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Spy 21
Lonetrek Exploration and Salvage
37
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Posted - 2012.04.10 19:29:00 -
[1] - Quote
I am guessing that is impossible.
I bought a ship in Rens just now off the market... the market bot order ended in xxx499.97 ISK and the next higher order was xxx500.00 ISK,,, So for the extra .03 ISK and not to reward the bot trader, I clicked on the even number offer and then clicked buy...
I got my ship at the even number amount except it was filled by the bot trader as the number of ships it had for sale went down by 1 and the other offer for a single ship remained.
Sorta makes me mad cause I really didn't want to subsidize that insane penny crap that goes on in market hubs... most by bots, some by real traders. As a former trader, I still have resentments lol...
CCP should allow me to pick who's order I buy from. I simply don't like the market bots that have proliferated in the market hubs.
Just bitching.
Have a nice day.
S "The next time airport security tells you to put your hands over your head and hold that vulnerable position for seven seconds, ask yourself: Is this the posture of a free man?" |
Jandice Ymladris
Perkone Caldari State
8
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Posted - 2012.04.10 19:32:00 -
[2] - Quote
The cruel thing is, if you buy at a higher price, you reward the undercutter! As he gets the isk from your sale (so by example, if you buy a 2 mill mod, and someone has m on market for 1 mill, he suddenly gets 2 mill, providing both orders are in range)
Best way to undercut such marketplayer is by buying in another hub or locale. |
Doc Fury
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
751
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Posted - 2012.04.10 19:32:00 -
[3] - Quote
How do you know for sure it was a bot order?
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'no.' |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
5978
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Posted - 2012.04.10 19:38:00 -
[4] - Quote
Yes. It's a commodity market, not a super market GÇö it's there to make trading efficient, not to make some trades impossible. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |
Kieron VonDeux
0
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Posted - 2012.04.10 19:40:00 -
[5] - Quote
I frequently have market orders that end with xxx499.97 ISK and no Blade Runner has been chasing me for being a bot.
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Lord FunkyMunky
Intergalactic Syndicate Nulli Secunda
14
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Posted - 2012.04.10 19:44:00 -
[6] - Quote
Its like this for a reason
if theres 100 orders with 1 unit each of item X and i need 50 of item X and the price is only a difference of 1 isk from all those items, i don't mind waisting the 49 isk, by just selecting the one thats at the higher price , setting the # of items to 50 and buying all 50 orders out for a little extra cash...
Also having stock endings on your prices is not a bot many traders do it just to easily identify there orders, and others do it cause there lazy lol |
Spy 21
Lonetrek Exploration and Salvage
37
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Posted - 2012.04.10 19:45:00 -
[7] - Quote
Bot or no bot I hate the .01 ISK undercutters... if you wanna be the cheapest than knock out the next guy by being 1 mil cheaper :).. so to me, they are all just BOTS!
Again... an old resentment.
More of a personal problem there... but the reason I post is I really did think I got the order I clicked on, not simply whoever did the last 0.01 ISK drop.
S
"The next time airport security tells you to put your hands over your head and hold that vulnerable position for seven seconds, ask yourself: Is this the posture of a free man?" |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
5978
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Posted - 2012.04.10 19:48:00 -
[8] - Quote
Spy 21 wrote:More of a personal problem there... but the reason I post is I really did think I got the order I clicked on, not simply whoever did the last 0.01 ISK drop. Close, but not quite: you got the price you clicked on. The trader gremlins then made sure that everyone got what they wanted in terms of money and goods.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |
Kieron VonDeux
0
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Posted - 2012.04.10 19:49:00 -
[9] - Quote
Spy 21 wrote:Bot or no bot I hate the .01 ISK undercutters...
I used to as well, but after a while you just realize that it is simply the PvP nature of the market.
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Rath Kelbore
The Six-Pack Syndicate EVE Animal Control
53
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Posted - 2012.04.10 19:56:00 -
[10] - Quote
I'm confused.
If there are two sell orders for the same item and one is at 100 and the other is at 150 and I buy the order at 150, The person listed at 100 gets 150 isk ? I plan on living forever.......so far, so good. |
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Lady Spank
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
2075
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Posted - 2012.04.10 20:00:00 -
[11] - Quote
Maybe put up buy orders if market competition gets you so upset. (a¦á_a¦â) ~ http://getoutnastyface.blogspot.com/ ~ (a¦á_a¦â) |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
5978
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Posted - 2012.04.10 20:01:00 -
[12] - Quote
Rath Kelbore wrote:I'm confused.
If there are two sell orders for the same item and one is at 100 and the other is at 150 and I buy the order at 150, The person listed at 100 gets 150 isk ? Yes. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |
Kieron VonDeux
0
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Posted - 2012.04.10 20:01:00 -
[13] - Quote
Rath Kelbore wrote:I'm confused.
If there are two sell orders for the same item and one is at 100 and the other is at 150 and I buy the order at 150, The person listed at 100 gets 150 isk ?
