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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Cheopis Amarr One Stop Mining Shop	Posted - 2008.12.04 13:55:00 - [1] If you see this and you choose to reply, then I thank you in advance. As Lead Game Designer, I believe the Market Discussions residents, new and old, could really use your input on a current series of discussions. I will try to make this neither too short, nor too long, and I will avoid using descriptions including the words piranha, Frankenstein, and 13-year-old-with-a-lawnmower. If you review the recent market discussions threads you will see there has been something of a civil war going on about just what the MD forum is, what it should be, how it should serve the forums, and whether it is appropriate to split the MD forum into a general market info forum and a high finance forum. I would like to hear your input. I am absolutely certain others wish to hear it as well. Do you believe that the impact of the out-of-game high stakes financial instruments market on the ingame experience of individual players and the player community as a whole warrants some special consideration in the forums, at least until such a time as CCP is able to implement a robust ingame high stakes financial market? I could go into a huge Wall of Text here arguing for my preferred side of this argument, of course. I could also make some sort of effort to put forth arguments for both sides, but I prefer to ask you to read through the "petition for an advanced market forum" thread and see both sides of the argument. I am quite firmly on one side, and cannot give enough credence to the arguments of the other side of the argument to be anything other than... umm, very biased. Thank You for your time.
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.12.04 13:57:00 - [2] First in yet another useless thread by someone proving to have no clue.
YouGotRipped Ewigkeit	Posted - 2008.12.04 14:00:00 - [3] Spam.
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.12.04 14:06:00 - [4] Originally by: YouGotRipped Spam. I know I've reported it as such. To the OP: You know over the past weeks or so I started developing some respect for you. That has been totally blown by this illogical campaign of yours. You lost. You were defeated before you even tried and that was apparent after the first page of responses. Making thread after thread after thread about it is just juvenile and petulant. Furthermore, I doubt you (or this issue) rate an official response from a developer. It might come, they are not quite sane imho, but don't fool yourself. Threads with the title "Open Letter to Dev" is as idiotic a way to open dialogue as has existed in the entirety of eve. In conclusion, in case you were wondering why you may have lost respect that you worked so hard gaining... read all of the above.
Cheopis Amarr One Stop Mining Shop	Posted - 2008.12.04 14:09:00 - [5] Edited by: Cheopis on 04/12/2008 14:10:31 Shar Tegral, and YouGotRipped. While you are welcome to comment, of course, I have learned to expect a little better of both of you, even when I do not agree with you. Even when you are wrong (you still owe me 20 mill Shar ) It is quite obvious that we cannot resolve this particular issue internally, and CCP Mitnal has indicated that things impacting the game itself are things he is not willing to comment on, so it's time to try to go outside the box, IMHO.
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.12.04 14:19:00 - [6] First, 20m sent though I haven't checked. Second, one of the things I learned whilst in the military is that there is a reason for the "chain of command". Most importantly it is to avoid chaos and confusion as well as to help people get the orders, or answers, they need. Sometimes one must go outside the chain, thus the reason for open door policies, however until you have exercised the proper channels till the point of extremism is reached... you are just making a drama bomb. One which will bring very little in the way of positive results. (the 20m not withstanding).
Cheopis Amarr One Stop Mining Shop	Posted - 2008.12.04 14:23:00 - [7] Originally by: Shar Tegral Originally by: YouGotRipped Spam. I know I've reported it as such. To the OP: You know over the past weeks or so I started developing some respect for you. That has been totally blown by this illogical campaign of yours. You lost. You were defeated before you even tried and that was apparent after the first page of responses. Making thread after thread after thread about it is just juvenile and petulant. Furthermore, I doubt you (or this issue) rate an official response from a developer. It might come, they are not quite sane imho, but don't fool yourself. Threads with the title "Open Letter to Dev" is as idiotic a way to open dialogue as has existed in the entirety of eve. In conclusion, in case you were wondering why you may have lost respect that you worked so hard gaining... read all of the above. If I have lost your respect for me, that does hurt to some degree. Everyone likes being respected. However in no way was I "working hard" to be respected. I was simply being me. If I have to lose your respect for me in order to keep my own self-respect healthy, then it's a sacrifice I am confortable making. I don't give up when I think I am right. Should this thread be closed, I suppose I will have to do some googling to find out where to send snailmail to.
