The truth of the matter is that you cannot FORCE someone to PvP.

I personally don't PvP. I absolutely detest PvP, and have avoided it in every game I've ever played. If my alliance gets a war dec, I simply stay in station and spend my time on EvE playing the market. If the war dec lasts too long, I will simply stop playing, logging on only to update skill queues.

I don't shoot ninjas who invade my mission space. Instead, I abandon all wrecks immediately. If there is a mission completion item, I will dock up and complete the mission later. Losing the time bonus doesn't bother me at all versus accidentally gaining agro from the invader. I don't want to fight you, and I will do everything in my power to make that abundantly clear.

I do not venture into lowsec space. I know that I am a huge target and that there are players all over that area of space looking to take me down at their first opportunity.


My question is:

Why does this bother some of you?

I enjoy the PvE aspect of the game, I really do. How does this affect the PvP players in any way? Are you trying to lower the subscriber base of EvE by driving out the people who don't see things the same way you do? I know that I am not alone in my playstyle, in fact most of my alliance members are mission runners or industrialists.

Can the blood hungry PvPers not see that blowing away industrialists is equivalent to shooting yourself in the foot? Who makes your ships that you so happily blow into space dust? Who mines the minerals? Who risks their freighter every time they jump into Jita?

Carebears do.

So, does it really make sense to push them out of the game in hopes that spaceships will start growing on trees?

Half the playerbase is only capable of thinking from their perspective and no one else. Don't let it bother you. Everyone bears in this game in one form or another.

Though I do frown on any corp pilot that will hide in station during a wardec and choose to not help their fellow corpmates. That makes you a selfish team mate in my eyes. With respect to running a hisec corp, I always say that the true character of a pilot comes out when a wardec occurs. Some will go off and selfishly do their own thing while others will proudly defend their home until the last Ibis goes down in a flame of glory.

It's really not about helping corpmates. We cannot win a war with PvP combat, none in my alliance are trained or prepared to fight people who PvP on a daily basis. Instead, we win the war by wasting their time so much that they go away. As I mentioned in the OP, you cannot force someone into PvP.

Instead of commiserating, you should learn how to do it.

Everyone is a noob once in every area. You have to try to learn.

Explain to me why PVE people are so slow to uptake the fact that they can learn to pvp too?

For the exact same reason that PVP people are so slow to uptake the fact that some players DO NOT WANT TO PVP. I have over 70 million skillpoints, none of which are PvP related. Hell, I can't even fit a warp scrambler to my ship. My active avoidance of all things PvP is due to the fact that I do not enjoy it in the slightest.

No, I don't have to try and learn PvP if I do not want to. I will continue to run missions and do other carebear activities for many more years, because I love this game.

Everyone is a noob once in every area. You have to try to learn.

Explain to me why PVE people are so slow to uptake the fact that they can learn to pvp too?

I think you missed the point about him saying that he has no interest in it.

The general question he's asking is "why does it bother the PVP players if someone doesn't want to PVP?"

I don't care if you want to PVP! This is EVE, and you signed up for a game which is one big giant open pvp arena.

Then why does CONCORD shoot you when you agress me in highsec?

To that question, it bothers me they want to change game mechanics to make themselves safer to avoid any unwanted pvp, thus ruining the game I love.

You still haven't answered my question. Why do you insist on PVPING people who aren't interested in, or cannot, fight back?

Because people like you cried on the forums back in 2003 enough to make CCP introduce concord. Besides, I can still gank you or get you to aggress me in lots of ways.

You still haven't answered my question. Why do you insist on PVPING people who aren't interested in, or cannot, fight back?

Because it's funny.

That's unfortunate. Honestly, your first answer was much better. "Changing game mechanics". This, "Because it's funny" is one of the worst reasons in any game whatsoever to take delight in ruining another person's game experience.

"For the thrill"
"For the kill mail"
"For the loot"
etc...
Those are good reasons.

