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Shaka Quatuic
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Posted - 2009.01.27 16:17:00 -
[61]
matter of fact I can add 2 bomber losses of mine to that little list of yours. one of them I was experimenting with using one as a salvage boat in curse when a vagabond warped in on me at a gate, the other was out in esoteria when I was solo camping a gate hunting Stain interceptor pilots... killed one, tried for a second but he had a 10 man backup gang right behind him.
you see I am not above admitting my own losses. you sir are taking my losses out of the proper context, and applying them to my ability to perform in my stated challenge. I can take the heat.. can you? |
Marcus Gideon
Gallente
Excessive Force
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Posted - 2009.01.27 17:08:00 -
[62]
Point being... most of these replies have little backing as to why Cloaks should be left totally immune.
Posts simply state "Yeah, well... you must suck at life. L2P Noob" or similar statements.
And while attacking your opponent, rather than the topic at hand, works for political debates... I think it's a wee bit immature.
Cloaks, by themselves, are not "overpowered". Only a select few ships can perform in any regard while cloaked. And while any ship could fit a Cloak, they will be hindered in their performance significantly for doing so.
Spies, by themselves, are a legitimate tactical advantage. They are sent behind enemy lines, to relay information back to higher headquarters.
AFK players, by themselves, are wasting game resources. There is not a single function in the game that requires your character's presence, but not the player's interaction. Almost every other MMO has seen fit to limit how long a player can "exist" without actually playing the game. Eve has not come to this realization yet.
Most, and I say most, of the "Anti-Cloak" ideas that abound are not meant to "nerf cloaks". They are simply meant to provide further challenge and adventure to the game. While some may cry "I want a POS module that negates all cloaks in my system!!1!" they're (hopefully) in the minority.
I personally would like to see a means of "hunting" for cloaks. Not to say that I know precisely where you are at all times. Only that I be given the chance to find you. If you're AFK, then you're screwed. If you're alert, then it'll be an interesting game of Cat and Mouse.
"Fixing" cloaks could be achieved relatively simply, in the eyes of those who care. And none of the fixes would have any impact on the operation or usage of a Cloak itself.
1) Change Local into a "Recent Speakers" channel. Then you need never know there's an unfamiliar face in your system. This would nullify the paranoia that Pirates seem to suffer from whenever a cloaked CovOps is hiding in a distant corner of their system.
2) Implement an AFK Timer. If you have been completely unresponsive for a length of time, then you are disconnected from the server. This time is negotiable, though I think anything more than 1-3 hours is pushing it. And so long as you are chatting, using the Market, interacting with Contracts... basically anything that show you are not "Away From Keyboard", then you're fine. If you're cloaked, spying on the gathering fleet, and occasionally relaying info in Corp chat, you're good. If you parked somewhere deep and dark, and left your PC on all day while you're at work... you're booted.
3) Create a fitted module that allows for a "sonar ping" style of searching for Cloaks. It would only cover your current grid, so you can't search the entire system. And it would only display distance, meaning you have to move and rescan until you get close enough to bump them. And... if the pilot is alert, they can easily move about to avoid capture. AFKs on the other hand...
4) In wondering how to locate someone NOT on grid... it becomes controversial. Cloaks use a lot of Grav tech in their construction and usage. If a Grav probe could get you onto their grid, then you could use the module (#3) to find them. However, most will argue that Cloaks are the counter to Probes, and allowing Probes to find them is self-defeating. As I said, controversial.
HereÆs just a couple if ideas, none of which have anything to do with ôMake the Cloak weaker byàö No overheating, no resetting, and no guaranteed "iWin" buttons.
All theyÆd add is new tactics, new strategies, and new tricks for old dogs. |
lebrata
Hedion University
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Posted - 2009.01.27 17:52:00 -
[63]
 Originally by: Shaka Quatuic
I was on a defense op CAMPING a gate when I lost that one. decloaked to kill the sabre, got whacked instead. you see, there is this tactic of having a dedicated tab on the overview set to show only ships of a certain type? the moment I decloaked to hit the sabre I got primaried. I wasnt trying to hide... matter of fact I got praise for having the balls of steel to decloak a force recon under those circumstances. YOU FAIL
Actually considering that story you just told it was you that failed. And maybe your corp tells you that you have "balls of steel" for doing summat stupid but then the soft touch never did make good pilots in my opinion. YOU are responsible for your ship and your overview settings and all your losses are always your fault and excuses are not accepted and congratulations are a joke.
