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Low Sec: Withering in the shadow of Null Sec

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Jessie-A Tassik Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 61	Posted - 2012.04.15 15:03:00 - [1] - Quote I've looked at the "advantages" of Low Sec, mining doesn't pay that much more at all..... But it sure pays better in Null Sec. Planets aren't that much better than High Sec.... But they sure are better in Null Sec. Moons aren't that great... But they sure are better in Null Sec.. and all of this "gain" for what is obviously tremendously more risk. While there seems some effort to make Faction Warfare and Exploration "good" for Low-Sec...... It seems that the developers panic at the thought of giving Low Sec mining or planetary or moon buffs cause that would make Null Sec slightly less absurdly over the top profitable. So Low Sec is left "very small trivial amount better than High Sec". But it IS NOT trivially better when you factor in ship loss. That you can't use a Freighter to move goods. That Refining rates are poorer. That the Market is less well stocked with goods. In return, 10-50 percent more "gain"... before losses that is. If people were Rational Actors trying to maximize ISK per hour, they would never go into Low Sec at all. Because everything that should go to Low Sec is sucked into the "More Money, More Money" for Null Sec.
Lanasak School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 64	Posted - 2012.04.15 15:19:00 - [2] - Quote what make incursions exclusive to lowsec, problem solved
Roime Shiva Furnace 478	Posted - 2012.04.15 15:24:00 - [3] - Quote You sound like a butthurt-over-nothing hisec bear. If you are so damn jelly over what nullsec residents have, why not go there and stop whining? Lowsec planets are a lot better than in hi, there's great PVP, blobs are rare and if you want to be by yourself, there's plenty of room for you.
YuuKnow The Long Kiss Goodnight 188	Posted - 2012.04.15 15:25:00 - [4] - Quote What is this? One line per sentence? Learn to write correctly, otherwise, post this bad don't even deserve a response. yk
Darth Tickles Dark Sun Consortium 230	Posted - 2012.04.15 15:28:00 - [5] - Quote Lowsec definitely needs some work. The proposed FW changes look like they're moving in the right direction, and I hope CCP continues to commit resources to making lowsec a viable and unique playstyle. WHs have shown that a few balanced differences in mechanics can create a whole new alternative playstyle, and it would be amazing for the game in general if they were able to reach a similar balance for lowsec.
Testerxnot Sheepherder DeadHeads - Question Authority Crew 97	Posted - 2012.04.15 15:31:00 - [6] - Quote YuuKnow wrote: What is this? One line per sentence? Learn to write correctly, otherwise, post this bad don't even deserve a response. yk lolololol Am I the only one noticing the hypocrisy in this post?
Simetraz State War Academy Caldari State 202	Posted - 2012.04.15 15:39:00 - [7] - Quote Low-sec resides between High-sec and 0.0. So to use a common term it is on the pipe which is always more dangerous then being isolated in a dead end constellation. There are some low-sec havens where people are enjoying themselves collecting ISK but it is entirely dependent on geography. So for the most part Low-sec will always be the way it is now, no matter what CCP does as far as game mechanics. High-sec , low-sec, 0.0 was never really a valid game progression. Don't get me wrong, low-sec does serve a purpose and for some they call it home. But it is low-sec and expecting some magical change that will populate it will never happen.
Alavaria Fera GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 417	Posted - 2012.04.15 15:40:00 - [8] - Quote Jessie-A Tassik wrote: Because everything that would make Low Sec profitable is sucked into the "More Money, More Money" for Null Sec. Yep. Delicious tech moons that, if you touch, will cry out for titans to drop on you. Oh what was that about your Venal tech moons? Didn't want them anyway huh ... Take all the tech Build all the titans Drop all the POSes Bees incoming, nerf ERRYTHING ERRYDAY
Vaerah Vahrokha Vahrokh Consulting 574	Posted - 2012.04.15 15:45:00 - [9] - Quote Jessie-A Tassik wrote: Low Sec should AT LEAST have the ABC minerals and better planets and buffed moons. I recall mining some high ends in low sec... Auditing \| Collateral holding and insurance \| Consulting \| PLEX for Good Charity Twitter channel
Tobiaz Spacerats 192	Posted - 2012.04.15 15:48:00 - [10] - Quote Roime wrote: You sound like a butthurt-over-nothing hisec bear. If you are so damn jelly over what nullsec residents have, why not go there and stop whining? Lowsec planets are a lot better than in hi, there's great PVP, blobs are rare and if you want to be by yourself, there's plenty of room for you. PvP is low sec is rare, unless you stick around the bottleneck and FW systems and there you WILL get blobbed pretty quickly, not to mention you are likely to get hotdropped if you try to do something about it. Everywhere else the systems are either empty or everyone quickly docks or hides in their POS whenever someone pops up in local. For individuals and smaller corporations low-sec is MUCH more risky then when you're part of a big null-alliance and live in the very safe hinterlands. Yet the rewards hardly represent that. It's a simple fact that the population of low-sec is much, much lower then most of the null-sec systems that have stations in them, and because WH clearly show people are willing to take risks as long as the rewards are appropiate, it's obvious that the rewards in low-sec are simply too low. http://go-dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/Tobiaz/sig_complaints.gif How about fixing image-linking on the forums, CCP? I want to see signatures!
