EVE Search - Scamming destroys the market in Eve

All Channels

Market Discussions

Scamming destroys the market in Eve

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 :: one page
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
testalus rima	Posted - 2008.12.10 13:31:00 - [61] this thread is not about removing scamming from game or a "hello kitty" version ITS ABOUT BEEING ABLE TO PUNISH SCAMMER INGAME!!! a priate is poding you - you get a kill right - fair a corp is bugging you - you wardec them - fair you'r making easy isk as pirate - you get tagged by concord - fair you are a scammer - ??? nothing!!! - fair? all ingame tool are not working coz they are just alts CONTRACT SECTION AROUND JITA TURNED TO BE USELESS!!! a questions: the market engine is one of the things ccp is proud of. why cant we trade faction item within the market then? hangars for frighters asset and map
Block Ukx Block Ships and Ammunitions	Posted - 2008.12.10 13:55:00 - [62] Without a doubt, scamming hurts the economy in particular the secondary market. I donÆt think ccp will ever put any effort in creating an in-game stock exchange unless they alter their scamming policy. Shifting the blame of wrong doing and deceive to the victim is how criminals justify their malicious actions. BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk
Elder Langley Langley Trading and Holdings	Posted - 2008.12.10 14:06:00 - [63] Originally by: testalus rima a questions: the market engine is one of the things ccp is proud of. why cant we trade faction item within the market then? I would like this greatly.
G'kek	Posted - 2008.12.10 14:14:00 - [64] Question to some of the economic guru's in this forum (If they haven't all ran away since this forum was moved to Hi-Sec). What percentage of the economy in Eve is 'scam' based or dubius and which percentage would be considered 'legit'?
flakeys Tier 3 Technologies Inc Lazy is our middle name	Posted - 2008.12.10 14:28:00 - [65] Edited by: flakeys on 10/12/2008 14:34:22 I had one scam of 1 billion against me a few months back. This said i do not wish CCP to do anything about it.It's part of the game and i love it for what it is.Just as high-sec ganking/suiciding etc.This is what makes eve the best game out there and most realistic.If you even need someone to hold your hand in a game then it's gotten pretty far in my book.Learn from it or get bitten a lot. I myself have never scammed nor do i think i ever will , but i understand that people do it and i don't want it to be any other way than this tbh. I do however agree that there should be a possibility to put any ingame item on the market and this should lower the number of scams i think because at this point contracts are more filled with scams then clean business if you check jita for example.So even if you check the contracts it's a load of work to find honest contracts for certain items wich is annoying as hell. In addition i would not define selling a shuttle for 10 million isk as a scam if you really are selling that item , but a verry nice profit margin .I'm talking about IPO scams and the navy ravens that are just ravens for example.
Raaz Satik	Posted - 2008.12.10 14:31:00 - [66] Originally by: G'kek Question to some of the economic guru's in this forum (If they haven't all ran away since this forum was moved to Hi-Sec). What percentage of the economy in Eve is 'scam' based or dubius and which percentage would be considered 'legit'? 42
Dennmoth Ferdier Scoopex	Posted - 2008.12.10 15:08:00 - [67] My way of playing eve, and avoiding scams is that I expect everyone everywhere at every chance to scam me out of my money and/or assets. Having read a few of those "betrayed my best friend in an online space flying game for 250 billion"-threads, I never give access to money or assets (in a way that they can be taken) and I never invest/trust/loan a sum of money to anyone or in anything if I think this sum is enough to care about. That, and I learned to read and count very early in the game. And so, I've never been scammed in a way I wouldn't have epxected it. Eve works so that you have to trust people if you don't want to wait for ages to be able to build and manage everything you want yourself, the key is to be prepared. ------ Heart for isk, Balls for risk.
EgoMan	Posted - 2008.12.10 15:16:00 - [68] If I try to sell you Ice in alaska and you buy it thats your fault and there is no law thats gonna get your money back for you. Its your responsability to read the fine print.
Tasko Pal Heron Corporation	Posted - 2008.12.10 15:59:00 - [69] Edited by: Tasko Pal on 10/12/2008 15:59:19 Originally by: Bad Bobby The closest I've got to being scammed was investing in Cosmoray's IPO which didn't manage to deliver the advertised returns, although I got my isk out straight away and since then the returns have improved somewhat. I put the money I took out of that into Ugly Toys Holdings which has given me almost twice the return I was expecting from Cosmoray though, so even that one turned out to be a nice win. Just to clarify the first sentence. After sorting out the relevant drama, Cosmoray delivered a poor 2% for the first month of the Cosmoray Construction IPO (and took a management fee which may have been part of the problem), and Bad Bobby becomes unhappy investor. End result, Cosmoray buys out Bad Bobby.