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Shaka Quatuic
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Posted - 2009.01.27 19:30:00 -
[64]
Originally by: lebrata
Originally by: Shaka Quatuic
I was on a defense op CAMPING a gate when I lost that one. decloaked to kill the sabre, got whacked instead. you see, there is this tactic of having a dedicated tab on the overview set to show only ships of a certain type? the moment I decloaked to hit the sabre I got primaried. I wasnt trying to hide... matter of fact I got praise for having the balls of steel to decloak a force recon under those circumstances. YOU FAIL
Actually considering that story you just told it was you that failed. And maybe your corp tells you that you have "balls of steel" for doing summat stupid but then the soft touch never did make good pilots in my opinion. YOU are responsible for your ship and your overview settings and all your losses are always your fault and excuses are not accepted and congratulations are a joke.
hahaha obviously you are misconstruing the reply then. I was not commenting on my OWN overview settings, but those of their anti-support, and gang commander. they did a good job of targeting me so quickly, and at no time did I say anything about whining about the loss, or not taking responsibility. I saw an opportunity to take on the sabre, and had reason to believe I could kill it and be gone again before they could react. my faulty tactical analysis, and I paid the price. once again, s**t happens. YOU FAIL because you attempted to take a ship loss out of its' proper context in a p**s poor attempt to impugn my argument. I am absolutely certain that I could do exactly the same to you, but don't bother myself with such stupidity. come back when you know how to debate.
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lebrata
Hedion University
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Posted - 2009.01.27 20:17:00 -
[65]
Edited by: lebrata on 27/01/2009 20:24:02
Originally by: Shaka Quatuic
Originally by: lebrata
Originally by: Shaka Quatuic
I was on a defense op CAMPING a gate when I lost that one. decloaked to kill the sabre, got whacked instead. you see, there is this tactic of having a dedicated tab on the overview set to show only ships of a certain type? the moment I decloaked to hit the sabre I got primaried. I wasnt trying to hide... matter of fact I got praise for having the balls of steel to decloak a force recon under those circumstances. YOU FAIL
Actually considering that story you just told it was you that failed. And maybe your corp tells you that you have "balls of steel" for doing summat stupid but then the soft touch never did make good pilots in my opinion. YOU are responsible for your ship and your overview settings and all your losses are always your fault and excuses are not accepted and congratulations are a joke.
hahaha obviously you are misconstruing the reply then. I was not commenting on my OWN overview settings, but those of their anti-support, and gang commander. they did a good job of targeting me so quickly, and at no time did I say anything about whining about the loss, or not taking responsibility. I saw an opportunity to take on the sabre, and had reason to believe I could kill it and be gone again before they could react. my faulty tactical analysis, and I paid the price. once again, s**t happens. YOU FAIL because you attempted to take a ship loss out of its' proper context in a p**s poor attempt to impugn my argument. I am absolutely certain that I could do exactly the same to you, but don't bother myself with such stupidity. come back when you know how to debate.
Assuming you are telling the truth about the story (and i am undecided on that tbh), but uncloaking right next to 2 ecm ships a dictor and a frig all of them proly able to lock you before your uncloaking delay was even over is not a sign of a particularly good decision making mechanism.
And if your corp was proud of you for doing so and thought you were "brave" and not "totally stupid" i suggest you leave and join one who's members are not mentally impaired. |
Shaka Quatuic
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Posted - 2009.01.27 20:37:00 -
[66]
Originally by: lebrata
Assuming you are telling the truth about the story (and i am undecided on that tbh), but uncloaking right next to 2 ecm ships a dictor and a frig all of them proly able to lock you before your uncloaking delay was even over is not a sign of a particularly good decision making mechanism.
And if your corp was proud of you for doing so and thought you were "brave" and not "totally stupid" i suggest you leave and join one who's members are not mentally impaired.
where the hell do you get the idea that I was 'right next to' all of those ships... does that appear anywhere in the killmail? if it does I would love to know. I saw an opportunity because the sabre was separated from them by about 25-30km, and their attention was elsewhere. I was fitted with arty so I engaged the sabre from a distance. their reaction was effectively instant, and I gladly give kudos to them for it - my decloak targeting delay in the rapier was roughly 4 seconds at the time IIRC.
in any case, if you really want to be able to criticize my skills, why dont you take me up on my challenge, instead of playing 'critique the killmail'? oh... thats right.... you're either afraid, or unable to. |
lebrata
Hedion University
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Posted - 2009.01.27 20:52:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Shaka Quatuic
where the hell do you get the idea that I was 'right next to' all of those ships... does that appear anywhere in the killmail? if it does I would love to know. I saw an opportunity because the sabre was separated from them by about 25-30km, and their attention was elsewhere.
