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Time to get back to Launcher Bonus on Caldari ships?

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Colonel Xaven Decadence. RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.12.10 08:56:00 - [61] Originally by: Presidio Scorpion needs a damage bonus. It's not like it's going to be crazy dps with only 4 missile launchers. I have to confess that flying a Falcon is smarter than flying a Scorpion. Weaker tank though but you are more agile / flexible. And a Falcon is cheaper. The role of both ships is not DPS. So why do you say it needs a damage boost? Proud member of RZR - Decadence.
Naomi Knight Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.12.10 09:03:00 - [62] Originally by: Colonel Xaven Originally by: Presidio Scorpion needs a damage bonus. It's not like it's going to be crazy dps with only 4 missile launchers. I have to confess that flying a Falcon is smarter than flying a Scorpion. Weaker tank though but you are more agile / flexible. And a Falcon is cheaper. The role of both ships is not DPS. So why do you say it needs a damage boost? You are a razor member ,so i try to answer it clearly. Many ships are multirole ,so they can do tackle and dmg with the same fit like the vagabond. Falcon is a one role ship like most of the caldari ships, but if you give scorpion a dmg boost it would became a multirole ship and could do acceptable dmg while still able to jamm some targets.
BiggestT Caldari Resurrection Skunk-Works	Posted - 2008.12.10 09:43:00 - [63] Originally by: Naomi Knight Originally by: Theron Gyrow Originally by: BiggestT They say that gallente are confined to thermal, but they arent. They chose the higher dps drones sure, but they can still chose any other kind of drone and get the bonus. Ppl that say caldari can "sort of" chose their damage type are just silly, as we LOSE a bonus doing that. Gallente dont. So, to match the situation with drones, you suggest that thermal, EM and explosive missiles should lose some 15-25% of their damage output depending on their damage type but Caldari should get a damage bonus for all kinds of missiles? Fair enough. So you are those eft warriors who only read dps stat? As less dmg drones are faster than tha snailslow thermal ones. This. Id be happy with Theron's suggestion if the non-kinetic missiles were also made faster/better explo velocity etc. EVE history t2 precisions
Theron Gyrow Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.12.10 09:43:00 - [64] Originally by: Naomi Knight Originally by: Theron Gyrow Originally by: BiggestT They say that gallente are confined to thermal, but they arent. They chose the higher dps drones sure, but they can still chose any other kind of drone and get the bonus. Ppl that say caldari can "sort of" chose their damage type are just silly, as we LOSE a bonus doing that. Gallente dont. So, to match the situation with drones, you suggest that thermal, EM and explosive missiles should lose some 15-25% of their damage output depending on their damage type but Caldari should get a damage bonus for all kinds of missiles? Fair enough. So you are those eft warriors who only read dps stat? As less dmg drones are faster than tha snailslow thermal ones. Fair point, we'd need to slow the kinetic missiles too if this was done. But hey, Caldari wouldn't lose a bonus using the other missiles, and that's what counts, right? -- Gradient forum
BiggestT Caldari Resurrection Skunk-Works	Posted - 2008.12.10 09:46:00 - [65] Edited by: BiggestT on 10/12/2008 09:47:07 Edited by: BiggestT on 10/12/2008 09:46:36 Originally by: Theron Gyrow Fair point, we'd need to slow the kinetic missiles too if this was done. But hey, Caldari wouldn't lose a bonus using the other missiles, and that's what counts, right? No, the other missiles would speed up. Its not like, when drones were being concieved, that minmatar drones were the standard speed and everything else was made slower. I'd think that thermal drones wld be the standard speed, and that everything else was made faster. As should be the case with kinetic missiles vs. non-kinetic missiles. EVE history t2 precisions
Colonel Xaven Decadence. RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.12.10 10:37:00 - [66] Originally by: Naomi Knight Many ships are multirole ,so they can do tackle and dmg with the same fit like the vagabond. Falcon is a one role ship like most of the caldari ships, but if you give scorpion a dmg boost it would became a multirole ship and could do acceptable dmg while still able to jamm some targets. Which BS is multirole? Proud member of RZR - Decadence.
