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Time to get back to Launcher Bonus on Caldari ships?

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Shemaul	Posted - 2008.12.09 11:51:00 - [1] After all the "balancing" done on missiles, i guess if it's the right time to put back the old "5% bonus on launcher damage" instead of the weird "5%bonus on kinetic missile damage". What do u think about it? It's still missiles too overpowered to make this change? Do actual situation a bad thing to market (heavy missiles sold are only kinetic version 95% of the times)? Do actual situation too "strange" for EVE rules (no other weapons gain damage on ammos instead of weapon, but caldari) even in PvP battles (if u wanna do damage, i know it's kinetic, if u wanna be unpredictable, u loose ship bonus)? Devs should find a formula to make it balanced, but please, kinetic bonus it really a shame...
Sheriff Jones Amarr Clinical Experiment	Posted - 2008.12.09 11:55:00 - [2] It's kind of nice to have "specialized damage" ships, but either spread this to other ships(respectively boosting it), or bring back multi-damage bonus. I don't see any real harm. My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
Karille Gallente Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams	Posted - 2008.12.09 12:03:00 - [3] Other races are mostly predictable in their damage types or do a fixed combination of damages. It seems like they wanted to share this with the Caldari.
madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces	Posted - 2008.12.09 12:10:00 - [4] Edited by: madaluap on 09/12/2008 12:10:16 I disagree, look @ it from this way: When facing a domi most of the time you face thermal damage. This because ogre and garde deal the largest ammount of damage. When chosing other drones you do less damage, but gain more range/speed balanced by worse tracking. On the other hand, its not like gallente only gets a damagebonus to thermal drones. I think the situation is fine as it is atm. _________________________________________________
Seibicoe	Posted - 2008.12.09 12:11:00 - [5] Originally by: madaluap Edited by: madaluap on 09/12/2008 12:10:16 I disagree, look @ it from this way: When facing a domi most of the time you face thermal damage. This because ogre and garde deal the largest ammount of damage. When chosing other drones you do less damage, but gain more range/speed balanced by worse tracking. On the other hand, its not like gallente only gets a damagebonus to thermal drones. I think the situation is fine as it is atm. Good so the sac should have its bonuses changed to 5% HAM EM damage instead of 5% to HAM damage?
madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces	Posted - 2008.12.09 12:14:00 - [6] Originally by: Seibicoe Originally by: madaluap Edited by: madaluap on 09/12/2008 12:10:16 I disagree, look @ it from this way: When facing a domi most of the time you face thermal damage. This because ogre and garde deal the largest ammount of damage. When chosing other drones you do less damage, but gain more range/speed balanced by worse tracking. On the other hand, its not like gallente only gets a damagebonus to thermal drones. I think the situation is fine as it is atm. Good so the sac should have its bonuses changed to 5% HAM EM damage instead of 5% to HAM damage? Originally by: Title of topic [Time to get back to Launcher Bonus on Caldari ships? No offtopic whinage plz, start your own thread. _________________________________________________
Sheriff Jones Amarr Clinical Experiment	Posted - 2008.12.09 12:15:00 - [7] Originally by: madaluap Edited by: madaluap on 09/12/2008 12:10:16 I disagree, look @ it from this way: When facing a domi most of the time you face thermal damage. This because ogre and garde deal the largest ammount of damage. When chosing other drones you do less damage, but gain more range/speed balanced by worse tracking. On the other hand, its not like gallente only gets a damagebonus to thermal drones. I think the situation is fine as it is atm. Then how would you feel about a module that would cause your drones to unlock or be unable to perform? My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
Deviana Sevidon Gallente Panta-Rhei United Front Alliance	Posted - 2008.12.09 12:15:00 - [8] No, Caldari Ships like the Cerberus have a Bonus to HAM and HML but only for kinetic damage type. The Khanid Mk2 Ships have their Bonus for all damage types but only for the short ranged missiles.
NoNah	Posted - 2008.12.09 12:16:00 - [9] Originally by: madaluap Edited by: madaluap on 09/12/2008 12:10:16 I disagree, look @ it from this way: When facing a domi most of the time you face thermal damage. This because ogre and garde deal the largest ammount of damage. When chosing other drones you do less damage, but gain more range/speed balanced by worse tracking. On the other hand, its not like gallente only gets a damagebonus to thermal drones. I think the situation is fine as it is atm. This is why I love the Helios. Parrots, commence! Postcount: 830984
Seibicoe	Posted - 2008.12.09 12:18:00 - [10] Originally by: madaluap Originally by: Seibicoe Originally by: madaluap Edited by: madaluap on 09/12/2008 12:10:16 I disagree, look @ it from this way: When facing a domi most of the time you face thermal damage. This because ogre and garde deal the largest ammount of damage. When chosing other drones you do less damage, but gain more range/speed balanced by worse tracking. On the other hand, its not like gallente only gets a damagebonus to thermal drones. I think the situation is fine as it is atm. Good so the sac should have its bonuses changed to 5% HAM EM damage instead of 5% to HAM damage? Originally by: Title of topic [Time to get back to Launcher Bonus on Caldari ships? No offtopic whinage plz, start your own thread. Its not off topic its totally relevant that some bonused missile ships do not get stuck with a particular damage type.
madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces	Posted - 2008.12.09 12:19:00 - [11] Edited by: madaluap on 09/12/2008 12:19:33 Originally by: Sheriff Jones Originally by: madaluap Edited by: madaluap on 09/12/2008 12:10:16 I disagree, look @ it from this way: When facing a domi most of the time you face thermal damage. This because ogre and garde deal the largest ammount of damage. When chosing other drones you do less damage, but gain more range/speed balanced by worse tracking. On the other hand, its not like gallente only gets a damagebonus to thermal drones. I think the situation is fine as it is atm. Then how would you feel about a module that would cause your drones to unlock or be unable to perform? Yeh like smartbombs, other drones, missiles, small guns (or medium if you move away from me) or even large when enemy hangs still and im using sentry...You mean that? f.o.f? _________________________________________________
Sheriff Jones Amarr Clinical Experiment	Posted - 2008.12.09 12:25:00 - [12] Originally by: madaluap Yeh like smartbombs, other drones, missiles, small guns (or medium if you move away from me) or even large when enemy hangs still and im using sentry...You mean that? f.o.f? Still no module that can be "lock/actiate"'d to remove your drones from play. Don't compare drones and missiles, or drones and turrets, 'cause they are essentially different. My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
Naomi Knight Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.12.09 12:25:00 - [13] Hmm maybe change projectile dmg bonunses to dmg bonus for nuclear and fusion ammos. And change energy turret dmg bonus to em dmg bonus. That would be inline with missile ships.
Colonel Xaven Decadence. RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.12.09 12:36:00 - [14] Why don't you guys just adapt your fittings / tactics to the game? Instead I hear the word "change" or "nerf" way too often. Do you know why missiles are rarely used in PvP? It's not a damage tpye / bonus issue. Btw: Caldari are the only race who can select the damage type. Advantage enough? Proud member of RZR - Decadence.
Emperor Salazar Caldari Insidious Existence RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.12.09 12:36:00 - [15] Despite downsides to turrets (tracking, optimals), missiles will always be less efficient for pvp (particularly after Quantum Rise; not a whine, this was a necessary change to boost small ship utilization and gang cooperation). However, bottom line is that missiles are still weaker than turrets for pvp (that flight time really hurts in all forms of pvp, let it be solo, small gang or large fleet). An all-around R.o.F bonus instead of kinetic damage would be nice and much appreciated by all Caldari ship pilots. I never understood why CCP picked kinetic...
TimMc Gallente Brutal Deliverance OWN Alliance	Posted - 2008.12.09 12:38:00 - [16] Originally by: Deviana Sevidon No, Caldari Ships like the Cerberus have a Bonus to HAM and HML but only for kinetic damage type. The Khanid Mk2 Ships have their Bonus for all damage types but only for the short ranged missiles. This.
Shemaul	Posted - 2008.12.09 13:00:00 - [17] Originally by: Colonel Xaven Why don't you guys just adapt your fittings / tactics to the game? Instead I hear the word "change" or "nerf" way too often. Do you know why missiles are rarely used in PvP? It's not a damage tpye / bonus issue. Btw: Caldari are the only race who can select the damage type. Advantage enough? Without explaining your points this replay is 100% useless. 1) I don't see any relation between ship bonus and fitting since we are talking about the difference between weapon bonus or ammo bonus. 2) Tell why missiles are rarely used in your opinion (i use them without any kind of problem since my rule in pvp it's not the damage dealer one -except for kessie-). 3) Explain "advantage" in doing only one kind of damage (and i say it again 3 of the 4 damages are less effective due to ammo bonus for most of caldari ship). I really can't see how the choice of CCP to give bonus only to one ammo type can balance the weapons in EVE. I can't see how could this be useful in balancing the game at all. P.S. Drone comparison are nonsense in the terms showed above.