Tobiaz Spacerats 192	Posted - 2012.04.15 15:49:00 - [11] - Quote Vaerah Vahrokha wrote: Jessie-A Tassik wrote: Low Sec should AT LEAST have the ABC minerals and better planets and buffed moons. I recall mining some high ends in low sec... Something you can do in null and W-space as well, yet with a lot less risk. http://go-dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/Tobiaz/sig_complaints.gif How about fixing image-linking on the forums, CCP? I want to see signatures!
Adunh Slavy Ammatar Trade Syndicate 624	Posted - 2012.04.15 16:01:00 - [12] - Quote Simetraz wrote: So for the most part Low-sec will always be the way it is now, no matter what CCP does as far as game mechanics. Maybe. The crimewatch 2 may have an impact, although I think it is going to fall a bit short. With the new systems +5s can go after pirates and shoot first with out a sec status hit. Where this will fall short is that it is +5s v -5s. That leaves far too much area in the middle. +2s v -2s would tighten it up considerably. We'll see what's in store when the devblog comes, and how it plays out.
ElQuirko Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic 558	Posted - 2012.04.15 16:25:00 - [13] - Quote YuuKnow wrote: What is this? One line per sentence? Learn to write correctly, otherwise, post this bad don't even deserve a response. yk "What is this? One Line per sentence? Learn to write correctly" - Fixed your double spacing, although the forum shows no double spacing in quotes. "Learn to write correctly - post this bad don't even deserve a response" - Removed unnecessary use of the word "otherwise" "Learn to write correctly - posts this bad don't even deserve a response / a post this bad doesn't even deserve a response" - structured in a way that makes much more sense Think we've got a case of the pot calling the kettle black here, people. (For anyone that doesn't know what that means - he's a hypocrite.) If we distribute pictures of people, does that mean God can file copyright claims under SOPA?
Aqriue Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 554	Posted - 2012.04.15 16:31:00 - [14] - Quote Lulzec is that shithole that you plop your poophole over and release the contents...of your rage. Its ment to be a wasteland, because since you the player were given it by CCP to do as you wish you decided to play FPS shoot everything on grid gate camps...basicly you destroyed lowsec by playing easy mode and just blasting the **** out of everything instead of taking advantage of the level 5s, higher paying level 4s, the ores that are better then highsec ores but its far to dangerous so why bother....yep lulzec is a shithole and it is your fault for the way you play. It doesnt need a buff, because it already has far better options then highsec but highsec has a better community and the CONCORD bully to keep everything in check.