Ibayd Te'Jori Perkone	Posted - 2008.12.10 15:59:00 - [70] Just introduce auditing agents, much like locator agents. Make it possible to somehow use lps/isk to search for money transfers/private contracts from specific characters. It would have to be adequately expensive to prevent rampant use, specific enough to locate who is receiving isk all while being vague enough to not give anyone who wanted it a complete 1040. example: Jitaalt325 just sold you a raven instead of that CNR you thought you were getting for 300mil. That character is 3 months old and still in a newbie corp. He never undocks. You're mad and want revenge so go to your friendly auditor agent and give him 25mil to start an audit. You let the auditor know you're only looking for transactions above 250mil (isk or item basevalue). An hour/day/week later you get an evemail with the results. If there are lots of money transfers you'd be told as much and given maybe one or two names. The less instances of transactions breaking the thresh hold, the more accurate the audited name. This randomness combined with the expense would keep it's uses minimal while allowing some degree of discovery of isk trails. Isk Wallet's are computers right? Hackers...... This would also help track down corp thieves as you could see where all that crap gets unloaded. (the above system is uber flawed. Dont dismiss the idea because of suggested mechanics)
Tasko Pal Heron Corporation	Posted - 2008.12.10 16:06:00 - [71] Such auditing methods have quite lethal consequences. Corps could specialize in discovering manufacture chains associated with well known big money players. The big 0.0 alliances risk having their high sec isk generators compromised. Could be interesting. Could be a disaster.
Qevan	Posted - 2008.12.10 16:10:00 - [72] The problem with scamming isn't the scammers. The problem with scamming are the people who get scammed. Markets exist because there is an opportunity for profit. That's why people scam in online games, why the Jita contract market is flooded with "AMARR NAVY HARDENAR!!!!" contracts that'll get you an EANM, and why you can't even look at local Jita chat without your eyes bleeding. It's because of the people who are too clueless, careless, or just plain lazy to do their homework, activate "common" sense, and make sure that the deal is what they're expecting. Don't hate and ridicule the scammers. Hate and ridicule those who get scammed. Use Local chat to call out individuals who just accepted that contract for "10000 Wrath Missiles" and ended up with a single missiles. Don't tell your corpmate who just bought a shuttle for 100,000,000 ISK that "it happens to everyone." Tell him he's stupid. If we cut down on the number of people who are dumb enough to fall for scams, we'll cut down on the number of scammers. The law of the market is "let the buyer beware." Scammers just exist to keep that true.
testalus rima	Posted - 2008.12.10 16:15:00 - [73] Originally by: EgoMan If I try to sell you Ice in alaska and you buy it thats your fault and there is no law thats gonna get your money back for you. Its your responsability to read the fine print. no problem with that!!! but if you told me "ice" and i ll get "fire" its a crime! there are alot of "high price" trades within the market system...at certain stations ore price is funny high coz of trade missions for mission runners...shuttles are f***ing expensive in some regions BUT it all within the market system. scamming is the new macro mining!!! and even easyer then this...one billion in a day....without any risk...sadly hangars for frighters asset and map
Jai Centarium Anqara Expeditions The OSS	Posted - 2008.12.10 16:19:00 - [74] Originally by: Ibayd Te'Jori Jitaalt325 just sold you a raven instead of that CNR you thought you were getting for 300mil. That character is 3 months old and still in a newbie corp. He never undocks. You're mad and want revenge so go to your friendly auditor agent and give him 25mil to start an audit. Auditor sends you a message saying, "You should have read the contract. Also, Jitaalt325 did not make these transactions as or on behalf of a publicly held company, and therefore, not subject to public audit of their transactions." Unless Jitaalt325 used an exploit or a hack on you (which, if you got scammed, I'm sure he did)... he put up a contract that, in the contracts interface, would have said "You will recieve: 1x Raven" Or he put an object in the trade window that would have said "Raven" when you clicked "Show Info." Either way, you had plenty of opportunity to realize that it wasn't a CNR, and went ahead with the transaction. I want my disembodied head avatar back. Jai's Guide to Research
Ibayd Te'Jori Perkone	Posted - 2008.12.10 16:31:00 - [75] Dont get caught up on the specifics. Forget raven and Jitaalt. It was an example. This is simply an idea to make isk trails possible to find. And yes, it would make it possible to sniff out production chains, see who is dealing with who etc, but if the price is high enough (and hopefully involves lps and not just isk) and the delay long enough, it would take a real concerted effort by a number of people to get any kind of picture of a "busier" isk trail. If you've just got one guy with one agent trying to track down where his isk went, he might spend 100's of millions for naught (unless the scammer was sloppy and did one big isk transfer to his main?), but if you've got a team of 20 players and auditor agents running whole series of audits against a known jita scammer, they should have some degree of success in trying to track where that isk went given the time. Or is market PVP only good if your transactions are 100% secure? Starting to sound like a double standard.... I see this as a new front for war. Forget metagaming, bring the accountants.