cosmoray Cosmoray Construction	Posted - 2008.12.04 14:29:00 - [8] Cheopis, Its time to move on. If you want to help, start to educate the new people around here. Thats what I have tried (see new sticky). I have noticed in the last month a lot of new faces, and plenty of these people have had some good things to say. If you are upset with noobs doing random posts, don't reply. If you ignore them they will give up. Or if you need to reply point them to the stickies. MD will be fine, the new people will add value with new ideas. Move on. I personally think you are not doing yourself any favours with this. Explain how new customers will want to invest in any of your new ventures from now on. You are starting to come off as a whiner. Embrace the change!
Damien Jax Chaos Faction	Posted - 2008.12.04 14:34:00 - [9] Seriously. Are there that many new posts here every day that you can't keep up? So what if there are two discussions going on, filter out the ones you don't want to look at. I have a feeling a finance only forum will be about as dull as can be seeing the lack of posts concerning IPO's, bonds and whatever else that my go into that category.
Ricdic Caldari	Posted - 2008.12.04 14:44:00 - [10] Cheopsis I see what you are trying to do but you are adding to the spam by starting new threads about it every day. I suggest accepting Mitnals decision and the current workaround in place designed by Cosmo (new sticky)
Gawain Hill	Posted - 2008.12.04 14:59:00 - [11] http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=channel&channelID=3523 that's where you post ideas no need to send a letter to anyone although if you must I'm sure you'd find it on the "contact us" page that so many companies seem to have.
Cheopis Amarr One Stop Mining Shop	Posted - 2008.12.04 15:02:00 - [12] Originally by: cosmoray Cheopis, Its time to move on. If you want to help, start to educate the new people around here. Thats what I have tried (see new sticky). I have noticed in the last month a lot of new faces, and plenty of these people have had some good things to say. If you are upset with noobs doing random posts, don't reply. If you ignore them they will give up. Or if you need to reply point them to the stickies. MD will be fine, the new people will add value with new ideas. Move on. I personally think you are not doing yourself any favours with this. Explain how new customers will want to invest in any of your new ventures from now on. You are starting to come off as a whiner. Embrace the change! Since this looks as if it might devolve into more argument, let me be clear: 1) You will find if you look that I also assist the new people here. I will also continue to do so, regardless of what happens. 2) I fully support the existence of a channel devoted to general market discussions and market questions. I fully oppose having it integrated with the high stakes financials market. 3)I have not yet asked for investment on my own behalf, though when I first started posting here, I did explore that possibility. After recently beginning to increase my understanding of larger scale markets in EVE, I never will have any need for investments for personal projects. I work with One Stop Mining Shop because it pleases me to do so, and I fill a useful role within the organization. I am not indespensible to that organization, and should my presence within it become detrimental to the Shop and I am asked to leave, I will leave the Shop without hard feelings, and likely continue working with them anyway, if they wish, because I like them. I do not have a driving urge to make isk for isks sake, and can already easily afford anything I have a desire and use for within a reasonably short time. As mentioned above, we cannot resolve this internally. I think it's time to go outside the box and try to get someone involved who does have a responsibility to the game itself, rather than just the forums.

CCP Hammer	Posted - 2008.12.04 15:06:00 - [13] Managing forums is really up to the community team so I would leave it to them to decide if another section needs to be created. You did ask for my opinion though so I will give it to you. Based on a cursory glance at the front page of this forum it would seem that it doesn't even get enough posts to fill the front page. Other forum topics fill a few pages with threads a day. So if I was the community team and I was trying to figure out which topics need to be broken into new forums the market discussions forums wouldn't be at the top of my list. My rhetorical questions to you would be: are people really having a lot trouble following the dozen new threads a day or are people getting lost trying to find a place to discuss market issues (be they in-game or player created out-of-game)?

