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Shemaul
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Posted - 2008.12.09 11:51:00 -
[1]
After all the "balancing" done on missiles, i guess if it's the right time to put back the old "5% bonus on launcher damage" instead of the weird "5%bonus on kinetic missile damage".
What do u think about it?
It's still missiles too overpowered to make this change?
Do actual situation a bad thing to market (heavy missiles sold are only kinetic version 95% of the times)?
Do actual situation too "strange" for EVE rules (no other weapons gain damage on ammos instead of weapon, but caldari) even in PvP battles (if u wanna do damage, i know it's kinetic, if u wanna be unpredictable, u loose ship bonus)?
Devs should find a formula to make it balanced, but please, kinetic bonus it really a shame...
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Sheriff Jones
Amarr
Clinical Experiment
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Posted - 2008.12.09 11:55:00 -
[2]
It's kind of nice to have "specialized damage" ships, but either spread this to other ships(respectively boosting it), or bring back multi-damage bonus. I don't see any real harm.
My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit. |
Karille
Gallente
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams
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Posted - 2008.12.09 12:03:00 -
[3]
Other races are mostly predictable in their damage types or do a fixed combination of damages. It seems like they wanted to share this with the Caldari.
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madaluap
Gallente
Mercenary Forces
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Posted - 2008.12.09 12:10:00 -
[4]
Edited by: madaluap on 09/12/2008 12:10:16
I disagree, look @ it from this way:
When facing a domi most of the time you face thermal damage. This because ogre and garde deal the largest ammount of damage. When chosing other drones you do less damage, but gain more range/speed balanced by worse tracking.
On the other hand, its not like gallente only gets a damagebonus to thermal drones.
I think the situation is fine as it is atm.
_________________________________________________ |
Seibicoe
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Posted - 2008.12.09 12:11:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: madaluap
Edited by: madaluap on 09/12/2008 12:10:16
I disagree, look @ it from this way:
When facing a domi most of the time you face thermal damage. This because ogre and garde deal the largest ammount of damage. When chosing other drones you do less damage, but gain more range/speed balanced by worse tracking.
On the other hand, its not like gallente only gets a damagebonus to thermal drones.
I think the situation is fine as it is atm.
Good so the sac should have its bonuses changed to 5% HAM EM damage instead of 5% to HAM damage?
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madaluap
Gallente
Mercenary Forces
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Posted - 2008.12.09 12:14:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Seibicoe
Originally by: madaluap
Edited by: madaluap on 09/12/2008 12:10:16
I disagree, look @ it from this way:
When facing a domi most of the time you face thermal damage. This because ogre and garde deal the largest ammount of damage. When chosing other drones you do less damage, but gain more range/speed balanced by worse tracking.
On the other hand, its not like gallente only gets a damagebonus to thermal drones.
I think the situation is fine as it is atm.
Good so the sac should have its bonuses changed to 5% HAM EM damage instead of 5% to HAM damage?
Originally by: Title of topic
[Time to get back to Launcher Bonus on Caldari ships?
No offtopic whinage plz, start your own thread.
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Sheriff Jones
Amarr
Clinical Experiment
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Posted - 2008.12.09 12:15:00 -
[7]
Originally by: madaluap
Edited by: madaluap on 09/12/2008 12:10:16
I disagree, look @ it from this way:
When facing a domi most of the time you face thermal damage. This because ogre and garde deal the largest ammount of damage. When chosing other drones you do less damage, but gain more range/speed balanced by worse tracking.
On the other hand, its not like gallente only gets a damagebonus to thermal drones.
I think the situation is fine as it is atm.
Then how would you feel about a module that would cause your drones to unlock or be unable to perform?
My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit. |
Deviana Sevidon
Gallente
Panta-Rhei
United Front Alliance
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Posted - 2008.12.09 12:15:00 -
[8]
No, Caldari Ships like the Cerberus have a Bonus to HAM and HML but only for kinetic damage type. The Khanid Mk2 Ships have their Bonus for all damage types but only for the short ranged missiles.
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NoNah
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Posted - 2008.12.09 12:16:00 -
[9]
Originally by: madaluap
Edited by: madaluap on 09/12/2008 12:10:16
I disagree, look @ it from this way:
When facing a domi most of the time you face thermal damage. This because ogre and garde deal the largest ammount of damage. When chosing other drones you do less damage, but gain more range/speed balanced by worse tracking.
On the other hand, its not like gallente only gets a damagebonus to thermal drones.
I think the situation is fine as it is atm.
This is why I love the Helios. 
Parrots, commence!
Postcount: 830984
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Seibicoe
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Posted - 2008.12.09 12:18:00 -
[10]
Originally by: madaluap
Originally by: Seibicoe
Originally by: madaluap
Edited by: madaluap on 09/12/2008 12:10:16
I disagree, look @ it from this way:
When facing a domi most of the time you face thermal damage. This because ogre and garde deal the largest ammount of damage. When chosing other drones you do less damage, but gain more range/speed balanced by worse tracking.
On the other hand, its not like gallente only gets a damagebonus to thermal drones.
I think the situation is fine as it is atm.
Good so the sac should have its bonuses changed to 5% HAM EM damage instead of 5% to HAM damage?
Originally by: Title of topic
[Time to get back to Launcher Bonus on Caldari ships?
No offtopic whinage plz, start your own thread.
Its not off topic its totally relevant that some bonused missile ships do not get stuck with a particular damage type.
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madaluap
Gallente
Mercenary Forces
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Posted - 2008.12.09 12:19:00 -
[11]
Edited by: madaluap on 09/12/2008 12:19:33
Originally by: Sheriff Jones
Originally by: madaluap
Edited by: madaluap on 09/12/2008 12:10:16
I disagree, look @ it from this way:
When facing a domi most of the time you face thermal damage. This because ogre and garde deal the largest ammount of damage. When chosing other drones you do less damage, but gain more range/speed balanced by worse tracking.
On the other hand, its not like gallente only gets a damagebonus to thermal drones.
I think the situation is fine as it is atm.
Then how would you feel about a module that would cause your drones to unlock or be unable to perform?
Yeh like smartbombs, other drones, missiles, small guns (or medium if you move away from me) or even large when enemy hangs still and im using sentry...You mean that?
f.o.f?
_________________________________________________ |
Sheriff Jones
Amarr
Clinical Experiment
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Posted - 2008.12.09 12:25:00 -
[12]
Originally by: madaluap
Yeh like smartbombs, other drones, missiles, small guns (or medium if you move away from me) or even large when enemy hangs still and im using sentry...You mean that?
f.o.f?
Still no module that can be "lock/actiate"'d to remove your drones from play.
Don't compare drones and missiles, or drones and turrets, 'cause they are essentially different.
My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit. |
Naomi Knight
Amarr
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.12.09 12:25:00 -
[13]
Hmm maybe change projectile dmg bonunses to dmg bonus for nuclear and fusion ammos.
And change energy turret dmg bonus to em dmg bonus. That would be inline with missile ships.