Kessiaan Greater Order Of Destruction Happy Endings 173	Posted - 2012.04.15 16:38:00 - [15] - Quote NPC null is really a hidden gem, IMO. Way better ISK than lowsec, no gate/station guns to get in the way, and no having to deal with sov. ever. My killboard - http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=Kessiaan
Gorki Andropov Kerensky Initiatives 302	Posted - 2012.04.15 16:42:00 - [16] - Quote Roime wrote: You sound like a butthurt-over-nothing hisec bear. Well, he's obviously butthurt over something so I guess that throws your argument out the window
Vaerah Vahrokha Vahrokh Consulting 574	Posted - 2012.04.15 17:31:00 - [17] - Quote Tobiaz wrote: Vaerah Vahrokha wrote: Jessie-A Tassik wrote: Low Sec should AT LEAST have the ABC minerals and better planets and buffed moons. I recall mining some high ends in low sec... Something you can do in null and W-space as well, yet with a lot less risk. Of course, but I was just correcting the statement. Auditing \| Collateral holding and insurance \| Consulting \| PLEX for Good Charity Twitter channel
Jessie-A Tassik Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 61	Posted - 2012.04.15 18:48:00 - [18] - Quote Alavaria Fera wrote: Jessie-A Tassik wrote: Because everything that would make Low Sec profitable is sucked into the "More Money, More Money" for Null Sec. Yep. Delicious tech moons that, if you touch, will cry out for titans to drop on you. Oh what was that about your Venal tech moons? Didn't want them anyway huh ... Wasn't it awesome in the old days when a Bright Wizard bomb squad could wipe out 30+ characters just BOOM! Oh wait, I meant, wasn't it great in the old days when a Titan's Doomsday device was AOE and could be fired through a Cynosural Field and wipe out dozens of ships just BOOM? That's actually more stupid than Bright Wizard bomb squads. Ha ha. But heh, Eve is the only spaceship MMO so you are fine for now. Dust is gonna fail though. Even the Null Bear cried out against that insane gimme to Null Bears... who are the only group rich enough, or with the SOV to build such things. That the Titan exists is another point of developers favoring Null Sec.
Vaerah Vahrokha Vahrokh Consulting 574	Posted - 2012.04.15 19:02:00 - [19] - Quote Jessie-A Tassik wrote: Wasn't it awesome in the old days when a Bright Wizard bomb squad could wipe out 30+ characters just BOOM! Oh wait, I meant, wasn't it great in the old days when a Titan's Doomsday device was AOE and could be fired through a Cynosural Field and wipe out dozens of ships just BOOM? That's actually more stupid than Bright Wizard bomb squads. Ha ha. But heh, Eve is the only spaceship MMO so you are fine for now. Warhammer Online player spotted! BTW my sorceress would still kill you. Auditing \| Collateral holding and insurance \| Consulting \| PLEX for Good Charity Twitter channel
Vyl Vit Cambio Enterprises 416	Posted - 2012.04.15 19:56:00 - [20] - Quote Lanasak wrote: make incursions exclusive to lowsec, problem solved This way...the "pirates" will have a pool of victims! Shrewd. Anyone with any sense has already left town.
Kale Eledar Mining and Industrial Services The Irukandji 23	Posted - 2012.04.15 20:03:00 - [21] - Quote I see your points, OP, but you're sort of leaving out the fact that lowsec has an abundance of stations accessible by everyone which can certainly make it easier to live there. The Irukandji is recruiting PVP pilots! APPLY NAO. You won't regret it. See our info at : -áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=70811&find=unread
Sri Nova Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 54	Posted - 2012.04.15 20:24:00 - [22] - Quote As stated earlier in this thread. the only thing wrong with low sec is the players them selves. CCP wants the players to make what they will of the space provided, On the whole the players have mostly abandoned low sec this is not CCP's fault . It is the players lack of will to work together to make low sec work. The exception is the players, who do work together or, play smartly in low sec. they profit, and they profit well. So if you want to improve lowsec get a corp together set up shop and go play .
Jessie-A Tassik Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 64	Posted - 2012.04.15 21:25:00 - [23] - Quote Vyl Vit wrote: Lanasak wrote: make incursions exclusive to lowsec, problem solved This way...the "pirates" will have a pool of victims! Shrewd. If the incursions require a certain number of people on line, and loot is buffed a little, then it is an interesting idea. Sansha should attack everyone. Crazy times man, crazy times.
Souvera Corvus SPORADIC MOVEMENT 32	Posted - 2012.04.16 05:05:00 - [24] - Quote Tobiaz wrote: PvP is low sec is rare Along with your abusive trolling in another low-sec related thread, this gives me the impression you have absolutely no bloody idea what you're talking about. Sri Nova wrote: As stated earlier in this thread. the only thing wrong with low sec is the players them selves. The players who live in low-sec have no issue with it, we find its those who don't who spawn these daft 'Lo-sec is dying' threads.
Chokichi Ozuwara Royal One Piece Corporation Deadly Unknown 100	Posted - 2012.04.16 05:07:00 - [25] - Quote Souvera Corvus wrote: Along with your abusive trolling in another low-sec related thread, this gives me the impression you have absolutely no bloody idea what you're talking about. RELAX BRO Tears will be shed and pants will need to be changed all round.