Because you want to **** on someone isn't.

You still haven't answered my question. Why do you insist on PVPING people who aren't interested in, or cannot, fight back?

You say you have no interest in pvp yet you admit you take part in the market. That is a form of pvp just not shooting ships or seeing they guy you are fighting . The only way to not pvp in this game is to run missions. If you do any thing else you are compeating with other players. What you mean to say is why to people indigo on pvp against you on there terms and not yours.

Look a wartarget o/

And yes, you can't do any true PVE in this game. You are always competing with someone.

Btw thanks for the tower.

The truth of the matter is that you cannot FORCE someone to PvP.

I personally don't PvP. I absolutely detest PvP, and have avoided it in every game I've ever played. If my alliance gets a war dec, I simply stay in station and spend my time on EvE playing the market. If the war dec lasts too long, I will simply stop playing, logging on only to update skill queues.

I don't shoot ninjas who invade my mission space. Instead, I abandon all wrecks immediately. If there is a mission completion item, I will dock up and complete the mission later. Losing the time bonus doesn't bother me at all versus accidentally gaining agro from the invader. I don't want to fight you, and I will do everything in my power to make that abundantly clear.

I do not venture into lowsec space. I know that I am a huge target and that there are players all over that area of space looking to take me down at their first opportunity.


My question is:

Why does this bother some of you?

I enjoy the PvE aspect of the game, I really do. How does this affect the PvP players in any way? Are you trying to lower the subscriber base of EvE by driving out the people who don't see things the same way you do? I know that I am not alone in my playstyle, in fact most of my alliance members are mission runners or industrialists.

Can the blood hungry PvPers not see that blowing away industrialists is equivalent to shooting yourself in the foot? Who makes your ships that you so happily blow into space dust? Who mines the minerals? Who risks their freighter every time they jump into Jita?

Carebears do.

So, does it really make sense to push them out of the game in hopes that spaceships will start growing on trees?

Extra credit bonus question:

Are there not enough people actively looking for PvP that instead PvP players must turn to harassing PvE players?

I would hazard a guess that for players who are actually good at PvP, no attention is paid by them to the PvE players.

The problem lies in those who cannot hold their own in PvP either through lack of skill training, or simply pilot skill. They cannot seek out a fight with someone who wishes to fight, so instead they come to force their will on the unwilling.

Those who say bear tears are the best tears are wrong. Pirate tears are far sweeter. Plus, you can find them in any thread about CCP changing highsec mechanics in favor of the PvE player! No pesky scanning or trickery required.

I would hazard a guess that for players who are actually good at PvP, no attention is paid by them to the PvE players.

The problem lies in those who cannot hold their own in PvP either through lack of skill training, or simply pilot skill. They cannot seek out a fight with someone who wishes to fight, so instead they come to force their will on the unwilling.

Those who say bear tears are the best tears are wrong. Pirate tears are far sweeter. Plus, you can find them in any thread about CCP changing highsec mechanics in favor of the PvE player! No pesky scanning or trickery required.

Touche good WT touche

My question is:

Why does this bother some of you?

Because people like you cried on the forums back in 2003 enough to make CCP introduce concord. Besides, I can still gank you or get you to aggress me in lots of ways.

It's really not about helping corpmates. We cannot win a war with PvP combat, none in my alliance are trained or prepared to fight people who PvP on a daily basis. Instead, we win the war by wasting their time so much that they go away. As I mentioned in the OP, you cannot force someone into PvP.

How does a npc corp go to war? How do you have an alliance?

What I wonder is why someone who is not interested in PVP at all would pay monthly fees for a PVP-oriented game. You might as well play a singleplayer game like X-¦ and have no other players at all. As Ludi said, even on the market you're entirely interacting with other player, essentially non-combat PVP as well. If you can call it that. The thing is, unless you play a classic MMO like WOW on a PVE server, you can't escape other players, no matter how much you want to.