YouGotRipped Ewigkeit	Posted - 2008.12.04 15:12:00 - [14] Originally by: Cheopis Shar Tegral, and YouGotRipped. While you are welcome to comment, of course, I have learned to expect a little better of both of you [...] Perhaps the community would like to guess where someone with such a big mouth spent his time since char creation in 2005.03.07 05:26:00 Total posts 383 Posts in the last month or so - more than 300. Quite a sudden burst of activity don't you think? hahah Black Sun Empire

CCP Navigator C C P	Posted - 2008.12.04 15:16:00 - [15] Hammer is absolutely correct. Forum particpation in Market Discussions is light to moderate so adding additional forums at this time would be unnecessary. I would also add that you have an opportunity to educate and guide newer players on the ins and outs of the EVE Market while still holding your advanced market discussions within this forum. Navigator Senior Community Representative CCP Games, Email / Netfang

cosmoray Cosmoray Construction	Posted - 2008.12.04 15:23:00 - [16] Edited by: cosmoray on 04/12/2008 15:24:48 Good, 3 CCP guys have spoken (Mitnal in the other thread). Most of the regulars have spoken. The decision is made, can we please all move on Can we please lock these threads now!
Ricdic Caldari	Posted - 2008.12.04 15:35:00 - [17] This is more devs in one thread in these forums since ...(insert event...) I hope some of the industrial minded of you devs occasionally have a read through here. Do you know what an EBANK is?
Cheopis Amarr One Stop Mining Shop	Posted - 2008.12.04 15:39:00 - [18] Originally by: CCP Hammer Managing forums is really up to the community team so I would leave it to them to decide if another section needs to be created. You did ask for my opinion though so I will give it to you. Based on a cursory glance at the front page of this forum it would seem that it doesn't even get enough posts to fill the front page. Other forum topics fill a few pages with threads a day. So if I was the community team and I was trying to figure out which topics need to be broken into new forums the market discussions forums wouldn't be at the top of my list. My rhetorical questions to you would be: are people really having a lot trouble following the dozen new threads a day or are people getting lost trying to find a place to discuss market issues (be they in-game or player created out-of-game)? Thank you very much for your time Based solely on forum activity, it was appropriate for the forum to be moved and given new life. However, the MD forum is not just a place to talk about how the eve markets works, it's a place where people make a lot of significant ingame decisions, and actually play the game in ways that cannot be duplicated ingame. In essence, the high finance component of this forum is an extension of the game itself. Just as the sales of characters and GTCs are conducted in their own forums because they don't quite fit anywhere else, there needs to be a place where the real ingame needs of the high finance community can be met. The forums used to, and hopefully will again provide a quiet place where the high stakes players can play their game of EVE. With the existence of a general economics discussion channel, young players with an interest or a need can be funneled that way. The general deadness of the old MD channel will be mitigated to some degree by the existence of a general economics channel. Will it ever be a huge volume forum? Probably not. Will it offer benefits to the ingame economy? Definitely so. With all due respect, there just isn't an appropriate place in the EVE game itself for public high finance. Sure, there is plenty of private high finance going on ingame, but it's nearly impossible to engage in a meaningful IPO or bond offering ingame, and it becoming more and more difficult as time goes on to do so in MD's current location. Any large influx of players due to a boxed game release will make it even more difficult and frustrating. There are already several high finance players who now avoid this place, and as it becomes more populated, the population of the high finance crowd will likely continue to scatter, weakening the potential of the EVE high stakes financials markets. This is of course an opinion - I have no way to "prove" it.
