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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2009.01.16 08:35:00 -
[211]
Originally by: Kravick Drasari
Originally by: Fenderson Edited by: Fenderson on 15/01/2009 20:44:24
Originally by: Micheal Dietrich
Originally by: Glarion Garnier The place where I live at we are allowed to own guns. And we actually (as a pupulation have alot of them, but there is very litle related problems). But my point is that if a burglar comes chopping thru my door with an axe, the only thing I'm allowed to do is to say to him to sit down while i call the cops. should the guy use the axe on me and get sentenced for it (man slaughter) he would get about 5-8 years in prison.
while you get the death sentence. Pretty sweet deal eh.
In my state we used to have an "escalation of force" law which basically says that you have to defend yourself with a similar level of force to what your attacker is using. for example, you can pull a gun on someone else with a gun, but if they have a knife and you draw a gun, you could be charged with manslaughter.
the laws are different now, basically going with what's known as the "castle doctrine" which states that if you are in your home and someone comes in with bad intent, you can use whatever force you want.
Wouldn't happen to be Ohio would it? Ohio JUST did this in December and had the exact same laws before the change.
that is ****ed up, I wouldn't want to get into knife to knife combat, if I had a gun on me. far more dangerous than pulling the gun.
well it has to do something with the situation, and the range. |
Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2009.01.16 08:59:00 -
[212]
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton
that is ****ed up, I wouldn't want to get into knife to knife combat, if I had a gun on me. far more dangerous than pulling the gun.
well it has to do something with the situation, and the range.
In AZ (and rightly so) if someone is holding a knife and they're within 21 feet of you, it's the equivalent of a firearm, and you can reply with a firearm.
If anyone wants a good hard look at the results of knife fights, just google some pics. They're around if you want to find them. I consider a good blade to be just as deadly as a firearm when it's up close. I know mine is.
Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Death of Virtue is Recruiting
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.01.16 09:14:00 -
[213]
Originally by: Micheal Dietrich
Maybe you're looking in the wrong places
I don't mean home defence where a few poor junkies break in to steal your VCR.
Your cap ship deserves CPR's! |
Kravick Drasari
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Posted - 2009.01.16 10:03:00 -
[214]
Originally by: Sokratesz
Originally by: Micheal Dietrich
Maybe you're looking in the wrong places
I don't mean home defence where a few poor junkies break in to steal your VCR.
What other home defense is there? |
Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.01.16 10:31:00 -
[215]
We were talking about shooting sprees. |
Math'ra Hiede
Amarr Quality Assurance Inc.
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Posted - 2009.01.16 12:03:00 -
[216]
Originally by: Vabjekf
Originally by: Sokratesz
Originally by: Math'ra Hiede ..
Disturbing.
But I wonder what one man with a handgun could have done against a trained person with an assault rifle, considering it all took place very very quick indoors and as soon as he went outdoors thus increasing range to his targets, a pistol would've been useless against him.
i don't know according to video games on the internet a pistol is more accurate at range than an assault rifle.
Sad truth.
tbh though - the whole situtation was rather sad and shocking, although with the new anti-gun laws there have been no mass killings, just the few armed robberies (which never work out well for the offenders).
but for alot of the regional farmers we have outside of the major cities you need firearms to deal with local pests like foxes and rabbits (which are a very large problem in some areas) Inner city, im glad there are no guns anywhere, far too many situations where things could go bad very quickly, thinking mainly of gangs and such lowlifes.
as for the majojr debate between whether you should or should have and what could or couldn't have been. Too complicated for me right now. not enough sleep.
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Vabjekf
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Posted - 2009.01.16 15:09:00 -
[217]
it would have to be a pretty newb 'gang' to be unable to obtain firearms just because they are illegal.
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Micheal Dietrich
Caldari Terradyne Networks Terradyne Networks Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.16 18:29:00 -
[218]
Originally by: Sokratesz
Originally by: Micheal Dietrich
Maybe you're looking in the wrong places
I don't mean home defence where a few poor junkies break in to steal your VCR.
Glad to see that you didn't even bother reading half of those like a true anti-gun who wants to stick to your flawed laws and fantasy belief that someone can wave a wand and make all guns disappear.
Here's another video for you to watch, although I'm concerned because I showed it to another poster and they didn't get it, and I had more faith in him understanding than you, so I'm sure I'll get yet another weak rebuttal in this futile argument. But this video shows what happens when somebody follows your rules and guidelines. Just remember, when guns are outlawed only the outlaws will have guns.
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.01.16 18:51:00 -
[219]
Edited by: Sokratesz on 16/01/2009 18:53:58
Originally by: Micheal Dietrich
Here's another video for you to watch, although I'm concerned because I showed it to another poster and they didn't get it, and I had more faith in him understanding than you, so I'm sure I'll get yet another weak rebuttal in this futile argument. But this video shows what happens when somebody follows your rules and guidelines. Just remember, when guns are outlawed only the outlaws will have guns.