When Goonswarm came up, CCP actually took the time to think about, if they should do something about it, which to me, indicates that this was not intended.
The fact that CCP decided not to act on it, has nothing at all to do with what EVE was actually meant for.

When large scale scams and theft came to play, CCP actually took the time to think about what to do about it.
The fact that CCP decided not to act on that either, has nothing at all to do with what EVE was actually meant for.

You can't deny that EVE is and simply has more PVP than most other MMOs. Whether or not that was what EVE was "actually meant for" is not relevant. The fact is, PVP happens in EVE, it happens a lot, EVE is a lot less controlled and policed than most other MMOs, and that's the environment you have to accept when you sign up for EVE.

Sitting there in HiSec and claiming that mean players, pirates and people who PVP are either bad or playing wrong is just inappropriate. As you said, there's no "right" way to play EVE, but following that, there's no "wrong" way either.

I think it's just a little pretentious and ignorant to claim that pirates and "mean" players are bad at the game because they prey on weak targets. As if they're bound to assign to some code of honor or sportsmanship to prove their ability. I bet most of those players could handle any given ship better than the miner they just blew up, because they didn't spend half their days sitting in an asteroid field in HiSec clicking a button every 2 minutes and watching cash roll in.

While your question is not actually that weird, i have to ask, how long have you been playing EVE?
You think most people would post things like this with their main char?

...
Why does this bother some of you?
...

Then why does CONCORD shoot you when you agress me in highsec?

You still haven't answered my question. Why do you insist on PVPING people who aren't interested in, or cannot, fight back?

Because they're carebears just like you. Ignore high sec "pvpers" For the most part they're just scrubs who cant hack it else where.

O one other thing.
When i was a little kid, playing in a sandbox at school, i used to love destroying other people's sandcastle's, but others used to love making them.

What I wonder is why someone who is not interested in PVP at all would pay monthly fees for a PVP-oriented game. You might as well play a singleplayer game like X-¦ and have no other players at all. As Ludi said, even on the market you're entirely interacting with other players, essentially non-combat PVP as well. If you can call it that. The thing is, unless you play a classic MMO like WOW on a PVE server, you can't escape other players, no matter how much you want to.

The thing is, unless you play a classic MMO like WOW on a PVE server, you can't escape other players

a classic MMO like WOW

My question is:

Why does this bother some of you?

I enjoy the PvE aspect of the game, I really do. How does this affect the PvP players in any way? Are you trying to lower the subscriber base of EvE by driving out the people who don't see things the same way you do? I know that I am not alone in my playstyle, in fact most of my alliance members are mission runners or industrialists.

Can the blood hungry PvPers not see that blowing away industrialists is equivalent to shooting yourself in the foot? Who makes your ships that you so happily blow into space dust? Who mines the minerals? Who risks their freighter every time they jump into Jita?

Carebears do.

So, does it really make sense to push them out of the game in hopes that spaceships will start growing on trees?

Extra credit bonus question:

Are there not enough people actively looking for PvP that instead PvP players must turn to harassing PvE players?

For the exact same reason that PVP people are so slow to uptake the fact that some players DO NOT WANT TO PVP. I have over 70 million skillpoints, none of which are PvP related. Hell, I can't even fit a warp scrambler to my ship. My active avoidance of all things PvP is due to the fact that I do not enjoy it in the slightest.

No, I don't have to try and learn PvP if I do not want to. I will continue to run missions and do other carebear activities for many more years, because I love this game.

For people that are dead set on not even learning to defend themselves, much less get aggressive, there is probably no way that you could ascertain the mentality behind the joy of breaking open a pinata full of fancy faction stuff. This is a game where we are all allowed to do this within certain limitations, so why not.

Apparently I should clarify.

I am NOT advocating NOR suggesting that all PvP should be removed from the game. PvP is a very important part of every MMO game ever introduced.

