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Mouji AlMefel
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Posted - 2008.12.26 21:43:00 -
[61]
Players in most MMOs think of themselves as Pocket Devs rather than just players, most of which don't know the math, the big picture or even the true breadth of the topics they discuss.
I hate to see nerfs, especially when they usually are caused by devs responding to cry posts instead of a true design imperitive. BTW should we also nerf the sniper builds? They have extreem range and way more utility. If Falcons should be nerfed then so should Sniper Battleship builds.
Being able to stay at range and have an impact on the battle in Falcons or in Snipers are both fun and should both be options available to players who want to play that way. I think Arazu range should be increased and Damps should be buffed. But thats just me. If this were done then races could counter each other and provide more dynamics in the game. Bring some Stealth Bombers to the playground and maybe Falcons would be a little less effective? The EW abilities take allot to get and they should have a real and meaningfull effect on battles in Eve just like they do in RL.
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Tenox Teros
Club Bear
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Posted - 2008.12.27 07:43:00 -
[62]
 Originally by: Mouji AlMefel
Players in most MMOs think of themselves as Pocket Devs rather than just players, most of which don't know the math, the big picture or even the true breadth of the topics they discuss.
... uhm... I just want to get one thing clear: did you really just suggest stealth bombers as a viable counter to falcons? 
It's obvious you don't know the math, or big picture of the topic YOU discuss. Also, way to not read any of the previous posts. The majority of what you said has either been discussed, or is just plain incorrect.
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Kessiaan
Minmatar
Army of One
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Posted - 2008.12.27 07:49:00 -
[63]
The solution isn't to nerf Falcons, but to buff damps, at least on dedicated damp ships - give them range and cap bonuses like what the Falcon has and all will be well agian.
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Aleus Stygian
Failed Diplomacy
Collidable Objects
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Posted - 2008.12.27 10:29:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Kessiaan
The solution isn't to nerf Falcons, but to buff damps, at least on dedicated damp ships - give them range and cap bonuses like what the Falcon has and all will be well agian.
And that is going to balance them out against the other races how...? Even if there aren't ships capable of standing up against long-range ECM in all classes - in fact, most ships besides Recons and ECCM-fitted battleships are naturally screwed - there should be at least some in the whole ship lineups of every race.
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Rajere
No Trademark
Notoriety Alliance
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Posted - 2008.12.27 13:43:00 -
[65]
Quote:
The arazu is 10000000% a better tackler than the falcon....
Sadly, I disagree.
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NOTR
*nsfw* |
Cohkka
Celestial Apocalypse
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Posted - 2008.12.27 14:45:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Mouji AlMefel
Players in most MMOs think of themselves as Pocket Devs rather than just players, most of which don't know the math, the big picture or even the true breadth of the topics they discuss.
Quite a "few" players know how the gamemechanics work, and they know how this translates into the metagame. And I'm quite sure there are more people around who understand the game better than any of the devs. Thousands of people spend an enormous amount of time to learn the game and share their thoughts.
The Devs can see a bigger picture for the future of their game, we can't because we're not involved into developing. But everything that enters the game is subject to change.
Don't speak english, just F5, F5, F5... |
Xori Ruscuv
Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2008.12.27 14:51:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 27/12/2008 14:54:07
Originally by: Cohkka
Originally by: Mouji AlMefel
Players in most MMOs think of themselves as Pocket Devs rather than just players, most of which don't know the math, the big picture or even the true breadth of the topics they discuss.
Quite a "few" players know how the gamemechanics work, and they know how this translates into the metagame. And I'm quite sure there are more people around who understand the game better than any of the devs. Thousands of people spend an enormous amount of time to learn the game and share their thoughts.
The Devs can see a bigger picture for the future of their game, we can't because we're not involved into developing. But everything that enters the game is subject to change.
What Cohkka said.
Also, the devs have said that the most influence on the future of the game comes from player feed back. So, to all of you sit-back-and-let-it-happen-to-you simpletons: shut it! That's what you're accustomed to, isn't it? Oh I see, except when someone puts forth an opinion that you can't handle...
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Cautet
Cold Blooded Killers
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Posted - 2008.12.27 23:43:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Rajere
Quote:
The arazu is 10000000% a better tackler than the falcon....
Sadly, I disagree.
You don't like the 48km disrupter or the 18km scram much then? Or the ability to survive most drone ships?
