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Zaiyo Modi
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Posted - 2008.12.28 10:48:00 -
[31]
I was thinking, that a certain skill requirement could perhaps be in order for such a ship:
Lvl II - Fleet command (x12 mult)
Prereq: - Leadership V - Wing Command V
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Onys Cissalc
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Posted - 2008.12.28 11:22:00 -
[32]
Except that field officers' role is not to provide any aggression to the battlefield, but to stand back, survey it and command the troops under his control.
Modern day Flagships don't sit on the front lines, taking the brunt of the battle. They hang behind and use their various forms of intel (and a multi-role crew and deck crew aiding their commanding officer), to figure out who needs to do what where.
At the moment we have people creating a Fleet, with one or multiple Wings containing one or multiple squads. These are then led, in a command hierarchy, by their commanding officer.
Scout role players in a single squad can determine who has what offensive/defensive capabilities and report this to his commanding officer, or Squad commander. He can then in turn command his troops and/or relay the relevant information in addition to what he has surveyed to his commanding officer, or the wing commander. Beyond this, the Wing commanders coordinate attacks while Fleet commanders monitor the entire fleet and assess where they stand in the battle taking place.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flagship
Again, Titans serve the current purpose of Flagships. Where you have to work with sub-capital roles, you can use a cloaking recon; such as when fighting in empire or low-sec.
When people are fighting on land in the real world, they have small, hard to spot, nimble vehicles that hang very far back from the battle, that they coordinate and command their troops from. These things NEVER enter the battle, and have only anti-personnel defensive capabilities, so as to not sacrifice space for the electronics systems they require onboard.
In any event, we may well see people designing ships using T3 that are extremely hard to kill that can act as in battle, uncloaked platforms of command.
Having a module that provides a -100% to locking time would nullify the use of sensor dampeners completely and would allow for siege mode capitals to instantly lock small targets.
As things stand right now, the ship classes are generally designed to counter the same or larger ship class. Because of this, their locking speeds are somewhat on-par with what they require. The ability for ships to target multiple other ships at once allows for them to lock multiple 'primary' and 'secondary' targets at once, and engage their secondary whilst they do not have their primary locked, and/or are regaining lock on their intended target.
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Ineeda Bejay
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Posted - 2008.12.28 21:22:00 -
[33]
only ships that resemble a flag ship currently is command ships but people want a new design people want a new perpose
making many pilots fly a flag ship renders it pointless a flag ship should be a 1 per corp ship?
if only 1 plaer at any given time can undock in this unique ship should have some good reason to fly it. if a ship has a limit of 1 per corp dont you think it should be a bad mama jama?
i think i really suport a ship in eve that is more obtainable than a super cap but yet limited some how.
if you limit this ship in number you want this ship to be uber.
but an overy powerfull offencive ship would really hurt your enemys but if it has defencive capabilities taking out its fleet renders it useless.
titans as a flag ship bull crep!
first of all who has a titan or mother ship not many i never seen 1 and i have a large alliance affiliation.
i would say if these ship were more prevalent then yes but no your ships flag ships are most often command ships or battlecrusiers if neither then they are the BS of choice these ships can get around freely and provide just enough protection.
cap ships its a win or lose battle but in smaller ships they can flee or tacticly manuver to fight another day. in a cap ship id you dont win your in a pod simple as that where you going to go? and how fast do you think your going to get there?
if you think any sort of cap ship is the role of a flag ship your nothing short of a moron.
puting your best skilled player in a flag ship should make his members uber usefull in combat andalso provide some usefull services like say remote reping but yet at a fair range to limit its chances to be chosen as priority.
should also have a large hit point and good set of resistance to quick death while preforming its duties also making this ship not a wise first priority ship.
such a ship would be very strong so strong in fact you think its broken... but is it broken when all you can field is 1 at any given time per corperation.
placing this ship as manditory highest ranking member of fleet makes sure you do not have 2 diferant friendly corps in same fleet
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Onys Cissalc
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Posted - 2008.12.29 14:42:00 -
[34]
*sigh*
I'm an idiot for feeding the multi-character troll, but so as to not let you corrupt the minds of other players, I'll just say this anyway.