What I am addressing in my OP is the sort of 'forced pvp' that occurs against players who have no ability to defend themselves. Please understand that I am not speaking of any specific incident or tactic. This is not about suicide ganking, can flipping, highsec war decs, or anything of the sort. it is about players who spend their time in game solely trying to upset and harass other players.

Some will go off and selfishly do their own thing while others will proudly defend their home until the last Ibis goes down in a flame of glory.

Can the blood hungry PvPers not see that blowing away industrialists is equivalent to shooting yourself in the foot? Who makes your ships that you so happily blow into space dust? Who mines the minerals? Who risks their freighter every time they jump into Jita?

Carebears do.

So, does it really make sense to push them out of the game in hopes that spaceships will start growing on trees?

[
If you don't care about PVP why are you not just playing skyrim or mass effect or something? I'm sure there are 100s of different games with better PVE gameplay that Eve.

Could turn this just around like: If you're so into PVP, why don't you just play CS?

EVE is far more complex than relying only on "kill, boom, bang", it has a complex economy, a social community, some just play the game for trade, production, or R&D - simply to stay in contact with friends, to chat, joke and for fun.

And this complexity was the intention, not another silly "high noon in space".

The truth of the matter is that you cannot FORCE someone to PvP.

I personally don't PvP. I absolutely detest PvP, and have avoided it in every game I've ever played. If my alliance gets a war dec, I simply stay in station and spend my time on EvE playing the market...

... and there is fails. EVE markets are PVP. So you are doing pvp. And you are even forced to do so by a war dec.

The truth of the matter is that you cannot FORCE someone to PvP.

I personally don't PvP. I absolutely detest PvP, and have avoided it in every game I've ever played. If my alliance gets a war dec, I simply stay in station and spend my time on EvE playing the market.

My question is

Why does this bother some of you?

I enjoy the PvE aspect of the game, I really do. How does this affect the PvP players in any way?

Are you trying to lower the subscriber base of EvE by driving out the people who don't see things the same way you do?

Can the blood hungry PvPers not see that blowing away industrialists is equivalent to shooting yourself in the foot? Who makes your ships that you so happily blow into space dust? Who mines the minerals? Who risks their freighter every time they jump into Jita?

If my alliance gets a war dec, I simply stay in station and spend my time on EvE playing the market.

I find it interesting that I made a post regarding non-consensual pvp (ganking) and people try to derail the thread into a discussion about how the market is pvp, how mining is pvp, etc etc etc.

The truth of the matter is that you cannot FORCE someone to PvP.

I personally don't PvP. I absolutely detest PvP, and have avoided it in every game I've ever played. If my alliance gets a war dec, I simply stay in station and spend my time on EvE playing the market. If the war dec lasts too long, I will simply stop playing, logging on only to update skill queues.

I don't shoot ninjas who invade my mission space. Instead, I abandon all wrecks immediately. If there is a mission completion item, I will dock up and complete the mission later. Losing the time bonus doesn't bother me at all versus accidentally gaining agro from the invader. I don't want to fight you, and I will do everything in my power to make that abundantly clear.

I do not venture into lowsec space. I know that I am a huge target and that there are players all over that area of space looking to take me down at their first opportunity.


My question is:

Why does this bother some of you?

I enjoy the PvE aspect of the game, I really do. How does this affect the PvP players in any way? Are you trying to lower the subscriber base of EvE by driving out the people who don't see things the same way you do? I know that I am not alone in my playstyle, in fact most of my alliance members are mission runners or industrialists.

Can the blood hungry PvPers not see that blowing away industrialists is equivalent to shooting yourself in the foot? Who makes your ships that you so happily blow into space dust? Who mines the minerals? Who risks their freighter every time they jump into Jita?

Carebears do.

So, does it really make sense to push them out of the game in hopes that spaceships will start growing on trees?

Extra credit bonus question:

Are there not enough people actively looking for PvP that instead PvP players must turn to harassing PvE players?

