Ridiculous. Skill acquisition is a strategic part of "playing" EVE. It's where the player visualizes the game, themselves in the game, and proceeds to make decisions targeted toward getting a handle ON the game. What you suggest is like a golfer choosing the nine iron for a shot requiring a seven. He fails. He requests a do-over 'cause he "wasted his shot."

If you "wasted" your time and skilled up areas useless to you, guess what? You made a bad strategic decision and your "game" will reflect that. If you don't want a bunch of "wasted" skills, DON'T STUDY THEM. I've talked to a lot of hotshots who "had it all figured out" what was important and what was "a joke". They charged ahead and did the "cool" thing, thinking they were God's gift to gaming. Now, they've had to live their dream, they aren't feeling so smart after all.

Why didn't you entitle this post, "CCP, Don't Make Me Pay For My Stupid Mistakes"?

You go live with yourself
I'll go live with myself
But it is me who has to live
With myself.

Hey everyone, as we all know, the learning curve in EVE Online is quite steep. This picture sums it up quite nicely : http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3088/2335016192_6003c39c4c_z.jpg?zz=1

I could bet that everyone who still uses their first character as their main character has a LOT of wasted skillpoints. I'd like to purpose that CCP Implement a ONE TIME ONLY total skillpoint reallocation AFTER 5 million or maybe 10 million total skillpoints. This could possibly be ever one time per account should it become a problem. Or even time based, such as having to hold the character on your account for a year or more before AND have the skillpoint requirement before reallocation becomes available.

Let me know what you guys think. Suggestions on refining this are greatly welcome.

Kinda blew past the learning curve part of my post, didn't ya?

I say nay!!!!!

If CCP nerfs R&D Agents and makes Data Cores available only through Factional Warfare Loyality Points Stores, then I want all skillpoints in the 'Research Project Management' skill to be reimbursed as well as the ISK amount for the skillbook. The rest of the science skills are still needed for invention and production.

No, no, no - this is the path to hell.

I object to your post, and not just because you can't spell "propose"

It's like saying in RL lets start again, it does not happen in RL so why should it in EVE.

its not really about new players or mistakes, its about completely changing careers or playstyles... i'l never understand the butthurt eve players get when people suggest ideas like this

Supported, people don't have to make new accounts anymore if they want to go indy or whatever. Cost 1 plex or so.

Because it turns characters into a selection of (more or lessGǪ probably less, in the case of those making the suggestion) carefully selected skills into just being a pile of SP. It creates an xp/level system in a game that is blissfully devoid of any such mechanics.

The thing is also that the GÇ£problemsGÇ£ it is meant to solve don't exist. You can already completely change career or playstyle GÇö just train it. Again, this is not one of those level-based games where you pick a class and you're restricted to a particular skill tree that determines what you can do. You can pick anything you like at any time. At no point are you locked into any particular play style.

One-time or not, I'll just use my standard copypasta for this idea:

It removes the point of having skills to begin with.
It removes the point of having attributes.
It removes attribute implants from the game.
It removes variety and instead encourages FOTM and cookie-cutter setups.
It removes the uniqueness, history and "character" of your character.
It removes planning and choice and consequences.
It removes goal-setting, progression and any achievement in those areas.
It kills character trading.
It massively boosts older characters over new ones.
It introduces "catching up" as a concept in EVE and instantly makes it impossible to do.

Ridiculous. Skill acquisition is a strategic part of "playing" EVE. It's where the player visualizes the game, themselves in the game, and proceeds to make decisions targeted toward getting a handle ON the game. What you suggest is like a golfer choosing the nine iron for a shot requiring a seven. He fails. He requests a do-over 'cause he "wasted his shot."

If you "wasted" your time and skilled up areas useless to you, guess what? You made a bad strategic decision and your "game" will reflect that. If you don't want a bunch of "wasted" skills, DON'T STUDY THEM. I've talked to a lot of hotshots who "had it all figured out" what was important and what was "a joke". They charged ahead and did the "cool" thing, thinking they were God's gift to gaming. Now, they've had to live their dream, they aren't feeling so smart after all.