You claim that flagships should be illustrious ships that only select few are able to fly.
Ok, fine, put your 'flagship' pilot in a marauder. It's illustrious. It can enter empire. It has great defenses and good offensive capabilities. It costs a lot. Not everyone can fly one.
Now, any sensible fleet, wing or squad commander is not going to make himself the center of everyone's attention, because if he gets taken out, his fleet, wing or squad falls apart without their chain of command.
A smart fleet, wing or squad commander keeps himself safe - this generally involves being in something like a cloaking recon and not actually taking part in the fight further than giving orders to those under his command.
I will say this again, flagships in modern naval warfare hang at the back of a fight. They are often Carriers, given that these are by design meant to hang at the back of the battle and have the space and electronics systems required for adequate monitoring of the naval battle taking place and battles taking place on land through the use of AWACs and their designated planes' electronics systems linked to it.
This is why Titans, siege dreads, triage moms and carriers are 0.0 'flagships'. Because in these kinds of battles, you have hundreds of people and drones flying everywhere, making staying cloaked extremely difficult, when not impossible.
Your alliance affiliation doesn't have a titan? Too bad, their problem. They are not deserving of having a Titan on the basis that they have not trained for it or cannot afford it. They don't have a mothership? Same story.
They don't have a Dread? Wow...
They don't have a carrier? Are we even talking about what used to be the original idea behind alliances here? Or is it just some corp that has a crapton and a half of inactive accounts or afk miners that decided to form an alliance with a few similar corps so that they can bolster their numbers and make wardecs against them less desirable, while pretending to be an alliance the likes of Triumvirate, Morsus Teehee, BoB or similar?
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Nova Fox
Gallente Novafox Shipyards
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Posted - 2008.12.29 18:19:00 -
[35]
Not sure what your naval experince you really do have, but seriously every flag ships I know of doesnt have any primary weapon systems (bread and butter built ship built around that system) most of them are defense weapons only majority of the flagships hull and space is dedicated to being one hell of a communications platform.
Balquor has a very good design put down though, basically its a mini titan command wise, and has two flavors of the sit back more command link type vs the in the front row type. Weapon systems arent as good as the battleship they are based on and if you slap on command links youll be losing out on dps the tech 1 ship its based on has. The ships also have lesser fitting room available than thier original tech 1s as a drawback for having built in fleet bonuses, full tech 2 resists however makes it nice and one additional tank slot of the respective type.
No seige mode gimmik, no pwntage factor, just force multiplier factor.
Pre Order your Sisters of Eve ship today!!! |
Brayiel
The White Rabbits
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Posted - 2008.12.29 18:56:00 -
[36]
Give it bonuses to scanners as well after all information is key, if you know what your enemy is fitting or firing, you can advise on the best way to counter them
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Fullmetal Jackass
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Posted - 2008.12.29 22:38:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Fullmetal Jackass on 29/12/2008 22:46:11
Originally by: SpawnSupreme no generals and admerals used to use carriers but now they often fly or use stealth ships.
im currently in military and been in military since 1992 and have to say i think i know it faily well enough that i should know a thing or 2.
i specialize in computer repair and integration, testing of new software and defence operations
the latest tech is installed by the engeneers and i link them up and put them online.
if i still sound like a kid to you then your helpless.
point being command ships today are usualy smaller stealth ships that can remotely link any ship in fleet and utilize all ship capabilities for coms can be time consuming and waste time with authentications or there can be differencesof ethics in commander tactics and 1 ship can overide in dire need.
my idea for the future is where the ship has an opposit funtion where the longer he lives the longer he can support his fleet and help thim live longer thus an advantage.
but like today where our command ships will overide a frigate corse to stear in path of a torpedo or shoot lasers at incoming air missiles and much more, this idea makes other ships fight harger and live longer so it can keep the enemy more ocupide for if your shooting at a flag ship it take a while to kill so you best work on the easier kills first.
once all other ships are down then a flag ship has no choice but to die fo he stay to long or oposing force greater than anticipating.