Impressive story but that's texas and that's texas outlaws. Someone breaks into my house here they won't have a gun.
And those examples you linked are mostly crooks looking for a quick snatch. Not a determined attacker with proper equipment.
Your cap ship deserves CPR's! |
Vabjekf
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Posted - 2009.01.16 19:05:00 -
[220]
Originally by: Sokratesz
Impressive story but that's texas and that's texas outlaws. Someone breaks into my house here they won't have a gun.
You've only got to be wrong about that one time.
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.01.16 19:10:00 -
[221]
Originally by: Vabjekf
Originally by: Sokratesz
Impressive story but that's texas and that's texas outlaws. Someone breaks into my house here they won't have a gun.
You've only got to be wrong about that one time.
Yeah but this isn't the US.
Your cap ship deserves CPR's! |
Vabjekf
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Posted - 2009.01.16 19:25:00 -
[222]
Edited by: Vabjekf on 16/01/2009 19:26:26
Originally by: Sokratesz
Originally by: Vabjekf
Originally by: Sokratesz
Impressive story but that's texas and that's texas outlaws. Someone breaks into my house here they won't have a gun.
You've only got to be wrong about that one time.
Yeah but this isn't the US.
Whats that have to do with it? Do you honestly think that a gun banning laws will remove all guns in the area the law is in effect? Also 'gun incidents' are not very common here either! The US is a large place however, im sure it has more 'incidents' than most countries because its larger than most countries. I live in a small city, its still kind of a 'big deal' when there is a 'shooting'. Someone gets shot people talk about it for a while.
Gun laws will: 1. Prevent accidental gun deaths 2. Make people be more inventive/hassle a little more if they decide they 'want to kill a bunch of people' (school bombings instead of school shootings, though most school shootings have a fairly low casualty rate because the kids doing the shooting are not very good shots, easier to get a bodycount with a strong explosive)
They will not stop a criminal who wants a gun from having a gun.
In effect a gun law will remove the 'medium threat level' (random gun violence) incidents that can be gun related, while leaving all the 'high threat level' things (someone who knows what they are doing) risks intact. However it will simultaneously remove ever other gun other than those high threat level ones.
I think the chance to defend yourself against a dedicated person wanting to kill you is a fair trade for not removing accidents/random incidents of gun violence. Because how ****ty is it to be totally helpless?
Im not a 'gun person', my father grew up in the countryside and thus having some guns for defense from wild animals/protecting livestock etc was sensible. He moved to the city when he met my mom, took his guns with him. When i was born he sold all his handguns, reasoning having them around where a small child (me) could get them was too dangerous. When i was 7 or 8 he taught me about guns and showed me his rifles. He taught me how to clean them first. Then he gave me a bb gun and taught me about gun safety with it, we did a lot of camping and wandering around in the mountains at that time. When i was 10 or so he let me shoot his 'real' gun, and every now and then over the years we would go off and shoot at targets and such with it.
I never felt the desire to 'have' a gun, so i never got one. Untll he died. Then i took his favorite rifle and kept it, and i clean it and maintain it. I have not shot it in over 5 years, nor do i really want to. But im glad i have it.
My mother works for the government, social services. Giving money to people who need it (though since its based on government regulations often times people who dont need it get it and people who do need it just dont meet the requirements, but for the most part im sure it helps somebody). Last year one of her cases got disgruntled and started harassing her. Police said they couldn't do anything unless he made a clear threat. All they could do about him just sitting outside her hours, or randomly ringing the doorbell was to 'file an incident report'.
She was afraid. I figured it was just some guy frustrated for whatever reason not having anything better to do with his time. But i loaded that rifle, and i sat there in the night so she could sleep. I didn't think anything bad would happen, but its better to be safe than sorry. Thats what you do, prepare for the worst, doesn't mean you have to expect it. |
Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.01.16 19:52:00 -
[223]
Originally by: Vabjekf I didn't think anything bad would happen, but its better to be safe than sorry. Thats what you do, prepare for the worst, doesn't mean you have to expect it.
Fully agreed. However firearms here are rare - very rare. I'm 21 and the only times I've seen them was at military shows. Never fired one, never even touched one. I know my uncle has one but he's a detective and keeps it in a locker at the police station.
In 2000, there were 4600 firearm incidents in Holland on a population of 16.5 million. In the US there were 708.733 in that same year, and approximately 265 million inhabitants. That's ten times as much, for comparison.
Your cap ship deserves CPR's! |
Vabjekf
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Posted - 2009.01.16 20:01:00 -
[224]
how many of those incidents where accidents? How many of those incidents were intentional, but could have just as easily been 'incidents' with some alternative kind of weapon? (a good solid rock, for example).