testalus rima	Posted - 2008.12.10 16:33:00 - [76] Originally by: Qevan The problem with scamming isn't the scammers. The problem with scamming are the people who get scammed. Markets exist because there is an opportunity for profit. That's why people scam in online games, why the Jita contract market is flooded with "AMARR NAVY HARDENAR!!!!" contracts that'll get you an EANM, and why you can't even look at local Jita chat without your eyes bleeding. It's because of the people who are too clueless, careless, or just plain lazy to do their homework, activate "common" sense, and make sure that the deal is what they're expecting. Don't hate and ridicule the scammers. Hate and ridicule those who get scammed. Use Local chat to call out individuals who just accepted that contract for "10000 Wrath Missiles" and ended up with a single missiles. Don't tell your corpmate who just bought a shuttle for 100,000,000 ISK that "it happens to everyone." Tell him he's stupid. If we cut down on the number of people who are dumb enough to fall for scams, we'll cut down on the number of scammers. The law of the market is "let the buyer beware." Scammers just exist to keep that true. as said before -> blaming the victim is not the right way... maybe you should blame yourself if someone steel you car :D hangars for frighters asset and map
Karl Luckner	Posted - 2008.12.10 22:17:00 - [77] I think scamming belongs to Jita just like the Eiffel tower to Paris. I'm always reminded of this lil guy :
Illpwnyoulikeanoob Minmatar Warped Mining	Posted - 2008.12.10 22:46:00 - [78] Just last week I put up a sell order for a hoarder of 9,250,000 isks. And guess what someone bought it. Should I be punshied for someone not counting zeros? And yes. I win EvE by default.
Titan Pilot Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.12.11 01:09:00 - [79] Originally by: Illpwnyoulikeanoob Just last week I put up a sell order for a hoarder of 9,250,000 isks. And guess what someone bought it. Should I be punshied for someone not counting zeros? And yes. I win EvE by default. wow, you made 9mil isk, stop the presses, this man wins EVE. What will you do with this wealth? Do tell...
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.12.11 01:14:00 - [80] Originally by: Han Omega Lets face it close to everyone who played Eve lost bc of scamming the one or other isk Let's face it, only overly hasty or greedy people or downright idiots lose money to scams in EVE when no exploits are involved... and exploits are usually NOT involved. It's gotten increasingly difficult for scammers to scam people because there were continuous improvements made to the visibility of contract details, up to the point when now literally only greedy idiots in a haste fall for it. If what you say is that most people you know are hasty greedy idiots... well... no comment. _ Create a character \|\| Fit a ship \|\| Get some ISK
Simo98 International House of PWNCakes B.L.A.C.K.	Posted - 2008.12.11 04:17:00 - [81] Edited by: Simo98 on 11/12/2008 04:17:11 Originally by: Lexander Morinex A good scammer works at his art and tries to find the one weakness that can be exploited. It is a deliberate act of harm, and few people can defend against everything. If he works hard a devising a good scam, and studying his victim, i would argue that it as just as much a valid profession as ratting, mining or trading. when you take an item in demand and sell it at above average prices, could this not be considered a scam? are you not taking hard earned isk from the missioners simply becasue they dont realise that the price is higher than average? should they then beable to hunt you down and kill you? the pirate who baits people into engaging, then has his friends jump into the fight, is he scamming? the attacker thought he was solo in a belt, turns out he wasn't. how is this different to when i think im getting a cheap navy raven and end up with a normal raven? now i do not condone scamming and would never do it myself, however there are ways to avoid scamming, just as there are ways to avoid buying modules at inflated prices, or getting blown up with pirates.