Air force tech doesn't count as military dude. And there are no generals in the navy.
I still doubt you are older then 12. Spelling and grammar suck. And you are clueless about really navy tactics and capabilites. The carrier still serves as the flag ship for a task force. Frigates and destroyers will in fact manuver into the path of and incoming torpedo to save a carrier, but they sure as hell aint remote controlled.
The only "stealth" ships I know of are subs and completely experimental suface ships. AKA as foward scouts not flag ships. What fantasy millitary are you "serving" in?
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LOTHUIOUS
Gallente Abh Empire
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Posted - 2008.12.29 23:02:00 -
[38]
no no no
-in real wars, decorated officers strip off their grades on the battlefield so enemies wouldn't recognize them and snipe them off, and they never ride super tanks while their fellow army man ride regular tanks... -in real wars, generals are guarded by their armies and kings stay behind, watch from far away and command.
-now, in WoW, one guy with a higher level plays super man and goes killing spree among others...
which one you want EvE online to be?
giving some guys super indestructible ships is against everything in EvE.
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Troezar
SniggWaffe
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Posted - 2008.12.29 23:12:00 -
[39]
This thread reads like an OP plus a number of alts all supporting the OP's idea all similarly badly written
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DrDooma
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Posted - 2008.12.30 03:07:00 -
[40]
Personally I would make flagships the same as current t2 command ships but with the following additions:
òGive them extra rig slot so that they would have 3 òMake them immune to ECM òGive them 5% bonuses per command ship level for remote assistance. Eg
If normal remote shield booster would regenerate/repair 300 armour damage it would do 375 instead on Command Ship 5.
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Smelly
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Posted - 2008.12.30 04:44:00 -
[41]
I like the idea of a flag ship.
Make it so each corp can designate 2 players to be their "FlagShip" pilot. Those members get the honors to command a ship designated as a Flag Ship unique to only other pilots with the flagship role.
Not sure on stats.
Could be the next gen of Capital Ship like the orca is. A sub capital ship that has the size yet still can warp through jump gates like everyone else. Maybe a new weapon style that is inbetween capital / large. Subcapital weapons.
With a good tank and some weapon power and gang modules. Corporate hanger for members to store ammo and such.
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Dark Drifter
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Posted - 2008.12.30 09:24:00 -
[42]
note to the reader: sorry about my spelling and grammer
will as you can tell i have taked an intrest in this consept for the introduction of the FLAGSHIP. while reading all these posts "including my owne" it sudenly dawned on me.
one skill
5 modules (for each race)
------------------------------------
the skill: flagship command skills required: leadership 5 (rece)frigit 5 destroyer 5 (race)cruser 5 battlecruser 5 (race)battleship 5 spaceship command 5 Adv spaceship command 5 electronics 5 wing command 5
plus other skills i could'nt think of any other ones needed
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the fitting: (race)flagship command core (hull class) basic bonus: +25% resist's to sheild/armour (race dependent) -25% target lock time and +20% max target rng adds 2 Tank slots (race dependent) + 1 warp strength 10% tracking bonus 50% reduction to smart bomb CPU usage (drone defence)
Basic Drawbacks: consumes all turret/launcher hard points reduces ships speed by 10% adds 10% to ships signature radious removes ability to feild combat drones (can still feild repper/web/stassis/neut drones) 2 x stacking penalty for stacking Tanks(so as to stop people from tankng a ship to above 95%ish) can not be fitted to BC's or command ships
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fore every levle trained in the flagship command skill you would be able to the new hull (not including the battlecruser. Y? because of the command ship) class fitting, Ie > skill at lvl 1 you can use the frigit flagship command core and skill at lvl 5 you could use the carrier flagship command core
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and because of the race factor Ie: amarr/caldari Ect... maby the modules could have bonus modifyers tweeked to suit the style of the race
i set out the drawbacks so that a ship fitted with this would need a support fleet (not able to use offensive weaponry/combat drones) see logic to my madness
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to end having this kind of fitting would enable a command ship to be any vessel in the fleet (as long as you have the skills obviousley)
simple and cost efective "i think"
feed back plese.