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.12.09 13:39:00 - [18] Originally by: Colonel Xaven Why don't you guys just adapt your fittings / tactics to the game? Instead I hear the word "change" or "nerf" way too often. Do you know why missiles are rarely used in PvP? It's not a damage tpye / bonus issue. Btw: Caldari are the only race who can select the damage type. Advantage enough? Minmatar ships also select their damage types, though not in a pure fashion since they tend to generate 2 - 3 damage types depending upon the ammunition they choose. Gallente ships often get a great deal of their DPS from Drones, and drones more or less operate as an analog to missiles. But like Caldari there is a favored damage type there as well - thermal. Amarr have a few ships in the linup that have true rainbow damage (Sacriledge, Vengeance) but for the most part they are stuck with dealing EM/Thermal damage, and even that operates on a sliding scale of how much is em and how much is thermal. Every race has some capacity to select damage types, but they tend to favor certain damage types over others. Only TWO missile ships in the Caldari lineup have the capacity to truly select any damage type without sacrificing effeciency of the missile itself - the Raven and the Widow. Almost any Amarr ship will be generating some combination of em/thermal damage. Gallente ships favor thermal and kinetic damage. Minmitar ships often generate a large amount of explosive damage.
Toshiro Khan Gallente	Posted - 2008.12.09 13:55:00 - [19] Originally by: Sheriff Jones Still no module that can be "lock/actiate"'d to remove your drones from play. Don't compare drones and missiles, or drones and turrets, 'cause they are essentially different. There are a number of modules that can be used to remove drones from play.. Hmmm let me see turrets and missles tend to do the job rather nicely as do smart bombs and drones. As to break lock of a drone... ECM burst's do the trick too.. Shame that a jammed missle ship can still fight with its F.O.Fs and that missles are not affected by tracking disrupters (well niether are drones.. So maybe a bad example, but a drone ship thats jammed before it can drop its drones doesn't put out any dps even when its drones are set to aggessive.) So your right in as much as drones, turrets and missles shouldn't be compaired.. but wrong in saying that there isn't a mod that removes drones from play.
Janu Hull Caldari Terra Incognita Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2008.12.09 14:19:00 - [20] Originally by: Colonel Xaven Btw: Caldari are the only race who can select the damage type. Advantage enough? Minmatar gunners have a fair selection to use, too, ya know? In the event of an emergency, my ego may be used as a floatation device.
Naomi Knight Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.12.09 14:32:00 - [21] Edited by: Naomi Knight on 09/12/2008 14:32:12 Gallente and amarr gunships can select their dmg too , nobody forces them to fit only hybrid or energy guns on them , so you can fit projectile or hybrid guns instead of energy guns on your zealot.You loose your ships bonuse,who cares i lose my ship bonust too if i dont fire kinetic missiles. Oh and choosing dmg type in pvp does not work well.
Tar om Minmatar Octavian Vanguard RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.12.09 15:03:00 - [22] Originally by: Naomi Knight Hmm maybe change projectile dmg bonunses to dmg bonus for nuclear and fusion ammos. And change energy turret dmg bonus to em dmg bonus. That would be inline with missile ships. Thats just nerfing noobs, which is pretty unfair. T2 ammo only does two damage types, and is predictable. -- DEVS get multiple CPUs/Cores per system and all will be forgiven. Parallel Python
Tar om Minmatar Octavian Vanguard RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.12.09 15:04:00 - [23] FoF are for mission runners - they are essentially worthless in PvP. -- DEVS get multiple CPUs/Cores per system and all will be forgiven. Parallel Python
MyOwnSling Gallente Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.12.09 15:08:00 - [24] Originally by: Naomi Knight Edited by: Naomi Knight on 09/12/2008 14:32:12 Gallente and amarr gunships can select their dmg too , nobody forces them to fit only hybrid or energy guns on them , so you can fit projectile or hybrid guns instead of energy guns on your zealot.You loose your ships bonuse,who cares i lose my ship bonust too if i dont fire kinetic missiles. Except you can change ammo after undocking/leaving pos/leaving carrier whereas that is not the case for turrets, so the comparison is not quite valid. ------------- Stop whining. Originally by: Puupuu dude... your face... Originally by: MooKids I have an elite rating in HULL TANKING! That is like saying I can block punches with my face.