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Colonel Xaven
Decadence.
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.12.09 12:36:00 -
[14]
Why don't you guys just adapt your fittings / tactics to the game? Instead I hear the word "change" or "nerf" way too often.
Do you know why missiles are rarely used in PvP? It's not a damage tpye / bonus issue.
Btw: Caldari are the only race who can select the damage type. Advantage enough?
Proud member of RZR - Decadence. |
Emperor Salazar
Caldari
Insidious Existence
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.12.09 12:36:00 -
[15]
Despite downsides to turrets (tracking, optimals), missiles will always be less efficient for pvp (particularly after Quantum Rise; not a whine, this was a necessary change to boost small ship utilization and gang cooperation). However, bottom line is that missiles are still weaker than turrets for pvp (that flight time really hurts in all forms of pvp, let it be solo, small gang or large fleet). An all-around R.o.F bonus instead of kinetic damage would be nice and much appreciated by all Caldari ship pilots. I never understood why CCP picked kinetic...
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TimMc
Gallente
Brutal Deliverance
OWN Alliance
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Posted - 2008.12.09 12:38:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Deviana Sevidon
No, Caldari Ships like the Cerberus have a Bonus to HAM and HML but only for kinetic damage type. The Khanid Mk2 Ships have their Bonus for all damage types but only for the short ranged missiles.
This.
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Shemaul
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Posted - 2008.12.09 13:00:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Colonel Xaven
Why don't you guys just adapt your fittings / tactics to the game? Instead I hear the word "change" or "nerf" way too often.
Do you know why missiles are rarely used in PvP? It's not a damage tpye / bonus issue.
Btw: Caldari are the only race who can select the damage type. Advantage enough?
Without explaining your points this replay is 100% useless.
1) I don't see any relation between ship bonus and fitting since we are talking about the difference between weapon bonus or ammo bonus.
2) Tell why missiles are rarely used in your opinion (i use them without any kind of problem since my rule in pvp it's not the damage dealer one -except for kessie-).
3) Explain "advantage" in doing only one kind of damage (and i say it again 3 of the 4 damages are less effective due to ammo bonus for most of caldari ship).
I really can't see how the choice of CCP to give bonus only to one ammo type can balance the weapons in EVE.
I can't see how could this be useful in balancing the game at all.
P.S. Drone comparison are nonsense in the terms showed above.
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Derek Sigres
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Posted - 2008.12.09 13:39:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Colonel Xaven
Why don't you guys just adapt your fittings / tactics to the game? Instead I hear the word "change" or "nerf" way too often.
Do you know why missiles are rarely used in PvP? It's not a damage tpye / bonus issue.
Btw: Caldari are the only race who can select the damage type. Advantage enough?
Minmatar ships also select their damage types, though not in a pure fashion since they tend to generate 2 - 3 damage types depending upon the ammunition they choose. Gallente ships often get a great deal of their DPS from Drones, and drones more or less operate as an analog to missiles. But like Caldari there is a favored damage type there as well - thermal. Amarr have a few ships in the linup that have true rainbow damage (Sacriledge, Vengeance) but for the most part they are stuck with dealing EM/Thermal damage, and even that operates on a sliding scale of how much is em and how much is thermal.
Every race has some capacity to select damage types, but they tend to favor certain damage types over others. Only TWO missile ships in the Caldari lineup have the capacity to truly select any damage type without sacrificing effeciency of the missile itself - the Raven and the Widow. Almost any Amarr ship will be generating some combination of em/thermal damage. Gallente ships favor thermal and kinetic damage. Minmitar ships often generate a large amount of explosive damage.
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Toshiro Khan
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.12.09 13:55:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Sheriff Jones
Still no module that can be "lock/actiate"'d to remove your drones from play.
Don't compare drones and missiles, or drones and turrets, 'cause they are essentially different.
There are a number of modules that can be used to remove drones from play..
Hmmm let me see turrets and missles tend to do the job rather nicely as do smart bombs and drones.
As to break lock of a drone... ECM burst's do the trick too..
Shame that a jammed missle ship can still fight with its F.O.Fs and that missles are not affected by tracking disrupters (well niether are drones.. So maybe a bad example, but a drone ship thats jammed before it can drop its drones doesn't put out any dps even when its drones are set to aggessive.)
So your right in as much as drones, turrets and missles shouldn't be compaired.. but wrong in saying that there isn't a mod that removes drones from play.
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Janu Hull
Caldari
Terra Incognita
Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2008.12.09 14:19:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Colonel Xaven
Btw: Caldari are the only race who can select the damage type. Advantage enough?
Minmatar gunners have a fair selection to use, too, ya know?
In the event of an emergency, my ego may be used as a floatation device.
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Naomi Knight
Amarr
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.12.09 14:32:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Naomi Knight on 09/12/2008 14:32:12
Gallente and amarr gunships can select their dmg too , nobody forces them to fit only hybrid or energy guns on them , so you can fit projectile or hybrid guns instead of energy guns on your zealot.You loose your ships bonuse,who cares i lose my ship bonust too if i dont fire kinetic missiles.
Oh and choosing dmg type in pvp does not work well.
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Tar om
Minmatar
Octavian Vanguard
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.12.09 15:03:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Naomi Knight
Hmm maybe change projectile dmg bonunses to dmg bonus for nuclear and fusion ammos.
And change energy turret dmg bonus to em dmg bonus. That would be inline with missile ships.
Thats just nerfing noobs, which is pretty unfair. T2 ammo only does two damage types, and is predictable.
--
DEVS get multiple CPUs/Cores per system and all will be forgiven.
Parallel Python |
Tar om
Minmatar
Octavian Vanguard
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.12.09 15:04:00 -
[23]
FoF are for mission runners - they are essentially worthless in PvP.
--
DEVS get multiple CPUs/Cores per system and all will be forgiven.
Parallel Python |
MyOwnSling
Gallente
Macabre Votum
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.12.09 15:08:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Naomi Knight
Edited by: Naomi Knight on 09/12/2008 14:32:12
Gallente and amarr gunships can select their dmg too , nobody forces them to fit only hybrid or energy guns on them , so you can fit projectile or hybrid guns instead of energy guns on your zealot.You loose your ships bonuse,who cares i lose my ship bonust too if i dont fire kinetic missiles.
Except you can change ammo after undocking/leaving pos/leaving carrier whereas that is not the case for turrets, so the comparison is not quite valid.
-------------
Stop whining.
Originally by: Puupuu
dude... your face...
Originally by: MooKids
I have an elite rating in HULL TANKING! That is like saying I can block punches with my face.
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vostok
Minmatar
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2008.12.09 15:21:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Sheriff Jones
Originally by: madaluap
Yeh like smartbombs, other drones, missiles, small guns (or medium if you move away from me) or even large when enemy hangs still and im using sentry...You mean that?
f.o.f?
Still no module that can be "lock/actiate"'d to remove your drones from play.
Don't compare drones and missiles, or drones and turrets, 'cause they are essentially different.