Hexxx Minmatar	Posted - 2008.12.04 15:45:00 - [19] I agree with everything the CCP folks have said so far. I maintain that things are fine as they are right now. EBANK Staff \| www.eve-bank.net
Brock Nelson Caldari Flux Technologies Inc	Posted - 2008.12.04 15:45:00 - [20] Originally by: Cheopis Just as the sales of characters and GTCs are conducted in their own forums because they don't quite fit anywhere else, there needs to be a place where the real ingame needs of the high finance community can be met. Didn't GTC and Char sales used to be all in sales forum until it cluttered up so much that they finally got their own forum? We don't get that much new threads everyday. 10% for Returning Customers
Midas Man Caldari Dzark Asylum	Posted - 2008.12.04 15:52:00 - [21] MD on a good day moves about 1 Page, flick to page 2 your into yesterday and 3-4 pages spans a week. We need more people to post here, we need new ipo/bonds, we need new investors as all these thing improve the health of the markets. Splitting an already tiny player base is just stupid and blind sighted IMHO. So what if we get the occasional noob post, you have three options:- 1) Counter Troll - used extensively by MD regulars short and sweet and gets the job done. 2) Offer help - Foolish, people asking simple questions and doing no research will carry on that path no matter how much you help so help your self and dont waste your time. 3) Counter intellegence - Provide them with hints and tips that- a) help you make money by exploiting their ignorance. eg If you need lots of zyd in Jita - Tell them there is a good market collecting zyd from motsu and taking it to Jita, small gains so not worth it for us. They might like the few millon they gain b) Help you by sending them headfirst into a competitors market. Have fun and take what you can.
Cheopis Amarr One Stop Mining Shop	Posted - 2008.12.04 15:59:00 - [22] Originally by: YouGotRipped Edited by: YouGotRipped on 04/12/2008 15:16:30 Originally by: Cheopis Shar Tegral, and YouGotRipped. While you are welcome to comment, of course, I have learned to expect a little better of both of you [...] Perhaps the community would like to guess where someone with such a big mouth spent his time since char creation in 23.08.2004 Total posts 383 Posts in the last month or so - more than 300. Quite a sudden burst of activity don't you think? hahah This might, perhaps, have something to do with the fact that: A) I now have a third shift job where I do about 4-6 hours worth of work in an 8 hour shift. B) I have multiple accounts, and try to post appropriately to the activities of each main character. C) I have started getting into the EVE economic market far more extensively, which pretty much requires posting to the forums because it's not well supported ingame. Amazing how C ties into this argument, eh?
CornerStoner	Posted - 2008.12.04 16:13:00 - [23] 1. You have presented your opinion on this topic/issue in many threads. 2. It has been debated to a level beyond it's merit. 3. 3 Devs have taken the time to address it and explain in plain english their SOP for the forums and why things are the way they are. 4. You have decided to ignore the above 3 points and continue. TBH to continue with this would be ridiculous, obsessive and against the forum rules you claim to respect. Please...request this thread be locked and save yourself any further embarassment.
Ricdic Caldari	Posted - 2008.12.04 16:39:00 - [24] Edited by: Ricdic on 04/12/2008 16:43:01 I kinda have to agree with Corner. It's time to let it go and accept that things won't be changing. Focus your efforts on something more productive and fruitful like nipples.
SencneS Amarr Rebellion Against big Irreversible Dinks	Posted - 2008.12.04 16:45:00 - [25] I think a lot of peoples dislike for this forum of late is because of the Observed standard. I know that's why I can hardly tolerate reading this forum now. As much as logical conclusion the devs have started about forum activity that is the exact reason why a good number of people liked this forum. I would say a good number of regulars like to know "EVERYTHING" until the move the data being thrown into this forum was quality data. Data we wanted to know about, and use etc. Consider it like a water channel... For the longest time the Regular Market Discussion forum users where drinking fresh maintain steam. Then Big Brother came along and said we want your fresh water here, and diverted the fresh clean water to the big nasty undrinkable toxic waste run off from the a big City. The regular fresh water drinkers are ****ed off Big Brother took away the quality and believe the quantity, although crap quantity, will compensate. Also don't be mistaken by people who thing "We need more IPOs, more people means more IPOs" Wrong.. Just wrong. more people doesn't mean more IPOs if anything it means less per capita. Making it harder to invest. You can't fault anyone for wanting to keep all the fresh profitable water to themselves. Amarr for Life
Damien Jax Chaos Faction	Posted - 2008.12.04 16:47:00 - [26] Edited by: Damien Jax on 04/12/2008 16:46:59 Originally by: Ricdic Edited by: Ricdic on 04/12/2008 16:43:01 I kinda have to agree with Corner. It's time to let it go and accept that things won't be changing. Focus your efforts on something more productive and fruitful like nipples. I move for the creation of a forum devoted to fruit-topped pancakes, and of course, nipples.
lacal	Posted - 2008.12.04 16:48:00 - [27] Yeah please put this to bed - I generally only look at the missions forum and the market forum. Missions forum has only just recovered from all the missile whines, please let this forum get back to normal sooner rather than later!