[Eve] is PVP. Do you run incursions? Another fleet can contest a site and reap all the rewards when your fleet did almost half the work. Are you an explorer? Even in highsec someone can come along, race you to the acceleration gate in a DED 4/10 site, and be the one who gets the expensive loot even though you did 90% of the shooting. Even miners can engage in a small amount of PVP against other miners: itGÇÖs possible to mine asteroids out from under other miners, wasting their cycles and reducing their yield significantly.

...

Now, I could say that I have no interest in that PVP. I just want to buy a few ships, I might say, and not have to fly 10 jumps to get what I need at a decent price. ItGÇÖs non-consentual PVP and I want no part in it. CCP should put all the items in one big pool, sell them at fixed prices, and have them instantly delivered to wherever you are when you buy them. That way I can play the game how I want to play it. Hyperbole? Certainly. But sometimes hyperbole is necessary to make a point.

I've been thinking about this lately. In EvE I recently became a miner. At this point I can spare time for that, I cannot commit to something more - like null sec. However I am a very competitive player, even if I am not competing in any kind of PvP in EvE, at this point. So it really baffles me when someone comes to me and wants to kill my Retriever, that could last a few shots tops. How is that logical? And what does that say for the player doing it? To me, as someone who has been PvP-ing and playing on a very high level in quite a few online games, this is not PvP. This is what happens when sad people are trying to make other people sad.

I am only going to say this one more time.

This thread is about:

- Suicide ganking
- Invading missions to bait mission runners into agressing


This thread is NOT about:

- War
- Lowsec roams
- Nullsec territory battles
- Market PvP
- Mining PvP
- Contesting incursion sites
- Ninjaing complexes


Seriously, it kinda makes me wonder about the people who either cannot or will not understand what this thread is about, despite several attempts by me to keep it on track.

PvP is a result not a cause. It doesn't matter WHY one player kills another, it is the act of killing other players that is PvP. Whether someone is a threat, or an ally is irrelevant to the term PvP. As someone who has been PvPing in other games, you haven't really been PvPing if you don't intrinsically understand this.

Yes, we comprehend what you are saying, but you are still wrong.

Player vs Player happens, when your actions in game gain you an advantage over the other player(s). Cornering a market is example of such an action, your operation robbed the income from a dozen of other traders. A small victory for you, player vs player.

When you find a Guristas Scout Outpost in hisec, and another player finds the same site, you race to pop the radar, player vs player.

When you fire your weapons on another ship, it's called combat. The player VERSUS player thing took place before that. His effort to find and lock your weak, unprotected ship, versus your effort to do **** all about to prevent that from happening.

The ganker faces consequences every time, he loses his ship, gets a security status hit and you receive kill rights. Whether or not you use your legal right is up to you.

By the way, I've been lately mining Arkonor, Bistot, Cronkite and Dark Ochre until my little bear paws bleed. I don't belong to a sov-holding alliance, and I don't need CONCORD to protect me, I live in lawless space. All I need for my security is my planning, and my handful of trusty corpmates.

This is a sandbox, with total freedom to be or not to be a victim.

We must fit, we must anticipate, we must have corpmates for protection, alts etc. All that effort just to protect ourselves from some random douche bag with a low cost frigate.

And btw what defines an "industrialist"?

I've built a stockpile of hundreds of cruisers and battlecruisers in anticipation of Inferno, more is in the cooker all the time. From BPOs I've researched (in lowsec before I figured I could do it in our POS, btw, the queues are shorter there), now even mining minerals and recycling loot as the supply is currently poor and prices high. I harvest gas. I've collected a big pile of salvage, decryptors and Incognito tool thingies for rig manufacturing and invention later.

I enjoy all these things in addition to blowing up spaceships, because I can. It's a sandbox.

The ganker faces consequences every time, he loses his ship, gets a security status hit and you receive kill rights. Whether or not you use your legal right is up to you.