The dmg on the KM shows that most if not all the ships were well within dmg range, if the falcon had been at range it would not have had any dmg shown on the KM.
25-30KM is nothing and the delay you get from decloaking + lock time on a sabre would give all including the falcon and BB plenty of time to lock you. Firstly making your cloak useless as well as bubbling and proly pointing you as well as giving both jammers a shot at nailing you with all their mids.
So yea maybe you can get past a camp or two but tbh your pvp knowledge and decision making are poor. |
LEGO Commander
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Posted - 2009.01.27 20:54:00 -
[68]
Are you two about done comparing epeen? |
Shaka Quatuic
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Posted - 2009.01.27 21:25:00 -
[69]
Originally by: lebrata
The dmg on the KM shows that most if not all the ships were well within dmg range, if the falcon had been at range it would not have had any dmg shown on the KM.
25-30KM is nothing and the delay you get from decloaking + lock time on a sabre would give all including the falcon and BB plenty of time to lock you. Firstly making your cloak useless as well as bubbling and proly pointing you as well as giving both jammers a shot at nailing you with all their mids.
So yea maybe you can get past a camp or two but tbh your pvp knowledge and decision making are poor.
once again... I am not in any way shape or form whining about my losses, and freely admit that I am not an uber pvp pilot, just that I am very good at using cloaks to elude the limited hunter tactics eve has as of now. your armchair analysis of killmails is irrelevant, as the issue is not pvp in any case. what exactly does it have to do with the topic here?
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Shaka Quatuic
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Posted - 2009.01.27 21:26:00 -
[70]
in any case I am done with lebrata... unless he wants a duel in the system of his choice. |
lebrata
Hedion University
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Posted - 2009.01.27 21:39:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Shaka Quatuic
what exactly does it have to do with the topic here?
Competence.
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Shaka Quatuic
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Posted - 2009.01.27 22:08:00 -
[72]
Edited by: Shaka Quatuic on 27/01/2009 22:11:18
bring it... alt. you dont even HAVE kills or losses on the battleclinic boards |
lebrata
Hedion University
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Posted - 2009.01.27 22:10:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Shaka Quatuic
bring it... alt.
U wanna 1 v 1 me on sissi?.
Sure. |
Shaka Quatuic
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Posted - 2009.01.27 22:12:00 -
[74]
why sissi? why not do it where it counts? |
lebrata
Hedion University
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Posted - 2009.01.27 22:14:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Shaka Quatuic
why sissi? why not do it where it counts?
This is a game so it does not count anywhere, but at least on sissi you can be moved into fd- and not have to travel across eve (and back) for a 1 v 1 fight. |
Shaka Quatuic
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Posted - 2009.01.27 22:21:00 -
[76]
Edited by: Shaka Quatuic on 27/01/2009 22:26:22
Originally by: lebrata
Originally by: Shaka Quatuic
why sissi? why not do it where it counts?
This is a game so it does not count anywhere, but at least on sissi you can be moved into fd- and not have to travel across eve (and back) for a 1 v 1 fight.
geez... why do you think I bothered to italicize counts? it wasn't meant to be quite that literal. besides... I rarely go on sisi - dont even have a 2nd client installed atm - got no problem installing it for the purpose though. what class of ship do you prefer to duel in? I am talking general class... not specific shiptype. |
lebrata
Hedion University
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Posted - 2009.01.27 22:26:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Shaka Quatuic
what class of ship do you prefer to duel in? I am talking general class... not specific shiptype.
Not fussed tbh, 1 v 1 can be won or lost by ship choice as much as actual skill, after all i already know your a mostly mini skill set pilot. |
Shaka Quatuic
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Posted - 2009.01.27 22:30:00 -
[78]
Edited by: Shaka Quatuic on 27/01/2009 22:31:33
well.. I more along the lines of keeping things in equivalent class... for instance frig v frig, AF vs AF, or even AF vs T1 cruiser. it wouldnt be much sense to put a vaga vs a T1 frigate for instance. any duel should be decided more by tactics and skill than by weapon choice.
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lebrata
Hedion University
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Posted - 2009.01.28 00:03:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Shaka Quatuic
well.. I more along the lines of keeping things in equivalent class... for instance frig v frig, AF vs AF, or even AF vs T1 cruiser. it wouldnt be much sense to put a vaga vs a T1 frigate for instance. any duel should be decided more by tactics and skill than by weapon choice.
Some cruisers are better than others at 1 v 1 and the same applies to pretty much every other class of ship that is why gang pvp is more skill intensive than 1 v 1.
