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Israeli Tanks & Support Move Into Gaza

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Nalta Nightbringer Amarr Angels of the Abyss	Posted - 2009.01.03 20:12:00 - [1] You may already know this, but I wanted to post this topic here in OOP do to the largely international community to discuss what could come of this new turn of events. As cited here and here Israel has begun the hotly debated (amongst Israeli forces) ground invasion of the Gaza Strip. This does not bode well for any sort of long term peace for the countries in the Middle East (as if peace could ever be possible in that region of the world). Do you think this could be the preamble to a long and bloody war between Israel and other sovereign nations or terrorist groups? Could this war inadvertently draw the US Military or Israeli Allies into the conflict? Does Hamas have the support of any sovereign nation, such as Iran, or only the support of other "terrorist" groups such as Hezbollah? World War 1 was started because Archduke Francis Ferdinand was assassinated, and Austria-Hungary declared war on Serbia. Because of the system of military alliances during this time period (and like today) not just one country went to war against Serbia, but Germany and Italy also; could this also be the case with Israel and Hamas? Or is this just another conflict amongst hundreds that will eventually result in a cease fire and more diplomatic negotiations, forgotten in 5 years.
Shanzem Minmatar DarkStar 1 GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.01.03 20:15:00 - [2] Originally by: Nalta Nightbringer You may already know this, but I wanted to post this topic here in OOP do to the largely international community to discuss what could come of this new turn of events. As cited here and here Israel has begun the hotly debated (amongst Israeli forces) ground invasion of the Gaza Strip. This does not bode well for any sort of long term peace for the countries in the Middle East (as if peace could ever be possible in that region of the world). Do you think this could be the preamble to a long and bloody war between Israel and other sovereign nations or terrorist groups? Could this war inadvertently draw the US Military or Israeli Allies into the conflict? Does Hamas have the support of any sovereign nation, such as Iran, or only the support of other "terrorist" groups such as Hezbollah? World War 1 was started because Archduke Francis Ferdinand was assassinated, and Austria-Hungary declared war on Serbia. Because of the system of military alliances during this time period (and like today) not just one country went to war against Serbia, but Germany and Italy also; could this also be the case with Israel and Hamas? Or is this just another conflict amongst hundreds that will eventually result in a cease fire and more diplomatic negotiations, forgotten in 5 years. Quote: Another conflict amongst hundreds that will eventually result in a cease fire and more diplomatic negotiations, forgotten in 5 years. -------------------------------------------
Sokratesz Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2009.01.03 20:17:00 - [3] I find it disgusting how the two sides of the conflict are differently represented in the western media. Wyvern & Chimera fitting flowchart
Rob Z0mbie	Posted - 2009.01.03 20:17:00 - [4] welp, i live there, so ill keep you posted \(o.0)/
Rob Z0mbie	Posted - 2009.01.03 20:19:00 - [5] Originally by: Sokratesz I find it disgusting how the two sides of the conflict are differently represented in the western media. i stick to the BBC and Aljazeera personall :/ \(o.0)/
Captain Hudson Caldari Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2009.01.03 20:20:00 - [6] Edited by: Captain Hudson on 03/01/2009 20:24:16 ah so thats why i was bombarded by arabs fighting police in high street kensington, bloody isrealie embassy is there, was only trying to do a bit of shopping!. im sure Iran is going to stick its nose in, allowing Bush to complete his mission in his final days!. But srsly, the only thing this ground invasion is going to do is make more people join these radical groups and perhaps even end embrassingly for Isreal like lebanon did Iv found him
Afale II Perkone	Posted - 2009.01.03 20:22:00 - [7] I see Jew hate incoming. please lock this thread.
Rob Z0mbie	Posted - 2009.01.03 20:24:00 - [8] Originally by: Afale II I see Jew hate incoming. please lock this thread. I doubt it. Its not about anyone hating Jews. and there are victims on both sides you know. \(o.0)/
Nalta Nightbringer Amarr Angels of the Abyss	Posted - 2009.01.03 20:26:00 - [9] Originally by: Afale II I see Jew hate incoming. please lock this thread. This is meant to be an open discussion on this developing conflict. As far as the moderators are concerned, if anyone posts anything offensive to the people of Israel, just wipe that post instead of killing the thread.
Sakura Nihil Stimulus Rote Kapelle	Posted - 2009.01.03 20:28:00 - [10] All I can say is go Israel. Their accuracy is lacking, but they have to do something to stop those rocket attacks one way or another. Football? Hell yes.