fkingfurious	Posted - 2008.12.10 11:11:00 - [67] Edited by: fkingfurious on 10/12/2008 11:11:45 Giving Caldari missile boats a flat damage bonus gimps the **** out of Gallente Tech 2 as well don't forget. All Tech 2 ships (with resists) are tailored to screw the primary damage type of their storyline enemy. Hence lasers bonuce of Vagabonds, Barrage rattles off Zealots and close range blaster ammo and Hammerheads fail against cerbs. And as things stand, those bonused kinetics actually come up short on DPS vs. Tech 2 Gallente compared to using an unbonused explosive. And as Caldari (or Khanid to some extent) are the only race that bonuses kinetic damage (noone in their right mind is going to pvp with titanium sabot loaded) giving Cladari full damage flexibility makes a mockery of Gallente Tech2 resists. In order to keep them inline with the Eve backstory Gallente would have to develop Tech2 resists that counter everything. Which is fine by me.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. The Firm.	Posted - 2008.12.10 11:16:00 - [68] Originally by: Theron Gyrow Originally by: BiggestT They say that gallente are confined to thermal, but they arent. They chose the higher dps drones sure, but they can still chose any other kind of drone and get the bonus. Ppl that say caldari can "sort of" chose their damage type are just silly, as we LOSE a bonus doing that. Gallente dont. So, to match the situation with drones, you suggest that thermal, EM and explosive missiles should lose some 15-25% of their damage output depending on their damage type but Caldari should get a damage bonus for all kinds of missiles? Fair enough. Sounds good, as long as Explosive missiles go 25% faster and have 25% better explosion velocity/radius.
Nia Yiq	Posted - 2008.12.10 11:19:00 - [69] I haven't read it all trough but this is just my point of view. Mim do damge all across the bord depending on ammotype they chose. some do more dmage have less range and the other way around. (mim is just wierd with ammo IMHO) gal can choose between drones and can sacrifise fdamge for speed. most used rones remain gal and mim ones. thier hybrids are allways stuck with therm/kin amarr can select drones to on a lesser acount often used mim for that 3th damge type. but thier lasers are stuck with em/therm Caldari can go kinetic missles as it allmost enevr happens you encount someone with 25% less resitance ellswhear than kin. drones are to little of use due small drone bays. so we are pretty much stuck to 1 damge type. which is sadly enough pretty high on the resit graph of most ships but not that high that we can drop the 25% bonus for a other damge type to deal more damge. Point is gal, amarr and mim can deal 3 to 4 diffeent types of damge with a minor trade off in damge but gaining other atributes. caldari kin ships only deal 1 with verry little addon from thier light drones sometimes to a seconf type. My suggestion give cal kin bonussed ships a second damge type bonus together with the kin one. this would alow them to deal 2 damge types at good efficency or even give it a lesser bonus to EM or explisive as these are often lower in the tanked resist graph. so: 1: add a 5% therm bonus 2: add a 3-4% em/explosive bonus. We get a other damge type without overpowering our missles.
madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces	Posted - 2008.12.10 12:34:00 - [70] Edited by: madaluap on 10/12/2008 12:34:16 Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Theron Gyrow Originally by: BiggestT They say that gallente are confined to thermal, but they arent. They chose the higher dps drones sure, but they can still chose any other kind of drone and get the bonus. Ppl that say caldari can "sort of" chose their damage type are just silly, as we LOSE a bonus doing that. Gallente dont. So, to match the situation with drones, you suggest that thermal, EM and explosive missiles should lose some 15-25% of their damage output depending on their damage type but Caldari should get a damage bonus for all kinds of missiles? Fair enough. Sounds good, as long as Explosive missiles go 25% faster and have 25% better explosion velocity/radius. Agreed, ~~caldari~~ minmatar would love this change _________________________________________________
vostok Minmatar Shadow of xXDEATHXx	Posted - 2008.12.10 14:26:00 - [71] Originally by: BiggestT This. Id be happy with Theron's suggestion if the non-kinetic missiles were also made faster/better explo velocity etc. Sorry, CCP though the average caldari pilot was to dumb to understand T1 missiles going different ranges. Hell there's still enough who don't know how to work out how far their missiles go even after they dock before trying to show info. Anyway, if your ships get damage bonuses to other damage types, I want bonuses to medium and small guns on my battleship and specifically, on my thorax! You see your noob thoughts are all well and good but it doesn't seem like any of you have thought this through at all. This thread is a prime example of why missiles are so dumbed down imo. - Adaptation is not* an excuse for lack of ballance!* -
Crellion Art of War Exalted.	Posted - 2008.12.10 15:17:00 - [72] What does it matter anyway in the day of omnitank? I think its probably allright to give them straigt dmg bonus but not that important a topic anyway... I am sort of tempted to read what people filled 3 pages with but I think I will actually pass... Arguably my opinions represent to an extent the opinions of my alliance and in particular circumstances give rise to a valid "casus belli" claim.