Your argument is terrible, they are different but they also must be essentially balanced or the game falls apart.
The thing that removes drones from play is damage, there's nothing unfair about that, on the other hand considering defenders don't do anything at all I would argue that there's no module that can take missiles out of play. (also, tracking disruptors)
- Adaptation is not an excuse for lack of ballance! -
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vostok
Minmatar
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2008.12.09 15:24:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Naomi Knight
Edited by: Naomi Knight on 09/12/2008 14:32:12
Gallente and amarr gunships can select their dmg too , nobody forces them to fit only hybrid or energy guns on them , so you can fit projectile or hybrid guns instead of energy guns on your zealot.You loose your ships bonuse,who cares i lose my ship bonust too if i dont fire kinetic missiles.
Oh and choosing dmg type in pvp does not work well.
That's possibly the worst thing I have ever read.
This thread is seriously weak, are you people actually arguing this?
- Adaptation is not an excuse for lack of ballance! -
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Shemaul
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Posted - 2008.12.09 16:09:00 -
[27]
Originally by: vostok
I would argue that there's no module that can take missiles out of play. (also, tracking disruptors)
If u can't target, u cannot fire, so ECM can do the job.
Probably i cannot understand what u mean, because there is no module that can neutralize a gun ammo once it fired.
As u saw tousands times for sure, there is a way to avoid fired missiles (if they are fired from distance): warp away, while guns do instadamage...
ANYWAY: this 3d was made to ask people if bringning launcher damage instead of kinetic damage could be done or not.
It's not another useless comparison between guns and missiles...
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vostok
Minmatar
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2008.12.09 16:17:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Shemaul
Originally by: vostok
I would argue that there's no module that can take missiles out of play. (also, tracking disruptors)
If u can't target, u cannot fire, so ECM can do the job.
Probably i cannot understand what u mean, because there is no module that can neutralize a gun ammo once it fired.
As u saw tousands times for sure, there is a way to avoid fired missiles (if they are fired from distance): warp away, while guns do instadamage...
ANYWAY: this 3d was made to ask people if bringning launcher damage instead of kinetic damage could be done or not.
It's not another useless comparison between guns and missiles...
ECM works on drones too if you hit the ship before it gets drones out not to mention the said ship then cannot pick what the drones attack.
Heres an example of this:
Me in domi with drones out, gets hit by a falcon and my drones engage...
My drones get to the falcon and then with no command from me return to me.
This actually happened to me!
All that said, I think missiles are fine, picking damage type is a powerful tool, The best example of seeing it in action is when you meet T2 ships and while you don't know their weak points, you know their strong points and you know you would be a fool to engage a gallente T2 ship with kinetic damage, on the other hand, what choice does a gallente pilot have when engaging a caldari T2 ship? Thermal or thermal. Same for amarr engaging minmatar, lasers do nothing when your target has 90% base resists to EM!
- Adaptation is not an excuse for lack of ballance! -
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Diomidis
Amarr
Mythos Corp
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.12.09 16:17:00 -
[29]
You are not seriously believing what you are writing, right?
Dmg type selection is not an advantage? Then why do you bring the Sacrilege and Khanid mkII in your comparisons? Aren't those the only 3 Amarrian ships (the curse doesn't count - it gets no missile related bonuses) that actually get to choose their dmg type? And that goes for HAM and Rockers ONLY, unlike the Raven/Golem that get all-around dmg/all around range freedom.
Yeah, what if the Drake or the Cerb only get bonuses for kinetic missiles? Aren't those good enough and unique already?
- would you like loosing the HML + velocity bonuses? Off course not! You would like to have the current range and dps + no penalty for choosing any dmg type available...
You wouldn't mind loosing sth, perhaps the HAM bonuses, but then you would whine that the close range Sac or the close range Zealot out-damages your 200km Cerb! You could also bring to surface a forgotten Deimos all-out blaster-gank fit to prove how gimped your 200km setup is...
After sorting out the dmg/range you would bring up the Sacrilege again, and ask for more cap and more tank and whatever for the Cerb...if you like the sac that much, dedicate a month and get it...
Don't ASK/DEMAND changes and sacrifices YOU would never accept yourself.
FFS, what a pathetic bunch of whiners!
Join the Biggest Greek Corp!
www.Mythos-eve.com - Join Mythos Channel in game! |
Zero Threat
Prox XII
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Posted - 2008.12.09 17:17:00 -
[30]
Also you have to remember, There is 2 types of cross damage Drones now so gallente can dish all 4 types of damage
em/exp drones + thermic kin with hybrids blasters/rails
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Grarr Dexx
Amarr
Paxton Industries
Paxton Federation
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Posted - 2008.12.09 17:43:00 -
[31]
Good, but only if you change all the races' bonuses to their inheritant damage type AND give them the full spectrum of ammo in every damage type.
-----
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Derek Sigres
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Posted - 2008.12.09 18:00:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Diomidis
Yeah, what if the Drake or the Cerb only get bonuses for kinetic missiles? Aren't those good enough and unique already?
Well, one of the two damage bonuses on the Cerb (15% ROF bonus) applies to all launchers, that a cruiser is expected to use. The second is the sterotypical kinetic damage bonus. The trouble is of course that kinetic is rarely the "best" option for delivering but by the same token it's rarely the worst (unless you're shooting at another caldari/gallente T2 ship). Would a pure rainbow damage bonus really be all that bad for the cerb or drake? Probably not, but is it necessary? Again, the answer is basically no.
With only a handful of exceptions (The Raven, Golem, Widow, Vengeance and Sacrieldge) every ship in the game has a favored damage type, and if they choose to ignore that bonus (such as autocannons on an Amarrian battleship as was fashionable for awhile) they take a substantial DPS hit. I see no reason why the same should not hold true for most ships - in fact it seems to make sense that ALL ships should have a favored damage type because there are certainly far more ships shoe horned into a particular flavor of damage than not.
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Myrkala
Minmatar
Aurora Acclivitous
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Posted - 2008.12.09 18:01:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Tar om
FoF are for mission runners - they are essentially worthless in PvP.
BUT, you would like to have some in your hold for when you are "perma"-jammed, wouldn't you?
At least you can do some damage, essentially the jammer is wasting points on you.
You just need a little luck with placement that's all. :)
"Ruppie ain't no puppie." |
Presidio
Minmatar
ZipZoom Kaboom
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Posted - 2008.12.09 18:33:00 -
[34]
Scorpion needs a damage bonus. It's not like it's going to be crazy dps with only 4 missile launchers.
-
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Cade Morrigan
Caldari
TARSHISH FOUNDATION
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Posted - 2008.12.09 18:58:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Cade Morrigan on 09/12/2008 18:58:26
Originally by: Presidio
Scorpion needs a damage bonus. It's not like it's going to be crazy dps with only 4 missile launchers.