Why didn't you entitle this post, "CCP, Don't Make Me Pay For My Stupid Mistakes"?

most of this would hold true,.. if you could do it many times.. the OP clearly states a 1 time.. so it does not effect all you have listed

I support a redo do for say after the first 10 million sp ?

It allow the newbies to undo the big mistakes they made and won break any sizable chunk of the game

Let's just assume a 1 : 0.5 SP trade ratio.

It removes the point of having skills to begin with.

How exactly? You have to train skills in the first place, before you can change them. And you have to train them afterwards as well.

It removes the point of having attributes.

No it does not. Are you saying one doesn't need to train skills after using this feature? Or before? At a 50% SP refund rate, it will never be optimal to max out 2 attributes to max SP/Hour, and then use the mechanic to trade them in.

Are you also advocating that the neural re-maps removed the points for having attributes?

It removes attribute implants from the game.

See above.

It removes variety and instead encourages FOTM and cookie-cutter setups.

While it will certainly make some skill out of some areas. FOTM and cookie-cutter setups change way to frequently. It might create Flavour of the Game races tho. It is really CCPs problem tho, to make sure all races have something worthwile in all ship classes. Yes, I'm looking at you, cap and supcaps.

It removes the uniqueness, history and "character" of your character.

It does, yes. But those 3 things are all about just the feel of MY character. EVE is an MMO. I should get to decide over my avatar. What other people think about my SP history is not a valid argument for anything.

It removes planning and choice and consequences.

No it does not. It does however lower the consequences a bit. It's not like the real consequences in EVE are SP related tho.

It removes goal-setting, progression and any achievement in those areas.

How exactly?

It kills character trading.

No it does not. People rarely buy chars 2nd hand to replace their main. And if they did, isn't 2nd hand char trading just another way to achieve what we are talking about? If you're really concerned about your other points, you should be advocating to get character trading banned.

It massively boosts older characters over new ones.

Huh? More SP traded in, more SP lost.

It introduces "catching up" as a concept in EVE and instantly makes it impossible to do.

How more so than how it currently is?

How exactly? You have to train skills in the first place, before you can change them. And you have to train them afterwards as well.

No it does not. Are you saying one doesn't need to train skills after using this feature? Or before? At a 50% SP refund rate, it will never be optimal to max out 2 attributes to max SP/Hour, and then use the mechanic to trade them in.

Are you also advocating that the neural re-maps removed the points for having attributes?

While it will certainly make some skill out of some areas. FOTM and cookie-cutter setups change way to frequently. It might create Flavour of the Game races tho. It is really CCPs problem tho, to make sure all races have something worthwile in all ship classes. Yes, I'm looking at you, cap and supcaps.

No it does not. [GǪ]

How exactly?

No it does not. People rarely by chars 2nd hand to replace their main.

Huh? More SP traded in, more SP lost. [GǪ]

How more so than how it currently is?

EVE is about taking personal responsibility for your choices as a player, and then dealing with those choices, good or bad. It's not getting "do overs" for every bad decision that you make. Let's not reward poor choices.

And that last part is the real problem with this idea: it solves an issue that doesn't exist. There is simply no need to remap SP in a game where you can already get all the skills you want.

Every skill is usefull, a wasted skill now is a present to your future self.

You're assuming things that aren't in the proposal, and even with a loss, ...

I support this. Wouldn't mind fixing some of my skills that are not helping in any way.


Vote: Yes Please!

I'd like to chime in, as a fairly new player...

I think it's a great idea, although, you should only be able to change maybe the first 1 or 2 million you trained at the beggining of your life.

I for one, coming into this game with zero knowledge about it, and my only input about how to play came from people (although I'm sure they meant to be helpful) in the n00b channel. Where I was told to go through all the tutorials, you'll get "Ships and Modules!", and skill books, a n00b like me assumed needed to be trained. So there I went, training skills I now know I have no use for. Admittedly, it's not a whole lot of SP, but I think I could find a good home for it.

I'd like to chime in, as a fairly new player...

I think it's a great idea, although, you should only be able to change maybe the first 1 or 2 million you trained at the beggining of your life.

I for one, coming into this game with zero knowledge about it, and my only input about how to play came from people (although I'm sure they meant to be helpful) in the n00b channel. Where I was told to go through all the tutorials, you'll get "Ships and Modules!", and skill books, a n00b like me assumed needed to be trained. So there I went, training skills I now know I have no use for. Admittedly, it's not a whole lot of SP, but I think I could find a good home for it.