Yes |
Rath Kelbore
The Six-Pack Syndicate EVE Animal Control
53
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Posted - 2012.04.10 20:08:00 -
[14] - Quote
Why not make it a new isk sink then. Let the "broker" gain the 50 isk in my above example.
If a broker sees someone willing to pay 150 for something and someone else willing to sell it at 100 wouldn't they complete the transaction and keep the 50 dollars? Makes sense to me. Am I missing anything?
Edit: True that's kind of a sneaky isk sink but still. I plan on living forever.......so far, so good. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
5978
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Posted - 2012.04.10 20:16:00 -
[15] - Quote
Rath Kelbore wrote:Why not make it a new isk sink then. Let the "broker" gain the 50 isk in my above example.
If a broker sees someone willing to pay 150 for something and someone else willing to sell it at 100 wouldn't they complete the transaction and keep the 50 dollars? Makes sense to me. Am I missing anything? FTC will be very upset if they doGǪ? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |
Falcon Tastic
State War Academy Caldari State
4
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Posted - 2012.04.10 20:17:00 -
[16] - Quote
I trade and I am not a bot.
I often play the 0.01isk game. Its fun. It is like mining. Nice and repetetive.
Also people should remember the station traders provide a service. They keep the market working and competive and also act as a store and intermediary between the seller and buyer. Traders also alow people to quickly liquidate their assets. |
Kessiaan
Greater Order Of Destruction Happy Endings
170
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Posted - 2012.04.10 20:20:00 -
[17] - Quote
I do some trading; I plug in whatever number my spreadsheet spits out. Just because it doesn't end in .00 doesn't mean its a bot by any means. My killboard - http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=Kessiaan |
Marduk Nibiru
Risk Breakers C0NVICTED
168
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Posted - 2012.04.10 20:24:00 -
[18] - Quote
Rath Kelbore wrote:I'm confused.
If there are two sell orders for the same item and one is at 100 and the other is at 150 and I buy the order at 150, The person listed at 100 gets 150 isk ?
Yep. |
Rath Kelbore
The Six-Pack Syndicate EVE Animal Control
53
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Posted - 2012.04.10 20:30:00 -
[19] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Rath Kelbore wrote:Why not make it a new isk sink then. Let the "broker" gain the 50 isk in my above example.
If a broker sees someone willing to pay 150 for something and someone else willing to sell it at 100 wouldn't they complete the transaction and keep the 50 dollars? Makes sense to me. Am I missing anything? FTC will be very upset if they doGǪ?
Was not aware concord had that division I plan on living forever.......so far, so good. |
Marduk Nibiru
Risk Breakers C0NVICTED
168
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Posted - 2012.04.10 20:34:00 -
[20] - Quote
Spy 21 wrote:Bot or no bot I hate the .01 ISK undercutters... if you wanna be the cheapest than knock out the next guy by being 1 mil cheaper :).. so to me, they are all just BOTS!
Those bastard tritanium sellers!!!! |
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Aranakas
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
279
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Posted - 2012.04.10 20:58:00 -
[21] - Quote
Confirmed that the best way to fill out a sell order for tritanium is to undercut by 1 mil. Aranakas CEO of-áGreen Anarchy Green vs Green |
Nura Taron
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
9
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Posted - 2012.04.10 21:19:00 -
[22] - Quote
Spy 21 wrote:I am guessing that is impossible.
I bought a ship in Rens just now off the market... the market bot order ended in xxx499.97 ISK and the next higher order was xxx500.00 ISK,,, So for the extra .03 ISK and not to reward the bot trader, I clicked on the even number offer and then clicked buy...
I got my ship at the even number amount except it was filled by the bot trader as the number of ships it had for sale went down by 1 and the other offer for a single ship remained.
Sorta makes me mad cause I really didn't want to subsidize that insane penny crap that goes on in market hubs... most by bots, some by real traders. As a former trader, I still have resentments lol...
CCP should allow me to pick who's order I buy from. I simply don't like the market bots that have proliferated in the market hubs.
Just bitching.
Have a nice day.
S I always thought it was ******** that the sale always goes to the lowest price order no matter what order you click on. I agree we should be able to choose who we buy from. |
Lady Spank
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
2075
|
Posted - 2012.04.10 21:23:00 -
[23] - Quote
You can't pick and choose as it would be used for RMT ISK laundering... not that that stops people doing it anyway in backwater stations. (a¦á_a¦â) ~ http://getoutnastyface.blogspot.com/ ~ (a¦á_a¦â) |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
5978
|
Posted - 2012.04.10 21:23:00 -
[24] - Quote
Nura Taron wrote:I always thought it was ******** that the sale always goes to the lowest price order no matter what order you click on. I agree we should be able to choose who we buy from. The problem with that is that it would massively reduce the efficiency of the market, so you would no longer be able to pay (or charge) what stuff is actually worth.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |
Nura Taron
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
9
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Posted - 2012.04.10 21:25:00 -
[25] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Nura Taron wrote:I always thought it was ******** that the sale always goes to the lowest price order no matter what order you click on. I agree we should be able to choose who we buy from. The problem with that is that it would massively reduce the efficiency of the market, so you would no longer be able to pay (or charge) what stuff is actually worth. How would getting the order I clicked on do any of that? |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
5978
|
Posted - 2012.04.10 21:34:00 -
[26] - Quote
Nura Taron wrote:How would getting the order I clicked on do any of that? The way it works now, there is very little reason not to price your goods as low as possible because going higher just means someone else gets the sale. Likewise, offering less then something is worth is pointless since it just means someone else gets the goods.