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DrDooma
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Posted - 2008.12.30 13:46:00 -
[43]
Dark,
Dark,
I like your idea about being able to choose a haul. Personally I think it should be race related and be no smaller then a BC and no larger then a BS if we are in fact talking about creating a new command ships rather then creating a new role.
I donÆt think we should have any drawbacks or intentionally prevent any ships (other then capitals) from operating on their own. If anything, this ship should pose a threat in its own right as do the current command ships.
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Dhejay Centrix
Caldari The Wailing Doom
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Posted - 2008.12.30 14:01:00 -
[44]
Originally by: DrDooma
I like your idea about being able to choose a haul.
errr, wut?
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Velicitia
N.A.S.A.
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Posted - 2008.12.30 15:26:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Dhejay Centrix
Originally by: DrDooma
I like your idea about being able to choose a haul.
errr, wut?
/me thinks he meant "hull"
I like the idea of killing off the offensive capabilities of the ship -- however I think teh larger ships should be able to fit *some* weaponry, though 1-2 turrets/missile launchers tops. If not that, maybe forcing them to be a size smaller
frig/dessie -- none (or maybe civ?, since "small" is their intended weapon size) cruiser/BC -- small BS -- med
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Emporors Champian
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Posted - 2009.01.03 06:33:00 -
[46]
sub capital siege modual that gives bonus to support funtions is what i really looking foward too
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Farseer Zellrenech
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Posted - 2009.01.05 09:46:00 -
[47]
sub capital siege mod is a wild idea that im sure make a t2 ship a bit more usefull in fleet battles
im thinking the sub cap siege mod should have either your bonuses but im thinking possibly better with, in siege mode or better yet triage mode bonus be.
-100% speed +100% to any gang moduals +50% to shild/armor/energy transfer mods and +500% range +100% cap regeration +50% to shild/armor repair amount
this would make the flagships bonuses look something like this
battleship bonus caldari+amarr get +5% per level to resist or galente get 7.5% to armor rep or minmitar get7.5% to shid rep per level (and) bonus to a race related e-war modual per level
flagship bonus +100% to energy vampire or nutalizer drain amount (and) -5% cap need of vampire or neutalizers per level
role bonus fit 3 gang assist moduals in simotainiusly in ship modification slots but in addition to its 2 rig slots
the ship has 7 highs same med and low slots as its murauder brother
i would suggest that these ships could be missile boats for example: abaddon hull= 5 missile slots and 3 gun slots maelstrom hull= 6 missile 2 guns rokh hull= 6 missile 2 gun hyperion hull= 5 missile 3 gun
the pilots would prefer to fit remote repers over dps usualy but not limited to and can fit dps as above
this is my idea of making the ops idea more visual
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SpawnSupreme
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Posted - 2009.01.06 09:45:00 -
[48]
sure is alot said on this thread
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ScienceOfficer Aracelli
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Posted - 2009.01.07 03:37:00 -
[49]
Quote: Personally I would make flagships the same as current t2 command ships but with the following additions:
ò Give them extra rig slot so that they would have 3 ò Make them immune to ECM ò Give them 5% bonuses per command ship level for remote assistance. Eg
If normal remote shield booster would regenerate/repair 300 armour damage it would do 375 instead on Command Ship 5.
i think there is some sort of shipbalancing tool the devs use to create ships like each charictoristic of eacn ship has a point value and depending on the tech level and what is removed will determin what is gained but i can be wrong. but if you have a to add more stats without taking some away makes it over powered
so the op has the idea to add stats viea sub capital siege mod and making the everyday t2 bs and stats more capable.