Rob Z0mbie	Posted - 2009.01.03 20:49:00 - [11] Originally by: Sakura Nihil All I can say is go Israel. Their accuracy is lacking, but they have to do something to stop those rocket attacks one way or another. ... I find this offensive and off topic. over 60 Palestinian babies dead, countless women and children and innocent men, out of the 450 dead and 2000+ wounded in under 4 days only barely 70-80 are Hamas personnel. And yeah, i won't call them terrorists You don't live here so please don't make sweeping statements like that. I find it offensive when someone belittles my people's suffering just as much as a Jew listening to someone belittling\denying the holocaust I'm sure Israel could have spent more time infiltrating and carefully sniping Hamas leaders, we've seen the CIA and Mosad do it before. There are sociological reasons for those "rocket" attacks, and being an atheist i believe the better solution could be achieved easily through sociology\psychology\anthropology and understanding what causes those militants to grow ever more zealous, angry and violent. Israel DOES have the intellectual and financial capital to do so, especially when compared to a 3rd world status of the Palestinian territory, their lack of infrastructure and funds. Israel is after all occupying that part of the area, having checkpoints, guard towers and settlements at very crucial areas in that part of the country. Arab leaders should intervene, their has been an outcry regarding their lack of intervention and the peoples of those countries are protesting about it. So hopefully we'll see them get involved soon to try and put an end to the bloodshed. If things are let to progress and become worse the world might find itself in a serious predicament Hezbollah decide to join in the fight. Which will make things very difficult for Israel and might force the united states to intervene, which might then cause Iran to join in, and well, the world might go to hell then I hope things stop very soon, and that the world does something to resolve this conflict because everyone has a stake in this. especially considering the recent economic condition. \(o.0)/
Sokratesz Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2009.01.03 20:53:00 - [12] Originally by: Sakura Nihil All I can say is go Israel. Their accuracy is lacking, but they have to do something to stop those rocket attacks one way or another. Do you watch fox news? Wyvern & Chimera fitting flowchart
Kyguard Knockaround Guys Inc.	Posted - 2009.01.03 21:11:00 - [13] Originally by: Sakura Nihil All I can say is go Israel. Their accuracy is lacking, but they have to do something to stop those rocket attacks one way or another. There is nothing more ignorant than someone cheering a side in a war. -
Jake Silence	Posted - 2009.01.03 21:11:00 - [14] It's really too bad that the people living in refugee camps can't tell the insurgents setting off rockets next to their homes to GTFO for fear of being killed. Terrorist groups WANT and NEED civilian casualties to support their agendas. That they hide arms and ammunition inside mosques, apartment buildings, and tent cities just proves how much their neighbors mean to them in comparison to their "struggle".
TimMc Gallente Brutal Deliverance OWN Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.03 21:18:00 - [15] Originally by: Sakura Nihil All I can say is go Israel. Their accuracy is lacking, but they have to do something to stop those rocket attacks one way or another. While it is not morale or politically correct to cheer war, I can understand the reasons Israel are doing it and I do support them in that regard. Hamas has been annoying them for a long time, and Israel has been restrained for much longer than ANY country like USA or UK would have been. That said, Israel is likely to go over the top in their reaction and civilians will be hurt. Statistics of civilian deaths aren't as bad as one would expect though. But again, every death is a tragedy.
Rulkez Gentlemen Bastards	Posted - 2009.01.03 21:34:00 - [16] Originally by: TimMc Originally by: Sakura Nihil All I can say is go Israel. Their accuracy is lacking, but they have to do something to stop those rocket attacks one way or another. While it is not morale or politically correct to cheer war, I can understand the reasons Israel are doing it and I do support them in that regard. Hamas has been annoying them for a long time, and Israel has been restrained for much longer than ANY country like USA or UK would have been. That said, Israel is likely to go over the top in their reaction and civilians will be hurt. Statistics of civilian deaths aren't as bad as one would expect though. But again, every death is a tragedy. Really ? i must have missed the war against the IRA and other republican groups then .
