12.04 22:31:00 - [53] Amarr are currently FOTM and will mostly likely be nerfed so I wouldn't bother. Just stick to your race.
Elurilmar	Posted - 2008.12.04 22:43:00 - [54] Every single person who has said you need tech 2 lasers is full of steamy ****. I have gotten more killmails, along with missions, in my tech 1 fitted omen than any other ship. My second most recent kill, a drake. With none of your expensive tech 2 guns. Just get skills, they are better.
Reiisha Splint Eye Probabilities Inc. Dawn of Transcendence	Posted - 2008.12.04 23:50:00 - [55] Edited by: Reiisha on 04/12/2008 23:53:37 I'd have to object against the notion of "having" to use T2... Either modulated T1 or faction lasers, along with faction ammo will do the job just fine. For one, T2 lasers take a LOT more cap to fire. Also, faction ammo does pretty much the same damage as T2 ammo, and can hit further out, without any other penalty. The only thing pure T2 has over faction or named is slightly more damage, but i would think a couple thousand times before sacrificing nearly everything else - range, tracking, cap - for that. Oh, and people who use long range ammo, T1 or T2, should take a good look at their setup, because on Amarr ships it's simply not needed, unless you're insisting you have to use pulse. In which case... Meh, your loss. Oh, and i'm getting rather tired of the theorycrafters. A Tach Paladin will rip through any level 4. And unlike all the EFT warriors claiming otherwise, i've actually got practical experience proving it. Screw this crap with "oh god i can't break the tank on this gisti cruiser" EVE History Wiki
Noriko Sakai Gallente DC1 Coalition	Posted - 2008.12.05 00:07:00 - [56] If you are talkign about lvl 4 missions, Just get a Nighthawk in addition to your raven. Use raven on BS heavy missions and NH on mission with a lots more smaller ships than BS. Doing the above, I have notice it didn't take me any longer to do mission than before although I would drop in a TP or use precision Cruise on the Raven on some mission.
Presidio Minmatar Hug Nutz	Posted - 2008.12.05 00:15:00 - [57] I switched to amarr 4 years ago when Howitzers got nerfed. Never looked back. -
Felix Dzerzhinsky Caldari Wreckless Abandon G00DFELLAS	Posted - 2008.12.05 00:26:00 - [58] Originally by: Elurilmar Every single person who has said you need tech 2 lasers is full of steamy ****. I have gotten more killmails, along with missions, in my tech 1 fitted omen than any other ship. My second most recent kill, a drake. With none of your expensive tech 2 guns. Just get skills, they are better. you are so much more effective with T2 Zelots over a T1 Omen. . .I can't even beging to describe. I have on occation destroyed T1 ships on roaming ops. . .to reduce that bit of lag. T1 Amarr is unacceptable - infact, T1 anything is unacceptable unless its for a fitting reason. Its skills AND T2, not either or. ---- ECCM is a Counter-measure not a defense.
Endo Scrote Amarr Universal Moose Foundation	Posted - 2008.12.05 00:33:00 - [59] If you are Caldari spec'd the train large tachyons buy a Nightmare you already have shield skills You won't go wrong with that
Terianna Eri Amarr Scrutari	Posted - 2008.12.05 01:20:00 - [60] Originally by: Elurilmar Every single person who has said you need tech 2 lasers is full of steamy **. I have gotten more killmails, along with missions, in my tech 1 fitted omen than any other ship. My second most recent kill, a drake. With none of your expensive tech 2 guns. Just get skills, they are better. For PVE: Tech 1 beams will work, since you don't get much of a damage boost by upgrading to T2, and you don't need either form of T2 beam ammo in PVE (Gleam is just trash, and you don't need Aurora range). You'll probably want tech 2 pulse though if you use pulse in PVE, because you get the option to use Scorch against things that are annoying to chase down or are at range, and scorch deals very good damage. For PVP: I guess you could use tech 1... but if you're going with beams, you're probably sniping, which means that you'll want T2 for Aurora. Why couldn't you use tech 1 beams for close / mid-range combat? Well, you could, except for the following... If you intend to use Pulse lasers in PVP, train them up to T2. Scorch is amazing and some would say that it's the best reason to train Amarr - myself included. __________________________________ Originally by:** Arthur Frayn How much to ruin all your holes, luv?