Redbad Minmatar Mean Corp Mean Coalition	Posted - 2008.12.04 17:04:00 - [28] This whining is all to common to those who know "change" "First, when implementing change, we must assume that even the most irrational resistance is not seen as irrational by the person who is resisting. You, I, everyoneùwe react to the world the way we perceive itùbased upon our own experience. And the way we reactùthe way we behaveùmakes sense from our viewpoint. To us, our behavior is perfectly logical no matter how strange it might seem to someone else. What does this mean for managing change? Well, we think it means that in planning change and managing the resistance to change, we must try to see the proposed change from the viewpoint of the people we are asking to change. A second principle of human behavior that we feel is important is that people react emotionally to change. And their feelings or emotions may be more compelling than their intellect. Also, feelings and emotions change slowly. If we must install the technology where there is considerable opposition, then we can expect that it will take some time for the opposition to subside. People who are emotionally opposed to a change are not going to change their feelings because we tell them to. Preaching is not the answer. They will embrace the change only when they see advantages for themselves in doing so. Thus, any change must include heavy doses of communicationùand we mean two-way communication." TLDR: quit whining, let it grow on you.
Rho'varo Minmatar Diversified Operational Services	Posted - 2008.12.04 17:06:00 - [29] Originally by: CornerStoner To continue with this would be ridiculous, obsessive and against the forum rules you claim to respect. A good summary, CornerStoner. The topic was worth giving some attention and discussing, but now it's time to move on. Maybe, if things change substantially, in six months or a year it will be worth revisiting this topic, but for right now I think we've reached the point of "flogging a dead horse".
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2008.12.04 17:11:00 - [30] Originally by: Damien Jax I move for the creation of a forum devoted to fruit-topped pancakes, and of course, nipples. I tried fruit topping, but honestly nothing quite has the healthy margin like hot delicious maple syrup
Bloody Rabbit Jita Miners	Posted - 2008.12.04 17:34:00 - [31] So CCP has spoken, this case is now closed as far as I'm concerned. I will be opening up an account at Ebank, but should I go with this alt so my business isn't war dec or should I use my real char? I have already had massive loses due to war dec from a 100 man alliance so I'm a little gun shy.
Ricdic Caldari	Posted - 2008.12.04 17:54:00 - [32] what does ebank have to do with war?
Bloody Rabbit Jita Miners	Posted - 2008.12.04 19:15:00 - [33] Originally by: Ricdic what does ebank have to do with war? I use an alt because I have been a war target 2 times now so I was thinking should I open an account at Ebank with this alt, or should I open with my main. BTW the first time I got hammered, second time I used mercs and that was too costly but I win in the KB lost on the isk.
Damien Jax Chaos Faction	Posted - 2008.12.04 20:00:00 - [34] What? I don't get how being war decced would decide which character you use to deposit money. Are you afraid someone will steal it if they see your character name? Color me confused!