I have seen you tanked tackle (bait?) falcons on your killboard with cyno and covert-cyno and i'm sure it works well when suprise is on your side, but that doesn't make the Arazu a worse tackler. In fact with large gates they are pretty usefull. Although cloaking delay followed by targets warping before tackling is a pain in all the cloaking recons.
Not sure why people insist on comparing Arazu to falcon. They are completely different ships with different roles and different purposes. Arazu makes a great small gang ship but for very different reasons than a falcon.
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NoNah
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Posted - 2008.12.27 23:46:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Cautet
Originally by: Rajere
Quote:
The arazu is 10000000% a better tackler than the falcon....
Sadly, I disagree.
You don't like the 48km disrupter or the 18km scram much then? Or the ability to survive most drone ships?
I have seen you tanked tackle (bait?) falcons on your killboard with cyno and covert-cyno and i'm sure it works well when suprise is on your side, but that doesn't make the Arazu a worse tackler. In fact with large gates they are pretty usefull. Although cloaking delay followed by targets warping before tackling is a pain in all the cloaking recons.
Not sure why people insist on comparing Arazu to falcon. They are completely different ships with different roles and different purposes. Arazu makes a great small gang ship but for very different reasons than a falcon.
Interesting interpretation of "I disagree", he could be saying It's a 10000000.6% better tackler or that they're about as good as eachother.
Parrots, commence!
Postcount: 350470
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Cautet
Cold Blooded Killers
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Posted - 2008.12.28 12:44:00 -
[70]
Originally by: NoNah
Originally by: Cautet
Originally by: Rajere
Quote:
The arazu is 10000000% a better tackler than the falcon....
Sadly, I disagree.
You don't like the 48km disrupter or the 18km scram much then? Or the ability to survive most drone ships?
I have seen you tanked tackle (bait?) falcons on your killboard with cyno and covert-cyno and i'm sure it works well when suprise is on your side, but that doesn't make the Arazu a worse tackler. In fact with large gates they are pretty usefull. Although cloaking delay followed by targets warping before tackling is a pain in all the cloaking recons.
Not sure why people insist on comparing Arazu to falcon. They are completely different ships with different roles and different purposes. Arazu makes a great small gang ship but for very different reasons than a falcon.
Interesting interpretation of "I disagree", he could be saying It's a 10000000.6% better tackler or that they're about as good as eachother.
His use of "SADLY, I disagree" (missing part highlighted) lead me to believe he was suggesting that Arazu is not a better tackler rather than a disagreement over the exact %.
His use of Falcons to tackle (as per various killboards) rather than Arazu suggested the conclusion I made as to the meaning of his phrase in the context it was made.
Anyway, despite from my belief that you cannot properly compare falcons and arazu due to their extremely different roles, I agree that Arazu needs a small/medium boost in the damp strength area, and that damps need to take less cap. Without such the arazu really suffers in fitting due to cap problems and having to use 3 sensor damps on a single (recon or t3 BS with normal fittings) target.
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Corrock
Minmatar
SUBLIME L.L.C.
SUBLIME CREATIONS ALLIANCE
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Posted - 2009.02.12 12:06:00 -
[71]
Edited by: Corrock on 12/02/2009 12:08:04
Originally by: Gunner Chick
Quote:
"Nerf everything! Nerf it all till the only viable option is to stand there and shoot and tank, like Real Men used to!" I think in their heart of hearts a lot of people really don't want to have think or plan or develop actual tactics.
Anti-whiner stance is fail. Tbh, as an old schooler amarr pilot that likes big tank and gank i kinda like your idea hahahaha
Lol. I'm currently training everything possible to improve a ship (not tellin' which:P) that can't move fast, tanks well, and can be simultaneously gank(-ish) fitted, so perhaps I'm not so far from you. Actually, I'm not anti-whine, since if I weren't too lazy to make a profile or a bio, I'd list "B itching and Moaning" as a hobby, just that this sort of whine in general annoys me. There's rarely any conception of variety or balance in the whines, just something along the lines of "Please take this thing I'm too lazy to do and don't really understand out of the game so I can train some skills to level 5 once, and then WTFPWN forever, Amen."