Han Omega	Posted - 2008.12.11 09:09:00 - [82] Edited by: Han Omega on 11/12/2008 09:10:53 Quote: now i do not condone scamming and would never do it myself, however there are ways to avoid scamming, just as there are ways to avoid buying modules at inflated prices, or getting blown up with pirates. It is indeed always possible to avoid everything, the thing is - if i get blown away in a blob of pirates in 0.0 - what is possible if you do not use 2 scouts on other comps and land with your cloak ship in a bubble and some interceptor pilot is better than you or has some luck - than you will get blown out of your ship. This simply happens, but now I can do something against those people who just blown me out - I could come back with some friends, I could pay some Merc's or I set some bounty on their head. Now tell me it was stupid to drive with a cloak ship without a scout, than I need to tell you that it is also stupid that the scout always get a ship for free, costs close to zero with the clone - it is a system using, but roleplaying wise not good. I would even call this scout system as an abuse of the system. No costs, no loss. Anyways I can not do anything against spammer and have just work with them. And the fact is they do sell many contracts, look at them and what they sold already as scam. So this is a problem, no matter that I never bought a scam, or some "clever" people here neither did. This is not the matter and I am not calling anyone stupid at all - never did. So please think next time what you are writing and what conclusions you do. I want that there will be a drawback for those scammers in some way, so that they do not become more and more. It will regulate itself than. EDIT: And a change to the contract system. Additionally the possibility the sell all items in the simple market - for what else we have this market. This would exclude rigged ships, but the contract system would be still in charge for such issues & multiple sells.
Demtalin le'Mercennaire The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.12.11 12:41:00 - [83] Edited by: Demtalin le''Mercennaire on 11/12/2008 12:45:36 Originally by: SentryRaven It's always been the player's and pilot's duty to check what contracts he is accepting and verify it's legit... Especially when the title set by the player is little tiny partially grayed out text in the main body of the contract description, and the actual item name is big bold text set apart from the mess of the description text in the main body of the contract. It's almost impossible to miss. [EDIT] Hmm, the theme of the thread has changed a lot since the first page, never mind my comment then, it's now old news :P -------- Billy Jean is not my lover
Brock Nelson Caldari Flux Technologies Inc	Posted - 2008.12.11 13:59:00 - [84] Didn't read any of the wall of text here but here's my thought Those who are against contract scams are usually victims at one point... 10% for Returning Customers
Block Ukx Block Ships and Ammunitions	Posted - 2008.12.11 14:53:00 - [85] Originally by: Brock Nelson Didn't read any of the wall of text here but here's my thought Those who are against contract scams are usually victims at one point... And those in favor of contract scams are scammers? BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk
Brevada Sad Panda Inc. Unaffiliated	Posted - 2008.12.11 18:52:00 - [86] Originally by: Jacque Custeau As for "lol this can happen in RL". Scamming in RL carries huge risks and real conseqeuences. A scammer in EvE can take his winnings, buy a new char and no one would be the wiser. This post is stupid IMO. A fool with money is soon parted with it after all. Besides, if he quit after losing the isk for a scorpion, he probably would have done the same after it got blown up as well, if he had actually gotten it, thats a sad excuse for quitting IMO Scamming is a real and indepth part of the game, no offense, but he doesn't sound like the brightest bulb out there. Chances are even if he did get the scorpion he would have flown through rancer and gotten popped by pirates and emoragequit anyways. The game shouldn't be dumbed down to where it is unfun. If you don't wanna get scammed don't be so trusting in a game who's appeal is a hard-cold atmosphere where you can die or lose your stuff at anytime.
Ironnight Caldari x13 X13 Alliance	Posted - 2008.12.11 19:40:00 - [87] If something sounds to good to be true then it properly is, but no you got greedy and stupid and got scammed, stop your crying you only have yourself to blame. They're like 'oh **** son, its a trap ' Doomsday
cosmoray Cosmoray Construction	Posted - 2008.12.11 20:32:00 - [88] Even if SCAMMING was not allowed businesses could still depart with your cash. How could you tell if a business SCAMMED or failed. I am really sorry I unanchored my towers and someone stole them, or I got popped carrying a freighter BPO,......., etc.....
Frenden Dax Dax Acquisitions	Posted - 2008.12.11 20:41:00 - [89] Originally by: cosmoray How could you tell if a business SCAMMED or failed. In some cases coughNew Moon Industriescough both can happen. :P To my mind there's no difference between a scam and a failed business (i.e. FuryBank). Whether or not the intent was to scam, the result is the same.
Dragonz Fire The Graduates Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.12.11 21:06:00 - [90] Originally by: Frenden Dax Originally by: cosmoray How could you tell if a business SCAMMED or failed. In some cases coughNew Moon Industriescough both can happen. :P To my mind there's no difference between a scam and a failed business (i.e. FuryBank). Whether or not the intent was to scam, the result is the same. there is a HUGE difference. a scam is deceiving. Someone provides MISinformation. A failed business did not have an initial intention to fail. Often times an investor gets his money back from a failed business. I would still invest my money in someone who had a failed business. I would not invest my money in someone who scams. A RL example. Donald Trump made billions of dollars. And then he lost almost ALL of it. People invested in him and he now has billions of dollars again. There are many other people who failed their first couple of times at business and then succeeded to become billionaires. Are they scammers? no.

Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.