SentryRaven Sentry Security	Posted - 2008.12.04 20:01:00 - [35] Originally by: Bloody Rabbit Originally by: Ricdic what does ebank have to do with war? I use an alt because I have been a war target 2 times now so I was thinking should I open an account at Ebank with this alt, or should I open with my main. BTW the first time I got hammered, second time I used mercs and that was too costly but I win in the KB lost on the isk. To EBANK, it does certainly not matter which character you use to create an account. We are a neutral entity. Besides, what would it help other players to wardec you, if they know you have an EBANK account. They cannot access that money... --------
Cheopis Amarr One Stop Mining Shop	Posted - 2008.12.04 21:49:00 - [36] Edited by: Cheopis on 04/12/2008 21:49:31 Originally by: CornerStoner 1. You have presented your opinion on this topic/issue in many threads. 2. It has been debated to a level beyond it's merit. 3. 3 Devs have taken the time to address it and explain in plain english their SOP for the forums and why things are the way they are. 4. You have decided to ignore the above 3 points and continue. TBH to continue with this would be ridiculous, obsessive and against the forum rules you claim to respect. Please...request this thread be locked and save yourself any further embarassment. 1 Yes 2 You can't debate "right" on too many threads. There is no debate when it is obvious there is something wrong 3 Devs have basically explained 1) CCP Hammer doesn't feel comfortable stomping on other CCP employee toes, but does seem to recognize that there might be a problem. 2) CCP Mitnal seems to understand, but really doesn't care because he sees it as just a forum and not a critical part of the game, and 3)CCP Navigator doesn't know what the problem actually is, based on the brevity and his apparent complete lack of understanding of what this channel used to do, and still tries to do. 4) Yes. Why? Because I had hope that the somewhat open wording of CCP Hammer's response might mean that he was in fact still watching and might be willing to respond once or more and if convinced, perhaps begin taking steps to actually support the game content of EVE that exists in this forum. This might still happen in a measured pace, without further action on any of our parts. As nice as it might be for CCP Hammer to have said "These people run something here that is a critical part of the game itself, give them a little space of their own." and use a little muscle to make a change, I was not expecting immediate action. He does not work in a vacuum. I fully expect the CCP people in charge of the forums to continue to completely ignore or blithely dismiss any arguments that might make their work .01% harder. This is the #1 goal of all Forum Moderators. "Squish as much content into as little space as you can possibly get away with, while claiming it is for the good of the community." After recent comments by CCP Mitnal, it was obvious that the only hope was to bring in someone responsible for actual gameplay, and at least get them to see that a problem exists, and maybe get in a little dialog with them, then hope that some dialog might open up between CCP team members resulting in action to support the ingame high stakes financial market. This last part might still happen. shrug So, I've accomplished most of what I expected might be possible with this thread, and more than I expected to be probable. I would like to see at least one response on a game-content level from CCP Hammer, since he did ask a game-content based question that appeared to be indicating an interest in a little dialog. I won't hold my breath for it, but since he did express an interest in what the actual background problem was, I'd like to see an indication that he understands the concerns of those persons who consider the discussions and activity within the old MD forum to ba a part of EVE that is not supported by the client. So, no, I will not be requesting thread closure. That would be like inviting someone to dinner then slamming the door in their face when they arrive at your doorstep. I'll respond here and there, and hope to see some indication that CCP Hammer actually understands the problem. This might take months, or perhaps there might be a stealth fix and we'll see a new forum tomorrow where MD used to be. As Shar says above, the CCP team can be a bit difficult to track at times
shortattenionsp	Posted - 2008.12.05 02:23:00 - [37] Shutup about this already. You have already lost the argument - taking more threads won't make things any better.
Frenden Dax Dax Acquisitions	Posted - 2008.12.05 02:28:00 - [38] What's done is done, man. While I agreed with you earlier, CCP has stated rather decisively that they aren't moving MD back to its old position. This being the case, it's time to move forward, not cover your ears and chant 'not listening' in hopes that you'll get your way. TL;DR: What's done is done; let it die.
Cheopis Amarr One Stop Mining Shop	Posted - 2008.12.05 04:44:00 - [39] Originally by: shortattenionsp Shutup about this already. You have already lost the argument - taking more threads won't make things any better. You cannot lose an argument when you are correct. It doesn't matter how many times someone says 2+2=5. Even if a new forum is not created, It does not mean there isn't a problem, it just means CCP is choosing to ignore the possible long term effect on the game that ignoring the needs of high stakes investors will cause. Yes, this may seem a bit over the top. I'm not exactly subtle by nature when I know with 100% certainty that I am correct, especially when I have my own thoughts clarified by dozens of obviously short sighted and flawed arguments against me. Consider this: All these people saying "we can mix the high stakes forum and the market discussion forum here because we can just ignore threads" or similar statements? How many times have they responded to me? Doesn't this seem a bit strange? In light of the fact that they cannot even follow their own advice and not comment in a thread they want to fall off the page, I do not see how the newbie experience is going to be anything other than a nightmare flamefest when the newbie population begins to pick up after a boxed game release. In short, as long as people continue to argue in a thread they wish to go away, they prove that they can't even allow a thread to pass away, and make their replies meaningless by the simple fact that they are replying at all. I've done about as much as I can expect to do here, and will not be bumping this thread. I will not have any problems with responding to comments, however. Being right will only take you so far, the ball is in CCP's court now. Hopefully someone up there cares enough about the high end economic game to actually do something.