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2009.01.07 04:15:00 -
[50]
Originally by: SpawnSupreme sure is alot said on this thread
Most of it by people who know less about game balancing than they do about spelling.
Super powerful ships are great! Right up until the other side has twice as many as you ...
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Emporors Champian
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Posted - 2009.01.08 04:02:00 -
[51]
as per op post you can only have 1 in space at any given time per cor, so only way to double the amount of your enemy is if your enemy has 0 |
Johli
Caldari AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2009.01.08 04:22:00 -
[52]
1. Overpowered, too many limitations. 2. Stop posting your alts. It's extremely obvious. |
Emporors Champian
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Posted - 2009.01.08 04:29:00 -
[53]
overpowered + to many limitations = ballanced |
Johli
Caldari AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2009.01.08 04:32:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Emporors Champian overpowered + to many limitations = ballanced
:psyduck: |
Emporors Champian
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Posted - 2009.01.08 04:36:00 -
[55]
how you get what other players say between those brackets? |
Severice
Crushed Ambitions
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Posted - 2009.01.08 04:38:00 -
[56]
Alliances have "flagships" they are called "titans" there is a reason they have gang bonuses. |
Emporors Champian
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Posted - 2009.01.08 04:48:00 -
[57]
i disagree, titans are not flag ships.
a flag ship is a ship that is one of its kind in a fleet.
if you make titans only capavle to fly 1 per corp then i would agree
go look it up man there is only 1 flag ship per its entire command structure.
titan is like the big dumb oger and the commander is a wise wizzard capable of much more than bash!!!
we have a command ship its normaly equivalent to our air craft carriers, a flag ship would be something much more capable. though it was not long ago flag ships used to be air craft carriers but not no more.
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Johli
Caldari AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2009.01.08 04:58:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Johli on 08/01/2009 04:59:36 EVE is not RL. Flagships, which I have no doubt will come out soon in form, won't be a nber solopwnmobile.
These limitations? They don't work in EVE. How will it be worked into the rp that flagships can't undock without fleet commander? Have you thought that multiple alliances would field multiple fleets with multiple nber flagships, and with EVE's powerblcoks, insta**** fleets? Please answer, and use your main. Please kthxbai
edit: if this is an extremely well organized troll, damn you and the game.
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SpawnSupreme
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Posted - 2009.01.09 12:47:00 -
[59]
first is first eve is as real as the players who play it want it to be.
second i would like to take a shot at answering this. for some of my old corp membersstill hang out still fly together but we all went seprate ways because CEO was to much isk sink and to time consuming.
i pay very well for my friends to post for some of them wont post if i did not pay them lol. but this is how i used to run my corp i would pay my members to do everything. i have sunk billions of isk in making my corp members find some trust and loyalty with me. im sure you have a flame for this method but it works for me. besides what else would i do with my isk im probably more wealthy than 90% of eve players. no joke!
ok to the point here. to begin with the ship design here we all work together to create. as we spen much of our in game time talking about forums and whos turn it is to post so our collective idea does not fade away.
this ship is no kill all ship for it has no bonus to attacks all its bonus is defence. this ships large amount of bonus comes from a siege modual. (have you seen the current siege mods & bonuses)? it is fine that mutiple alliances field these ships for only 1 per corp can be undocked at any given time as 2 flagships could never be linked in any way to same fleet ops other than fly close together.
more specific details have been posted after to clairify its mechanics.
well hope i clarify things up a bit more for you.
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Farseer Zellrenech
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Posted - 2009.01.11 11:42:00 -
[60]
i would call mine star ship enterprise
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