Thus, there is always a downward pressure on sell orders and an upwards pressure on buy orders. The net effect is that both buy and sell orders will automatically tend towards that much-extolled equilibrium where everyone GÇ£agreesGÇ¥ that the GÇ£rightGÇ¥ price is achieved.
If you remove the mechanic that dictates these upper and lower bounds on a meaningful order, they will no longer converge (at least not as automatically and certainly not as quickly as before). By being able to pick your order, there is no longer any reason for anyone to price their wares reasonably because there will always be some sucker who misreads the numbers, sorts the prices incorrectly, or who just likes to spend more money than is needed for no good reason. Remove the brokerage aspect, and suddenly, the upwards and downwards pressure towards the GÇ£rightGÇ¥ price is, if not gone, then at least very weakened. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |
Hiram Alexander
Seraphim Securities
207
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Posted - 2012.04.10 21:57:00 -
[27] - Quote
CCP I'm holding you personally responsible for how terrible the OP's post was.
Please do something ~this year~ to improve your tutorials... New or old, the number of people who don't understand how the market actually works is truly astounding.
People don't understand ~shopping~ !
--- seriously, can you fix that please...?
And just for the record, Market PvP is still PvP, while crying about losing is a bit embarassing... Blaming bots is worse.
I have a mouse wheel. Most people do... It increments prices by 0.01 isk... I trade in billions of units every day, so not using it would be ********.
As for being able to pick and choose who you buy from... How about if we picked and chose who we sold to...? There'd be an uproar from people crying about having to 'train' shopping alts, lol...
The Market's fine the way it is. |
Nura Taron
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
9
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Posted - 2012.04.10 21:58:00 -
[28] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Nura Taron wrote:How would getting the order I clicked on do any of that? The way it works now, there is very little reason not to price your goods as low as possible because going higher just means someone else gets the sale. Likewise, offering less then something is worth is pointless since it just means someone else gets the goods. Thus, there is always a downward pressure on sell orders and an upwards pressure on buy orders. The net effect is that both buy and sell orders will automatically tend towards that much-extolled equilibrium where everyone GÇ£agreesGÇ¥ that the GÇ£rightGÇ¥ price is achieved. If you remove the mechanic that dictates these upper and lower bounds on a meaningful order, they will no longer converge (at least not as automatically and certainly not as quickly as before). By being able to pick your order, there is no longer any reason for anyone to price their wares reasonably because there will always be some sucker who misreads the numbers, sorts the prices incorrectly, or who just likes to spend more money than is needed for no good reason. Remove the brokerage aspect, and suddenly, the upwards and downwards pressure towards the GÇ£rightGÇ¥ price is, if not gone, then at least very weakened. Oh I see now. So like the way I can choose what to buy in real life and it made a can of soda cost $10,000. Wait, that didn't happen? Well then I guess people aren't going to suddenly stop caring what things cost just because they can choose who to buy from. What it does mean is that nontraders like me can buy the one that costs 5000 instead of the one that costs 4999.99 because that one is being sold by a friend or even just to spite the undercutter. I think what people are worried about is that they might actually have to do some work and move those items to a system with less competition instead of just undercutting by .01 once in a while to automagically force everyone to buy from them and never undocking from jita 4-4. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
5982
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Posted - 2012.04.10 22:07:00 -
[29] - Quote
Nura Taron wrote:Oh I see now. So like the way I can choose what to buy in real life and it made a can of soda cost $10,000. Wait, that didn't happen? That's because, at the back-end of the process, the sugar, and water, and chemicals (and even, to some extent, the collective work) that go into that can of soda are being bought and sold using exactly this kind of systemGǪ
GǪand then the manufacturers, logistics, retailers and sales points add various mark-ups to that base price, all of which basically comes down to branding GÇö something that doesn't exist in EVE since all goods are fungible.
Quote:Well then I guess people aren't going to suddenly stop caring what things cost just because they can choose who to buy from. It's not about caring GÇö it's about inherent mechanical pressure towards a common mean. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |
Markus Reese
Debitum Naturae ROMANIAN-LEGION
113
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Posted - 2012.04.10 22:10:00 -
[30] - Quote
Kessiaan wrote:I do some trading; I plug in whatever number my spreadsheet spits out. Just because it doesn't end in .00 doesn't mean its a bot by any means.
I think the main point is though, that if people select a market order, that should be the one they get to buy from however. If I only need one item, I might finish off that one person's one item buy order before the big order if I could. Just cause. |
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