Geodeath Fist of God 21	Posted - 2012.04.16 07:19:00 - [26] - Quote Kessiaan wrote: NPC null is really a hidden gem, IMO. Way better ISK than lowsec, no gate/station guns to get in the way, and no having to deal with sov. ever. I don't think lowsec is terribly broken tbh, it works for the people who live there who want more casual pvp than what you find in most of nullsec (even NPC nullsec) and easier access to markets. The 'problems' with lowsec stem from the fact that it's right next to highsec, which might as well be a different game from the rest of EvE. People jump into lowsec and get smoked because they don't understand how EvE works outside of highsec, not because it's broken mechanics-wise. All that said I still think lowsec could use some buffs to pull more of the casual pvpers in. I have high hopes for Inferno. For years I avoided lowsec because it is totally different. Just starting to spend a lot more time there and it has literally been a blast. I just pay for losses in sec status and ships with a little old fashoned level 4 grinding. For some reason I have let this challenging and fun part of eve elude me all these years. My favorite part of lowsec recently has been extended roams. I can tell you that flying an internet spaceship in lowsec feels much better than the robotic malaise of grinding hisec that I have done for years. My name is Geodeath and I am a recovering carebear. I have been sober for several weeks.
Espen Egak Bootleg Vitamin Something Posing As Meat 34	Posted - 2012.04.16 07:36:00 - [27] - Quote Jessie-A Tassik wrote: I've looked at the "advantages" of Low Sec, mining doesn't pay that much more than High Sec at all..... But it sure pays better in Null Sec. Planets aren't that much better than High Sec.... But they sure are better in Null Sec. Moons aren't that great... But they sure are better in Null Sec.. and all of this "gain" for what is obviously tremendously more risk. While there seems some effort to make Faction Warfare and Exploration "good" for Low-Sec...... It seems that the developers panic at the thought of giving Low Sec mining or planetary or moon buffs cause that would make Null Sec slightly less absurdly over the top profitable. So Low Sec is left "very small trivial amount better than High Sec". But it IS NOT trivially better when you factor in ship loss. That you can't use a Freighter to move goods. That Refining rates are poorer. That the Market is less well stocked with goods. In return, 10-50 percent more "gain"... before losses that is. If people were Rational Actors trying to maximize ISK per hour, they would never go into Low Sec at all. Because everything that would make Low Sec profitable is sucked into the "More Money, More Money" for Null Sec. Low Sec should AT LEAST have the ABC minerals and better planets and buffed moons. I know, I know. What about Null Sec? Well, since that is all you think about, they have been really over-buffed. Just get the Nerf Hammer out and pound them. No nerf to severe. Do PvP .. that is what happens in Low-sec all the time .. problem solved
Vaal Erit Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 153	Posted - 2012.04.16 08:00:00 - [28] - Quote Low sec is underpopulated because null sec is unpopulated and because it is too easy to make isk in high sec. I could write a lot but it basically boils down to: Why fly in low sec when I can make more isk in null sec and have an alliance to give me intel/resources? Why fly in low sec when I can make more isk in high sec and act like a complete moron and never die? If you can get the most experience and best equipment in the starter zone, why would you ever leave? There needs to be some sweeping changes to get the population of EVE spread out. Larger fees on corporation offices in high sec compare to low/null. Larger fees on market/manufactuing/research in high sec compared to low/null. Big axe to level 4 bounties, etc, etc, etc. I have no problem with people spending 100% of their time in relative safe high sec but you shouldn't be the richest in EVE, you should be swimming in taxes and dreaming of exploring EVE for riches.
Adunh Slavy Ammatar Trade Syndicate 631	Posted - 2012.04.16 16:39:00 - [29] - Quote Vaal Erit wrote: There needs to be some sweeping changes to get the population of EVE spread out. One of the best things they could do is change agro and sec status mechanics so that you do not end up being a pirate just to live there defending your self from pirates. He who shoots first in Eve has a huge advantage. That, and the results of it, are a big part of what keeps people from low sec.
Abraxas666 Shockwave Innovations Stellar Economy Experts 1	Posted - 2012.04.16 17:19:00 - [30] - Quote As a generalization the reason low-sec is sparsely populated is because it's between high-sec and null-sec regarding risk versus reward. High-sec offers little reward (ignoring incursions which are unbalanced in this aspect) for almost no risk while null-sec offers high reward but at a high risk. Most people prefer the lowest risk (I don't want to get jumped!) or the highest reward (Let them come, it won't matter if I can replace my ship and still make profit), there are few who want something in-between.

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