Yeah but 4 launchers and 8 target painters, holy ****?!?!?! ;)
-= Don't you DARE call her ugly! =-
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Derek Sigres
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Posted - 2008.12.09 19:02:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Cade Morrigan
Edited by: Cade Morrigan on 09/12/2008 18:58:26
Originally by: Presidio
Scorpion needs a damage bonus. It's not like it's going to be crazy dps with only 4 missile launchers.
Yeah but 4 launchers and 8 target painters, holy ****?!?!?! ;)
If only painters didn't stack. Sure your pure DPS wouldn't be good and your tank wouldn't exist but hey - at least you can annihilate any frigate instantly.
Actually, if the scorpion had say 12 mid slots and 0 low slots I think it'd be one of the most awesome ships ever. Painters, jammers, remote ECCM the whole support package in one giant rack. Though, even if the scorpion had the fabled 8,8,8 slot arrangement it'd still be a terrible ship because it's terrible to look at.
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N.
The Firm.
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Posted - 2008.12.09 20:56:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Derek Sigres
Originally by: Cade Morrigan
Edited by: Cade Morrigan on 09/12/2008 18:58:26
Originally by: Presidio
Scorpion needs a damage bonus. It's not like it's going to be crazy dps with only 4 missile launchers.
Yeah but 4 launchers and 8 target painters, holy ****?!?!?! ;)
If only painters didn't stack. Sure your pure DPS wouldn't be good and your tank wouldn't exist but hey - at least you can annihilate any frigate instantly.
Actually, if the scorpion had say 12 mid slots and 0 low slots I think it'd be one of the most awesome ships ever. Painters, jammers, remote ECCM the whole support package in one giant rack. Though, even if the scorpion had the fabled 8,8,8 slot arrangement it'd still be a terrible ship because it's terrible to look at.
Deary me and it seems like only yesterday that we were talking about how the scorpion is almost a good ship.
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vostok
Minmatar
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2008.12.09 21:43:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Malcanis
Deary me and it seems like only yesterday that we were talking about how the scorpion is almost a good ship.
Yea ECM sucks, scorp def needs a boost 
- Adaptation is not an excuse for lack of ballance! -
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Naomi Knight
Amarr
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.12.09 21:45:00 -
[39]
Why is changeable dmg type is good in pvp?
There is no answer for that question, because it isn't.
?ost of the ppl just fit for omni tank anyway. You cant even know what will be the best dmg to do , as most fleets consist of different type of ships with different resist holes,only exception when your gang ganks a lone bs somewhere but that would die anyway +-1-2sec.
And even if you bring the other dmg type missiles in your cerb and reload it on a quess, which is the targets lowest resist it wont make you do more dmg.Most of the time you would be better off just fire kinetics with ship bonuses. So it is like there is only 2 ammo types for caldari missile ships , caldari navy kinetic and t2 high dmg for big targets as not kinetics dmg ammo leaves you unbonused and precision missiles are just plain useless.
I see no reason why not change caldari missile ships kinetic bonuses for dmg bonuses.
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vostok
Minmatar
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2008.12.09 21:50:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Naomi Knight
I see no reason why not change caldari missile ships kinetic bonuses for dmg bonuses.
Because it is a pointless buff that it totally unnecessary and will serve only to allow caldari ships to fly with thermal missiles which just about everything has lower base resists to.
- Adaptation is not an excuse for lack of ballance! -
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StainLessStealRat
Firman AB
101010 Alliance
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Posted - 2008.12.10 00:52:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Sheriff Jones
Originally by: madaluap
Edited by: madaluap on 09/12/2008 12:10:16
I disagree, look @ it from this way:
When facing a domi most of the time you face thermal damage. This because ogre and garde deal the largest ammount of damage. When chosing other drones you do less damage, but gain more range/speed balanced by worse tracking.
On the other hand, its not like gallente only gets a damagebonus to thermal drones.
I think the situation is fine as it is atm.
Then how would you feel about a module that would cause your drones to unlock or be unable to perform?
Like ECM BUST mabey ,
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vostok
Minmatar
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2008.12.10 01:55:00 -
[42]
Originally by: StainLessStealRat
Like ECM BUST mabey ,
You have a 100% chance of jamming a light drone, around a 12% chance of jamming a hammerhead 2 drone and about a 1% chance of jamming an ogre 2.
And after that they will instantly relock you.
- Adaptation is not an excuse for lack of ballance! -
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Foulque
|
Posted - 2008.12.10 02:06:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Naomi Knight
Hmm maybe change projectile dmg bonunses to dmg bonus for nuclear and fusion ammos.
And change energy turret dmg bonus to em dmg bonus. That would be inline with missile ships.
Yeah cause that whole unrestricted damage bonus is giving my lasers way too much kinetic damage.
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fuxinos
Caldari
Guys 0f Sarcasm
|
Posted - 2008.12.10 02:09:00 -
[44]
See it from that side guys, currently missiles dont have any advantages over turrets at all, infact they have way more disadvantages.
Plus all the extra disadvantages that Caldariships already have...im glad i switched to Amarr.
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Derek Sigres
|
Posted - 2008.12.10 02:09:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Derek Sigres
Originally by: Cade Morrigan
Edited by: Cade Morrigan on 09/12/2008 18:58:26
Originally by: Presidio
Scorpion needs a damage bonus. It's not like it's going to be crazy dps with only 4 missile launchers.
Yeah but 4 launchers and 8 target painters, holy ****?!?!?! ;)
If only painters didn't stack. Sure your pure DPS wouldn't be good and your tank wouldn't exist but hey - at least you can annihilate any frigate instantly.
Actually, if the scorpion had say 12 mid slots and 0 low slots I think it'd be one of the most awesome ships ever. Painters, jammers, remote ECCM the whole support package in one giant rack. Though, even if the scorpion had the fabled 8,8,8 slot arrangement it'd still be a terrible ship because it's terrible to look at.
Deary me and it seems like only yesterday that we were talking about how the scorpion is almost a good ship.
Apparently I get a -10 penalty to internet sarcasm during finals week.
I do believe the scorpin is ALMOST there in so many ways. If just had a bit more jam strength, or a bit more durability or a bit more firepower it would be the ultimate Solo ship. As it stands, it's just a little shy on everything to make it a GREAT ship, and it remains simply a competent and fully expendible gang ship. Besides, if they ever did make the scorpion completely badass, they seriously need to make it look less horrid.
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vostok
Minmatar
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
|
Posted - 2008.12.10 02:10:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Foulque
Originally by: Naomi Knight
Hmm maybe change projectile dmg bonunses to dmg bonus for nuclear and fusion ammos.
And change energy turret dmg bonus to em dmg bonus. That would be inline with missile ships.
Yeah cause that whole unrestricted damage bonus is giving my lasers way too much kinetic damage.
Damn it, I hate those explosive lasers!
- Adaptation is not an excuse for lack of ballance! -
|
vostok
Minmatar
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
|
Posted - 2008.12.10 02:12:00 -
[47]
Edited by: vostok on 10/12/2008 02:14:10
Originally by: Derek Sigres
Apparently I get a -10 penalty to internet sarcasm during finals week.