Maximus Gladius	Posted - 2008.12.10 21:33:00 - [73] Originally by: Colonel Xaven Why don't you guys just adapt your fittings / tactics to the game? Instead I hear the word "change" or "nerf" way too often. Do you know why missiles are rarely used in PvP? It's not a damage tpye / bonus issue. Btw: Caldari are the only race who can select the damage type. Advantage enough? if it was, why arent caldari preferred for pvp?
El Yatta Mercenary Forces	Posted - 2008.12.10 21:45:00 - [74] There isn't a conceivable reason for Caldari to have ROF replace damage. Its a fundamental part of the design - caldari can operate at longer range but have to take a DPS hit to pick damage type. Amarr missile boats cant choose range unless they refit - and consequently take a DPS hit as they lose their bonus. Its a tradeoff. Drones are much the same - the Gallente racial damage type does the most, to get other types you have to take a DPS hit. _______________________________________________ Mercenary Forces
Randgris The Bastards The Bastards.	Posted - 2008.12.11 10:38:00 - [75] the bonus is balanced because it applies to ALL missiles so you get a bonus to frig sized weapons, cruiser sized weapons and bs sized weapons same goes for missile rof bonus (cerb) and missile velocity bonus (cerb) the versatility lies in the ability to fit undersized/oversized weapons and still be effective ------------------------------------------ Yes I know how my face looks like :D
Naomi Knight Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.12.11 11:38:00 - [76] Edited by: Naomi Knight on 11/12/2008 11:38:44 Originally by: Randgris the bonus is balanced because it applies to ALL missiles so you get a bonus to frig sized weapons, cruiser sized weapons and bs sized weapons same goes for missile rof bonus (cerb) and missile velocity bonus (cerb) the versatility lies in the ability to fit undersized/oversized weapons and still be effective So it is balanced ,because cerb gets is bonuses for missiles launchers it cant fit or shouldnt fit? Right.... Pls show me a good cruise missile fitted cerb or a good standard/rocket missile fitted cerb. Ccp should change these bonuses to only apply to HML HAML AL -s and double the bonuses because i lost my ability to get bonuse on Rocket L , standard L cruise L siege and citadel t L-s. I think that would be a fair trade. So new cerb bonuses should look like these: Caldari Cruiser Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to Kinetic dmg for Standard/ Heavy/ Heavy assault missiles /lvl 20% bonus to missile velocity for Standard/ Heavy/ Heavy assault missiles /lvl Heavy Assault Ship Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to Heavy Assault and Heavy Missile flight time and 10% bonus to Missile Launcher rate of fire for Assult/ Heavy/ Heavy assault missil launchers per level This should work, and would be balanced.