Like i said, gun laws can cut down on some kinds of gun crime, but they are totally ineffective against other kinds of gun crime. I think that if there is going to be gun crime, its more preferable for there to be 'more gun crime but with a way for people to protect themselves from it', than 'less gun crime but if you are unlucky then you are just dead'.
some times i get the feeling that other places think you can walk around in the US and just see guns everywhere. Other than attached to a police officer ive never seen a gun 'in public' in a population center here.
Now yes outside of towns and cities you may see them. But a farmer needs to protect its cows from the various predators that want to eat cows. And there are a few kinds of wild animal that could maul someone to death in the mountains, so it would be silly not to have a gun walking around there.
In that sense a gun is about like a compass and a map, just something you take with you if you are going on an excursion.
I really don't consider it any different. Its just a device us humans have made to help us do things we are not biologically adept at (no sharp claws or pointy teeth) |
Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.01.16 20:11:00 -
[225]
Originally by: Vabjekf how many of those incidents where accidents? How many of those incidents were intentional, but could have just as easily been 'incidents' with some alternative kind of weapon? (a good solid rock, for example).
Don't know but considering the extremely low private possession of firearms I assume the number of incidents among those is very very low. |
Micheal Dietrich
Caldari Terradyne Networks Terradyne Networks Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.16 20:17:00 -
[226]
Originally by: Sokratesz
Impressive story but that's texas and that's texas outlaws. Someone breaks into my house here they won't have a gun.
So now we've reverted from stopping mass killings back to home invasion. I wouldn't expect anything less from you. And you go ahead and keep that wishful thinking that you live in a gunless area. I know England keeps that mentality and yet we still see shooting.
Originally by: Sokratesz And those examples you linked are mostly crooks looking for a quick snatch. Not a determined attacker with proper equipment.
Glad to see you didn't even pay attention to the video. I doubt you even watched it seeing how the 'crook' wasn't looking to steal anything, his only goal was to take as many as he could to hell with him.
You just go on and enjoy having Daddy and the state watch your back, and I'll watch mine. |
Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.01.16 20:19:00 -
[227]
Originally by: Micheal Dietrich
Originally by: Sokratesz
Impressive story but that's texas and that's texas outlaws. Someone breaks into my house here they won't have a gun.
So now we've reverted from stopping mass killings back to home invasion. I wouldn't expect anything less from you. And you go ahead and keep that wishful thinking that you live in a gunless area. I know England keeps that mentality and yet we still see shooting.
Originally by: Sokratesz And those examples you linked are mostly crooks looking for a quick snatch. Not a determined attacker with proper equipment.
Glad to see you didn't even pay attention to the video. I doubt you even watched it seeing how the 'crook' wasn't looking to steal anything, his only goal was to take as many as he could to hell with him.
You just go on and enjoy having Daddy and the state watch your back, and I'll watch mine.
****ing cut it will you. That comment was not directed towards the video but towards that earlier link of gun incidents. |
Micheal Dietrich
Caldari Terradyne Networks Terradyne Networks Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.16 20:24:00 -
[228]
Originally by: Sokratesz
****ing cut it will you. That comment was not directed towards the video but towards that earlier link of gun incidents.
I'll cut it when you pull your head out of your ass and realize that every gun law, all the law enforcement in the world, and statistics go right out the door when fate has you walk in a door on a burglar who actually is armed in that one in a million chance and none of the things above will save you at the moment.
Everybody says it will never happen to me. Well, sometimes it does buddy boy.
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Uncle Smokey
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Posted - 2009.01.16 21:36:00 -
[229]
That the statistics fly out of the window when you are personally beign threatened is two different issues. It is a fact that gun control decreases kill and murder ratios effectively, and only reason for that is another old fact: Most people are too dumb not to be shepherded in this, and many other things.
Even a child should understand that more legal guns means also more burglars and other "crooks" with guns. Especially a child that owns a gun.
But then again, statistics dont matter a **** to me neither, and never do i ask what am i allowed to do or possess, and what not. Babylon is a game and true freedom is the chips. .:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:. \o/ EVERYBODY SAY HELL YEAH! \o/ |
Kryptiq
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Posted - 2009.01.17 00:22:00 -
[230]
Edited by: Kryptiq on 17/01/2009 00:26:43 Edited by: Kryptiq on 17/01/2009 00:23:55 My rifle/pistol
Seems crazy how easy it is for some people to obtain a carry license. In New York it is pretty hard to get one, and nearly impossible to get one for New York City unless you work for the government.
Luckily I haven't had issues getting the carry license or permission to purchase full auto weapons.
EDIT: As for the argument here all I will say that to avoid being put away for a very very long time be reasonable if someone breaks into your home and take out their kneecaps or the hand the intruder is holding a weapon in. I sincerely hope none of you ever have to shoot another human being, criminal or not you will always remember that person.