I do believe the scorpin is ALMOST there in so many ways. If just had a bit more jam strength, or a bit more durability or a bit more firepower it would be the ultimate Solo ship. As it stands, it's just a little shy on everything to make it a GREAT ship, and it remains simply a competent and fully expendible gang ship. balanced.
Fixed.
- Adaptation is not an excuse for lack of ballance! -
|
Derek Sigres
|
Posted - 2008.12.10 02:14:00 -
[48]
Originally by: vostok
Originally by: Derek Sigres
Apparently I get a -10 penalty to internet sarcasm during finals week.
I do believe the scorpin is ALMOST there in so many ways. If just had a bit more jam strength, or a bit more durability or a bit more firepower it would be the ultimate Solo ship. As it stands, it's just a little shy on everything to make it a GREAT ship, and it remains simply a competent and fully expendible gang ship. Besides, if they ever did make the scorpion completely badass, they seriously need to make it look less horrid. balanced.
Fixed.
Nope, you didn't fix it because I said exactly what I meant. As it stands the scorpion is expendible and competent. Every job it can do some other ship does better but few can do it in a package so readily replaced. Balance has nothing to do with it. Afterall, imbalance is what people are seeking - not competence.
|
Derek Sigres
|
Posted - 2008.12.10 02:16:00 -
[49]
Originally by: vostok
Originally by: Foulque
Originally by: Naomi Knight
Hmm maybe change projectile dmg bonunses to dmg bonus for nuclear and fusion ammos.
And change energy turret dmg bonus to em dmg bonus. That would be inline with missile ships.
Yeah cause that whole unrestricted damage bonus is giving my lasers way too much kinetic damage.
Damn it, I hate those explosive lasers!
Really, I guess you COULD make an excuse to have explosive lasers. Afterall, rapid heating of armor could cause an explosion. . . And why NOT give projectile turrets a bonus to EM damage.
|
vostok
Minmatar
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
|
Posted - 2008.12.10 02:18:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Derek Sigres
Nope, you didn't fix it because I said exactly what I meant. As it stands the scorpion is expendible and competent. Every job it can do some other ship does better but few can do it in a package so readily replaced. Balance has nothing to do with it. Afterall, imbalance is what people are seeking - not competence.
So what are you saying, it should e better for the same cost? When you're saying it's fine as it is.
Why not look at ships that actually have issues, like minmatar battleships, or the freshly nerfed gallente blaster boats. Or even the nerf and secret nerf to the eos.
- Adaptation is not an excuse for lack of ballance! -
|
Derek Sigres
|
Posted - 2008.12.10 02:22:00 -
[51]
Originally by: vostok
Originally by: Derek Sigres
Nope, you didn't fix it because I said exactly what I meant. As it stands the scorpion is expendible and competent. Every job it can do some other ship does better but few can do it in a package so readily replaced. Balance has nothing to do with it. Afterall, imbalance is what people are seeking - not competence.
So what are you saying, it should e better for the same cost? When you're saying it's fine as it is.
Why not look at ships that actually have issues, like minmatar battleships, or the freshly nerfed gallente blaster boats. Or even the nerf and secret nerf to the eos.
I said nothing of the sort. I did not even imply anything of the sort. I said it is ever so close to being a GREAT ship, and then said if it ever did become a great ship it needs a less crappy model to go with it. No part of that either states or implies that I think the scorpion needs a boost. My very first comment was a poor attempt at sarcasm that obviously failed,though I assumed suggesting 12 mid slots when the game supports only 8, or having a ship that has a full 24 slots when even the titans aren't granted that honor would be enough to let people in on that.
In short - take your torch elsewhere - there are plenty of people to throw your flames at 
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vostok
Minmatar
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
|
Posted - 2008.12.10 02:22:00 -
[52]
Edited by: vostok on 10/12/2008 02:24:59
Originally by: Derek Sigres
Originally by: vostok
Originally by: Foulque
Originally by: Naomi Knight
Hmm maybe change projectile dmg bonunses to dmg bonus for nuclear and fusion ammos.
And change energy turret dmg bonus to em dmg bonus. That would be inline with missile ships.
Yeah cause that whole unrestricted damage bonus is giving my lasers way too much kinetic damage.
Damn it, I hate those explosive lasers!
Really, I guess you COULD make an excuse to have explosive lasers. Afterall, rapid heating of armor could cause an explosion. . . And why NOT give projectile turrets a bonus to EM damage.
OMG seriously are you thick?!
Missiles get a bonus to kinetic damage, so their damage is increased by 100% of the bonus when they use kinetic ammo.
If lasers or projectiles only got a bonus to EM or Thermal or whatever, they would never receive their full damage bonus...
This should not have needed to be explained.
Edit: Sorry, Amarr would with radio, but still, please don't keep this going.
- Adaptation is not an excuse for lack of ballance! -
|
Derek Sigres
|
Posted - 2008.12.10 02:25:00 -
[53]
Originally by: vostok
OMG seriously are you thick?!
Missiles get a bonus to kinetic damage, so their damage is increased by 100% of the bonus when they use kinetic ammo.
If lasers or projectiles only got a bonus to EM or Thermal or whatever, they would never receive their full damage bonus...
This should not have needed to be explained.
You're fun AND easy to tweak.
|
vostok
Minmatar
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
|
Posted - 2008.12.10 02:28:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Derek Sigres
Originally by: vostok
OMG seriously are you thick?!
Missiles get a bonus to kinetic damage, so their damage is increased by 100% of the bonus when they use kinetic ammo.
If lasers or projectiles only got a bonus to EM or Thermal or whatever, they would never receive their full damage bonus...
This should not have needed to be explained.
You're fun AND easy to tweak.
I've given up assuming people are being sarcastic on the internet. Its easier to assume people are thick until they have proven themselves otherwise.
- Adaptation is not an excuse for lack of ballance! -
|
Derek Sigres
|
Posted - 2008.12.10 02:32:00 -
[55]
Originally by: vostok
Originally by: Derek Sigres
Originally by: vostok
OMG seriously are you thick?!
Missiles get a bonus to kinetic damage, so their damage is increased by 100% of the bonus when they use kinetic ammo.
If lasers or projectiles only got a bonus to EM or Thermal or whatever, they would never receive their full damage bonus...
This should not have needed to be explained.
You're fun AND easy to tweak.
I've given up assuming people are being sarcastic on the internet. Its easier to assume people are thick until they have proven themselves otherwise.
If you'd look through the thread at my previous comments I am not of the opinion that missile ships ALL need to have rainbow damage. I even assert that logically, given the scarcity of ships that truly have no prefered damage type that those ships should have a favored type instead.
|
vostok
Minmatar
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
|
Posted - 2008.12.10 02:42:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Derek Sigres
If you'd look through the thread at my previous comments I am not of the opinion that missile ships ALL need to have rainbow damage. I even assert that logically, given the scarcity of ships that truly have no prefered damage type that those ships should have a favored type instead.