...

There is some loot and some salvage from what the ship was fitted with. Most gankers are doing it for tears and to upset other people. A lot of them take joy in the suffering of others.

Apparently I should clarify.

I am NOT advocating NOR suggesting that all PvP should be removed from the game. PvP is a very important part of every MMO game ever introduced.

What I am addressing in my OP is the sort of 'forced pvp' that occurs against players who have no ability to defend themselves. Please understand that I am not speaking of any specific incident or tactic. This is not about suicide ganking, can flipping, highsec war decs, or anything of the sort. it is about players who spend their time in game solely trying to upset and harass other players.

What am trying to ascertain is the mentality behind spending hours upon hours in game not trying to make progress for oneself, but instead trying to impede the progress of others.

I've been around long enough to know that the majority of people who engage in non-consensual PvP do it for "the lolz" or "tears", but what does this really mean? I would love to have someone take my question seriously and provide a serious answer, rather than hiding behind whatever meme they deem appropriate.


I actually have massive amounts of respect for those who participate in PvP outside empire space. Highsec bullies, not so much.

I've been thinking about this lately. In EvE I recently became a miner. At this point I can spare time for that, I cannot commit to something more - like null sec. However I am a very competitive player, even if I am not competing in any kind of PvP in EvE, at this point. So it really baffles me when someone comes to me and wants to kill my Retriever, that could last a few shots tops. How is that logical? And what does that say for the player doing it? To me, as someone who has been PvP-ing and playing on a very high level in quite a few online games, this is not PvP. This is what happens when sad people are trying to make other people sad. Now I'm a new player in Eve, I've invested some Isk on a BC, then some on this Retriever which has an expensive fit(for my in game finances). Then some sad person comes and destroys my humble investment in this Retriever. He's not doing any sort of PvP by doing so, because I do not pose any kind of threat. My ship is not armed and cannot be defended. I'm just there doing what I've decided to do.

The big issue is, that there are no consequences. Losing a silly frigate is not a consequence. It's a laughable loss. Now if someone was to come in RL to my work place and punch me in the face, do you think, that this person will face no consequences to this act of aggression towards me? You bet your ass he will. There will be severe consequences ranging from me punching him back, to me suing the guy.

See the thing is, most people feel safe behind their computers. And this brings out their real self. The one that's full of sh*t. And because they can't spew their sh*t in RL, they do it in game, and claim it to be PvP. It is not. It is no different than RL griefing. A game is a game, but when you are involved with other people, there should be boundaries to what you can do and consequences when you cross them. As simple as that.

How many will come and destroy my little Retriever to make their little penises feel good, if say they became an outlaw in all of High Sec and are shot on sight by Concord for a longer period of time? Why not? I lose a lot when I lose a huge investment, they lose nothing. I risk a lot going out to mine, they risk nothing. Generally most people are idiots and this is why good behavior is enforced in RL and should be enforced in Eve, the same way it's enforced in every other MMO.

By the way, by calling ganking high sec mining ships PvP, you really insult yourself.

There is some loot and some salvage from what the ship was fitted with. Most gankers are doing it for tears and to upset other people. A lot of them take joy in the suffering of others.

my only problem with pvp is how hard it is to get into. going at it solo just wont work, and if you do find a corps, the games so utterly cutthroat youre just as likely to get killed by a corpmate as anyone else.

This guy gets it.

Anyone who says they're lol-blapping industrialists for the modules is a liar. It's always been about that three seconds of giggling we do while sitting next to your wreck in our wreck.

The big issue is, that there are no consequences. Losing a silly frigate is not a consequence. It's a laughable loss. Now if someone was to come in RL to my work place and punch me in the face, do you think, that this person will face no consequences to this act of aggression towards me? You bet your ass he will. There will be severe consequences ranging from me punching him back, to me suing the guy.