Rob Z0mbie	Posted - 2009.01.03 22:01:00 - [17] Originally by: Rulkez Originally by: TimMc Originally by: Sakura Nihil All I can say is go Israel. Their accuracy is lacking, but they have to do something to stop those rocket attacks one way or another. While it is not morale or politically correct to cheer war, I can understand the reasons Israel are doing it and I do support them in that regard. Hamas has been annoying them for a long time, and Israel has been restrained for much longer than ANY country like USA or UK would have been. That said, Israel is likely to go over the top in their reaction and civilians will be hurt. Statistics of civilian deaths aren't as bad as one would expect though. But again, every death is a tragedy. Really ? i must have missed the war against the IRA and other republican groups then . American Indians too \(o.0)/
Grimpak Gallente Celestial Horizon Corp. Celestial Industrial Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.03 22:49:00 - [18] I vote for nuking both sides from orbit. just to be sure. --- Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals. ain't that right.
Arianhod	Posted - 2009.01.03 22:51:00 - [19] Originally by: Grimpak I vote for nuking both sides from orbit. just to be sure. Nah, Malta would get some fallout. Both sides are in the wrong imho, but neither will ever back down. Don't be surprised if we are hearing about this in 100 years or so if one of them isn't completely wiped out... Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007. Haruhiists - Supporting Linkification since 2008
Grimpak Gallente Celestial Horizon Corp. Celestial Industrial Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.03 22:53:00 - [20] Originally by: Arianhod Originally by: Grimpak I vote for nuking both sides from orbit. just to be sure. Nah, Malta would get some fallout. Both sides are in the wrong imho, but neither will ever back down. Don't be surprised if we are hearing about this in 100 years or so if one of them isn't completely wiped out... then we shall nuke Malta too. and if anyone complains, nuke them aswell. --- Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals. ain't that right.
Arianhod	Posted - 2009.01.03 22:53:00 - [21] Originally by: Grimpak Originally by: Arianhod Originally by: Grimpak I vote for nuking both sides from orbit. just to be sure. Nah, Malta would get some fallout. Both sides are in the wrong imho, but neither will ever back down. Don't be surprised if we are hearing about this in 100 years or so if one of them isn't completely wiped out... then we shall nuke Malta too. and if anyone complains, nuke them aswell. Well I'm sure France has arms deals in their somewhere.... Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007. Haruhiists - Supporting Linkification since 2008
Stitcher Caldari Duty.	Posted - 2009.01.03 23:05:00 - [22] Edited by: Stitcher on 03/01/2009 23:06:12 A conflict where both sides are equally at fault. Lovely. Wouldn't it be nice if everyone was nice? Why can't we all just get along? Kum Ba Ya etc. I think everyone knew that the situation between Hamas and Israel was going to end in blood at some point. Only way to end the violence over there within, say, the next fifty years would be to scour one faction or the other from the face of the Earth, and that's not a contingency that any right-minded person is ever going to seriously consider. Thank Christ this happened just as Dubya's on his way out, then. - Captain Verin "Stitcher" Hakatain.
Liranan M'8'S Frontal Impact	Posted - 2009.01.03 23:08:00 - [23] Originally by: Rob Z0mbie i stick to the BBC and Al Jazeera personall :/ You want the truth? Watch Al Jazeera. I have Jewish friends and they are disgusted by what is happening and do not support Israel in any shape or form. And if they do not support Israel who do the people on the outside think they are to support this? Farjung is my God You people need to open your eyes and read threads before you mindlessly spam the New Thread link.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. The Firm.	Posted - 2009.01.03 23:14:00 - [24] I can't find it in myself to care any more. This sums it up pretty well
Wendat Huron Stellar Solutions	Posted - 2009.01.03 23:38:00 - [25] Let's just hope for a lot of israeli dead, just like we did in Iraq, going into asymmetrical wars with impunity is bad for mankind. Delenda est achura.
Rob Z0mbie	Posted - 2009.01.03 23:47:00 - [26] Edited by: Rob Z0mbie on 03/01/2009 23:47:59 Originally by: Wendat Huron Let's just hope for a lot of israeli dead, just like we did in Iraq, going into asymmetrical wars with impunity is bad for mankind. Hell man im an Arab and i don't even wish that, though chances are that's going to be the case. They won't be pulling out anytime soon, and we all know by now what guerrilla warfare can do. Israeli infantry started their invasion nearly 6 hours ago, and 5 soldiers are already reported dead. \(o.0)/
Wendat Huron Stellar Solutions	Posted - 2009.01.03 23:51:00 - [27] Originally by: Rob Z0mbie Edited by: Rob Z0mbie on 03/01/2009 23:47:59 Originally by: Wendat Huron Let's just hope for a lot of israeli dead, just like we did in Iraq, going into asymmetrical wars with impunity is bad for mankind. Hell man im an Arab and i don't even wish that, though chances are that's going to be the case. They won't be pulling out anytime soon, and we all know by now what guerrilla warfare can do. Israeli infantry started their invasion nearly 6 hours ago, and 5 soldiers are already reported dead. You're missing the point, it's not about the soldier, or the individual, it's about the concept of war, it always have to hurt and hurt bad, once a side can enter a war without the hurt it's all over. Delenda est achura.