IMO the only ships viable for it would be the drone boats and that would somewhat diminish the purpose of the new drones (which might as well be non existent).
But some of your later comments... Seriously, I am scared that CCP would take that kind of crap seriously.
- Adaptation is not an excuse for lack of ballance! -
|
Derek Sigres
|
Posted - 2008.12.10 03:02:00 -
[57]
Originally by: vostok
Originally by: Derek Sigres
If you'd look through the thread at my previous comments I am not of the opinion that missile ships ALL need to have rainbow damage. I even assert that logically, given the scarcity of ships that truly have no prefered damage type that those ships should have a favored type instead.
IMO the only ships viable for it would be the drone boats and that would somewhat diminish the purpose of the new drones (which might as well be non existent).
But some of your later comments... Seriously, I am scared that CCP would take that kind of crap seriously.
It's not like I'm the first person with a crappy idea to be taken seriously by them.
But on the topic of drones, there is a built in prefered damage type: thermal. Sure, warriors and valks are there to help chase down the speedy little ships. And sure people ocasionally use the kinetic sentry drones from time to time. But when a drone boat goes out to kick in teeth, they bring the hobgoblins, hammerheads and ogres.
As a caldari pilot I don't really view my small drone bays as a substantial DPS addition - instead I use them to help round out my ships, offering defense against frigates or perhaps ECM cover against an equal foe. Rarely do the thermal drones make their way into my dronebay for PVP, because I don't fly ships with a large enough bay to carry more than one flight anyhow.
|
BiggestT
Caldari
Resurrection
Skunk-Works
|
Posted - 2008.12.10 04:24:00 -
[58]
Edited by: BiggestT on 10/12/2008 04:25:10
Originally by: Shemaul
After all the "balancing" done on missiles, i guess if it's the right time to put back the old "5% bonus on launcher damage" instead of the weird "5%bonus on kinetic missile damage".
What do u think about it?
It's still missiles too overpowered to make this change?
Do actual situation a bad thing to market (heavy missiles sold are only kinetic version 95% of the times)?
Do actual situation too "strange" for EVE rules (no other weapons gain damage on ammos instead of weapon, but caldari) even in PvP battles (if u wanna do damage, i know it's kinetic, if u wanna be unpredictable, u loose ship bonus)?
Devs should find a formula to make it balanced, but please, kinetic bonus it really a shame...
I agree,
They say that gallente are confined to thermal, but they arent. They chose the higher dps drones sure, but they can still chose any other kind of drone and get the bonus.
Ppl that say caldari can "sort of" chose their damage type are just silly, as we LOSE a bonus doing that. Gallente dont.
Minmatar get flexibility in damage types, but still must shoot explosive, kinetic etc. However people forget that many minmi ships have large drones bays, allowing more variety on damage types. Not one cal sub-cap-ship can field 5 heavies. Or 4 heavies. Hmm...I guess its all in the design focus, but it still means cladari are more limited to one damage type.
More caldari ships shld be like the raven (no kin dmg bonus), thats not overpowered.
EVE history
t2 precisions |
Theron Gyrow
Gradient
Electus Matari
|
Posted - 2008.12.10 08:30:00 -
[59]
Originally by: BiggestT
They say that gallente are confined to thermal, but they arent. They chose the higher dps drones sure, but they can still chose any other kind of drone and get the bonus.
Ppl that say caldari can "sort of" chose their damage type are just silly, as we LOSE a bonus doing that. Gallente dont.
So, to match the situation with drones, you suggest that thermal, EM and explosive missiles should lose some 15-25% of their damage output depending on their damage type but Caldari should get a damage bonus for all kinds of missiles? Fair enough.
--
Gradient forum |
Naomi Knight
Amarr
Imperial Academy
|
Posted - 2008.12.10 08:40:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Theron Gyrow
Originally by: BiggestT
They say that gallente are confined to thermal, but they arent. They chose the higher dps drones sure, but they can still chose any other kind of drone and get the bonus.
Ppl that say caldari can "sort of" chose their damage type are just silly, as we LOSE a bonus doing that. Gallente dont.
So, to match the situation with drones, you suggest that thermal, EM and explosive missiles should lose some 15-25% of their damage output depending on their damage type but Caldari should get a damage bonus for all kinds of missiles? Fair enough.
So you are those eft warriors who only read dps stat? As less dmg drones are faster than tha snailslow thermal ones.
|
Colonel Xaven
Decadence.
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.12.10 08:56:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Presidio
Scorpion needs a damage bonus. It's not like it's going to be crazy dps with only 4 missile launchers.
I have to confess that flying a Falcon is smarter than flying a Scorpion. Weaker tank though but you are more agile / flexible. And a Falcon is cheaper. The role of both ships is not DPS.
So why do you say it needs a damage boost?
Proud member of RZR - Decadence. |
Naomi Knight
Amarr
Imperial Academy
|
Posted - 2008.12.10 09:03:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Colonel Xaven
Originally by: Presidio
Scorpion needs a damage bonus. It's not like it's going to be crazy dps with only 4 missile launchers.
I have to confess that flying a Falcon is smarter than flying a Scorpion. Weaker tank though but you are more agile / flexible. And a Falcon is cheaper. The role of both ships is not DPS.
So why do you say it needs a damage boost?
You are a razor member ,so i try to answer it clearly. Many ships are multirole ,so they can do tackle and dmg with the same fit like the vagabond. Falcon is a one role ship like most of the caldari ships, but if you give scorpion a dmg boost it would became a multirole ship and could do acceptable dmg while still able to jamm some targets.
|
BiggestT
Caldari
Resurrection
Skunk-Works
|
Posted - 2008.12.10 09:43:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Naomi Knight
Originally by: Theron Gyrow
Originally by: BiggestT
They say that gallente are confined to thermal, but they arent. They chose the higher dps drones sure, but they can still chose any other kind of drone and get the bonus.
Ppl that say caldari can "sort of" chose their damage type are just silly, as we LOSE a bonus doing that. Gallente dont.
So, to match the situation with drones, you suggest that thermal, EM and explosive missiles should lose some 15-25% of their damage output depending on their damage type but Caldari should get a damage bonus for all kinds of missiles? Fair enough.
So you are those eft warriors who only read dps stat? As less dmg drones are faster than tha snailslow thermal ones.
This.
Id be happy with Theron's suggestion if the non-kinetic missiles were also made faster/better explo velocity etc.
EVE history
t2 precisions |
Theron Gyrow
Gradient
Electus Matari
|
Posted - 2008.12.10 09:43:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Naomi Knight
Originally by: Theron Gyrow
Originally by: BiggestT
They say that gallente are confined to thermal, but they arent. They chose the higher dps drones sure, but they can still chose any other kind of drone and get the bonus.
Ppl that say caldari can "sort of" chose their damage type are just silly, as we LOSE a bonus doing that. Gallente dont.
So, to match the situation with drones, you suggest that thermal, EM and explosive missiles should lose some 15-25% of their damage output depending on their damage type but Caldari should get a damage bonus for all kinds of missiles? Fair enough.