Omnomnom, posting in tear thread :)

Bottom line: EVE is a PVP game, be it shooting people, stealing their ****, undercutting their market orders, suicide ganking their 3bil tengus, it all comes down to PVP.

The second you log in, you are accepting that people can and probably will shoot you, scam you, steal your **** and then laugh at you in local.

The absolute best thing about eve is that if you want to, you can go and kill anyone, anywhere, any time with the right planning.
Personally i dont gank for profit since there are far easier and better ways of making isk.
I do suicide gank on occasion when my sec status is high enough, generally I fit out a gank ship and pick a target at random in whatever system I happen to be in.
Why? because i can :)

And whats essentially wrong with non-consensual pvp in high sec? It is well within the rights of anyone to do so... And if you have a problem with people who do it for fun, then you misunderstand what a 'game' is.

Why? because i can :)

To that question, it bothers me they want to change game mechanics to make themselves safer to avoid any unwanted pvp, thus ruining the game I love.

maybe if you try to engage pvp-minded people this will not bother you anymore? We understand this is not an easy to fight when you can loose.... but you should try

I am only going to say this one more time.

This thread is about...This thread is NOT about...

Even on the forums, you think you can dictate the behavior of others. That speaks volumes. Also, I like how that immediately followed my post that stated the EVERYTHING in Eve is PVP, and you simply dismissed it with "but I don't want to talk about that."

If you sell stuff on the market, you participate in PVP. Anyone who wants to by anything is FORCED to do the same. How DARE you push your gameplay on us.

Is it absolutely impossible to contemplate the idea that not every high-sec killrer of a miner might have the same motives for doing so?

Apparently I should clarify.

I am NOT advocating NOR suggesting that all PvP should be removed from the game. PvP is a very important part of every MMO game ever introduced.

What I am addressing in my OP is the sort of 'forced pvp' that occurs against players who have no ability to defend themselves. Please understand that I am not speaking of any specific incident or tactic. This is not about suicide ganking, can flipping, highsec war decs, or anything of the sort. it is about players who spend their time in game solely trying to upset and harass other players.

What am trying to ascertain is the mentality behind spending hours upon hours in game not trying to make progress for oneself, but instead trying to impede the progress of others.

I've been around long enough to know that the majority of people who engage in non-consensual PvP do it for "the lolz" or "tears", but what does this really mean? I would love to have someone take my question seriously and provide a serious answer, rather than hiding behind whatever meme they deem appropriate.


I actually have massive amounts of respect for those who participate in PvP outside empire space. Highsec bullies, not so much.

...
The alt corp used was less than half their size, with characters as young as 5 days. No kills to the corps name. The target was offered help by two alliances but instead just disbanded...

The problem is you don't want to do anything else and expect someone else to change the rules to help you.

OP didn't, actually. He just asked why it bothers some people he does not want to do PvP.

But I guess part of the answer is "because some people who prefer not to spend a lot of time demanding that rules be changed to support their stance, so you are easily mistaken for someone like that".

Cry more stupid pirate... I love pirate tears.

If you want to make stupid comments about how everything is PvP, make your own thread.

Sarcasm isn't your strong point, is it?

Mmmm...no.

If you want to avoid one kind of PVP, then we should all be able to avoid all kinds of PVP. Therefore we need:

-fixed market prices
-instanced missions, incursions, and exploration
-PVP dueling in deadspace pockets
-infinite ore asteroids so that miners can't cut each other's cycles
-total protection from scamming
-the inability to engage in aggressive acts in highsec

If that's the game you want, I think you came to the wrong place. If it's not the game you want, if you like Eve for all the competition and opportunities it provides, then you have to accept all varieties of PVP. Even those you don't like.

Erased my internet history, wiped my hard-drive, burned my tower, smashed the monitor, scattered the remains into the street, called the police, called MI5, called the FBI, called Samaritans, swallowed a bunch of pills then wrote this whilst choking to death on my own vomit on my phone.