Corstaad Minmatar Vardr ok Lidskjalv	Posted - 2008.12.05 01:54:00 - [61] Unless you really like running support or just a sniper fit BS get out of caldari. Every race is viable and I might add minny is a good mixer with caldari.
Elurilmar	Posted - 2008.12.05 12:18:00 - [62] As a matter of fact I was using tech 1 quads. Imagine that. I bet your mind is exploding trying to figure out how it was successful without tech 2 everything with rigs and such. It is the quality of flying and a pilot's skills that can make or break a pvp battle.
GTC seller72	Posted - 2008.12.05 12:21:00 - [63] Edited by: GTC seller72 on 05/12/2008 12:21:55 Originally by: maralt Best dmg to range ratio in the game by a massive amount as far as BS are concerned and also the best anti small support ships = amaar ftw. If you already have good tertiary gunnery and ship skills training FOTM gunships is easy and highly productive. And its certainly better than spending your time whining about eve not being fair yada yada until its nerfed...... THIS.
Terianna Eri Amarr Scrutari	Posted - 2008.12.05 12:24:00 - [64] Originally by: Elurilmar As a matter of fact I was using tech 1 quads. Imagine that. I bet your mind is exploding trying to figure out how it was successful without tech 2 everything with rigs and such. It is the quality of flying and a pilot's skills that can make or break a pvp battle. I never said it couldn't work, but consider the following: If you're not sniping with beams, and going mid-range, you can get similar damage out of pulse with Scorch instead of beams with EG multifreq, and with pulse you have easier fitting, less cap use, and better tracking than with beams (assuming you're comparing similar gun classes- heavy pulse v. heavy beams for example). I don't use quad light beams much since I find focused medium pulse II to just be... well, better. FMP II fit really easily on a lot of ships so downgrading to quad light beams doesn't do me a lot of good. Yes, you can be successful with T1 beams, but I strongly recommend you (and all laserboat pilots) train for, and use, T2 pulse. Trust me on this - Scorch crystals are definitely worth training for. __________________________________ Originally by: Arthur Frayn How much to ruin all your holes, luv?
Misina Arlath Amarr	Posted - 2008.12.05 13:46:00 - [65] Originally by: Flybye So I've done plenty of months using Caldari ships in missions, but I really like how the Amarr ships look. I started going through the laser crystals and realized, the only damage they offer are EM and Thermal. Well daum. If I do any missions in Caldari space, am I seriously going to be that handicapped against the Guristas using lasers? coughFOTMcough Nuff said. -------------------------------------------------- "Every complex problem has a solution which is easy, neat and wrong!"
Hyveres Caldari	Posted - 2008.12.05 14:17:00 - [66] Tbh for PvE over time its worth getting the skills to fully utilize Golem , Paladin & Kronos. When you got all 3 you will be able to optimalize for any mission setting :) "Subtlety is a thing for philosophy, not combat. If you're going to kill someone, you might as well kill them a whole lot." - Vulcan Raven, The Last Days Of Foxhound
Talsha Talamar Amarr Nebula Rasa Holdings Nebula Rasa	Posted - 2008.12.05 20:42:00 - [67] For PVE use T1 Beams and maybe Pulse in selected missions and if flying an APOC. Do not bother with PVP before you have T2 Pulse, yet T2 small pulse take not that long to train at all and you wont want to use any of the T1 Amarr Cruisers with a T2 fitting in PVP unless you have T2 drones (arbitrator) or godly fitting skills (AWU 4+) (Omen) and in the last case probably not even then :) Crusader/Retribution are nice T2 frigates for lazer pew pew in gangs, and an Arbitrator could work well as support platform with ewar drones, TDs, remote repair units, even without t2 drones.