Put a domi vs a amarr BS and unless the amarr BS knew it was gonna face a domi and fitted smarties i know where my money would be.
If you wanna 1 v 1 me get on sissi and pick a class of ship but do not expect any points if you win or and loss of face if you lose cos 1 v 1 is about ship choice more than skill and it always has been. |
LEGO Commander
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Posted - 2009.01.28 00:38:00 -
[80]
Can you two please take your aggressive posturing and playground mating rituals to Yahoo or something?
We all get it... when you like a girl, you punch her and run away.
This is neither the time, nor the place, to be trying to find love on the internet.
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Fullmetal Jackass
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Posted - 2009.01.28 13:32:00 -
[81]
Cloaks are gettin the bat. First was nos, then nano. Cloaks are up next. It's gonna happen. Just a matter how.
My guess is they will change local chat at the same time.
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Giribaldi
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Posted - 2009.01.30 12:59:00 -
[82]
i dont think cloaking will get touched but theonly thing they need to do to nerf cloaking is give the junk cloak 5 minutes then require reactivation
med cloak 1/2 hour and covert 3 hours
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SpawnSupreme
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Posted - 2009.02.09 11:57:00 -
[83]
nope i seen a dev talk about cloacking and how it is not geting any changes anythime in the forseeable future and im just fine and ok with that.
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Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2009.02.09 17:17:00 -
[84]
Originally by: SpawnSupreme
nope i seen a dev talk about cloacking and how it is not geting any changes anythime in the forseeable future and im just fine and ok with that.
fine, hope so |
bigbillthaboss2
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Posted - 2009.02.10 07:49:00 -
[85]
Just felt like saying I have seen someone cloak for 4 strait days and not move in a system... little ridiculous don't you think? I don't have a problem but put a AFK timer or something on, cloak should only last like 2 maybe 3 hours. |
SpawnSupreme
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Posted - 2009.02.12 13:09:00 -
[86]
should would and could change it but to most players we do not want one
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Robin Hodd
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Posted - 2009.02.12 16:43:00 -
[87]
GAAWWDD!!!
leave cloaking alone!!!
Honestly if a good dps ship could cloak and move fast then it would be an issue (lolsb=buggered) but at the moment i reckon the pilgrim is probably the recon that does the most damage, and as that damage is done by drones it can kind of hamper the cloak. Arazu doesnt do too much damage and you do still have to be kind of close to your target (30-40k), falcon is lol damage you just cant hit the bugger and no idea about the minmater one but they nerfed webs so...
These ships ALL take a lot of time to train for, they are (if you like) specialist ships, they ARE supposed to be good at hiding. And yes, 4 ships should be able to gank one although i dont think you'll find many using a cov ops for tackling when they can use an interceptor with better survivability. Black ops? you can just use a raven/domi (wait in another system and jump in when targets scrammed)
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Robin Hodd
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Posted - 2009.02.12 16:47:00 -
[88]
one more thing, having a way of finding cloakers is counter productive. If you can find cloakers then cloaked ships become useless, if you can be found why bother hiding? if your cloaked ship can be scanned down why the hell bother being in an arazu/falcon/pilgrim..minmater one... when they all have crap tanks and not extremely good dps? I think, alas, someone is missing the whole point of being able to cloak....
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Lady Aja
Caldari
Hannibals Pirates
Damnation of Souls
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Posted - 2009.02.13 10:09:00 -
[89]
simple measure for non covrt ops style ships using cloaking is...
all claoking devices that are not Covert ops cloaking device II, have a activation timer limit. say 2 minutes then you decloak and for the next 10 minutes it cannot be reacivated at all..
Or...
said cloaking device uses cap. once you run out of cap it deactivates or maybe goes offline.. cannot be made to cloak till youre cap is above 95% of its total cap.
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Luthien Tanuviel
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Posted - 2009.02.13 10:19:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Shaka Quatuic
and you guys say the players who want to have just a small chance to catch you at a safespot (through a great deal of hard work btw) are whiners... you all really need to look in a mirror.
um... thats really dumb, if u could catch a cloakerat a safe spot lol, wtf? then the cloaked ship would just warpabout all day like other ships.. LEAVE THE GORAMN NERFBAT ALONE!!!!
honestly, your ruining the game. If anything (and i stress anything) should be changed its some sort of probe launcher/probes dedicated to finding only ships and cloaked ships, and then with a hefty cpu on the launcher, and also some hefty skills for success rates and guess what?
Bet you any damn money you would pick a cov opsfor the job then whine that you keep getting found!!!
AAAARGGJYTTJHUIOHIOPHIHIP!!!!!!!
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