I think it's agreed that CCP tends to make things a little overpowered when first introduced, and then gets a little heavy-handed with the nerfbat sometimes, so that you never really know where you stand, and have to constantly be on your toes, and adapt, and- heyyyyy! It's all a plot! They're trying to manipulate us so we don't get bored and leave. Sneaky bast- err, fine young ladies and gentlemen. Nice devvie!
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Coronae Borealis
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Posted - 2009.02.12 12:59:00 -
[72]
Originally by: maralt
Originally by: Lady Rhayne
Subject says it all. Is it the one extra midslot or is there something else?
The arazu is 10000000% a better tackler than the falcon....
Yeah.
Arazu is better tackler. Arazu is also far more better fleet scout and beats other recons on scanning hostile ships from safespots and then tackling them.
Arazu can also fit armor buffer tank wich is far more better.
Arazu can make falcons useless with range damps, just make sure that you have sensorboosters and let the falcons uncloak first in the battle.
I really don't see that Falcon is that good. It just need to be countered correctly.
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Garia666
Amarr
T.H.U.G L.I.F.E
White Core
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Posted - 2009.02.12 13:08:00 -
[73]
being perma jammed over 195km
while dampner sux big time..
www.garia.net |
lecrotta
Minmatar
lecrotta Corp
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Posted - 2009.02.12 13:18:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Garia666
being perma jammed over 195km
while dampner sux big time..
Damps are great in 2-3 man gangs due to the fully predictable effect just like the extended point and all the other ewar systems....,apart from ecm. Damps, TD's and other effects always work while a failed jam could lose you a ship. In larger gangs the falcon is more effective than the other systems and none of the systems are particularly good in large fleets.
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TimMc
Gallente
Extradition
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Posted - 2009.02.12 13:35:00 -
[75]
Simply range. If arazu had a huge range bonus to damps it could compete, perhaps as dedicated damp platform rather than mix of tackle and damps.
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H Lecter
Gallente
The Black Rabbits
The Gurlstas Associates
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Posted - 2009.02.12 14:18:00 -
[76]
I would hate to see the Falcon nerfed although I do not fly it myself and have been jammed to hell and back already (mostly when I did not fit any ECCM on my battleship).
A buff to the Arazu's dampening range (maybe as a tradeoff taking away the dampener effectiveness bonus) would make things much more interesting and encourage more strategic thinking.
My opinion may or may not be shared by my alliance |
Gen Eisenhower
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.02.12 14:50:00 -
[77]
The topic name sounds like "Why is the guardian better than the scimitar".
No it isn't . It's different. And many different things is good.
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Endless Subversion
The Accursed
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Posted - 2009.02.12 17:25:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Gen Eisenhower
The topic name sounds like "Why is the guardian better than the scimitar".
No it isn't . It's different. And many different things is good.
So your argument can be summarized as "Seperate but Equal"?
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Pac SubCom
A.W.M
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Posted - 2009.02.12 18:32:00 -
[79]
Considering that the Arazu is one of the premier anti-falcon ships.
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∞ TQFE
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echohead
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Posted - 2009.02.12 22:18:00 -
[80]
I just want to point something out here. Falcons are great for fleets. But Arazu's are awesome for small gangs, and they are great for killing or disabling falcons.
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Joss Sparq
Caldari
ANZAC ALLIANCE
Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2009.02.12 22:47:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
The damp nerf was for the same reasons (though at a different time), damps were overpowered and every ship was using them. The only difference is CCP kind of forgot to fix damps on the dedicated damp ships.
This. I've always wondered why, too. As a Falcon pilot myself, I didn't (and still don't) think it was fair.
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Nicholas DW
Infusion.
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Posted - 2009.02.13 01:56:00 -
[82]
Who cares, just fly the Falcon.
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Amelie y
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.02.13 01:58:00 -
[83]
**** YEH FALCON
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DJ Tim
Chin Chinnery
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Posted - 2009.02.13 01:59:00 -
[84]
WTF, GO FALCON!
--~--
Don't Worry Baby, You Can Touch My Chin Anytime.
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Sh'iva
Warp Asylum.
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Posted - 2009.03.15 17:01:00 -
[85]
its the extra mid slot dude
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marakor
Gallente
Anti Lag Forum Smackers
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Posted - 2009.03.15 17:03:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Sh'iva
its the extra mid slot dude
Ok i was wrong in the other thread, THIS is the most pathetic excuse for a bump ever.
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