LaVista Vista	Posted - 2008.12.05 04:59:00 - [40] Originally by: Cheopis Yes, this may seem a bit over the top. I'm not exactly subtle by nature when I know with 100% certainty that I am correct, especially when I have my own thoughts clarified by dozens of obviously short sighted and flawed arguments against me. Wow, you are right: You aren't subtle about the fact what you say. But I know I'm 100% right when I say that it's bull****. Stop posting already. You make people in Market Discussion seem really bad
Cheopis Amarr One Stop Mining Shop	Posted - 2008.12.05 05:02:00 - [41] Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: Cheopis Yes, this may seem a bit over the top. I'm not exactly subtle by nature when I know with 100% certainty that I am correct, especially when I have my own thoughts clarified by dozens of obviously short sighted and flawed arguments against me. Wow, you are right: You aren't subtle about the fact what you say. But I know I'm 100% right when I say that it's bull****. Stop posting already. You make people in Market Discussion seem really bad Thank you for proving my point.
LaVista Vista	Posted - 2008.12.05 05:05:00 - [42] Originally by: Cheopis Thank you for proving my point. Your point was hammered into the ground over a page ago when you got owned by 2 blues in a row
Hexxx Minmatar	Posted - 2008.12.05 05:07:00 - [43] Originally by: Cheopis In short, as long as people continue to argue in a thread they wish to go away, they prove that they can't even allow a thread to pass away, and make their replies meaningless by the simple fact that they are replying at all. Unless by replying they prove that the thread should go away, because they won't allow a thread like this to have any credibility, which is proven by their continued arguments in a thread they wish to go away. This is a simple fact, which in short, is proven by me replying. Unless it's not. Maybe. EBANK Staff \| www.eve-bank.net
LaVista Vista	Posted - 2008.12.05 05:14:00 - [44] Originally by: Hexxx Originally by: Cheopis In short, as long as people continue to argue in a thread they wish to go away, they prove that they can't even allow a thread to pass away, and make their replies meaningless by the simple fact that they are replying at all. Unless by replying they prove that the thread should go away, because they won't allow a thread like this to have any credibility, which is proven by their continued arguments in a thread they wish to go away. This is a simple fact, which in short, is proven by me replying. Unless it's not. Maybe. Hexxx better get training Forum Warfare Specialization to at very least level 4. However, do remember that the skill only applies when you are in a fleet. But it sux when you run around doing suicide runs when the rest of us has the required bonuses to post in this forum while not being confusing
Cheopis Amarr One Stop Mining Shop	Posted - 2008.12.05 05:18:00 - [45] Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: Cheopis Thank you for proving my point. Your point was hammered into the ground over a page ago when you got owned by 2 blues in a row Originally by: CCP Navigator Hammer is absolutely correct. Forum particpation in Market Discussions is light to moderate so adding additional forums at this time would be unnecessary. I would also add that you have an opportunity to educate and guide newer players on the ins and outs of the EVE Market while still holding your advanced market discussions within this forum. Do you mean here, where CCP Navigator showed that he doesn't even know that we do more than talk here? Or do you mean where Hammer said that "Managing forums is really up to the community team" and then later asked "My rhetorical questions to you would be: are people really having a lot trouble following the dozen new threads a day or are people getting lost trying to find a place to discuss market issues (be they in-game or player created out-of-game)?" Boy, I really feel "owned" by these Devs, one of whom expressed at least some interest in the issue while avoiding stepping on colleague toes, and the other who indicated they didn't even know what happens in this forum. Your statement has no merit.