So you are those eft warriors who only read dps stat? As less dmg drones are faster than tha snailslow thermal ones.
Fair point, we'd need to slow the kinetic missiles too if this was done. But hey, Caldari wouldn't lose a bonus using the other missiles, and that's what counts, right?
--
Gradient forum |
BiggestT
Caldari
Resurrection
Skunk-Works
|
Posted - 2008.12.10 09:46:00 -
[65]
Edited by: BiggestT on 10/12/2008 09:47:07
Edited by: BiggestT on 10/12/2008 09:46:36
Originally by: Theron Gyrow
Fair point, we'd need to slow the kinetic missiles too if this was done. But hey, Caldari wouldn't lose a bonus using the other missiles, and that's what counts, right?
No, the other missiles would speed up.
Its not like, when drones were being concieved, that minmatar drones were the standard speed and everything else was made slower.
I'd think that thermal drones wld be the standard speed, and that everything else was made faster.
As should be the case with kinetic missiles vs. non-kinetic missiles.
EVE history
t2 precisions |
Colonel Xaven
Decadence.
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.12.10 10:37:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Naomi Knight
Many ships are multirole ,so they can do tackle and dmg with the same fit like the vagabond. Falcon is a one role ship like most of the caldari ships, but if you give scorpion a dmg boost it would became a multirole ship and could do acceptable dmg while still able to jamm some targets.
Which BS is multirole?
Proud member of RZR - Decadence. |
fkingfurious
|
Posted - 2008.12.10 11:11:00 -
[67]
Edited by: fkingfurious on 10/12/2008 11:11:45
Giving Caldari missile boats a flat damage bonus gimps the **** out of Gallente Tech 2 as well don't forget.
All Tech 2 ships (with resists) are tailored to screw the primary damage type of their storyline enemy. Hence lasers bonuce of Vagabonds, Barrage rattles off Zealots and close range blaster ammo and Hammerheads fail against cerbs.
And as things stand, those bonused kinetics actually come up short on DPS vs. Tech 2 Gallente compared to using an unbonused explosive. And as Caldari (or Khanid to some extent) are the only race that bonuses kinetic damage (noone in their right mind is going to pvp with titanium sabot loaded) giving Cladari full damage flexibility makes a mockery of Gallente Tech2 resists. In order to keep them inline with the Eve backstory Gallente would have to develop Tech2 resists that counter everything.
Which is fine by me.
|
Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N.
The Firm.
|
Posted - 2008.12.10 11:16:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Theron Gyrow
Originally by: BiggestT
They say that gallente are confined to thermal, but they arent. They chose the higher dps drones sure, but they can still chose any other kind of drone and get the bonus.
Ppl that say caldari can "sort of" chose their damage type are just silly, as we LOSE a bonus doing that. Gallente dont.
So, to match the situation with drones, you suggest that thermal, EM and explosive missiles should lose some 15-25% of their damage output depending on their damage type but Caldari should get a damage bonus for all kinds of missiles? Fair enough.
Sounds good, as long as Explosive missiles go 25% faster and have 25% better explosion velocity/radius.
|
Nia Yiq
|
Posted - 2008.12.10 11:19:00 -
[69]
I haven't read it all trough but this is just my point of view.
Mim do damge all across the bord depending on ammotype they chose. some do more dmage have less range and the other way around. (mim is just wierd with ammo IMHO)
gal can choose between drones and can sacrifise fdamge for speed. most used rones remain gal and mim ones. thier hybrids are allways stuck with therm/kin
amarr can select drones to on a lesser acount often used mim for that 3th damge type. but thier lasers are stuck with em/therm
Caldari can go kinetic missles as it allmost enevr happens you encount someone with 25% less resitance ellswhear than kin. drones are to little of use due small drone bays. so we are pretty much stuck to 1 damge type. which is sadly enough pretty high on the resit graph of most ships but not that high that we can drop the 25% bonus for a other damge type to deal more damge.
Point is gal, amarr and mim can deal 3 to 4 diffeent types of damge with a minor trade off in damge but gaining other atributes. caldari kin ships only deal 1 with verry little addon from thier light drones sometimes to a seconf type.
My suggestion give cal kin bonussed ships a second damge type bonus together with the kin one. this would alow them to deal 2 damge types at good efficency or even give it a lesser bonus to EM or explisive as these are often lower in the tanked resist graph.
so:
1: add a 5% therm bonus
2: add a 3-4% em/explosive bonus.
We get a other damge type without overpowering our missles.
|
madaluap
Gallente
Mercenary Forces
|
Posted - 2008.12.10 12:34:00 -
[70]
Edited by: madaluap on 10/12/2008 12:34:16
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Theron Gyrow
Originally by: BiggestT
They say that gallente are confined to thermal, but they arent. They chose the higher dps drones sure, but they can still chose any other kind of drone and get the bonus.
Ppl that say caldari can "sort of" chose their damage type are just silly, as we LOSE a bonus doing that. Gallente dont.
So, to match the situation with drones, you suggest that thermal, EM and explosive missiles should lose some 15-25% of their damage output depending on their damage type but Caldari should get a damage bonus for all kinds of missiles? Fair enough.
Sounds good, as long as Explosive missiles go 25% faster and have 25% better explosion velocity/radius.
Agreed, caldari minmatar would love this change 
_________________________________________________ |
vostok
Minmatar
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
|
Posted - 2008.12.10 14:26:00 -
[71]
Originally by: BiggestT
This.
Id be happy with Theron's suggestion if the non-kinetic missiles were also made faster/better explo velocity etc.
Sorry, CCP though the average caldari pilot was to dumb to understand T1 missiles going different ranges.
Hell there's still enough who don't know how to work out how far their missiles go even after they dock before trying to show info.
Anyway, if your ships get damage bonuses to other damage types, I want bonuses to medium and small guns on my battleship and specifically, on my thorax!
You see your noob thoughts are all well and good but it doesn't seem like any of you have thought this through at all.
This thread is a prime example of why missiles are so dumbed down imo.
- Adaptation is not an excuse for lack of ballance! -
|
Crellion
Art of War
Exalted.
|
Posted - 2008.12.10 15:17:00 -
[72]
What does it matter anyway in the day of omnitank?
I think its probably allright to give them straigt dmg bonus but not that important a topic anyway... I am sort of tempted to read what people filled 3 pages with but I think I will actually pass...
Arguably my opinions represent to an extent the opinions of my alliance and in particular circumstances give rise to a valid "casus belli" claim. |
Maximus Gladius
|
Posted - 2008.12.10 21:33:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Colonel Xaven
Why don't you guys just adapt your fittings / tactics to the game? Instead I hear the word "change" or "nerf" way too often.
Do you know why missiles are rarely used in PvP? It's not a damage tpye / bonus issue.
Btw: Caldari are the only race who can select the damage type. Advantage enough?
if it was, why arent caldari preferred for pvp?
|
El Yatta
Mercenary Forces
|
Posted - 2008.12.10 21:45:00 -
[74]
There isn't a conceivable reason for Caldari to have ROF replace damage.