I live in lo sec and get into fights like that all the time, don't worry.

You still haven't answered my question. Why do you insist on PVPING people who aren't interested in, or cannot, fight back?

The truth of the matter is that you cannot FORCE someone to PvP.

I personally don't PvP. I absolutely detest PvP, and have avoided it in every game I've ever played. If my alliance gets a war dec, I simply stay in station and spend my time on EvE playing the market. If the war dec lasts too long, I will simply stop playing, logging on only to update skill queues.

I don't shoot ninjas who invade my mission space. Instead, I abandon all wrecks immediately. If there is a mission completion item, I will dock up and complete the mission later. Losing the time bonus doesn't bother me at all versus accidentally gaining agro from the invader. I don't want to fight you, and I will do everything in my power to make that abundantly clear.

I do not venture into lowsec space. I know that I am a huge target and that there are players all over that area of space looking to take me down at their first opportunity


My question is

Why does this bother some of you

I enjoy the PvE aspect of the game, I really do. How does this affect the PvP players in any way? Are you trying to lower the subscriber base of EvE by driving out the people who don't see things the same way you do? I know that I am not alone in my playstyle, in fact most of my alliance members are mission runners or industrialists.

Can the blood hungry PvPers not see that blowing away industrialists is equivalent to shooting yourself in the foot? Who makes your ships that you so happily blow into space dust? Who mines the minerals? Who risks their freighter every time they jump into Jita?

Carebears do

So, does it really make sense to push them out of the game in hopes that spaceships will start growing on trees

Extra credit bonus question

Are there not enough people actively looking for PvP that instead PvP players must turn to harassing PvE players?

The only reason I can see for a ganker to actually go out ganking and call it PVP, is that they are so afraid of losing a fight that they are to scared to actually go into NULL or W-space where the real PVPers are.

Your weakness reminds me of a baby lamb who is destined to become veal...shivering in a dark corner of a filthy barn, cut off from all light and nourishment. It's ok though. Soon you will become a delicacy. I, for one, cannot wait to sink my teeth in you.

What I am addressing in my OP is the sort of 'forced pvp' that occurs against players who have no ability to defend themselves.

Gankers don't call it pvp. They call it ganking, and it's usually for profit or tears. There is a difference and the only people to confuse the term and use of it are carebears who don't know any better.

The truth of the matter is that you cannot FORCE someone to PvP.

I personally don't PvP. I absolutely detest PvP, and have avoided it in every game I've ever played. If my alliance gets a war dec, I simply stay in station and spend my time on EvE playing the market. If the war dec lasts too long, I will simply stop playing, logging on only to update skill queues.

I don't shoot ninjas who invade my mission space. Instead, I abandon all wrecks immediately. If there is a mission completion item, I will dock up and complete the mission later. Losing the time bonus doesn't bother me at all versus accidentally gaining agro from the invader. I don't want to fight you, and I will do everything in my power to make that abundantly clear.

I do not venture into lowsec space. I know that I am a huge target and that there are players all over that area of space looking to take me down at their first opportunity.

My question is: Why does this bother some of you?

Then maybe you should be playing a game that only has consensual PvP. Maybe you and the rest of your little carebear circle jerk **** buddies should play a game that fits what you want in a game instead of repeatedly joining games that are the opposite of what you want and crying like a ***** until the game is ruined for the players who actually had the common sense to play a game they liked in the first place. Your kind won. 99% of the MMO market is full of games designed for people just like you. Go play them instead of whining until the developers ruin one of the only games left designed for people like me.

The title of part two sums it up nicely; "Fun is for children. Adventure is for adults.".

By death what we are really talking about is the concept of risk. This can be distilled even further: dying in a MMO is all about risking the investment of your time.

It took a while, but I finally got some hardcore tears. Well done Lord Dravius, well done.

See? I knew deep in your timid little carebear heart you were capable of some form of aggression. I'm so proud of you.