vostok Minmatar Shadow of xXDEATHXx	Posted - 2008.12.09 15:21:00 - [25] Originally by: Sheriff Jones Originally by: madaluap Yeh like smartbombs, other drones, missiles, small guns (or medium if you move away from me) or even large when enemy hangs still and im using sentry...You mean that? f.o.f? Still no module that can be "lock/actiate"'d to remove your drones from play. Don't compare drones and missiles, or drones and turrets, 'cause they are essentially different. Your argument is terrible, they are different but they also must be essentially balanced or the game falls apart. The thing that removes drones from play is damage, there's nothing unfair about that, on the other hand considering defenders don't do anything at all I would argue that there's no module that can take missiles out of play. (also, tracking disruptors) - Adaptation is not* an excuse for lack of ballance!* -
vostok Minmatar Shadow of xXDEATHXx	Posted - 2008.12.09 15:24:00 - [26] Originally by: Naomi Knight Edited by: Naomi Knight on 09/12/2008 14:32:12 Gallente and amarr gunships can select their dmg too , nobody forces them to fit only hybrid or energy guns on them , so you can fit projectile or hybrid guns instead of energy guns on your zealot.You loose your ships bonuse,who cares i lose my ship bonust too if i dont fire kinetic missiles. Oh and choosing dmg type in pvp does not work well. That's possibly the worst thing I have ever read. This thread is seriously weak, are you people actually arguing this? - Adaptation is not* an excuse for lack of ballance!* -
Shemaul	Posted - 2008.12.09 16:09:00 - [27] Originally by: vostok I would argue that there's no module that can take missiles out of play. (also, tracking disruptors) If u can't target, u cannot fire, so ECM can do the job. Probably i cannot understand what u mean, because there is no module that can neutralize a gun ammo once it fired. As u saw tousands times for sure, there is a way to avoid fired missiles (if they are fired from distance): warp away, while guns do instadamage... ANYWAY: this 3d was made to ask people if bringning launcher damage instead of kinetic damage could be done or not. It's not another useless comparison between guns and missiles...
vostok Minmatar Shadow of xXDEATHXx	Posted - 2008.12.09 16:17:00 - [28] Originally by: Shemaul Originally by: vostok I would argue that there's no module that can take missiles out of play. (also, tracking disruptors) If u can't target, u cannot fire, so ECM can do the job. Probably i cannot understand what u mean, because there is no module that can neutralize a gun ammo once it fired. As u saw tousands times for sure, there is a way to avoid fired missiles (if they are fired from distance): warp away, while guns do instadamage... ANYWAY: this 3d was made to ask people if bringning launcher damage instead of kinetic damage could be done or not. It's not another useless comparison between guns and missiles... ECM works on drones too if you hit the ship before it gets drones out not to mention the said ship then cannot pick what the drones attack. Heres an example of this: Me in domi with drones out, gets hit by a falcon and my drones engage... My drones get to the falcon and then with no command from me return to me. This actually happened to me! All that said, I think missiles are fine, picking damage type is a powerful tool, The best example of seeing it in action is when you meet T2 ships and while you don't know their weak points, you know their strong points and you know you would be a fool to engage a gallente T2 ship with kinetic damage, on the other hand, what choice does a gallente pilot have when engaging a caldari T2 ship? Thermal or thermal. Same for amarr engaging minmatar, lasers do nothing when your target has 90% base resists to EM! - Adaptation is not* an excuse for lack of ballance!* -
Diomidis Amarr Mythos Corp RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.12.09 16:17:00 - [29] You are not seriously believing what you are writing, right? Dmg type selection is not an advantage? Then why do you bring the Sacrilege and Khanid mkII in your comparisons? Aren't those the only 3 Amarrian ships (the curse doesn't count - it gets no missile related bonuses) that actually get to choose their dmg type? And that goes for HAM and Rockers ONLY, unlike the Raven/Golem that get all-around dmg/all around range freedom. Yeah, what if the Drake or the Cerb only get bonuses for kinetic missiles? Aren't those good enough and unique already? - would you like loosing the HML + velocity bonuses? Off course not! You would like to have the current range and dps + no penalty for choosing any dmg type available... You wouldn't mind loosing sth, perhaps the HAM bonuses, but then you would whine that the close range Sac or the close range Zealot out-damages your 200km Cerb! You could also bring to surface a forgotten Deimos all-out blaster-gank fit to prove how gimped your 200km setup is... After sorting out the dmg/range you would bring up the Sacrilege again, and ask for more cap and more tank and whatever for the Cerb...if you like the sac that much, dedicate a month and get it... Don't ASK/DEMAND changes and sacrifices YOU would never accept yourself. FFS, what a pathetic bunch of whiners! Join the Biggest Greek Corp! www.Mythos-eve.com - Join Mythos Channel in game!
Zero Threat Prox XII	Posted - 2008.12.09 17:17:00 - [30] Also you have to remember, There is 2 types of cross damage Drones now so gallente can dish all 4 types of damage em/exp drones + thermic kin with hybrids blasters/rails

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