Wayward Hero Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2008.12.05 21:12:00 - [68] Every player who switches to Amarr is just putting another nail in the coffin. My advice, train for one of the close-contender runner-ups. Drone ships make very attractive mission-runners and potent small gang ships at the expense of having a more limited strength in larger fleet fights. A Domi with Dual Heavy Pulse or 350mm Rails makes a mean mission-runner, and those Gallente SP's still go towards other powerful, though arguably not the best, ships in other roles as well. If you train for the not-quite-the-best, you should be safe(ish) from rebalancing for at least 9-12 months. ___________________________________________ The Forgotten Children of EVE
maralt Minmatar The seers of truth	Posted - 2008.12.05 22:35:00 - [69] Edited by: maralt on 05/12/2008 22:38:13 Check out the dmg curve and dmg/range ratio of pulse lasers and then tell me that they are not worth training as FOTM compared to the other races.......the graph includes relative drone dmg as well but not drone travel time btw.
maralt Minmatar The seers of truth	Posted - 2008.12.05 22:36:00 - [70] Edited by: maralt on 05/12/2008 22:36:02 OOPS DOUBLE POST
Felix Dzerzhinsky Caldari Wreckless Abandon G00DFELLAS	Posted - 2008.12.05 22:43:00 - [71] Edited by: Felix Dzerzhinsky on 05/12/2008 22:46:08 Originally by: maralt Edited by: maralt on 05/12/2008 22:38:13 Check out the dmg curve and dmg/range ratio of pulse lasers and then tell me that they are not worth training as FOTM compared to the other races.......the graph includes relative drone dmg as well but not drone travel time btw. Please repost with the inclution of T2 Sentry Drones from a proper ishtar - and then we can talk - ok? oh, and please feel free to start a new thread about this if you feel a little shock. tyvm ---- ECCM is a Counter-measure not a defense.
maralt Minmatar The seers of truth	Posted - 2008.12.05 22:46:00 - [72] Edited by: maralt on 05/12/2008 22:46:30 Originally by: Felix Dzerzhinsky Please repost with the inclution of T2 Sentry Drones from a proper ishtar - and then we can talk - ok? An ishtar is a close range fitted plated BS?....are you sure?. And what is a "proper" ishtar?.
Felix Dzerzhinsky Caldari Wreckless Abandon G00DFELLAS	Posted - 2008.12.05 23:13:00 - [73] Garde II - max skills - setup is standard 'Sniper Hac'/w MWD setup. Optimal range: 42257.67 Falloff: 12000 tracking speed: 0.05071 damage mod: 8.60834 (t1 rigs - not t2 - this is a very realistic setup) RoF: 4 ammo thermal damage (not all are equal): 50 no other damage type. I can't be arsed to put it into whatever cool graph program you got there. Any more informations? (it changes very little for a Domi btw) ---- ECCM is a Counter-measure not a defense.
maralt Minmatar The seers of truth	Posted - 2008.12.05 23:28:00 - [74] Edited by: maralt on 05/12/2008 23:44:42 Originally by: Felix Dzerzhinsky Garde II - max skills - setup is standard 'Sniper Hac'/w MWD setup. Optimal range: 42257.67 Falloff: 12000 tracking speed: 0.05071 damage mod: 8.60834 (t1 rigs - not t2 - this is a very realistic setup) RoF: 4 ammo thermal damage (not all are equal): 50 no other damage type. I can't be arsed to put it into whatever cool graph program you got there. Any more informations? (it changes very little for a Domi btw) It is around 540 dps with max skills at 30km optimal 12km falloff from the drones i believe but i cannot do the graph.
Felix Dzerzhinsky Caldari Wreckless Abandon G00DFELLAS	Posted - 2008.12.06 00:59:00 - [75] I would also have liked to hav seen torps on that from a Raven. . . ---- ECCM is a Counter-measure not a defense.

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