You copy/paste reply is purely aimed at a 1:1 trade mechanic, that people could do on a whim, anytime anywhere.

Not that i don't understand it - it's an old topic ( as were attribute remaps and the skill queue before they were introduced, and didn't kill anything ), but using an old copy/paste reply, is not a great way to promote a constructive discussion - since you are replying the same thing, even tho people might have moved on and tried to adjust their ideas.

What about all the people that came before you "with zero knowledge" of the game? Your situation is not new. As for skills you no longer want, did you ever use those skills? Many people train mining skills in the early game to make relatively easy money to start out with. Then they realize that mining is sorta a boring occupation whereas pvp is more dynamic hardly ever the same thing twice.

How do you remap that isk you made mining as a noob? Would you rather the piddly income of level 1, 2, and 3 (as a relatively unskilled noob) missions? No. This was never meant to be an easy game, and if you think you have it hard now, it was so much worse to start out years ago. Accept that the skills you no longer use or want to use were something you wanted and probably used quite a bit at one time. There, is that so terrible?

And if you are still wanting candy, re-read Tippia's post. The candy is a lie. Oh but it's just a one time thing? No it won't be. You'll keep wanting the false candy. All the poeple coming after you will complain that you got the candy and want theirs too. It will never end and the skills will have no meaning and then eve will trully be dead.

Probably because EVE, despite being real, is not real life and as it is only a video game we can bend the rules a little bit.

I don't agree with the concept of Skill Point re-allocation, because I believe EVE should punish players who do not think their way through the game.

But at the same time, comparing a video-game to real life is a failure on too many levels to ignore, Sasha.

God no

this would be :awesome:

make a whole bunch of buddy trials that come with the free plex
instantly spec for int/mem
train cybernetics to 5
+5 implants and train anything at all that have int/mem attributes - really, who cares what skills...
and at 5 or 10m, instant perfect miner, drake or tengu pilot or whatever fotm is selling well on the bazarr.
??? profit

would be easier than the old fashioned way of repeatedly self destructing your pod until you are down the 5 or 10m sp and then petitioning.

i have also heard that you can biomass your char and make another with the same name and get to reallocate your sp. might be bugged so you might need to petition that one too.

this would be :awesome:

make a whole bunch of buddy trials that come with the free plex
instantly spec for int/mem
train cybernetics to 5
+5 implants and train anything at all that have int/mem attributes - really, who cares what skills...
and at 5 or 10m, instant perfect miner, drake or tengu pilot or whatever fotm is selling well on the bazarr.
??? profit

would be easier than the old fashioned way of repeatedly self destructing your pod until you are down the 5 or 10m sp and then petitioning.

i have also heard that you can biomass your char and make another with the same name and get to reallocate your sp. might be bugged so you might need to petition that one too.

Back to this point made, Has me thinking... Since clearly it can be abused in this manner how about a once or twice a year single skill removal for SP return? working On a timer kinda like attribute reallocation.

Summery It hurts no one.

Hey everyone, as we all know, the learning curve in EVE Online is quite steep. This picture sums it up quite nicely : http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3088/2335016192_6003c39c4c_z.jpg?zz=1

I could bet that everyone who still uses their first character as their main character has a LOT of wasted skillpoints. I'd like to propose that CCP Implement a ONE TIME ONLY total skillpoint reallocation AFTER 5 million or maybe 10 million total skillpoints. This could possibly be ever one time per account should it become a problem. Or even time based, such as having to hold the character on your account for a year or more before AND have the skillpoint requirement before reallocation becomes available.

Let me know what you guys think. Suggestions on refining this are greatly welcome.

To the people who say no to remapping their skill points, those same players should not have the option to remap their Attributes. No to one! No to both.

The best argument against a skill remap ability was that it would ruin the value of sold or traded characters but like I said before that is against the EULA in the first place and if it ruins the value of sold or traded characters then good because that means more money in CCPs pockets to make me a better game, and it gets rid of players that did not put any time into anything at all themselves.

Training time is still training time no matter what I train!