fairimear Gallente S.A.S Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2009.01.04 00:00:00 - [28] Simple Israel = supported by Western Secular society. Gaza/Hamas = Part/ties to Monotheistic Society. ANY 1 who understands what these 2 Sociological types mean understands that the 2 are basically opposing forces like positive and negative. Unstoppable force meets immovable object ect ect ect. Lots would argue other wise and given time i could explain but tbh most won't understand or will pick not to. Basically neither side has a valid claim to the land. It's been owned by so many over history it's a load of bull and if that argument wants to get started just about Every European/Middle eastern country can lay claim to it. SO long term has to be shelfed. Short term. Israel's Action for the last 10 years have been almost entirely defensive. Hamas up to 2 years ago had a total destruction of Israel policy. Israel almost lets Aid in to Gaza and Hama's rockets them. *Bringing a type of class to PL.*
Adyriana	Posted - 2009.01.04 00:12:00 - [29] Its because of the Falcon, isn't it?
KingsGambit Caldari Knights	Posted - 2009.01.04 00:24:00 - [30] Moral Clarity in Gaza - Washington Post By Charles *****hammer Friday, January 2, 2009; A15 Late Saturday, thousands of Gazans received Arabic-language cell-phone messages from the Israeli military, urging them to leave homes where militants might have stashed weapons. -- Associated Press, Dec. 27 Some geopolitical conflicts are morally complicated. The Israel-Gaza war is not. It possesses a moral clarity not only rare but excruciating. Israel is so scrupulous about civilian life that, risking the element of surprise, it contacts enemy noncombatants in advance to warn them of approaching danger. Hamas, which started this conflict with unrelenting rocket and mortar attacks on unarmed Israelis -- 6,464 launched from Gaza in the past three years -- deliberately places its weapons in and near the homes of its own people. This has two purposes. First, counting on the moral scrupulousness of Israel, Hamas figures civilian proximity might help protect at least part of its arsenal. Second, knowing that Israelis have new precision weapons that may allow them to attack nonetheless, Hamas hopes that inevitable collateral damage -- or, if it is really fortunate, an errant Israeli bomb -- will kill large numbers of its own people for which, of course, the world will blame Israel. For Hamas, the only thing more prized than dead Jews are dead Palestinians. The religion of Jew-murder and self-martyrdom is ubiquitous. And deeply perverse, such as the Hamas TV children's program in which an adorable live-action Palestinian Mickey Mouse is beaten to death by an Israeli (then replaced by his more militant cousin, Nahoul the Bee, who vows to continue on Mickey's path to martyrdom). At war today in Gaza, one combatant is committed to causing the most civilian pain and suffering on both sides. The other combatant is committed to saving as many lives as possible -- also on both sides. It's a recurring theme. Israel gave similar warnings to Southern Lebanese villagers before attacking Hezbollah in the Lebanon war of 2006. The Israelis did this knowing it would lose for them the element of surprise and cost the lives of their own soldiers. That is the asymmetry of means between Hamas and Israel. But there is equal clarity regarding the asymmetry of ends. Israel has but a single objective in Gaza -- peace: the calm, open, normal relations it offered Gaza when it withdrew in 2005. Doing something never done by the Turkish, British, Egyptian and Jordanian rulers of Palestine, the Israelis gave the Palestinians their first sovereign territory ever in Gaza. What ensued? This is not ancient history. Did the Palestinians begin building the state that is supposedly their great national aim? No. No roads, no industry, no courts, no civil society at all. The flourishing greenhouses that Israel left behind for the Palestinians were destroyed and abandoned. Instead, Gaza's Iranian-sponsored rulers have devoted all their resources to turning it into a terror base -- importing weapons, training terrorists, building tunnels with which to kidnap Israelis on the other side. And of course firing rockets unceasingly. The grievance? It cannot be occupation, military control or settlers. They were all removed in September 2005. There's only one grievance and Hamas is open about it. Israel's very existence. -------------

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