Its a fundamental part of the design - caldari can operate at longer range but have to take a DPS hit to pick damage type.
Amarr missile boats cant choose range unless they refit - and consequently take a DPS hit as they lose their bonus.
Its a tradeoff.
Drones are much the same - the Gallente racial damage type does the most, to get other types you have to take a DPS hit.
_______________________________________________
Mercenary Forces |
Randgris
The Bastards
The Bastards.
|
Posted - 2008.12.11 10:38:00 -
[75]
the bonus is balanced because it applies to ALL missiles
so you get a bonus to frig sized weapons, cruiser sized weapons and bs sized weapons
same goes for missile rof bonus (cerb) and missile velocity bonus (cerb)
the versatility lies in the ability to fit undersized/oversized weapons and still be effective
------------------------------------------
Yes I know how my face looks like :D |
Naomi Knight
Amarr
Imperial Academy
|
Posted - 2008.12.11 11:38:00 -
[76]
Edited by: Naomi Knight on 11/12/2008 11:38:44
Originally by: Randgris
the bonus is balanced because it applies to ALL missiles
so you get a bonus to frig sized weapons, cruiser sized weapons and bs sized weapons
same goes for missile rof bonus (cerb) and missile velocity bonus (cerb)
the versatility lies in the ability to fit undersized/oversized weapons and still be effective
So it is balanced ,because cerb gets is bonuses for missiles launchers it cant fit or shouldnt fit? Right....
Pls show me a good cruise missile fitted cerb or a good standard/rocket missile fitted cerb.
Ccp should change these bonuses to only apply to HML HAML AL -s and double the bonuses because i lost my ability to get bonuse on Rocket L , standard L cruise L siege and citadel t L-s. I think that would be a fair trade.
So new cerb bonuses should look like these:
Caldari Cruiser Skill Bonus:
10% bonus to Kinetic dmg for Standard/ Heavy/ Heavy assault missiles /lvl
20% bonus to missile velocity for Standard/ Heavy/ Heavy assault missiles /lvl
Heavy Assault Ship Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to Heavy Assault and Heavy Missile flight time and 10% bonus to Missile Launcher rate of fire for Assult/ Heavy/ Heavy assault missil launchers per level
This should work, and would be balanced.
|
Naomi Knight
Amarr
Imperial Academy
|
Posted - 2008.12.11 11:53:00 -
[77]
Originally by: El Yatta
There isn't a conceivable reason for Caldari to have ROF replace damage.
Its a fundamental part of the design - caldari can operate at longer range but have to take a DPS hit to pick damage type.
Amarr missile boats cant choose range unless they refit - and consequently take a DPS hit as they lose their bonus.
Its a tradeoff.
Drones are much the same - the Gallente racial damage type does the most, to get other types you have to take a DPS hit.
I've tought that the trade ofs for longer range ,should be enough without this specific kinetic bonus only.
Lets see what trade ofs im speaking about:
-slowest race
-biggest signiture
-biggest mass
-slowest race when using mwd
-no ability to fit tackler gear
-no drone bay
-below average dmg
-delayed dmg
-slowest targeting speed
-bad resist against EM which is the most used dmg type usually
-shield tank which increade sig even more
-crappiest buffertank if you want to shoot at long range
-cripling low pg and sometimes even cpu issues
-fitting mwd usually makes it realy hard to fit anything else than its weapons and sensor boosters +bcus
-useless missiles against smaller moving targets
-small capacitor
-small capacitor + high mass huge cap use with warps ,some systems need more than 1 warps while other races similar class ships can do it in 1
- one useless high slot which cant be fitted due to pg issue
what you get for this is :
- +50% range
- little more sensor range which is not enough for your range anyway so you still need sensor boosters
Thats all...
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Silkworm992
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Posted - 2008.12.11 12:38:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Colonel Xaven
Originally by: Presidio
Scorpion needs a damage bonus. It's not like it's going to be crazy dps with only 4 missile launchers.
I have to confess that flying a Falcon is smarter than flying a Scorpion. Weaker tank though but you are more agile / flexible. And a Falcon is cheaper. The role of both ships is not DPS.
So why do you say it needs a damage boost?
That's exactly why it needs a bonus. Currently as it stands there is never any reason to pick a scorpion over rook. If you're planning on jamming and not to even mention falcon.
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N.
The Firm.
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Posted - 2008.12.11 12:43:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Randgris
the bonus is balanced because it applies to ALL missiles
so you get a bonus to frig sized weapons, cruiser sized weapons and bs sized weapons
Unlike say the Dominix or Ishtar which only get bonuses to medium and large drones respectively, you mean?
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Randgris
The Bastards
The Bastards.
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Posted - 2008.12.11 13:24:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Randgris
the bonus is balanced because it applies to ALL missiles
so you get a bonus to frig sized weapons, cruiser sized weapons and bs sized weapons
Unlike say the Dominix or Ishtar which only get bonuses to medium and large drones respectively, you mean?
i never mentioned drones. yes they too have bonuses to undersized/oversized drones, what's your point? bandwidth limits it anyway.
while the 5% kinetic missile bonus is less powerful than the 10% bonus to ANY drone it still gives you versatility in choosing weapon sizes
seriously, try fitting assault launchers to your cerb and bbq some assault frigs/interceptors with it from long range.
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Yes I know how my face looks like :D |
Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N.
The Firm.
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Posted - 2008.12.11 13:33:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Randgris
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Randgris
the bonus is balanced because it applies to ALL missiles
so you get a bonus to frig sized weapons, cruiser sized weapons and bs sized weapons
Unlike say the Dominix or Ishtar which only get bonuses to medium and large drones respectively, you mean?
i never mentioned drones. yes they too have bonuses to undersized/oversized drones, what's your point? bandwidth limits it anyway.
while the 5% kinetic missile bonus is less powerful than the 10% bonus to ANY drone it still gives you versatility in choosing weapon sizes
seriously, try fitting assault launchers to your cerb and bbq some assault frigs/interceptors with it from long range.
As long as they're not Gallante or Amarr...
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BiggestT
Caldari
Resurrection
Skunk-Works
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Posted - 2008.12.11 13:37:00 -
[82]
Originally by: vostok
Originally by: BiggestT
This.
Id be happy with Theron's suggestion if the non-kinetic missiles were also made faster/better explo velocity etc.
Sorry, CCP though the average caldari pilot was to dumb to understand T1 missiles going different ranges.
Hell there's still enough who don't know how to work out how far their missiles go even after they dock before trying to show info.
Anyway, if your ships get damage bonuses to other damage types, I want bonuses to medium and small guns on my battleship and specifically, on my thorax!
You see your noob thoughts are all well and good but it doesn't seem like any of you have thought this through at all.
This thread is a prime example of why missiles are so dumbed down imo.
Yeah, i was trying to spot a decent argument there, or even a good troll, but all i saw was that incompetent post.
EVE history
t2 precisions |
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