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.01.17 00:29:00 -
[231]
Originally by: Kryptiq Edited by: Kryptiq on 17/01/2009 00:26:43 Edited by: Kryptiq on 17/01/2009 00:23:55 My rifle/pistol
Seems crazy how easy it is for some people to obtain a carry license. In New York it is pretty hard to get one, and nearly impossible to get one for New York City unless you work for the government.
Luckily I haven't had issues getting the carry license or permission to purchase full auto weapons.
EDIT: As for the argument here all I will say that to avoid being put away for a very very long time be reasonable if someone breaks into your home and take out their kneecaps or the hand the intruder is holding a weapon in. I sincerely hope none of you ever have to shoot another human being, criminal or not you will always remember that person.
You have a p90??
Your cap ship deserves CPR's! |
Kryptiq
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Posted - 2009.01.17 00:35:00 -
[232]
Originally by: Sokratesz
Originally by: Kryptiq Edited by: Kryptiq on 17/01/2009 00:26:43 Edited by: Kryptiq on 17/01/2009 00:23:55 My rifle/pistol
Seems crazy how easy it is for some people to obtain a carry license. In New York it is pretty hard to get one, and nearly impossible to get one for New York City unless you work for the government.
Luckily I haven't had issues getting the carry license or permission to purchase full auto weapons.
EDIT: As for the argument here all I will say that to avoid being put away for a very very long time be reasonable if someone breaks into your home and take out their kneecaps or the hand the intruder is holding a weapon in. I sincerely hope none of you ever have to shoot another human being, criminal or not you will always remember that person.
You have a p90??
No the picture is of my G36C and M9. I have other weapons but these are the 2 I like most. |
Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.01.17 00:43:00 -
[233]
Yes but if I'm not mistaking thats a p90 mag in the left corner. |
Sobach
Gallente Fourth Circle
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Posted - 2009.01.17 00:58:00 -
[234]
Originally by: Kryptiq Edited by: Kryptiq on 17/01/2009 00:26:43 Edited by: Kryptiq on 17/01/2009 00:23:55 My rifle/pistol
EDIT: As for the argument here all I will say that to avoid being put away for a very very long time be reasonable if someone breaks into your home and take out their kneecaps or the hand the intruder is holding a weapon in. I sincerely hope none of you ever have to shoot another human being, criminal or not you will always remember that person.
That really depends on the law of the state you're in, some are more reasonable than others. However, if your opponent is armed, for Christ's sake please don't be aiming for aforementioned kneecap or their hand. Not only will you more than likely miss, even if you do hit neither will prevent them from firing back. People have been shot and killed by those already hit in far worst places than their hands or knees.
I don't know if there are any states out there that have laws that prohibits one from defending his own life inside his home from armed intruders. But if there are, please let me know which one, so I can be sure to never live there :p |
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Minmatar MasterBlasters Inc. CORPVS DELICTI
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Posted - 2009.01.17 01:00:00 -
[235]
Sobach... nowhere in the country does it say you have to retreat in your own home |
Kravick Drasari
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Posted - 2009.01.17 01:42:00 -
[236]
Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny Sobach... nowhere in the country does it say you have to retreat in your own home
This, unfortunately, isn't true. It widely varies by state but there are still states that say if you can run from the situation you have too. They say if you have a back door you have to use it. Only if you are backed into a corner are you allowed to defend yourself. There are even states that say you can't even do that and have to wait for the police to come. Even if hes beating down your bathroom door with an axe. These will be states that don't have castle doctrine law. |
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Minmatar MasterBlasters Inc. CORPVS DELICTI
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Posted - 2009.01.17 01:49:00 -
[237]
Which states are these? I will never go to one |
Kravick Drasari
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Posted - 2009.01.17 01:53:00 -
[238]
Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny Which states are these? I will never go to one
Any that doesn't have castle doctrine law enacted. I'm not going to do the work for you. Just Google search it. |
Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2009.01.17 02:04:00 -
[239]
Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny Which states are these? I will never go to one
What state was Obama senator of? Illinois? |
Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2009.01.17 02:06:00 -
[240]
Originally by: Kryptiq Edited by: Kryptiq on 17/01/2009 00:26:43 Edited by: Kryptiq on 17/01/2009 00:23:55 My rifle/pistol
Seems crazy how easy it is for some people to obtain a carry license. In New York it is pretty hard to get one, and nearly impossible to get one for New York City unless you work for the government.
Luckily I haven't had issues getting the carry license or permission to purchase full auto weapons.
EDIT: As for the argument here all I will say that to avoid being put away for a very very long time be reasonable if someone breaks into your home and take out their kneecaps or the hand the intruder is holding a weapon in. I sincerely hope none of you ever have to shoot another human being, criminal or not you will always remember that person.
What brand suppressor is that? |
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