Naomi Knight Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.12.11 11:53:00 - [77] Originally by: El Yatta There isn't a conceivable reason for Caldari to have ROF replace damage. Its a fundamental part of the design - caldari can operate at longer range but have to take a DPS hit to pick damage type. Amarr missile boats cant choose range unless they refit - and consequently take a DPS hit as they lose their bonus. Its a tradeoff. Drones are much the same - the Gallente racial damage type does the most, to get other types you have to take a DPS hit. I've tought that the trade ofs for longer range ,should be enough without this specific kinetic bonus only. Lets see what trade ofs im speaking about: -slowest race -biggest signiture -biggest mass -slowest race when using mwd -no ability to fit tackler gear -no drone bay -below average dmg -delayed dmg -slowest targeting speed -bad resist against EM which is the most used dmg type usually -shield tank which increade sig even more -crappiest buffertank if you want to shoot at long range -cripling low pg and sometimes even cpu issues -fitting mwd usually makes it realy hard to fit anything else than its weapons and sensor boosters +bcus -useless missiles against smaller moving targets -small capacitor -small capacitor + high mass huge cap use with warps ,some systems need more than 1 warps while other races similar class ships can do it in 1 - one useless high slot which cant be fitted due to pg issue what you get for this is : - +50% range - little more sensor range which is not enough for your range anyway so you still need sensor boosters Thats all...
Silkworm992	Posted - 2008.12.11 12:38:00 - [78] Originally by: Colonel Xaven Originally by: Presidio Scorpion needs a damage bonus. It's not like it's going to be crazy dps with only 4 missile launchers. I have to confess that flying a Falcon is smarter than flying a Scorpion. Weaker tank though but you are more agile / flexible. And a Falcon is cheaper. The role of both ships is not DPS. So why do you say it needs a damage boost? That's exactly why it needs a bonus. Currently as it stands there is never any reason to pick a scorpion over rook. If you're planning on jamming and not to even mention falcon.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. The Firm.	Posted - 2008.12.11 12:43:00 - [79] Originally by: Randgris the bonus is balanced because it applies to ALL missiles so you get a bonus to frig sized weapons, cruiser sized weapons and bs sized weapons Unlike say the Dominix or Ishtar which only get bonuses to medium and large drones respectively, you mean?
Randgris The Bastards The Bastards.	Posted - 2008.12.11 13:24:00 - [80] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Randgris the bonus is balanced because it applies to ALL missiles so you get a bonus to frig sized weapons, cruiser sized weapons and bs sized weapons Unlike say the Dominix or Ishtar which only get bonuses to medium and large drones respectively, you mean? i never mentioned drones. yes they too have bonuses to undersized/oversized drones, what's your point? bandwidth limits it anyway. while the 5% kinetic missile bonus is less powerful than the 10% bonus to ANY drone it still gives you versatility in choosing weapon sizes seriously, try fitting assault launchers to your cerb and bbq some assault frigs/interceptors with it from long range. ------------------------------------------ Yes I know how my face looks like :D
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. The Firm.	Posted - 2008.12.11 13:33:00 - [81] Originally by: Randgris Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Randgris the bonus is balanced because it applies to ALL missiles so you get a bonus to frig sized weapons, cruiser sized weapons and bs sized weapons Unlike say the Dominix or Ishtar which only get bonuses to medium and large drones respectively, you mean? i never mentioned drones. yes they too have bonuses to undersized/oversized drones, what's your point? bandwidth limits it anyway. while the 5% kinetic missile bonus is less powerful than the 10% bonus to ANY drone it still gives you versatility in choosing weapon sizes seriously, try fitting assault launchers to your cerb and bbq some assault frigs/interceptors with it from long range. As long as they're not Gallante or Amarr...
BiggestT Caldari Resurrection Skunk-Works	Posted - 2008.12.11 13:37:00 - [82] Originally by: vostok Originally by: BiggestT This. Id be happy with Theron's suggestion if the non-kinetic missiles were also made faster/better explo velocity etc. Sorry, CCP though the average caldari pilot was to dumb to understand T1 missiles going different ranges. Hell there's still enough who don't know how to work out how far their missiles go even after they dock before trying to show info. Anyway, if your ships get damage bonuses to other damage types, I want bonuses to medium and small guns on my battleship and specifically, on my thorax! You see your noob thoughts are all well and good but it doesn't seem like any of you have thought this through at all. This thread is a prime example of why missiles are so dumbed down imo. Yeah, i was trying to spot a decent argument there, or even a good troll, but all i saw was that incompetent post. EVE history t2 precisions

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