Cheopis Amarr One Stop Mining Shop	Posted - 2008.12.05 05:22:00 - [46] As I said, I've done what I can, and am willing to drop this thread. Can you allow it to fall off the page? Or shall you continue to prove that I am correct by showing how willing you are to continue on a dead topic?
cosmoray Cosmoray Construction	Posted - 2008.12.05 05:24:00 - [47] Cheopis you are starting to sound like Charlie Browns teacher. Please let it go.
YouGotRipped Ewigkeit	Posted - 2008.12.05 07:50:00 - [48] Edited by: YouGotRipped on 05/12/2008 07:55:05 Originally by: Cheopis As I said, I've done what I can, and am willing to drop this thread. Is it over yet? Better read the "Petition for an advanced market forum" thread one more time just to be sure. Black Sun Empire
Handelsschnucki	Posted - 2008.12.06 01:44:00 - [49] Edited by: Handelsschnucki on 06/12/2008 01:45:25 Originally by: Cheopis You cannot lose an argument when you are correct. It doesn't matter how many times someone says 2+2=5. First off, I am 1. an eve newbie 2. not a regular reader of this little board and finally 3. have no clue about what you are talking about... I still would like to point out the above statement! I wish you were right, it would make the world a better place, a most wonderful one indeed! Furthermore I wish you to embrace and acknowledge the naivety of what you said there. Finally, to **** off all the readers I pleased onto this point, Id like to mention that you are doing the only right thing: cry out as loud as you can. Regards, Frank ninja-edit: wow, censorship hits hard on faecal word abuse here!
Broegitte Bardot BINFORD Majesta Empire	Posted - 2008.12.06 07:09:00 - [50] im not an off-table-brusher saying stuff like "xxx is fine" but i can't say MD is un-fine x_X it's not the forum's fault that ric and hex ruined the financial market ^^ nor how there's too much money circulating in the first place. anything else is merely evolution or progress - not saying if it was in the "right" direction -.- aka Roemy Schneider (probably lacking game time again)
Ricdic Caldari	Posted - 2008.12.06 12:21:00 - [51] Originally by: Broegitte Bardot it's not the forum's fault that ric and hex ruined the financial market ^^ nor how there's too much money circulating in the first place. I laughed out loud. GTFO troll
Bloody Rabbit Jita Miners	Posted - 2008.12.06 14:31:00 - [52] Originally by: Broegitte Bardot it's not the forum's fault that ric and hex ruined the financial market ^^ nor how there's too much money circulating in the first place. anything else is merely evolution or progress - not saying if it was in the "right" direction -.- Please tell us how they have ruined the market? Note I haven't had any dealing with these two but I have seen and read their posts in the past and noticed how much they try to help new and old players.
Treelox Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party	Posted - 2008.12.06 14:34:00 - [53] Edited by: Treelox on 06/12/2008 14:34:31 Originally by: Bloody Rabbit Originally by: Broegitte Bardot it's not the forum's fault that ric and hex ruined the financial market ^^ nor how there's too much money circulating in the first place. anything else is merely evolution or progress - not saying if it was in the "right" direction -.- Please tell us how they have ruined the market? Note I haven't had any dealing with these two but I have seen and read their posts in the past and noticed how much they try to help new and old players. he is implying that they ruined it via Ebank, and how Ebank has sucked up all the investment iskies. A running gag around the forums, some mean it and some just jeer it at Hexxx and Ricdic to make them blush. ----edit added a "it" that seemed to have misplaced itself in the intial typing... --
JafoPBCFR One Stop Mining Shop	Posted - 2008.12.06 15:03:00 - [54] DID Cheopis say Waffles? Ill Invest in Waffles! I as you can tell Am in his corp and heard his Case in vent. Wanted to shoot then hang myself but i still listend. I can see the merit in what he wants. And Respect his deication to his belief. There i said it Chopis gimme my damn Waffle!!
Ricdic Caldari	Posted - 2008.12.06 15:34:00 - [55] The placing of capitals in your text is insanely incorrect. It's like your left pinkie has frayed nerves causing you to accidentally hold down the shift key at random intervals.

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